Since 1965 this area covers bow bromley poplar whitechapel stepnney isle of dogs waping ratcliff parts of hackney but the area called east london is in the main doclands whitechapel and wappingt and poplar it does not include shoreditch thats hackney and is in north london or its post mark is it is due to change soon and will be known as east side when the nerw thames gateway gets started aldgate and the minorries are also under the tower hamlets as is the tower of london and limehouse the heart of the east end was considered CHRIST CHURCH  SPITALFIELDS, lord WENTWORTH was the first lay lord of the area of stepney WENTWORTH STREET off of peticoat lane is named after him BETHNAL GREEN isalso part of tower hamlets it was all once in the old historic county of middlesex but in 1965 weith the advent of therGLC HACKNEY LOST VICTORIA PARK TO BETHNAL GREEN and the two hams east ham and west ham once part of essex were put together to form newhamwaltham forest is walthamstow and leyton and leytonsdtone way as is whipps cross if you cross the thames you will be in south london either surrey or kernt they are now in soth london. the beast end area now goesout to wanstead in old essex right through to rural romford  so I GUESS IT includes dagenham and barking and hainault where I was yesterday for the first time in forty yeasrs and while I never met one old freind I  did enjoy myself in my past  the pie andmash we had in barkingsdide was brilliant  

Hi Chris I don't know if this will help you but, as a starter, if you haven't tried this already, you could go to FreeBMD and ask for all the births in Shoreditch in the March 1853 quarter (don’t enter a name but if it says there are too many records just put in William as a first name. Amongst these are several William Johns. Now it may be that he was registered under a different surname, ie his mothers if he was illegitimate? But if he is not there I doubt that looking up the individual records will help. I am looking for someone who told the Royal Marines that he was born at a certain time as well and I can’t find him either so I have assumed that he lied? Regards Peter -----Original Message----- From: london-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:london-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Chris Gilham Sent: 20 September 2011 05:53 To: london@rootsweb.com Subject: [LON] Can I Find Who Was Born On A Certain Day?‏ Dear Listers I have been searching for my great grandfather (William John Hogg) for around 15 years and might, at long last, have found a lead. I have found a William John Hogg in the TNA navy site, who stated on his enlistment papers that he was born 5 Jan 1853 in Shoreditch, Middlesex. His mother was with him and signed her agreement. It all matched up – but I couldn’t find a William John Hogg born in that quarter in the records (Ancestry or Free BMD). If the date of birth is correct, and I think it may be, is there a way I can discover who was born on that day in the UK, so that I can see whether he was born under another name? Any suggestions/help/observations would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks. Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3906 - Release Date: 09/19/11

Hi Chris Just to be clear, I mean order a birth cert for a William OR John OR William John *HOGG* with a mothers name XXXX in the first quarter of 1853 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > What I would suggest is to order a birth certificate from the GRO *without any index reference* > stating William OR John OR William John with a mothers name XXXX in the first quarter of 1853 > > If the search is successful they will supply a certificate, if there is no matching registration > they will not charge you > (either forename may have been added after registration) > > They could not search on just forenames

Hi Nivard, Thank you that John is mine and I do have those details from Ancestry, but can't find his birth as I am trying to find his father, I know his mother was Mary, but not the one who died on the 11 Dec 1800. My Mary LAPORT was a housekeeper for Henry FARRER and already had her son John with her. She then went on to have other children with Henry but as he already had a living wife in Yorkshire (who outlived them both) couldnt marry him. I have both Henry and Mary's wills. He died in 1800 and she died in 1806, but by then called herself Mary Farrer. I am trying to find more info on her. thanks, Maureen in Oz. On 19/09/2011, at 10:02 PM, Nivard Ovington wrote: Hi Maureen I take it you have this entry Name: John Laport Record Type: Burial Estimated Death Date: abt 1824 Burial Date: 27 Jan 1824 Age: 48 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1776 Parish or Poor Law Union: St Botolph without Bishopsgate Borough: City of London County: London abode 10 (or 18?) Red Lion Street Spitalfields and? Name: George Laport Burial Date: 28 Mar 1802 Parish: Christ Church, Spitalfields County: Middlesex Borough: Tower Hamlets Record Type: Burial abode Red Lion Street age 24 Name: Mary Laport Burial Date: 11 Dec 1800 Parish: Christ Church, Spitalfields County: Middlesex Borough: Tower Hamlets Record Type: Burial abode ..Market ... age 32 I notice there are several DE LAPORT & DELAPORT in Spitalfields I would suggest if you can get access to Ancestry to have a trawl through the registers as there may be something around the period, perhaps misspelled or mangled in transcription Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hi Listers, > > I have a John Laport b. 1776 with his mother being Mary Laport, no record of father. Is there anyway I could find where he was born. > They lived in Spitalfields. > Thanks, > Maureen in Oz,

