Hi Bill, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Dalton" <rnbill@centurytel.net> >I am trying to get the birth and death certs on an ancestor. The only > problem is that there are 4 possible candidates for each, total of 8. > The only saving grace is that I know the names of both of the parents. > The only problem is that when I sent the GRO an email asking how to > request the certs since there is no place to list the parents, they > replied that they no longer provide a reference checking service. > > Any ideas on how to tell them exactly which certs are the ones to send > without having to unload my wallet on extra fees for researching their > records?> > Thanks> Bill Dalton > Not sure where you are but your e-mail address would suggest the U.S.A. You do not give further details but I assume that the certificates originate with London Registration Districts? On that assumption: I would check for the baptisms of the four candidates - that would give me hopefully the names of all four sets of parents. It might also be possible to match the addresses to the Registration Districts, opening the way to obtaining the certificate from the local Register Office (N.B. GRO references are no use to the local offices) Each Registration District runs fairly independently, and one or two used not to encourage "historical " certificates,but I think most have now realised they are a source of revenue:-) Each R.D. will have its own website, and information on obtaining certificates and making enquiries. Furnish more details of your candidates for your certs and I am sure people on this list will be able to advise further. Kind regards, John Henley

Hi Bill Whilst they have stopped the old checking system they do a similar system which is actually cheaper Use the online ordering system, where it says with GRO reference, enter no Enter the year and follow through the rest adding details as required, you will see you can add the parents names as you go through They will search the year entered and one either side If the exact date is not known enter 01/01/XXXX being the year If they find a match they will send it, if no match found you will not be charged Unless you know the mothers maiden name there is still a chance you may get the wrong cert if the parents names are identical but the chances are very much reduced Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >I am trying to get the birth and death certs on an ancestor. The only > problem is that there are 4 possible candidates for each, total of 8. > The only saving grace is that I know the names of both of the parents. > The only problem is that when I sent the GRO an email asking how to > request the certs since there is no place to list the parents, they > replied that they no longer provide a reference checking service. > > Any ideas on how to tell them exactly which certs are the ones to send > without having to unload my wallet on extra fees for researching their > records? > > Thanks > Bill Dalton

Bill, Instead of sending for them from the GRO can you try the local Register Office? They might be more amendable to checking beforehand. Have you tried looking for them in censuses? Have you tried looking for the christenings burials on the Ancestry LMA transcriptions to eliminate some of the possible candidates? Could you tell us who you are looking for and what dates? Then someone on the list might be able to eliminate someone for you. Anne On 26 May 2011, at 19:36, Bill Dalton wrote: > I am trying to get the birth and death certs on an ancestor. The only > problem is that there are 4 possible candidates for each, total of 8. > The only saving grace is that I know the names of both of the parents. > The only problem is that when I sent the GRO an email asking how to > request the certs since there is no place to list the parents, they > replied that they no longer provide a reference checking service. > > Any ideas on how to tell them exactly which certs are the ones to send > without having to unload my wallet on extra fees for researching their > records? > > Thanks > Bill Dalton

Bill - instead of ordering them through the GRO why not write to the Superintendent Registrar at the Register Office where the event took place? They are much more likely to check the parents for you and (if you are lucky) won't charge you if they can't find the right cert. Addresses of Register Offices can be found through www.genuki.org Ruth in Hampshire > Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 11:36:15 -0700 > From: rnbill@centurytel.net > To: LONDON@rootsweb.com > Subject: [LON] Help getting a certificate > > I am trying to get the birth and death certs on an ancestor. The only > problem is that there are 4 possible candidates for each, total of 8. > The only saving grace is that I know the names of both of the parents. > The only problem is that when I sent the GRO an email asking how to > request the certs since there is no place to list the parents, they > replied that they no longer provide a reference checking service. > > Any ideas on how to tell them exactly which certs are the ones to send > without having to unload my wallet on extra fees for researching their > records? > > Thanks > Bill Dalton > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Evening Listers Would just like to enquire, if anyone has this couple in their tree Alfred Knowelden b. abt 1877 d. 1948 Poplar married Poplar in 1901 to Elizabeth Hendra b. 1881 Poplar d. 1943 Poplar Elizabeth was the daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth Hendra Alfred Knowelden and Elizabeth Hendra had 10 children born between 1902 and 1920 Regards Margaret

