Hello. Having sent in one of my 'brickwalls' and not hearing from anyone, it's made me feel a lot better as I now realise my dear Patience LOVE has vanished into the ether, and her death cert is never to be found. Regards. Barbara. Sent from my iPad.

Valerie, can you tell us James's rank/occupation and place of abode in the 1834 baptism? Presumably, you have an address for George in 1876-7? What information are you looking for? (I have some ideas but their validity may depend on your answers!). Best wishes, John Townsend Antiquarian Bookseller/Genealogist http://www.johntownsend.demon.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valerie Bayliss" <v.bayliss@btinternet.com> To: <LONDON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 3:08 PM Subject: [LON] Brick Wall - GEORGE ROBSON WAGNER >I have been struggling with this individual for ages. He was a nephew of my >4xgt-grandfather; his parents were James Wagner and his wife Louisa, nee >Robson. George was baptised in Feb 1834 at St Saviour, Southwark [with his >sister]. I have him in the 1841 census, boarding at a school in Lambeth. > > After that, he seems to have disappeared: > > 1 He is not the George Wagner who married Letitia Saffery in 1849 [our > George would only have been 15 at the time, and the family details are > wrong]. > 2 The George Wagner, potman, in Bermondsey in the 1851C is almost 10 years > too young, which even by standards of the time makes it unlikely this was > my man - though it can't perhaps be ruled out. > 3 There is a bankruptcy petition in the London Gazette in 1855-6 and a > record of conviction for larceny and housebreaking in 1887, both for a > George Wagner, but nothing to tell me if it was George Robson Wagner. > 4 There is a possible death in FBMD in 1890; George Wagner, aged 63 - > about right - in Fulham. > > And that's it, except that in 1876-7 he [with his younger brother Henry > Robson Wagner, who I have traced] was a co-plaintiff in a family legal > action with my 3xgt-grandfather, his first cousin, for which I have a copy > of part of an affidavit which gives their full names. > I have traced his family in successive cenuses after 1841 and George is > not with them. > > So I'm at a standstill! Any ideas, please? Help very gratefully received! > from > Valerie in sunny Sheffield UK

Good afternoon Listers, I am hoping SKS can help me regarding the marriages of the two sons of John Tawell, the man who was hung in Aylesbury for the murder of his Mistress Sarah Hart aka Lawrence. I believe both marriages would have taken place in London, who before the Free BMD records on the Website. "...John Tawell (1784-1845) was a British murderer. In 1845, he became the first person to be arrested as the result of telecommunications technology. Transported to Australia in 1815 for the crime of forgery, Tawell obtained a ticket of leave, and started as a chemist in Sydney. He also in 1823 arranged for and paid for his wife Mary and two sons John and William to join him in Sydney Town. John running his Chemist and Drug store flourished, and after fifteen years left it a rich man. John returning to England, he married a Quaker lady Widow Sarah Calford as his second wife in 1841, after his wife Mary died in England in 1838. John Snr.and Sarah TAWELL (Calford) had one son Henry Augustus TAWELL born in 1843 in Berkhampstead. Both John Snr and his new wife Sarah appear on the 1841 Census living in Berkhamstead. John TAWELL confessed to the murder of his mistress, Sarah Hart, by prussic acid, his motive being a dread of their relations becoming known. Mary had two illegitimate children by him. He was hung in Aylesbury in 1845...." It appears the two children of Mary Hart, where separated and may have been adopted. Before the TAWELLS returned to England from Colonial Sydney, John sent his eldest son John Downing TAWELL to LONDON to study to become a Surgeon, this may have been around 1825, (also the second name DOWNING may be a clue to other family connections). John Snr's younger son William Henry TAWELL returned to England with his parents around 1829-30, John the Surgeon may have been with them. In newspaper reports in the Sydney Press, it appears that both Dr. John Downing TAWELL with his WIFE and also his brother William Henry TAWELL with his WIFE, visited Sydney on a number occasions, between the years 1832 and the early 1840s. It also appears that John Snr., also returned to the Colony on a number of occasions, maybe to sell off some of his vast property holdings. In March on 1836, while on a visit to Sydney, he attempted to give dramatic proof of his high principles when he poured £500 worth of rum and gin into Sydney Cove to impress the visiting Quaker Missionary, James Blackhouse. John Snr. had received an Absolute Pardon from the Governor, which was what allowed him to return to England with his family, he was a very rich man, and left many properties and investments