Hi Chris Firstly, what was his mothers name? And was there mention of an address? Date of birth was not often recorded on baptisms , the only John or William HOGG I could see in the period was born March 31st 1853 The date of birth is not indexed in the birth registrations although is recorded as given by the informant What I would suggest is to order a birth certificate from the GRO *without any index reference* stating William OR John OR William John with a mothers name XXXX in the first quarter of 1853 If the search is successful they will supply a certificate, if there is no matching registration they will not charge you (either forename may have been added after registration) They could not search on just forenames I take it your man is the one on a ship in the 1871 census ? (ship unknown) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > I have been searching for my great grandfather (William John > Hogg) for around 15 years and might, at long last, have found a lead. I have found a William John > Hogg in the TNA > navy site, who stated on his enlistment papers that he was born 5 Jan 1853 in > Shoreditch, Middlesex. His mother was with him and signed her agreement. It all > matched up – but I couldn’t find a William John Hogg born in that quarter in > the records (Ancestry or Free BMD). If the date of birth is correct, and I think it may be, is > there a > way I can discover who was born on that day in the UK, so that I can see whether he was born under > another name? > > Any suggestions/help/observations would be greatly appreciated. > Many thanks. > Chris

Hi Bev You are perfectly entitled to be confused about London place names. The socio-geographical history of "London" is extremely complex and at different times involved (and still involves) different administrative units for different purposes. Sometimes names are shared between different kinds of units, sometimes they vary. Poplar was a hamlet within the ancient parish of Stepney, then a parish (both ecclesiastical and civil) in its own right, and gave its name to a Poor Law Union and a Registration District. The boundaries of these units were not necessarily coterminous, but as a general rule of thumb, Poplar lies south of Bromley and east of Limehouse and includes the West India Docks, the Isle of Dogs, Millwall and Blackwall. East Smithfield is both a road and (in the past) the area around that road (just to the east of the Tower). The latter usage had largely faded from common use by the 19th century. St Botolph without Aldgate is a church whose parish lies partly within the City and partly without. The latter section includes the area of East Smithfield. Tower Hamlets is a name used originally for the large hinterland to the east of the Tower of London. It became a parliamentary borough in 1832 and a London Borough in 1965. It is purely an administrative unit, whose status and boundaries are incredibly complex. Luckily, this need not worry genealogists too much, as it is not a "place" where people are likely to have declared as their place of birth or residence. The inestimable John Henley has done a wonderful job of summarising the situation at http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/Stepney/churches.htm. Does any of this help? Caroline > > > > Am confused about London districts.Someone says Poplar, mine are in > East Smithfield. Some BMDs are in St. Botolph without Aldgate? Search > Tower Hamlets says another. I know my great-great grandfather Robert > Hensher married in St. Annes Limehouse in1835. Please help someone. > What dates are areas used and is there a map which will sort me out!!! > > Thanks > Bev > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest > list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . > Check for matching interests and add your own ! > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

Chris It is quite possible that his birth was never registered at all. Prior to 1875 -ish the onus was on the Registrar to "discover" births and register them. The parents did not suffer any penalty at that time if they failed to advise the registrar of a birth. Adrian Yorkshire ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Gilham" <chrisgilham@hotmail.com> To: <london@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 5:52 AM Subject: [LON] Can I Find Who Was Born On A Certain Day?‏ > > Dear Listers > > > > I have been searching for my great grandfather (William John > Hogg) for around 15 years and might, at long last, have found a lead. I > have found a William John Hogg in the TNA > navy site, who stated on his enlistment papers that he was born 5 Jan 1853 > in > Shoreditch, Middlesex. His mother was with him and signed her agreement. > It all > matched up – but I couldn’t find a William John Hogg born in that quarter > in > the records (Ancestry or Free BMD). If the date of birth is correct, and I > think it may be, is there a > way I can discover who was born on that day in the UK, so that I can see > whether he was born under another name? > > Any suggestions/help/observations would be greatly appreciated. > Many thanks. > Chris

