On checking 1939 the Pullin link is a red herring as Violet D Pullin (later Lucas) is living with John W Pullin and her dob was 16 Aug 1911. Sorry. Pauline > On 3 Mar 2017, at 12:35 pm, Pauline Newell <[email protected]> wrote: > > A John William Pullin married Elizabeth Smith in Greenwich in 1892. In 1911 a Jane Smith is with them as “mother” but probably mother-in-law. So perhaps Violet was registered by her aunt and uncle. > > Regards, > Pauline >> On 3 Mar 2017, at 11:16 am, Jon OFHS5790 <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Just as an additional thought to the Pullin birth, I just looked up Ann Newman's children's birth registrations, John and Edith were both registered in the Greenwich RD as well...? >> >> Jon >> >> For Information on this list, or to unsubscribe go to http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/ENG/LONDON.html >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > For Information on this list, or to unsubscribe go to http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/ENG/LONDON.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A John William Pullin married Elizabeth Smith in Greenwich in 1892. In 1911 a Jane Smith is with them as “mother” but probably mother-in-law. So perhaps Violet was registered by her aunt and uncle. Regards, Pauline > On 3 Mar 2017, at 11:16 am, Jon OFHS5790 <[email protected]> wrote: > > Just as an additional thought to the Pullin birth, I just looked up Ann Newman's children's birth registrations, John and Edith were both registered in the Greenwich RD as well...? > > Jon > > For Information on this list, or to unsubscribe go to http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/ENG/LONDON.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

PS The most likely death reg for Thomas Name: Thomas Cornell Estimated birth year: abt 1827 Registration Year: 1871 Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar Age at Death: 44 Registration district: Bethnal Green Volume: 1c Page: 182 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 03-Mar-17 10:17 AM, Nivard Ovington wrote: > Hi Jenny > > It does look like Thomas Edward was the first child in 1854 > > In 1861 they are in Shoreditch > > Thomas is 34 a shoe maker born Stratford Essex > Ann is 32 born St Pancras Middlesex > Thomas E 7 born Bethnal Green Middlesex > Henry J 4 born Shoreditch Middlesex > James age 1 also born Shoreditch Middlesex

Hi Jenny It does look like Thomas Edward was the first child in 1854 In 1861 they are in Shoreditch Thomas is 34 a shoe maker born Stratford Essex Ann is 32 born St Pancras Middlesex Thomas E 7 born Bethnal Green Middlesex Henry J 4 born Shoreditch Middlesex James age 1 also born Shoreditch Middlesex The births of Henry, James and Ann Martha are below easily found now on the new GRO index (on the GRO site where you order certs) which has the mothers maiden name where captured CORNELL, HENRY JOHN ELMES GRO Reference: 1857 J Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 204 CORNELL, JAMES ELMES GRO Reference: 1859 D Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 134 CORNELL, ANN MARTHA ELMES GRO Reference: 1868 J Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN Volume 01C Page 233 I did not find a marriage for a CORNELL to ELMES but remember the name on births is the maiden name, she may have been previously married so would marry under her previous married name rather than her maiden name By 1871 Ann is a widow in Bethnal Green living with her are George REED? 17 brother in law, Thomas, Henry, Kames, Alfred & Martha A Any of the childrens birth certs should tell you if she was married before or if they were believed to be married at the time Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 03-Mar-17 8:41 AM, jenny lang wrote: > Hi there > Need some help with a long standing brick wall. > Thomas CORNELL born c1829 London area married (or did they) Ann ELMES born c1831 London.First know child is Thomas Edward born Feb 1854 Bethnal Green next came Henry John 1857, James c1860,Alfred 1862, Caroline born 1866 died 1866 & Martha A (Ann Martha) born c1868.Haven't found James nor Martha births as yet.Grateful for any help. > Cheers Jenny

Hi there Need some help with a long standing brick wall. Thomas CORNELL born c1829 London area married (or did they) Ann ELMES born c1831 London.First know child is Thomas Edward born Feb 1854 Bethnal Green next came Henry John 1857, James c1860,Alfred 1862, Caroline born 1866 died 1866 & Martha A (Ann Martha) born c1868.Haven't found James nor Martha births as yet.Grateful for any help. Cheers Jenny Jenny LangMellons BayHowick, Auckland, New Zealand//(*_*)\\

W S Can this be the one you are looking for? from the GRO website: SMITH, VIOLET DOROTHY (mother's maiden name) NEWMAN GRO Reference: 1911 M Quarter in ST GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 410 Alison :-) Sydney Australia ================================================================== On 03-March-2017 8:18 AM, W S wrote: > I am looking for the birth entry for > Violet Dorothy NEWMAN > supposedly born 7th October 1911. > > This is according to the death entry shown on Ancestry which says that she died in 1996 aged 84 in Southwark.. > Her mother was Ann Malinda Smith but I cannot find an entry on FreeBMD etc. > > Ann M. Smith is married to John Newman from April 1901 until she re-marries because of his death. > Her second marriage is to John Thomas Ranford on 25th Nov. 1914. > > <snip>