in the Colony in the hands of his Agent. When the family left for England, John TAWELL as reputed he was worth over £14,000. The only way a convict could return to England was with an Absolute Pardon adn they were very rate indeed. Even though all had served their sentences of 7, 14, 21 years, they were not encourage to leave the shores of the place they had called home for so long. A convict given the sentence of transportation for Life, meant Life. They recieved what was referred to as a Conditional Pardon after serving at least 8 years of their sentence. Also, all convicts when they received their Certificates of Freedom or Condition Pardons, where given substanicial Land Grants, as where their Colonial born children. A great incentive to stay put. My husband's convict ggg grandfather and his two sons, received large land grants in Castlereagh Street, right in the middle of what is today to CBD of Sydney. Both Dr. John Downing TAWELL and his brother William Henry TAWELL, both died young in England. It was lucky for them that they both died before their father committed his ghastly crime of murder most foul. John Jnr. died on a lung complaint in the June Quarter of 1843 in Islington. I am trying to find out the name of John Downing TAWELL'S wife and what was her maiden name. I found John Downing TAWELL aged 30 on the 1841 Census, of Independent means, living in Earls Colen, living with him was Richard Russell 5 and Sarah Drake 20, however no Mrs. TAWELL. I am not quite sure of the actual year of William Henry TAWELL'S death, it could have been 1839 or 1842, these deaths are under the name TOWELL (this was they way the name was pronounced). However, it is the marriages of the brothers in London that I would love to be able to locate, so their wives names can be found and added to this very intriguing story. In the Sydney newspapers, they would refer to the wives as Mrs. TAWELL, not even giving an initial to help to identify them. Also, where would John Downing TAWELL have studied to be a Surgeon. Would it have been at a London hospital or at a University or College? Cheers Janice Belrose, Sydney Down Under

Possibly Cane Hill? My great grandmother was living in Putney and that's where she ended up. Sent from my iPad On 30 Oct 2011, at 11:15, "Phyllis Bartlett" <p.bartlett8@iinet.net.au> wrote: > If someone was living in Vauxhall London in the 1910s and was admitted to an > Asylum, would any Lister know where he/she would be sent to?' > > Phyllis Bartlett > Queensland, Aust. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have been struggling with this individual for ages. He was a nephew of my 4xgt-grandfather; his parents were James Wagner and his wife Louisa, nee Robson. George was baptised in Feb 1834 at St Saviour, Southwark [with his sister]. I have him in the 1841 census, boarding at a school in Lambeth. After that, he seems to have disappeared: 1 He is not the George Wagner who married Letitia Saffery in 1849 [our George would only have been 15 at the time, and the family details are wrong]. 2 The George Wagner, potman, in Bermondsey in the 1851C is almost 10 years too young, which even by standards of the time makes it unlikely this was my man - though it can't perhaps be ruled out. 3 There is a bankruptcy petition in the London Gazette in 1855-6 and a record of conviction for larceny and housebreaking in 1887, both for a George Wagner, but nothing to tell me if it was George Robson Wagner. 4 There is a possible death in FBMD in 1890; George Wagner, aged 63 - about right - in Fulham. And that's it, except that in 1876-7 he [with his younger brother Henry Robson Wagner, who I have traced] was a co-plaintiff in a family legal action with my 3xgt-grandfather, his first cousin, for which I have a copy of part of an affidavit which gives their full names. I have traced his family in successive cenuses after 1841 and George is not with them. So I'm at a standstill! Any ideas, please? Help very gratefully received! from Valerie in sunny Sheffield UK

My great grandmother was in Cane Hill too. She died there in 1917, and had been living in the Boro, Southwark. Phyllis, do you know anything about your great grandmother's time there? I'd be curious! Kristen in Toronto, Canada -----Original Message----- From: london-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:london-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nettie Edwards Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 12:16 PM To: Phyllis Bartlett Cc: London List Subject: Re: [LON] Asylums Possibly Cane Hill? My great grandmother was living in Putney and that's where she ended up. Sent from my iPad On 30 Oct 2011, at 11:15, "Phyllis Bartlett" <p.bartlett8@iinet.net.au> wrote: > If someone was living in Vauxhall London in the 1910s and was admitted to an > Asylum, would any Lister know where he/she would be sent to?' > > Phyllis Bartlett > Queensland, Aust. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1834 / Virus Database: 2092/4584 - Release Date: 10/30/11

