On 21 October 2011 21:52, Lynda Rooke <lyndarooke123@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: How reliable are the family connections? Are there no second family children's names to follow in the 1901 or 1911 census? Barry > > By 1901 George and Maria have separated and Maria is now > living with William Weekes. I can follow Maria and the three children both through > marriages and through the 1911 census, but I cannot track down George Hallett. > > Through family connections I know that George stayed in the > same area and actually had a second family. However it is not known if he > actually remarried or whether he simply moved in with someone else and they > lived as man and wife. > > I cannot find George before his marriage living with a > father George who was a miller . Nor can I find George after his split with his > wife Maria. Not having a specific place of birth just adds to the problem.  I am aware that there are Hallett families in > Somerset but none seem to fit in with the family I am looking for. > > Any suggestions would be most gratefully received. > > Lynda>. >> >> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html .  Check for matching interests and add your own ! >> ~~~~~~

In response to Lin's reference to High brick walls I am posting my research details concerning George Hallett born around 1865 in the hope that someone can point me in the right direction as to where to look next. George Hallett married Maria Bradley in St James’ Church Edmonton Middlesex on 10th February 1889. At that time, George was shown as a batchelor aged 24 and his occupation was shown as a butcher. His father, also named George, was deceased but his occupation was shown as a miller. Both bride and groom are shown as living in Trafalgar Place. On the 1891 census George and Maria are living in Dorset Terrace in Peckham, together with their eldest child George who was born in 1889. George’s occupation is still shown as a butcher , but unfortunately the family’s place of birth is just shown simply as England. George and Maria had 3 children. I cannot find a baptism for their eldest child George who was born around 1889/1890 but I have found the birth record on freeBMD, Wandsworth vol 1d pg 535. Their second son Henry (baptised as Harry) was baptised 12 October 1892 in Christ Church, Camberwell. At that time, George’s occupation was listed as Horse keeper and the family are living at 4 Upper Hall. Their third son William was baptised 24 September 1894 in St Peter’s Church, Walworth. This time George’s occupation is listed as Carman and the family are living in Trafalgar Street. By 1901 George and Maria have separated and Maria is now living with William Weekes. I can follow Maria and the three children both through marriages and through the 1911 census, but I cannot track down George Hallett. Through family connections I know that George stayed in the same area and actually had a second family. However it is not known if he actually remarried or whether he simply moved in with someone else and they lived as man and wife. I cannot find George before his marriage living with a father George who was a miller . Nor can I find George after his split with his wife Maria. Not having a specific place of birth just adds to the problem. I am aware that there are Hallett families in Somerset but none seem to fit in with the family I am looking for. Any suggestions would be most gratefully received. Lynda>. > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It's a while since I have seen or read about the possibility of catholic baptism and burial records for the London area going online somewhere. Can anyone advise if this is likely and if so where and when please, I think I read that they may be added to the London PR's at Ancestry. But then again this may have been wishful thinking on my part. I am also waiting not so patiently, for the Westminster records to be added to Ancestry, does anyone have an update for these records please? Many thaks for your help. Carolyn in NZ

>From time to time we have 'quiet times', on the list, and it's always nice when someone has a particularly difficult 'brick wall' that we can help knock down. I thought, maybe, in this quiet period, we might be able to do that now, knock down a few of those walls. We have some great people on the list, full of knowledge, and they have been willing helpers so many times. Do you have a 'brick wall'. Something about someone you have wanted to find, but haven't' , and it drives you mad, not knowing? If so, let us hear about it! Please remember to keep it London and surrounds focused and mark your posting 'Brick Wall-Surname', replacing 'Surname' with your own particular name. I am fighting with tremendous amounts of spam to the admin address right now, so it would be particularly nice to see some interesting postings. Don't be shy, let us try and help :) Regards Lin List Admin London

What newspapers were in print for the city of London during the above time period? I'm looking specifically for an article/s regarding a William Innes, of West Port, Dundee, prisoner received from Edinburgh on March, 23, 1822 aboard the Bellephon; he was discharged to the Retribution on April 14, 1823, and pardoned November 4, 1825. These Bellephon and Retribution were two prison hulks, moored at Woolwich, which appears to be near London. (REF: U.K. Prison Hulk Registers and Letter Books.) This man was one of my ancestors and was tried in Perth in January 1822 for utterance, sentenced to 7 years transportation. I've ordered the court records from Edinburgh, but would like to see how I might find out what happened to him after his release. I doubt he would have had money, and may have had to work before going back to Dundee. (If, he in fact did go back to Dundee; that is not clear .... I don't really know what happened to him, so am looking for any clues. Thank you! Marilyn DC

MARIA MAILE/MALE born ~1842 in Surrey (Probably Bermondsey). According to her wedding certificate, her father is William Mail, carpenter. She married William Miles on April 12, 1863, Newington, Surrey.