I've been going round in circles on internet sites trying to determine where I might find records for Providence Chapel, Uxbridge for the period 1867 - 1882, baptisms. The West Middlesex Family History Society's web page seems to indicate that the Local Studies Archives at the Uxbridge Library is the repository for Uxbridge records, but there is no email address or website given. I've looked elsewhere for Providence Chapel records but even the LDS does not seem to have the years I need on microfilm. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Is Providence Chapel still in existence in Uxbridge? Specifically, I'm hoping to find the baptisms of: DEVERILL, Ada Mary in 1868, daughter of Willam Henry and Mary Margaret DEVERILL, Harry Thomas in 1870, son of the above DEVERILL, Kate Sara in 1872, daughter DEVERILL, William John in 1875, son DEVERILL, Mary Maud in 1878, daughter. Their parents, William Henry DEVERILL and Mary Margaret TAYLOR were married in this non-conformist church, however all these children appear to have later married in Cof E. (I have the birth registrations, but not baptisms. Hoping to know which church the family used after the marriage, or if they baptised these children at all.) Thanks for any advice, Tracy in Ontario, Canada

On 2011-05-26 12:01 AM, Maureen Burton wrote: > He married Mary RUTT in 1817 St Pancras. > I have an approx birth date for Mary of 1793 but no place of birth. > I am assuming (wrong to assume, I know) that Frederick John was born about > the same time but no idea of place of birth. > There is an entry on 1841 Census but I cannot read the entry on FMP. Any > better eyes than mine out there? Best I can make of 1817 marriage is what Ancestry have which is BARLOW - very faint. He put his mark so name only shown once. I suppose it could be BARTON. > > 1841 Census > BARDON, Frederick > ST MARYLEBONE, Middlesex > HO107 piece 677 folio 14/57 page 19 Looks like BARDON and he is a Har'n M presumably Harness maker And no children seen They live in Little Park Lane Anyhow these people do not appear to your folk > > I have found 3 children of this marriage, so far, > Sarah born 1831 > Frederick John born 1835 Paddington > Mary Ann born 1840 Paddington. all baptised 19 May 1841 at Paddington St James with birth dates as you said parents clearly Frederick John Barton and Mary Barton He is a plasterer - living at Dudley St. So if your link to this family is through one of the children then I am fairly sure that the Bardon 1841 is not them. Alas Paddington is missing from 1841 census on Ancestry. And for sure Dudley St is not listed in 1841 on http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ Street Project Presumably birth of Mary Ann Barton Jul-Aug-Sep 1840 Kensington 3 283 Do you have it? Presumbly it confirm mother's maiden name as RUTT I looked for Mary Ann in 1851 HO107; Piece: 1466; Folio: 67; Page: 34 5 Edwards Place same area as Dudley St Mary Barton abt 1798 St James Head Thomas H Barton abt 1826 Paddington Son Mary Ann Barton abt 1841 Paddington Daughter Mary is a widow and son is a Plasterer and his baptism confirms the right people Thomas Henry Barton 22 Jan 1826 Frederick John Barton, Mary Barton St Marylebone Westminster father is a plasterer and address is just Paddn. perhaps Dudley St There are other children baptised from 1819 on also But father is shown a Mech/c one is John Meshach Barton 24 Mar 1822 Frederick John Barton, Mary Barton St Marylebone which with 1798 from 1851 leads me to Mary Rutt Baptism 25 Feb 1798 St Marylebone, Middlesex to Meshech & Cathe or Mesheck & Catherine There being two pages and both say born 27 Nov (presumably 1797) The burial that Judy found sounds like you man so if 50 in 1846 then born c1796 and strangely using wildcards Bar*o? best I can see in LMA data is John Frederick Barlow Baptism 5 Aug 1792 St Marylebone, Middlesex to Edward, Sarah Perhaps your man was baptised in a church not in LMA collection Ron Lankshear -Sydney NSW (from London-Shepherds Bush/Chiswick) try my links http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lankshear/

I am trying to get the birth and death certs on an ancestor. The only problem is that there are 4 possible candidates for each, total of 8. The only saving grace is that I know the names of both of the parents. The only problem is that when I sent the GRO an email asking how to request the certs since there is no place to list the parents, they replied that they no longer provide a reference checking service. Any ideas on how to tell them exactly which certs are the ones to send without having to unload my wallet on extra fees for researching their records? Thanks Bill Dalton