Hi Janice I can't help with William Henrys marriage (perhaps in Australia?) But for John Downing London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about John Downing Towell Name: John Downing Towell Spouse Name: Isabella Bethia Blyth Record Type: Marriage *by licence* Marriage Date: 09 Nov 1833 Parish: St Mary, Newington County: Surrey Borough: Southwark Witnesses Richard ROBERTS & Emma Marina WATSON And her subsequent remarriage in 1848 London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Isabella Bethia Tawell Name: Isabella Bethia Tawell Spouse Name: John Fairbank Spouse Age: Full Age Record Type: Marriage Marriage Date: 28 Oct 1848 Parish: St Mary County: Middlesex Borough: Islington Father Name: Charles Blyth Spouse Father Name: John Fairbank (could she have been in Australia in 1841?) And the possible marriage for John senior London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about John Tawell Name: John Tawell Spouse Name: Mary Freeman Record Type: Marriage Marriage Date: 09 Nov 1808 Parish: St James, Piccadilly, Westminster County: Middlesex Borough: Westminster In the same location as you cite your John D TAWELL in 1841 there is the following family (TAWELL on the page) Is this a connected family or is the John D TAWELL a red herring? (also on the same page is an older possible John TAWELL and Mary, or is it TOWERS as transcribed?) 1841 England Census about William Lawell Name: William Lawell Age: 27 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1814 Gender: Male Where born: Essex, England Civil parish: Earls Colne Hundred: Lexden (Witham Division) County/Island: Essex Country: England Registration district: Halstead Sub-registration district: Halstead Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 335 Book: 5 Folio: 32 Page Number: 18 Household Members: Name Age William Lawell 27 Sarah Lawell 27 Thomas Lawell 4 William Lawell 3 Emma Lawell 2 John Lawell 10 MO HO107; Piece 335; Book: 5; Civil Parish: Earls Colne; County: Essex; Enumeration District: 14; Folio: 32; Page: 18; Line: 19; GSU roll: 241373. The John TAWELL above appears to be :- England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about John Frederic Tawell Name: John Frederic Tawell Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1840 Registration district: Halstead Inferred County: Essex Volume: 12 Page: 103 His possible marriage England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915 about John Frederick Tawell Name: John Frederick Tawell Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1868 Registration district: Lexden Inferred County: Essex Volume Number: 4a Page Number: 529 England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915 about Elizabeth Goodey Name: Elizabeth Goodey Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1868 Registration district: Lexden Inferred County: Essex Volume Number: 4a Page Number: 529 And probate Probate Calendars 1891 TAWELL John Frederick 5th August Adminsitartion of the Personal Estate of John Frederick Tawell late of Aldham in the County of Essex Farmer who died 9 May 1891 at Aldham was granted at the Principal Registry to Elizabeth Tawell of Aldham Widow the Relict Personal Estate £713 14s 6d Is it coincidence that there is a William D TAWELL b1838 Earls Colne in 1861 And the following marriage England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915 about William Downing Tawell Name: William Downing Tawell Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1862 Registration district: Clerkenwell Inferred County: London Volume Number: 1b Page Number: 648 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) Good afternoon Listers, I am hoping SKS can help me regarding the marriages of the two sons of John Tawell, the man who was hung in Aylesbury for the murder of his Mistress Sarah Hart aka Lawrence. I believe both marriages would have taken place in London, who before the Free BMD records on the Website. "...John Tawell (1784-1845) was a British murderer. In 1845, he became the first person to be arrested as the result of telecommunications technology. Transported to Australia in 1815 for the crime of forgery, Tawell obtained a ticket of leave, and started as a chemist in Sydney. He also in 1823 arranged for and paid for his wife Mary and two sons John and William to join him in Sydney Town. John running his Chemist and Drug store flourished, and after fifteen years left it a rich man. John returning to England, he married a Quaker lady Widow Sarah Calford as his second wife in 1841, after his wife Mary died in England in 1838. John Snr.and Sarah TAWELL (Calford) had one son Henry Augustus TAWELL born in 1843 in Berkhampstead. Both John Snr and his new wife Sarah appear on the 1841 Census living in Berkhamstead. John TAWELL confessed to the murder of his mistress, Sarah