I am still looking for my family in 1841 or a marriage record or anything more about this family. I have looked and looked and can't seem to find them. I have found their christening records, I have found Elizabeth Gardner's will. I know all about their siblings and all of their lives but this family which is my direct line, I can't find anything about before 1851. Henry Gardner (1789) born in Painswick to Samuel Gardner and Mary Knight. Elizabeth Bradley (1805) born in St. Leonard's Shoreditch to William Bradley and Ann Bellings Never found a marriage record for Henry and Elizabeth anywhere. They had two sons: Henry George Gardner (1832) - christened in St. Leonard's Shoreditch Charles William Gardner (1834) - christened in St. Leonard's, Shoreditch According to the christening records in 1834 & 1843, they were living in Shoreditch. and according to the christening record of Charles William Gardner and Henry George Gardner , their father, Henry (1789) always put down his occupation of Gentleman. I found them in 1851 census in London and his occupation was military pensioner, then they came to the USA until Henry (1789) died in 1870 in New York. Then Elizabeth went back to London until her death in 1891. Henry George Gardner (1832) didn't come with them in 1851. He came in 1852 according to the 1855 USA census and I haven't found his passenger record of him coming to the USA, but he isn't mentioned on Elizabeth's will in 1891 and I never found another thing on if he died, where or if he married and stayed in the USA or went back to England. Charles was a prominent man and he always stated that he was born in Channel Islands and went to school in London and France but I have never found anything on him to back this up. He was born in 1834 but wasn't christened until 1843 in London. In 1851, he was living in London before he came to the USA. He died in 1903 in Washington State, USA Can SKS please take a look to see if they could find this family for me in 1841. I have all the parents information and grandparents and I can't seem to find this family. Henry's brother was in the Navy and received a telescope while he was a midshipman and Henry is listed on his will in 1823. Henry's sisters married Army men. Henry's mother, Mary (Knight) Gardner was listed on a friend's family will in 1822 along with her son, James, daughters, Maria and Sophia. So Henry's father, Samuel died sometime between 1800 and 1822 but I haven't found a death record anywhere for Mary or Samuel. Elizabeth (Bradley) Gardner died in 1891 and is buried in Abney Park. Elizabeth's father was a watchmaker, Samuel Gardner was a clothmaker, Henry was a gentleman maybe military but can't seem to find anything. This has been my brick wall. Maybe I am trying to hard to find something to verify all the loose ends. Any help would be appreciated. Wendy

Hi Carolyn I wouldn't hold your breath! What Ancestry are able to digitise and add to their collections depends on negotiations with the "owners" of the records. The London PRs are the registers held by the London Metropolitan Archives and the Guildhall Library in their capacity as the diocesan record offices for the relevant areas. Their decision to go into partnership with Ancestry is partly due to a desire to ensure greater access to their holdings and partly commercial (as it provides important income to allow them to continue their vital work in times of budgetary constraint). Other record offices follow a different path - Essex is a good example, as it has chosen to institute its own on-line PR service via SEAX (thereby deriving income directly). But whilst CofE records are, in a sense, public ones (as the Church of England is the established church), Catholic ones are "private" and belong wholly to the Catholic church, who have no duty to deposit them in record offices, or to make them available in any other way. So Catholic records are all over the place and often very hard to access. Whether or not Ancestry will ever choose to enter into negotiations with the very large number of authorities which "own" them, let alone whether those negotiations might bear fruit is anyone's guess. Like I said, don't hold your breath! As to Westminster, the PRs for those parishes within the old City of Westminster (as opposed to the modern London Borough) are held by the City of Westminster Archive Centre. I have no idea whether Ancestry have approached them and, if so, what the current state of negotiations is. Whatever the answer, in the absence of any news I think it's another case of don't hold your breath. Hope this helps Caroline > It's a while since I have seen or read about the possibility of > catholic baptism and burial records for the London area going online > somewhere. > Can anyone advise if this is likely and if so where and when please, > I think I read that they may be added to the London PR's at Ancestry. > But then again this may have been wishful thinking on my part. > > I am also waiting not so patiently, for the Westminster records to be > added to Ancestry, does anyone have an update for these records > please? > > Many thaks for your help. > Carolyn in NZ >