Thanks everyone...all your suggestions will be looked at tomorrow. I appreciate all your help. Regards Mo -- Maureen Burton Member ESFHS

I think the surname in the census entry must be BARDON. There is a sort of flourish at the end, as Nivard remarked, but that could perhaps be explained by the writer's trying to emphasise the final "n" in view of the imminent line end; or it could even be a later annotation. What other surname could it be? Not BARDOLPH because there aren't letters. The only other possibility is BARDONS, which is also a surname, it seems, and should perhaps not be ruled out. With best wishes, John Townsend Antiquarian Bookseller/Genealogist http://www.johntownsend.demon.co.uk

Hi all I agree with the occupation Judy, Harness maker But I am not so sure the name is BARDON , the last letter has a swirl under which looks to the tail of a g or y to me Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Mo, > > I think this is the entry. > > 1841 census > HO107/677/14 folio 57 page 19 > 2 Little Park Lane, Marylebone > Frederick BARDON 40 Har(nes)s M(aker) Y > Mary BARDON 35 Y > > The writing is very unclear. Both Ancestry and FMP have BARDON, and that > seems feasible. The occupation is hard to read, but perhaps an > abbreviated Harness Maker. Does that, or the address, fit with anything > else you know? > > Presumably Frederick died before 1851, which is why you have no place of > birth for him. Have you found a death/burial for him, with an age > attached? There's a burial at St Mary Paddington on 26 April 1846 of > Frederick John BARTON aged 50, from Hall Park, Paddington. Perhaps > you've already considered that one. > > HTH > > Judy > London, UK >

Mo, I think this is the entry. 1841 census HO107/677/14 folio 57 page 19 2 Little Park Lane, Marylebone Frederick BARDON 40 Har(nes)s M(aker) Y Mary BARDON 35 Y The writing is very unclear. Both Ancestry and FMP have BARDON, and that seems feasible. The occupation is hard to read, but perhaps an abbreviated Harness Maker. Does that, or the address, fit with anything else you know? Presumably Frederick died before 1851, which is why you have no place of birth for him. Have you found a death/burial for him, with an age attached? There's a burial at St Mary Paddington on 26 April 1846 of Frederick John BARTON aged 50, from Hall Park, Paddington. Perhaps you've already considered that one. HTH Judy London, UK -----Original Message----- From: london-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:london-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Maureen Burton I am looking for some indications of the birth of Frederick John BARTON. He married Mary RUTT in 1817 St Pancras. I have an approx birth date for Mary of 1793 but no place of birth. I am assuming (wrong to assume, I know) that Frederick John was born about the same time but no idea of place of birth. There is an entry on 1841 Census but I cannot read the entry on FMP. Any better eyes than mine out there? 1841 Census BARDON, Frederick ST MARYLEBONE, Middlesex HO107 piece 677 folio 14/57 page 19 I have found 3 children of this marriage, so far, Sarah born 1831 Frederick John born 1835 Paddington Mary Ann born 1840 Paddington. Any help with finding this mans birth would be appreciated. Mo -- Maureen Burton Member ESFHS

I am looking for some indications of the birth of Frederick John BARTON. He married Mary RUTT in 1817 St Pancras. I have an approx birth date for Mary of 1793 but no place of birth. I am assuming (wrong to assume, I know) that Frederick John was born about the same time but no idea of place of birth. There is an entry on 1841 Census but I cannot read the entry on FMP. Any better eyes than mine out there? 1841 Census BARDON, Frederick ST MARYLEBONE, Middlesex HO107 piece 677 folio 14/57 page 19 I have found 3 children of this marriage, so far, Sarah born 1831 Frederick John born 1835 Paddington Mary Ann born 1840 Paddington. Any help with finding this mans birth would be appreciated. Mo -- Maureen Burton Member ESFHS

Transit through New York was apparently quite common. I have a great uncle who 'disappeared' in his teens and seemed untraceable until I responded to an advertisement placed by my second cousin in Alberta, Canada. She was also tracing the history of her grandfather, who had changed his 'known by' surname on entering Montreal, Canada via New York. His true name was entered on his death certificate and gravestone and that was how she was able to trace his passage from Liverpool to New York and identify his London origin. Brian Flack