Hart, by prussic acid, his motive being a dread of their relations becoming known. Mary had two illegitimate children by him. He was hung in Aylesbury in 1845...." It appears the two children of Mary Hart, where separated and may have been adopted. Before the TAWELLS returned to England from Colonial Sydney, John sent his eldest son John Downing TAWELL to LONDON to study to become a Surgeon, this may have been around 1825, (also the second name DOWNING may be a clue to other family connections). John Snr's younger son William Henry TAWELL returned to England with his parents around 1829-30, John the Surgeon may have been with them. In newspaper reports in the Sydney Press, it appears that both Dr. John Downing TAWELL with his WIFE and also his brother William Henry TAWELL with his WIFE, visited Sydney on a number occasions, between the years 1832 and the early 1840s. It also appears that John Snr., also returned to the Colony on a number of occasions, maybe to sell off some of his vast property holdings. In March on 1836, while on a visit to Sydney, he attempted to give dramatic proof of his high principles when he poured £500 worth of rum and gin into Sydney Cove to impress the visiting Quaker Missionary, James Blackhouse. John Snr. had received an Absolute Pardon from the Governor, which was what allowed him to return to England with his family, he was a very rich man, and left many properties and investments in the Colony in the hands of his Agent. When the family left for England, John TAWELL as reputed he was worth over £14,000. The only way a convict could return to England was with an Absolute Pardon adn they were very rate indeed. Even though all had served their sentences of 7, 14, 21 years, they were not encourage to leave the shores of the place they had called home for so long. A convict given the sentence of transportation for Life, meant Life. They recieved what was referred to as a Conditional Pardon after serving at least 8 years of their sentence. Also, all convicts when they received their Certificates of Freedom or Condition Pardons, where given substanicial Land Grants, as where their Colonial born children. A great incentive to stay put. My husband's convict ggg grandfather and his two sons, received large land grants in Castlereagh Street, right in the middle of what is today to CBD of Sydney. Both Dr. John Downing TAWELL and his brother William Henry TAWELL, both died young in England. It was lucky for them that they both died before their father committed his ghastly crime of murder most foul. John Jnr. died on a lung complaint in the June Quarter of 1843 in Islington. I am trying to find out the name of John Downing TAWELL'S wife and what was her maiden name. I found John Downing TAWELL aged 30 on the 1841 Census, of Independent means, living in Earls Colen, living with him was Richard Russell 5 and Sarah Drake 20, however no Mrs. TAWELL. I am not quite sure of the actual year of William Henry TAWELL'S death, it could have been 1839 or 1842, these deaths are under the name TOWELL (this was they way the name was pronounced). However, it is the marriages of the brothers in London that I would love to be able to locate, so their wives names can be found and added to this very intriguing story. In the Sydney newspapers, they would refer to the wives as Mrs. TAWELL, not even giving an initial to help to identify them. Also, where would John Downing TAWELL have studied to be a Surgeon. Would it have been at a London hospital or at a University or College? Cheers Janice Belrose, Sydney Down Under

Just a quick search: Both from Ancestry. London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 Name: John Downing Towell -Bachelor of this parish Spouse Name: Isabella Bethia Blyth of the parish of St Lawrence Jewry Record Type: Marriage (by licence) Marriage Date: 09 Nov 1833 Parish: St Mary, Newington County: Surrey Borough: Southwark Witnesses: not certain of these at all! Richard Roberts??? and Emma Marina Watson ................... London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 Name: Isabella Bethia Tawell widow Spouse Name: John Fairbank Occ:Chemist Spouse Age: Full Age Record Type: Marriage Marriage Date: 28 Oct 1848 Parish: St Mary County: Middlesex Borough: Islington Father Name: Charles Blyth Occ:Wholesale hosier Spouse Father Name: John Fairbank Occ:Gentleman Witnesses were-James Blyth??? wow that's tough to read!! and Anne Maria Blyth ................. On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 1:28 AM, Janice Doughty <adoughty01@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > Good afternoon Listers, (sorry-I snipped the entire post!) MaureeninNY