I.ve just found a article in the Time Dec 10, 1904 summary of article :- Seaman’s church at Victoria Docks, Custom House, the church is attached to the mission-hall at Custom House Dedicated 1904 At the east end is a painting of "Christ in the Sea of Galileerescuing St Peter" by Leonard Augustus Pownall It was given to the church in memory of Admiral George Jphnson and his daughter Ethel May Johnson   Does the church still exist? If so can somekind person take a photo of the church and painting   Thankyou Helen West Australia

Dear Bob, You might find the following helpful http://www.historybytheyard.co.uk/family_history.htm Anne On 20 Oct 2011, at 14:31, Bob Stephenson wrote: > Good morning everyone, i have my g.g.grandfather in the 1861 census at the age of 21 born Suffolk, Somersham and living at the police station in Merton occ. a police constable. Robert STEPHENSON married my g.g.grandmother April 25, 1861 at the parish church in Merton. Robert and Hannah nee CHOATT had two children before Hannah died of phthsis (T.B) in 1867. Robert remarried in 1869 and emmigrated to Canada in 1871. What i would like to find out is more about his time as a police constable in Merton. I would also like to look at his application for being a police constable as well as his discharge papers. Is the Metropoliton Police Ass.a good place to start. If so, is there any contact information available? Thankyou for the help. > > Bob

Good morning everyone, i have my g.g.grandfather in the 1861 census at the age of 21 born Suffolk, Somersham and living at the police station in Merton occ. a police constable. Robert STEPHENSON married my g.g.grandmother April 25, 1861 at the parish church in Merton. Robert and Hannah nee CHOATT had two children before Hannah died of phthsis (T.B) in 1867. Robert remarried in 1869 and emmigrated to Canada in 1871. What i would like to find out is more about his time as a police constable in Merton. I would also like to look at his application for being a police constable as well as his discharge papers. Is the Metropoliton Police Ass.a good place to start. If so, is there any contact information available? Thankyou for the help. Bob

Hi Julie You say you found *the* record on the National Archives but a quick search finds at least *11* on the NA for James GLEESON All are for older soldiers than would still be serving in 1901 The records vary from medal cards to services and more so we need to know what you found Do you know the year of birth, place of birth, parents etc And copy and paste the detail you found on the national archives so we know what you found Perhaps then we can find more and advise better In general soldiers records are pot luck regarding some details Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >I wonder if anyone knows what kind of information the records hold. > I came across name that I think might be an ancestor, James Gleeson from > ireland. I cannot find on the 1901 or 1911 census,living with his wife, > so he might be in the army already. > > I have found the record on Nat archives site but have to pay, before I > do I was wondering if it would have any reference to his wife. > On the war graves commission the grave is in Kirkee in India and names > his parents, but not mentioning his wife. the fathers name James > Gleeson, is right but i don't know his mothers name.I want to make sure > I have the right person first. > > Any help > thanks > Julie

I wonder if anyone knows what kind of information the records hold. I came across name that I think might be an ancestor, James Gleeson from ireland. I cannot find on the 1901 or 1911 census,living with his wife, so he might be in the army already. I have found the record on Nat archives site but have to pay, before I do I was wondering if it would have any reference to his wife. On the war graves commission the grave is in Kirkee in India and names his parents, but not mentioning his wife. the fathers name James Gleeson, is right but i don't know his mothers name.I want to make sure I have the right person first. Any help thanks Julie

Thanks John, for your interest and advice. Still searching...........! Australian death certs. are very helpful in that they name the undertaker and place of burial - also names of children. Sooooo helpful. Best wishes, Judy......Perth W.Australia >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:53:24 +0100 > From: "JFHH" <johnfhhgen@uwclub.net> > Subject: Re: [LON] Emily Selena WILSON > To: "Judith Acaster" <jude.a@iinet.net.au>, <london@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <31C20C29450E4A66B266F2D6314738A9@youra97ec67e86> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; > reply-type=original > > Judith, > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judith Acaster" <jude.a@iinet.net.au > > >> I am cursing though, because I don't anticipate that I shall see my >> elusive g.grandmother's name appearing. >> Although..........she died in Stockwell and has not turned up in any >> plots near there, so.........you just never know. >> We always live in hope!> > Cheers!......Perth W.Australia > > Have you tried Brookwood? Used for several inner London parishes/ > boroughs, with special trains from > Necropolis station, a dedicated station at Waterloo, destroyed by > bombing in WWII. > Stockwell, IIRC part of Lambeth. > You can Google for Brookwood Cemetery (still open) and for London > Borough of Lambeth cemeteries. > > Kind regards, > John Henley > > >