Hi Don't know if it is of any use but my great,great grandfather was a Police Constable who joined in 1803. He is in the 1841 census at 33 Crispin Street, Spitalfields - however his wife and family were at 41 Crispin Street identified as "Police house". The local "police station" (Spitall Fields Watch House) was in in Spital Square and was at that time, 1803, where H division (Whitechapel) was policed from. So it seems quite usual for police constables to be in different locations at the census whilst on duty. Robert in N Wales -----Original Message----- From: london-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 8:00 AM To: london@rootsweb.com Subject: LONDON Digest, Vol 6, Issue 203 There is a webpage for the the London List at : www.londonlist.org.uk/ This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Stepney police stations (Jeanette de Montalk) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 10:15:07 +1200 (NZST) From: Jeanette de Montalk <jmdemontalk@xtra.co.nz> Subject: Re: [LON] Stepney police stations To: Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com>, "LONDON@rootsweb.com" <LONDON@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <230033.8788.qm@web96005.mail.aue.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I know Nivard - that's the problem. I don't know where he was born - possibly Ireland, and between 1810-1820.(at the time police recruits had to be 20-30 years of age).? If I could find him on the 1841 census I'd have a modicum of further information. All I have is his name on the baptism record of his son Thomas William Portland Smith, in October 1841, and the 1841 census entry for his wife Barbara and child Thomas William at Arbour Square.? Regards, Jeanette ________________________________ From: Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> To: J.M.de Montalk <jmdemontalk@xtra.co.nz>; LONDON@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, 21 May 2011 12:58 AM Subject: Re: [LON] Stepney police stations Hi Jeanette When and where was your man born ? There are around 3,000 Robert SMITHs in the 1841 census :-( Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Does anyone know of names of police stations situated in Stepney in 1841? > > My man Robert Smith (policeman) is missing from the 1841 census, but I've > found his wife and child living in Arbour Square. I've always assumed that > the would have been based at the Arbour Square station, but I've just > found out that construction only commenced on it July 1841 so he must have > been based somewhere else - presumably close by? Arbour Square is in the > Commercial Rd area. > > Jeanette ------------------------------ To contact the LONDON list administrator, send an email to LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the LONDON mailing list, send an email to LONDON@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of LONDON Digest, Vol 6, Issue 203 **************************************

Now that the London records are index on line. I haven't been able to find the burial record of Joseph Beavitt between 1807-1816 I have been told that when his wife was transport in 1816 she took the children with her because she was a widow. I haven't found anything to support that she was a widow. the daughter Mary Ann Beavitt baptised 1 Nov 1795 St Martin in the field and died before Oct 1802 [when a younger sister was given the same name] but I haven't been able to find her burial the son George was bap 29 Nov 1797 St Mary's Lambeth Surrey but I can't work out the year of his burial from the records although it is on ancestry, the pages dont have a year recorded. I am also trying to find information on the Hotels Joe ran, one in London and one in Surrey. When George was baptised in Surrey in 1797 it said Joe was a victualer Westiminster poll books 1806 Joseph Beavitt, Russell place, Parish St Martin in the fields, Victualler vote Sheridan and Paull. on the london pub website I found Russell St Harp, 30 & 31 Russell Street, Martins in Fields Russell place brings up a different location. Karen

Barbara: Is it possible they arrived in New York rather than Canada? It was not at all uncommon for those destined for Canada (especially Quebec and Ontario) to come through New York. Just a thought. Glenys -- Glenys www.quietacre.net My g-grandfather William Bond was with the Royal Artillery until his discharge in January 1890 at the age of 46. Upon his discharge, he moved his family to the St. George of the East area of London. Civilian life obviously did not agree with my great grandfather. I've found both him and the children in the Raine Street workhouse and infirmary in 1890 and 1891 and the children attended the Plashet school throughout 1891 (St George of the East). William appears to have finally discharged himself from the workhouse and gotten a job as a night watchman by 1892 but in August 1893, towards the end of a weeklong drunk, he swallowed some smelling salts and died of corrosive poisoning, leaving my great grandmother Jessie Bond with four young children, Laura aged 11, Thomas age 9, Frances age 6 and John age 3. By October of 1894, the Bond family was living in Montreal, Quebec, Canada. So far, I've been unable to locate the family in either the outbound passenger records from the UK or in the inbound passenger records in Canada between August 1893 and October 1894. I'm assuming that as a young widow with four young children and no money, my great grandmother must have been assisted with her emigration to Canada and am hoping that someone may have knowledge of what agency or group might have sponsored such an emigration from London to Canada at that time. Barbara J Starmans Richmond Hill, ON, Canada website: http://www.bjstarmans.com blog: http://outofmytree.wordpress.com/

