>Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 05:13:01 +1000 > From: Ron Lankshear <ronlank@yahoo.com.au> > Subject: Re: [LON] Eliza HALE enigma > To: eileen/pat <epfranchi@blueyonder.co.uk> > The 1861 Eliza and the 1881 would appear to be the > same person... > HALE is of course a very USA name from very early > times a lot of HALE in USA.... > I tried to find the family in 1851 census but not > getting anywhere. > > Who are the extra young people in 1871 census - > Julia, Eliza and Robert. Should be in 1861 I'd > assume but are not... > So it is all one of those census messups that is > also being discussed today re ages etc... > Did enumerator mis understand. >Was there a visiting relative and the data got messed up on the transfer from return to report > BUT I'd say find the extra children in earlier times > > Ron Lankshear -Sydney NSW (from London-Shepherds > Bush/Chiswick) > try my links > http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lankshear/ > Hi Ron, very many thanks. Its a bit of a puzzle and I am thinking that perhaps the original Elza died about 1861 becasue I found a marrage Banns in 1861 for William and Eliza and I think that I may have found the answer to the Eliza Enigma. The Banns for Eliza Jones to William were in July 1861 and the marraige in 1864 when he was a widower. So Eliza the 1st would have had to die after the census was taken in 1861 and before the banns in July 1861. So we have to find a death in that time frame for Eliza 1st. Her marriage to William Hale seems to be in 1841 Jan to March Quarter, in Shoreditch and she was either Eliza Mills or Eliza Chilman. There is a death for Eliza Hale in Pancras Jan-March Q. in 1861 which would fit if she died in the March after the census was taken but it would mean getting the certs to make sure. So we have William Matthew marrying Eliza M or C in Shoreditch in 1841. Eliza dies in Mrch 1861 William then has banns read in July 1861 and marries Eliza Jones in 1864 in Lambeth, both of Devonshire Street. They have Alfred in 1863 !! Then Susan in 1865 and Elizabeth in 1869 when she is apparently 58. Still not sure where the America comes in. or the info on the 1881. On the criminal list there is an Eliza Jones about the same age, repeatedly charged with larceny in and around the area!!. Cant find her on the incoming passenger lists as they are all too late. So perhaps she was trying to hide her identity and reverted to the details of the original Eliza. Perhaps William was so anxious to find a mother for his original children that he gathered Eliza Jones off the streets of London and she was so grateful to him that she pretended to be the original Eliza for his and the childrens sake. Lovely story for some writer to write about. Anyway I think I shall lay that one to rest as its off my Beadon tree now, I got side tracked with curiosity. Many thanks anyway. Eileen.