My thanks to all who replied. I now have the information required. Jean

Please could someone look up in census Daniel SYRED 1809 Portsmouth/Portsea living in Fortis Green Middlesex. In 1881 he is a widower of 71 with no occupation - 1881 Ancestry index [no credits left] and he is my last link with my Hannah Harriet Goose being granted right of burial for her in 1873. I wonder if he was an undertaker as not mentioned in her will Many thanks Jean

Think this may be him, Helen Name: George T Leade Age: 19 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852 Relation: Servant Gender: Male Where born: Aston Upthorp, Berkshire, England Civil parish: St Andrew Hubbard Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew Hubbard County/Island: London Country: England Registration district: London City Sub-registration district: Allhallows Barking ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Household schedule number: 161 Piece: 433 Folio: 20 Page Number: 36 Household Members: Name Age John F Verry 38 Mary Cheslsey 66 Caroline Paterson 32 Tom G Gowland 19 George T Leade 19 Alfred Austin 24 Walter R Sant 25 Alice Witts 25 John Ashplant 22 Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 433; Folio: 20; Page: 36 Occupation: Commercial Clerk ( John Verry is a master hairdresser) Address 20 & 21 East Cheap. HTH Anne On 14 Oct 2011, at 18:04, Helen Carter wrote: > Need help with 1871 Census looking for > George Frederick SLADE > born 1851 Aston Upthorpe Berkshire, unmarried in 1871 > He is said to have spent some time in Londonbefore, moving to Sussex, then back to Berkshire > Found earlier in Berkshire > In 1881 he is a solicitor at Horsham Sussex, then a solicitor at Wallingford, Berkshire > > Helen > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Helen I suspect a possible enumerators transcript error It looks as its transcribed on the page but there is no similar named person in any other census and the occupation seems to fit 1871 England Census about George T Leade Name: George T Leade Age: 19 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852 Relation: Servant Gender: Male Where born: Aston Upthorp, Berkshire, England Civil parish: St Andrew Hubbard Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew Hubbard County/Island: London Country: England Registration district: London City Sub-registration district: Allhallows Barking ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Household schedule number: 161 Piece: 433 Folio: 20 Page Number: 36 Household Members: Name Age John F Verry 38 Mary Cheslsey 66 Caroline Paterson 32 Tom G Gowland 19 George T Leade 19 commercial clerk Alfred Austin 24 Walter R Sant 25 Alice Witts 25 John Ashplant 22 RG10; Piece: 433; Folio: 20; Page: 36; GSU roll: 824635 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) Need help with 1871 Census looking for George Frederick SLADE born 1851 Aston Upthorpe Berkshire, unmarried in 1871 He is said to have spent some time in Londonbefore, moving to Sussex, then back to Berkshire Found earlier in Berkshire In 1881 he is a solicitor at Horsham Sussex, then a solicitor at Wallingford, Berkshire Helen

Need help with 1871 Census looking for George Frederick SLADE born 1851 Aston Upthorpe Berkshire, unmarried in 1871 He is said to have spent some time in Londonbefore, moving to Sussex, then back to Berkshire Found earlier in Berkshire In 1881 he is a solicitor at Horsham Sussex, then a solicitor at Wallingford, Berkshire   Helen

Thankyou so much Nivard, I have spent hours searching Ancestry and am still amazed at your skill in finding missing items! I have lots to learn still. My fellow researcher has FMP which I gave up in preference to Ancestry so am very pleased. Eileen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nivard Ovington" <ovington1@sky.com> To: "eileen/pat" <epfranchi@blueyonder.co.uk>; > Hi again > > I should have also said the way to find him > > Enter the first names Sidney Alexander and just the keyword Camberwell > > One hit in the census , 1861 > > One reason I prefer Ancestry is you can do an easy search across all data > > I presume you have Ancestry so would suggest you enter a correction for > this family, that way any future researcher will see your contact details > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > >> Can anyone find this family on the 1861 please. They seem to be missing >> on >> Ancestry. We need to see the occupation of John and the address they >> were >> living and I am flumuxed!!! Many thanks Eileen >> We can see him on the index to Find My Past: >> 1861 census person search >> Your search has returned 1 result. >> Search criteria used: >> Last name:Watt First name:John >> Place of residence:Camberwell Occupation:*chem* >