I think that is quite likely too. In those days women were known by their husband's name entirely example Mrs John Smith Also this was a acomplicated announcement with the bride's mother etc so dropping Mr and Mrs from the wording many have dropped the cost .... Ron Lankshear -Sydney NSW (from London-Shepherds Bush/Chiswick) try my links http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lankshear/ On 2011-05-23 2:47 AM, Dorri Roughley wrote: > Have you checked the 1911 census to see a) if father is still alive and b) who is living with him. Also the 1901 census. Women were treated as the man's property - I have a document that required the husband signiture if the wife wanted to cash in HER assurance bond. > > I wouldn't be surprised if she is alive and the bride's mother was only mentioned because her husband was dead. > > Dorri >

Hi Nick, I think Dorri is on the right track. I have a few Parish reg Marriage entries, and GRO certificates for that time frame from London, Middlesex etc, and the Mothers name is not include on any of them Bride or Groom. Yours in Genealogy, Jan, in sunny QLD, Australia -------------------------------------------------------> > I wouldn't be surprised if she is alive and the bride's mother was only > mentioned because her husband was dead. > > Dorri ---------------------------------> original message::;; >> > Hello, >> > The wedding took place in London in 1908, but that is the only >> > connection >> > my question has with. the area. The printed announcements show the name >> > of the groom`s father but not his mother`s, and the bride`s late >> > father`s >> > and her still living mother`s. >> > Does the absence of the groom`s mother``s name indicate something. If >> > she >> > was divorced from the father, would this be a reason for excuding her >> > name, >> > or could her name have been excuded because she was already dead. I >> > have >> > three separate announcements from three different sources and the >> > groom`s >> > mother is excluded in each case so it obviously was not a typo error... >> > Thanks, >> > Nick

Barbara, As the father was in the Raine Street workhouse and the children at Plashet, the family will already have been in the care of the Stepney Board of Guardians. The Stepney Guardians may well have arranged the emigration to Canada, even if they did not actually pay for it. The starting-point for a search would therefore be the poor law records for Stepney. Even if there are no separate registers, candidates for emigration will have been discussed in Board meetings. Their names may be recorded in the Board minutes, perhaps (if you're lucky) with details of travel and costs. Records of the Stepney Board of Guardians are held at London Metropolitan Archives, which offers a fee-based research service, or you could engage an independent researcher (almost certainly cheaper). HTH Judy London, UK -----Original Message----- From: london-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:london-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Barbara J Starmans My g-grandfather William Bond was with the Royal Artillery until his discharge in January 1890 at the age of 46. Upon his discharge, he moved his family to the St. George of the East area of London. Civilian life obviously did not agree with my great grandfather. I've found both him and the children in the Raine Street workhouse and infirmary in 1890 and 1891 and the children attended the Plashet school throughout 1891 (St George of the East). William appears to have finally discharged himself from the workhouse and gotten a job as a night watchman by 1892 but in August 1893, towards the end of a weeklong drunk, he swallowed some smelling salts and died of corrosive poisoning, leaving my great grandmother Jessie Bond with four young children, Laura aged 11, Thomas age 9, Frances age 6 and John age 3. By October of 1894, the Bond family was living in Montreal, Quebec, Canada. So far, I've been unable to locate the family in either the outbound passenger records from the UK or in the inbound passenger records in Canada between August 1893 and October 1894. I'm assuming that as a young widow with four young children and no money, my great grandmother must have been assisted with her emigration to Canada and am hoping that someone may have knowledge of what agency or group might have sponsored such an emigration from London to Canada at that time. Barbara J Starmans Richmond Hill, ON, Canada website: http://www.bjstarmans.com blog: http://outofmytree.wordpress.com/