Thank you so much Herb, Yes I have this already but appreciate your input. We are trying to find the child born to Sarah Jane Metcalfe and Joseph Benjamin Graham. Frustrating isn't it. Muriel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herb Proudley" <hap@csolve.net> To: <london@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:55 PM Subject: [LON] Graham + Metcalfe Brick Wall > Hi Muriel. > > The name of the child you are seeking is Evelyn Mildred Graham born > June 21, 1912 in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. > > I will send you a copy of the birth registration. > > Herb Proudley > Penetanguishene, Ontario, Canada > > > From: "Murlel Sherlock" <muriel.sherlock@iolfree.ie> > Precedence: list > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: <london@rootsweb.com> > Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 22:34:01 +0100 > Message-ID: <784CBDE324474DE1847C5797767649F4@muriel40218e0d> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="Windows-1252" > Subject: [LON] Graham + Metcalfe Brick Wall > Message: 7 > > Hi Everyone > Some of you might remember a previous posting on my Brick Wall > But thought I would try again in case some new person might read it. > > Joseph Benjamin Graham born Dec 1881 ( my grandmothers brother ) was > a pharmacist. went to London from Tyrone Ireland. > He married Sarah Jane Metcalfe in St Peters Vauxhall Lambeth ( Church > of England ) March 11, 1904. > They were both 22 yrs of age. He lived at 8 Leopold Street and she > lived at 17 Leopold Street. > She was the daughter of Thomas Metcalfe, a commission Agent. > The witnesses were George Hugh Bray and Lottie Bray, which were the > people Joseph Benjamin Lodged with. > > By Christmas of 1909 he had emig to Canada and was living in Ontario > with.................... a Mildred F Spence. > I have been able to trace this lady and her descendants. They didn't > marry, but Mildred had a little girl to him. > This story goes that they were planning a wedding in Ontario when a > distant cousin visited with them. > Told Mildred she couldn't marry him as he was already married in > London AND HAD A CHILD. > At this, Mildred came home to her own folk. I'm now in touch with the > family so know this story to be true. > > But when Sarah Jane Metcalfe had the child ( sex unknown ) it had to > be born between 1904 - 1910. So somewhere out there > I have another cousin. > > So can anybody help knock down my Brick Wall. > > Muriel > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list > on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for > matching interests and add your own ! > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Begin forwarded message: > From: Anne Peat <anne.peat@bigwindows.demon.co.uk> > Date: 26 October 2011 12:12:51 GMT+01:00 > To: Robyn Clarke <rsclarke@bigpond.com> > Cc: <LONDON@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [LON] BENJAMIN WALTER ROBERTSON Birth Enquiry > > According to the Ancestry baptisms a James & Harriet Robertson had two daughters baptised in Islington in 1835 & 1836 > > Jane Sarah Robertson 19 Jun 1836 James Robertson, > Harriet Robertson Islington St Mary Islington > d Harriet Emma Robertson 3 May 1835 James Robertson, > Harriet Robertson Islington St Mary Islington > > They lived in Field Place Islington and James was a bookbinder > > There was also a Charles Robertson baptised in Ealing in 1841 son of James & Harriet. This James was a Labourer. > Name: Charles Robertson Record Type: Baptism Estimated Birth Date: abt 1840 Baptism Date: 2 Nov 1840 Father's Name: James Robertson Mother's Name: Harriet Robertson Parish or Poor Law Union: Norwood Green St Mary the Virgin Borough: Ealing > > Have you tried looking for him & his supposed parents in censuses? > > Name: Walter Robertson > Age: 10 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841 > Gender: M (Male) > Where born: Pancras, Middlesex, England > Civil parish: St Pancras > County/Island: Middlesex > Country: England > Street Address: > > Registration district: Pancras > Sub-registration district: Somers Town > ED, institution, or vessel: 7 > Neighbors: View others on page > Household schedule number: 322 > Piece: 1496 > Folio: 314 > Page Number: 80 > Household Members: > Name Age > Walter Robertson 39 > Lucy Robertson 40 > Jane Robertson 17 > Ann Robertson 15 > Walter Robertson 10 > James Robertson 7 > Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1496; Folio: 314; Page: 80; GSU roll: 87828-87829. > > HTH > Anne > > On 26 Oct 2011, at 11:41, Robyn Clarke wrote: > >> Hello List, >> >> My brick wall is really stuck. I am helping a friend with online research >> as I live in Australia. >> >> I have searched the websites, both free and subscription ones to try and >> find the Birth or Baptism entry for this person without success. >> >> I am hoping that someone on this great List may be able to help me find the >> following Birth. >> >> Here is the Index: >> >> BENJAMIN WALTER ROBERTSON June Quarter 1842 District London Vol. 2 Page 186. >> >> There are no other Index entries for a person of this name. >> >> My man is later called WALTER ROBERTSON, he