Have you also noticed this regarding Edith Alice Newman? Edith Alice Newman Age 0 Died Jul-Sept 1905 Greenwich, London vol. 1D p. 521 Jon

Also, going by the baptism record of Edith Alice, her father was John James Newman, so this would appear to be his death registration you were mentioning: John James Newman Age 29 Oct-Dec 1910 SOUTHWARK Vol. 1D P. 27 Jon

Just as an additional thought to the Pullin birth, I just looked up Ann Newman's children's birth registrations, John and Edith were both registered in the Greenwich RD as well...? Jon

Hi there, I don't want to put the cat amongst the pigeons here, but according to the 1939 Register, her birth date was indeed 7th Oct 1911. Her mother is recorded as Ann M Ranford born 11 Jul 1875, and she is widowed. Also in this household at 13 Cluny Place , Bermondsey, London are John R C Newman born 23 Jan 1902 and Charles T Ranford born 09 Oct 1914. A few things to think on... Note the date of birth above of Charles Ranford was before Ann's marriage to John Thomas Ranford on 25th November that year. Here is his birth index: Charles T Ranford Oct-Dec 1914 St Olave vol.1D p. 273 MMN: Smith If Violet was born a year earlier, as the Jan-Mar birth registration suggests, then where is she in the 1911 Census which was taken on 2nd April of that year? Going by her DoB on the 1939R and her death index, her mum was 3 months pregnant with her at the time of the 1911 Census. If you are sure her husband died in the Oct-Dec quarter of 1910, then it would appear that he isn't Violet's father. So if he isn't, who is, and what surname was her birth registered under? Have you considered this birth: Violet D Pullin Oct-Dec 1911 Greenwich, London vol. 1D p. 1889 MMN Smith The GRO website has her 2nd forename as Doris rather than Dorothy, but that's not to say it is or isn't her, just something to think about, it is relatively nearby and is in the correct quarter and year for a 7th October 1911 birth.. I don't know why but I'm having dreadful problems locating Ann and the children in the 1911 census, could you possibly give me the Census reference please, just so that I can get a better picture of what was what in that Census? Cheers, all the best for now, Jon

From the new GRO indexes which have mothers maiden name where captured SMITH, VIOLET DOROTHY NEWMAN GRO Reference: 1911 M Quarter in ST GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 410 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 02-Mar-17 10:55 PM, W S wrote: > Tis the best match yet, so many thanks to Alison and John > > I take it that is the March Quarter 1911. > > Finally got it up on FreeBMD > > > Births Mar 1911 > > Smith Violet D St.Geo.H.Sq. 1a 410 > > Of course it doesnt show the mother's maiden name because it is before > Sept Q. 1911. > Just wonder where the 7th Oct. 1911 comes from. > > Very grateful for all your help folks. > My friend will only find out for sure when they go for the full > certificate..... > > WS

Tis the best match yet, so many thanks to Alison and John I take it that is the March Quarter 1911. Finally got it up on FreeBMD Births Mar 1911 Smith Violet D St.Geo.H.Sq. 1a 410 Of course it doesnt show the mother's maiden name because it is before Sept Q. 1911. Just wonder where the 7th Oct. 1911 comes from. Very grateful for all your help folks. My friend will only find out for sure when they go for the full certificate..... WS --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 02/03/2017 9:18 PM, W S wrote: > I am looking for the birth entry for > Violet Dorothy NEWMAN > supposedly born 7th October 1911. > This is according to the death entry shown on Ancestry which says that she died in 1996 aged 84 in Southwark.. > Her mother was Ann Malinda Smith but I cannot find an entry on FreeBMD etc. > Ann M. Smith is married to John Newman from April 1901 until she re-marries because of his death. > Her second marriage is to John Thomas Ranford on 25th Nov. 1914. > Therefore I have searched for > Violet D. Newman > Violet D. Smith > Violet D. Ranford > from 1909 until 1914 everywhere. > Have also searched for Dorothy Violet under those surnames. > Nothing comes up for the Dec. Q. of 1911 > Ann Malinda marries in Rotherhithe and Bermondsey > In the Census of 1911 Ann and two daughters are living in Horsleydown. > Violet comes along just after if the date given on her death entry is correct. > I believe John Newman dies at only age 29 in the December Q. of 1910. > Any help in finding the entry would be appreciated as the family want to get a copy of the certificate as any copies were evidently lost during the last war when their house was bombed. > WS To add to Alison's discovery: This couple had two children baptized at St.Luke's, Deptford John Reuben Charles Newman 12 Feb 1902 Deptford St Luke Lewisham John Newman, Ann Milinda Newman and Edith Alice Newman 20 Aug 1905 Deptford St Luke Lewisham John James Newman, Ann Milanda Newman Unfortunately, Ancestry's baptism registers stop at 1906, but you could try LMA if you are near enough to visit. Regards, John Henley