Dear Listers I have been searching for my great grandfather (William John Hogg) for around 15 years and might, at long last, have found a lead. I have found a William John Hogg in the TNA navy site, who stated on his enlistment papers that he was born 5 Jan 1853 in Shoreditch, Middlesex. His mother was with him and signed her agreement. It all matched up – but I couldn’t find a William John Hogg born in that quarter in the records (Ancestry or Free BMD). If the date of birth is correct, and I think it may be, is there a way I can discover who was born on that day in the UK, so that I can see whether he was born under another name? Any suggestions/help/observations would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks. Chris

On 2011/09/19 23:30, B Robertson wrote: > Am confused about London districts.Someone says Poplar, mine are in East > Smithfield. Some BMDs are in St. Botolph without Aldgate? Search Tower > Hamlets says another. I know my great-great grandfather Robert Hensher > married in St. Annes Limehouse in1835. Please help someone. What dates are > areas used and is there a map which will sort me out!!! I'm not surprised that people unused to the geography of East London become very confused over where various names are in relation to each other. Unfortunately, nowhere is very far from anywhere else in the East End. The original City of London only occupied a square mile. Poplar and the Isle of Dogs are synonymous. As are Wapping and Limehouse. A lot of the confusion comes from the use of parish names as places of birth. You see this a lot in the 1841 census. Tower Hamlets is, as the name should suggest, the collection of (original) hamlets outside of the Tower of London. Primarily, this covers the modern areas of Hackney, Shoreditch, Poplar, Stepney and Bethnal Green. Multiple parishes! I make use of Google and Wikipedia to query the names of various churches (your St Annes in Limehouse for example) and from the information returned, am generally able to locate the extant churches on maps. Even when the church no longer exists, it is usually possible to work out where it was. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

Hi Listers, I have a John Laport b. 1776 with his mother being Mary Laport, no record of father. Is there anyway I could find where he was born. They lived in Spitalfields. Thanks, Maureen in Oz, Sent from my iPad Maureen Farrer

G'day Chris, Your Isaac seems to be a problem or perhaps a little more info could help. An Isaac DARK bapt 31 Oct 1824 to those parents appears to have been buried at Hammersmith on 31 Dec 1824. There were a few DARKs at Hammersmith but I found no other children to Isaac and Ann, or burials for them at Hammersmith. Did an Isaac come to Oz? Bill I. Melbourne, Oz On 19/09/2011 10:45 AM, Goldstraw wrote: > Hi all, > > I am wondering if sks can lookup the 1841 census for me please. I am looking > for an Isaac Dark s/o Isaac and Ann Dark. Isaac was born Hammersmith, London > 1824. I was wondering if he had any siblings. > > Many thanks for your help, > Cheers Chris > Aus > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Am confused about London districts.Someone says Poplar, mine are in East Smithfield. Some BMDs are in St. Botolph without Aldgate? Search Tower Hamlets says another. I know my great-great grandfather Robert Hensher married in St. Annes Limehouse in1835. Please help someone. What dates are areas used and is there a map which will sort me out!!! Thanks Bev

Hi Maureen I take it you have this entry Name: John Laport Record Type: Burial Estimated Death Date: abt 1824 Burial Date: 27 Jan 1824 Age: 48 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1776 Parish or Poor Law Union: St Botolph without Bishopsgate Borough: City of London County: London abode 10 (or 18?) Red Lion Street Spitalfields and? Name: George Laport Burial Date: 28 Mar 1802 Parish: Christ Church, Spitalfields County: Middlesex Borough: Tower Hamlets Record Type: Burial abode Red Lion Street age 24 Name: Mary Laport Burial Date: 11 Dec 1800 Parish: Christ Church, Spitalfields County: Middlesex Borough: Tower Hamlets Record Type: Burial abode ..Market ... age 32 I notice there are several DE LAPORT & DELAPORT in Spitalfields I would suggest if you can get access to Ancestry to have a trawl through the registers as there may be something around the period, perhaps misspelled or mangled in transcription Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hi Listers, > > I have a John Laport b. 1776 with his mother being Mary Laport, no record of father. Is there > anyway I could find where he was born. > They lived in Spitalfields. > Thanks, > Maureen in Oz,

Hi all, I am wondering if sks can lookup the 1841 census for me please. I am looking for an Isaac Dark s/o Isaac and Ann Dark. Isaac was born Hammersmith, London 1824. I was wondering if he had any siblings. Many thanks for your help, Cheers Chris Aus