states in a Military Record that >> he was born in Parish of St. Anne Blackfriars Middlesex. >> His parents should be James and Harriet Robertson, but I can't be sure. At >> least finding this entry may help my cause. >> >> As I am not familiar with the various Parishes and Districts I am hoping the >> above information may help in finding a Church record. >> >> My last resort is having to buy the above Certificate, but as I am just >> helping here, my hope is someone may be able to help me. >> >> TIA, >> >> Robyn Clarke >> Australia >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! >> >> Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Maybe someone will have more success than I have in finding a birth for my maternal great-grandfather, Henry Richard SHERIDAN. The family 'myth' was that he came from Clonmel, County Tipperary, but research in Ireland has turned up not trace of him there, and in every census where I have found him, he gives his birthplace as Southwark or Blackfriars. His father was Henry Richard or Richard SHERIDAN a cooper or general dealer born around 1838 in Kilburn, Bermondsey or Brentford ( according to different censuses). He died in the Workhouse infirmary, Southwark in December 1901, and his death was registered by his daughter Ellen DUGGAN (nee SHERIDAN) who was a step-sister of my great grandfather ( in spite of the fact that Ellen's marriage certificate says her father was deceased when she married in 1891|) Both father and son occasionally called themselves HARRIS, and some of the family birth's were registered with the surname SHERRINGTON, so they didn't seem to be very literate. Both father and son seem to have married ( or at least living with different 'wives') several times. My grandfather married my grandmother Catherine HALL only after they had 5 children, and married his second wife Elizabeth HEASEMAN in 1917, after my grandmother died, although they had a son, Albert Henry SHERRINGTON in 1893. Here is what I have found of my grandfather through official documents - certificates and censuses Death cert says 57 on 7 Feb 1918 so born Mar 1860 - Feb1861 Marriage cert ( 1 ) says 30 in Sept 1890 so born Oct 1859 - Sept 1860 Marriage cert (2 ) says 56 on 28 March 1917 so born April 1860 - March 1861 1891 census says 31 on 5 April so born late April 1859-March 1860 Possibly in 1871 at 9 Windmill St Row Court Lambeth RG10 650 Richard Harris,aged 13 born Blackfriars Christ Church In 1881 at 46 Henry Street RG11; Piece: 522; Folio: 84; Page: 17; St Saviour Southwark Kent Road ED7b aged 22 In 1891 census at 55 Webber Row, Southwark St Saviour RG12 350 aged 31 aged 40 at 1901 census, so born Apr 1860-March1861 RG13 07 97 21 101 ( also in 1901 with Elizabeth and Albert as Richard Harris a cooper born Southwark at 66 Elliotts Row Southwark RG13; Piece: 370; Folio: 50; Page: 40 ) In 1911 as Henry R Harris with Elizabeth and Albert at 37 St Gabriel Street Southwark RG14PN1855 RG78PN65 RD23 SD5 ED37 SN477) I would be extremely grateful if anyone could find a birth or baptism for my grandfather, as that seems to be the onky way of finding who his mother was. Anne.

Further to my earlier response, Eveyln and her mother, Mildred F. Graham returned to England departing from New York, New York USA and arrived in Liverpool 24 Dec 1016 on the Baltic of the White Star Line. Herb Proudley

Hi Muriel. The name of the child you are seeking is Evelyn Mildred Graham born June 21, 1912 in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I will send you a copy of the birth registration. Herb Proudley Penetanguishene, Ontario, Canada From: "Murlel Sherlock" <muriel.sherlock@iolfree.ie> Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 To: <london@rootsweb.com> Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 22:34:01 +0100 Message-ID: <784CBDE324474DE1847C5797767649F4@muriel40218e0d> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Subject: [LON] Graham + Metcalfe Brick Wall Message: 7 Hi Everyone Some of you might remember a previous posting on my Brick Wall But thought I would try again in case some new person might read it. Joseph Benjamin Graham born Dec 1881 ( my grandmothers brother ) was a pharmacist. went to London from Tyrone Ireland. He married Sarah Jane Metcalfe in St Peters Vauxhall Lambeth ( Church of England ) March 11, 1904. They were both 22 yrs of age. He lived at 8 Leopold Street and she lived at 17 Leopold Street. She was the daughter of Thomas Metcalfe, a commission Agent. The witnesses were George Hugh Bray and Lottie Bray, which were the people Joseph Benjamin Lodged with. By Christmas of 1909 he had emig to Canada and was living in Ontario with.................... a Mildred F Spence. I have been able to trace this lady and her descendants. They didn't marry, but Mildred had a little girl to him. This story goes that they were planning a wedding in Ontario when a distant cousin visited with them. Told Mildred she couldn't marry him as he was already married in London AND HAD A CHILD. At this, Mildred came home to her own folk. I'm now in touch with the family so know this story to be true. But when Sarah Jane Metcalfe had the child ( sex unknown ) it had to be born between 1904 - 1910. So somewhere out there I have another cousin. So can anybody help knock down my Brick Wall. Muriel