I am looking for the birth entry for Violet Dorothy NEWMAN supposedly born 7th October 1911. This is according to the death entry shown on Ancestry which says that she died in 1996 aged 84 in Southwark.. Her mother was Ann Malinda Smith but I cannot find an entry on FreeBMD etc. Ann M. Smith is married to John Newman from April 1901 until she re-marries because of his death. Her second marriage is to John Thomas Ranford on 25th Nov. 1914. Therefore I have searched for Violet D. Newman Violet D. Smith Violet D. Ranford from 1909 until 1914 everywhere. Have also searched for Dorothy Violet under those surnames. Nothing comes up for the Dec. Q. of 1911 Ann Malinda marries in Rotherhithe and Bermondsey In the Census of 1911 Ann and two daughters are living in Horsleydown. Violet comes along just after if the date given on her death entry is correct. I believe John Newman dies at only age 29 in the December Q. of 1910. Any help in finding the entry would be appreciated as the family want to get a copy of the certificate as any copies were evidently lost during the last war when their house was bombed. WS --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

> > Hi All, > > My g-grandfather William Frederic Plumley was Baptised 6th October 1817 at St. Martins in the Field Westminster. His parents are John Plumley and Diana. and John’s occupation is White Smith. > > I have a marriage for John Plumbley and Diana Cooper at St. Annes, Soho 1792 > > William Frederic married Ellen Hall 6th Dec 1860 and William’s father is John Plumley occupation Smith. They had 11. children between 1854 and 1875. Sadly only 4 survived infancy. > > I have been unable to find the parents of John Plumbley/ Plumley or where or when he was born. Nor have I been able to find a death for either John or Diana. It doesn’t say on William Frederic’s marriage cert that his father is deceased. > > I am hoping that someone has this family in their tree and is able to help me with John and Diana. > > Regards > > Liz Maxwell >

Trying tp see if this message goes to the list zOk

The entry on Wikipedia for Westminster St James, has a map that shows St Martin in the Fields on the southern boundary of St James. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_St_James#/media/File:Westminster_Civil_Parish_Map_1870.png On 15 February 2017 at 11:54, Eileen Chapman <[email protected]> wrote: > Good afternoon > > I am hoping someone on the list that can help me, > > Is St Martin in the Fields in the same area as St James Westminster? > > (1838 year) > > Many thanks > > Eileen > > New Zealand > For Information on this list, or to unsubscribe go to > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/ENG/LONDON.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Good afternoon I am hoping someone on the list that can help me, Is St Martin in the Fields in the same area as St James Westminster? (1838 year) Many thanks Eileen New Zealand

If anyone has some spare time could they look at this conundrum please. I have been going round in circles with it. In 1901 and 1911 census records I have Samuel Rice born c 1862 Barton Herefordshire, with Constance Beatrice Newman [born 1876 and 1873]. I have found a marriage record showing Constance's sister, Louisa Ruth Newman age 23 [therefore yob of 1970 which is consistant with 1881 census], marrying Samuel John Rice in St Pauls, Bow Common on 9/7/1893. This date tying in with the 18 years Samuel and Constance claim to have been married on the 1911 census. But I have not been able to find a marriage record between Samuel and Constance who would have been just 17 in 1893. I have however, found another marriage record for Louisa Ruth Newman this time aged 26 which is consistent with Constance's yob of 1876, on 4/1/1904 at St John Jerusalem, Hackney, to Edward James Nash. I have also found both of them in the 1911 census at 158 Tredegar Road. I have not however been able to pinpoint either of Louisa Newman/Nash or Edward Nash in the 1901 census to see if I can glean anything that make more sense of this. Have I missed something? Is there anything else I should look for? or has a poor woman's divorce or something similar taken place. Look forward to hearing from someone with a hopefully an explanation :-) Berry

I have started a hunt once again for David Victor Nicoll who was born 16th December 1885 Reg district Lewisham , parents were David John Nicoll and Elizabeth Mary Maslen . David Snr the father was an anarchist and died 1919 Elizabeth the mother died early 1891 . I have the family on the 1891 census living 26 Dalmeny Road , David Victor is 6 , Jane listed as a Nicoll is not in fact she is a Maslen and is Elizabeths mother so David Snrs Mother in law and David Victors Grandmother , the 2 other family members are Janes children , I can find no evidence at all that Jane and David were married . On the 1901 census Jane is back as a Maselin ! living with her son George Bethnal Green . I think I have David Victor 1892 at Great College Street School he is listed then as Victor Nicholls ??? but not 100% . Then nothing on David Victor , his father died in the Pancras workhouse and is buried St Pancras Cemetery . Would love to know what happened to little David , I have a feeling because his father was an anarchist he was shipped off to America or elsewhere but can find no trace . Many thanks for any help