I note Torrington's in Cheshire and Devon William burial cost 15/4d and was 10 May 1848 living Golden Lane and age 55 years. Presumably your man and if age correct born May 1792 to May 1793 On old IGI http://www.familysearch.org there is WILLIAM TORRINGTON Christening: 17 AUG 1792 North Molton, Devon, England Father: WILLIAM TORRINGTON Mother: ELIZABETH Possibly their marriage BETTY HOW Marriage: 13 MAY 1792 North Molton, Devon, England I'd suggest have a close look at Devon - what happens to this William - does he stay in Devon Perhaps a will for the father above Ron Lankshear -Sydney NSW (from London-Shepherds Bush/Chiswick) try my links http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lankshear/

Hello John and Ann, Thanks for the replies, very helpful inasmuch as I am satisfied the Isabella at the address is not the one I am chasing as she had no need to work, her husband being not short of a penny or two. I had wondered whether it was a hospital but I now know different. I shall pursue the others with the same Christian name. Thanks again, Rod.

I am enquiring on behalf of a friend who has been trying for some years to find the origins of her ancestor William Torrington born about 1793. On the 1841 census he was living in Golden Lane Cripplegate and it indicates that neither he or his wife were born in the county. His wife Sophia (nee Baxter) died at the end of 1841 and we have found that she appears to have originated from Manchester. However, she had been married (1817 to a William Boyden) and widowed (1821) in London before marrying William Torrington. Unfortunately we have been unable to find a marriage for them or the baptism of the elder son also named William born about 1824/5. The next child was baptised in 1829 and the later three at a group baptism in 1837, although they had been born in the early 1830s. The address given for all four of these baptisms was Denmark Court, Barbican so they must have moved to Cripplegate after that. William's occupation was a brazier or tin man but as he died in 1848 my friend did not have the benefit of finding William's birthplace on the 1851 census. We have explored many alternative ways of trying to find more on him, such as looking at the witnesses at the marriages of his children but none of these appear to have links to the Torrington side of the family. If anyone has any ideas of other ways of finding more information that might lead to discovering William Torrington's birthplace we would be very grateful. Kind regards Margaret

1856 Kellys says St Luke's Warehouse was on City Rd at Shepherdess Walk Looking at 1862 map I see Edward St ran behind St Luke's off Shepherdess Walk Wharf Rd went back to City Road from west end of Edward St. Wharf is only place I can see on modern map..... Ron Lankshear -Sydney NSW (from London-Shepherds Bush/Chiswick) try my links http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lankshear/ On 2011-09-18 12:20 PM, Sandra Van Able wrote: > According to the 1851 London map, there is a workhouse between Edward Street and City Road. Was this City Road Workhouse in 1825? Are there any birth records from this time? Did it become St Luke's Workhouse? > Thanking you advance, > Sandra

Hi Eileen, There's a likely looking will for that William Lake on TNA's Documents Online: Will of William Lake of Oakingham, Berkshire Date: 22 February 1722 Catalogue reference: PROB 11/583 The date is when the will was proved, so it's possible he could have died years before then (ie, before Sarah married Thomas Joyner), and Wokingham was at some time known as Oakingham. It may or may not help establish whether he was married to Sarah Lowden, but might be worth a punt. Cheers, Katherine On 18/09/2011 7:00 AM, eileen/pat wrote: > I have a 6th Gt Grandmother named Sarah nee Lowden who at some point > in her life married a Mr Lake with whom she had children, followed > by a marriage to Thomas Joyner in 1717 in St. James Westminster and > she died in Sunning in Berkshire in 1745. I have Sarah's (Joyner) > Will which mentions son Henry Lake and his 3 children and her > daughter Ann's 2 orphan children, plus a brother Thomas Lowden and a > sister Mary Pitt. On the IGI I have found a family of children with > the parents Sarah and William Lake all baptised/born in Wokingham > Berkshire between 1679 and 1692 including a Henry and an Ann. However > I cannot find a birth or marriage for Sarah Lowden so cannot tell if > this family is hers although it would seem to agree with the fact

Rod, It is the residence of the VANE family, those listed being four children of Charles Vane, 3rd Marquess of Londonderry, by his second wife. They have umpteen servants, of whom Isabella Nelson was one. Please post again if you have difficulty in finding more data about the VANE family, but it should be well documented. Best wishes, John Townsend Antiquarian Bookseller/Genealogist http://www.johntownsend.demon.co.uk