Subject: RE: [LON] BENJAMIN WALTER ROBERTSON Birth Enquiry Hello Anne, Thank you for your help. What I am trying to find is a needle in a haystack I believe.....but here is what I have. I have 1841 Census entry which is supposed to be his family as here: 1841 St. Anne Blackfriars Dist. 11, London Middlesex 12 Evangelist Crt. JAMES ROBERTSON 35 ...T Bookbinder.(S)cotland HARRIET ROBERTSON 30, (N) HARRIETT 6, JANE 5, MARY ANN 3, AGNES 1. All children ( Y) It appears JAMES ROBERTSON died after birth of daughter, MARGARET GRAY in 1847, HARRIET then married, a MR. GRAY (Can't find any Marriage to either husband) then in 1851 - 60 Charlotte St., Islington All Saints Harriett Gray Head, Widow 43 yrs. Laundress born Amwell, Herts. Harriett R Gray 16 dau. Bookfolder b. Islington Mary Ann Robertson Gray 13 dau. B. Clerkenwell Agnes Robertson Gray dau. 11 born City of London Margaret R Gray 4 dau. born St. Andrews Holborn Missing is daughter Jane who is staying with her maternal Grandmother in Amwell, Herts. As well a son, DAVID JAMES GRAY aged 2 yrs. Born St. Andrews Holborn, Staying with his Uncle, ALEX GRAY born Edinburgh Scotland and wife in Clerkenwell. DJ Gray re-appears with his Mum Harriett in 1861. WALTER ROBERTSON is missing, but there are a couple of BENJAMIN ROBERTSON's of similar age, visiting or boarding in 1851.... In 1871 WALTER appears - 1871 Census - District Camp Cheriton Kent. Single aged 28 years Clerk, Corporal Royal Engineers. British Army Service Records - Enlisted 25 July 1863 Royal Engineers No. 7690. Calling, Clerk - age 21 years and 3 months. Born 1842 Parish St. Anns London. Living Parish St. Margarets'..London. So you see my dilemma........I have also traced Harriett and her other family up to 1901.....as well as Walter after 1871 to 1911 and beyond. I am hoping that this entry for BENJAMIN WALTER ROBERTSON is him....... Thank you again Anne for your suggestion, but I have already discounted Walter and Lucy's family. Cheers, Robyn

I am looking for anyone descended from John MacGOWAN who was living in 7 Bruton St, London in 1850's. From the census records he was living with his 2nd wife Sarah LAVENDER, his daughter from his first marriage Margaret Mac

Hi Everyone Some of you might remember a previous posting on my Brick Wall But thought I would try again in case some new person might read it. Joseph Benjamin Graham born Dec 1881 ( my grandmothers brother ) was a pharmacist. went to London from Tyrone Ireland. He married Sarah Jane Metcalfe in St Peters Vauxhall Lambeth ( Church of England ) March 11, 1904. They were both 22 yrs of age. He lived at 8 Leopold Street and she lived at 17 Leopold Street. She was the daughter of Thomas Metcalfe, a commission Agent. The witnesses were George Hugh Bray and Lottie Bray, which were the people Joseph Benjamin Lodged with. By Christmas of 1909 he had emig to Canada and was living in Ontario with.................... a Mildred F Spence. I have been able to trace this lady and her descendants. They didn't marry, but Mildred had a little girl to him. This story goes that they were planning a wedding in Ontario when a distant cousin visited with them. Told Mildred she couldn't marry him as he was already married in London AND HAD A CHILD. At this, Mildred came home to her own folk. I'm now in touch with the family so know this story to be true. But when Sarah Jane Metcalfe had the child ( sex unknown ) it had to be born between 1904 - 1910. So somewhere out there I have another cousin. So can anybody help knock down my Brick Wall. Muriel

Hello List, My brick wall is really stuck. I am helping a friend with online research as I live in Australia. I have searched the websites, both free and subscription ones to try and find the Birth or Baptism entry for this person without success. I am hoping that someone on this great List may be able to help me find the following Birth. Here is the Index: BENJAMIN WALTER ROBERTSON June Quarter 1842 District London Vol. 2 Page 186. There are no other Index entries for a person of this name. My man is later called WALTER ROBERTSON, he states in a Military Record that he was born in Parish of St. Anne Blackfriars Middlesex. His parents should be James and Harriet Robertson, but I can't be sure. At least finding this entry may help my cause. As I am not familiar with the various Parishes and Districts I am hoping the above information may help in finding a Church record. My last resort is having to buy the above Certificate, but as I am just helping here, my hope is someone may be able to help me. TIA, Robyn Clarke Australia

There appears to be a lot of success stories Mike. I had my brothers dna tested still waiting but it depends on how many have tested for a particular surname. I am a bit of a sceptic also but nothing ventured nothing gained. Have just paid for a familyfinder test for myself to see what happens. I have a brickwall so this is what I am doing as a last resort. As you say Lesley needs a male Gould to get started. Edie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Fry" <fredbonzo@iafrica.com> To: <london@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [LON] BRICK WALL : GOULD > On 2011/10/26 01:04, Edie wrote: > >> If all else fails you could try one of your Gould male lines for a ydna >> test >> Jackie. You never know. > > That pre-supposes that she has identified a 'live' descendent of the male > line > in question that can be used as The Reference. Usually we don't have that > luxury. We do genealogy in order to find these unknowns. Working backwards > to > find the ancestors and then forwards to find the distant relations. > > DNA as a research tool, is next to useless for genealogical purposes. > [Just my > personal opinion] > > -- > Regards, > Mike Fry > Johannesburg > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list > on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for > matching interests and add your own ! > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Twickenham has always been in Middlesex......until Middlesex disappeared in the 1974 reorganisation when it became part of "Greater London". Ruth > From: lacodak@msn.com > To: London@rootsweb.com > Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 11:29:41 -0600 > Subject: [LON] Which Bourough was Twickenham in during 1700's > > Could someone please tell me which county or Bourough Twickenham was located in during the 1700's as my ancestors married in Twickenham in 1756 and would like to find out which county this was in so I can follow up on my research. Thank you. > > Lori > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am grateful for the help LONDON Listers have given me in the past and I am hoping someone may find what happened to Mary MILLER (nee CUNDILL) and her daughters Margaret Elizabeth MILLER and Edith Mary MILLER. My grandmother's cousin, Mary Cundill married David Miller, Jewel case maker, in London: 1883 Marriage solemnized at the Church of St Philip in the parish of Clerkenwell in the County of Middlesex (Holborn Registration District) No.425 Dec 24th 1883 David Miller Age 25 Bachelor Jewell (sic) Case Maker 15 Yardley St. Mary Cundill Age 25 Spinster 24 Lloyd Square James Miller, Butler (decd.) Andrew Cundill, Blacksmith Married in the Church of St Philip according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church, after Banns by me, Alfred T. Fryer. This Marriage was solemnized between us, David Miller, Mary Cundill, in the Presence of us, Robert Carr, Margaret Cundill, Henry Thomas Probert. in London in 1883. More details of this couple to help identify them: David MILLER, born 18 April 1859 in Edinburgh, Scotland. (Registered as "David Dughie Stevenson, illegitimate.") His parents were James Miller, butler, and Elizabeth Stevenson Occupation in 1883: Jewel case maker Mary MILLER, nee CUNDILL, born 24 December 1857 in Edinburgh, Scotland. (Her name on birth certificate registered as "Mary Parker Candill" but indexed under Mary Parker Candell!) Her parents were Andrew Cundill, blacksmith, and Margaret Pringle Occupation in 1881: Jewel case liner David and Mary Miller had 2 children that I know of: Baptism - St Mary Islington born 25 Nov 1885, bapt 20 Dec 1885, Margaret Elizabeth, daughter of David & Mary Miller, abode 40 St Peter St, occupation "case maker" Baptism - St Silas Pentonville, Islington born 27 Jan 1888, Bapt 6 May 1888, Edith Mary, daughter of David & Mary Miller, abode 22 Rodney St, occupation "jewel case maker" I could not find this family in 1891 and 1901 censuses. Mary MILLER seems to have died between 1888 and 1911. David Miller remarried in 1911: St Peters Church, Islington, Middlesex - 6 August 1911 David Miller, 49, Widower, Jewel Casemaker, 19 St Peters Street, father James Miller (deceased), valet Catherine Edith James, 36, Widow, -----, 19 St Peters Street, father William Dunn (deceased), Cabinetmaker Witnesses: Charles Harvey, Florence Harvey and David Miller died in 1918: Death 1918 Sep qtr. Islington 1b 174 1918 Death in the Sub-district of Tufnell in the County of London No. 165 Tenth September 1918, Islington Infirmary, Highgate Hill David Miller Male 57 years Of 147 Shepperton Road, Islington. A jewel case maker Mitral valvular disease of Heart. Certified by Y. J. Cirh MRCS K. Miller, Widow of deceased. Present at the death. 147 Shepperton Road, Islington Eleventh September 1918 A. R. Hind, Deputy Registrar. Thank you for reading this far. Best wishes, John Johnston