Yes Stephanie that is true. But the boundaries of 'London' have changed over the years and what was once in the County of Kent ( deptford) is now withing Greater London. Very confusing I'm afraid. :-)) Anne On 21 Sep 2011, at 17:05, Stephanie Ray wrote: > I am from the US (and blonde to boot ;-) but didn't the marriage > record say PARISH CHURCH IN THE PARISH OF ST.PAUL, DEPTFORD IN THE > COUNTIES OF KENT, which would not be on Deptford High Street LONDON?! > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Anne Peat <anne.peat@bigwindows.demon.co.uk> > Date: Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 11:56 PM > Subject: Re: [LON] ST.PAUL > To: Frank Green <letellierfg@hotmail.com> > Cc: london-l@rootsweb.com > > > yes, Frank it is > The parish website doesn't seem to have anything on it at the moment but look at > http://www.achurchnearyou.com/deptford-st-paul/ > > and > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Paul's,_Deptford > > HTH > Anne > On 20 Sep 2011, at 21:55, Frank Green wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> Hello Listers. I'm new.My GGrandparent's Marriage Certificate dated November 19,1850 shows that the marriage took place in the PARISH CHURCH IN THE PARISH OF ST.PAUL, DEPTFORD IN THE COUNTIES OF KENT & - ? Can you tell me if that is the beautiful old church of St.Paul located on Deptford High Street London. Many thanks Frank, MANITOBA >

Hi Nick There are lockers which should take a standard flight bag, provided it doesn't have too many bulges. If the bag is lockable, and won't fit into a locker, there are chains available to slot through the handle with a lock and key you can take with you. You should be aware that they are very fussy about what you can and can't take into the reading rooms - only pencils, no erasers, and papers stapled together and in a transparent container - they will give you a plastic bag if you need one. If you haven't yet got a Reader's Ticket, you can order one in advance on line which will cut down the waiting time when you arrive at Kew. Have a great time! I hope you find everything you are seeking. Regards Ruth > From: wilsonnicholas90@gmail.com > To: LONDON@rootsweb.com > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:38:17 -0700 > Subject: [LON] National Archives cloakroom facilities > > Hello, > > I am looking forward to my first visit to Kew next month, but have a slight problem. I am planning to go straight there from Heathrow and will have a regular (20x14x8 inches) sized piece of carry on luggage with me ( to save my having to plod into central London to drop it off at my hotel and back west again). I have checked with NA and they confirm they do have lockers, but can sks tell me their approximate dimensions. I know the alternative is leaving the bag at Heathrow but my time is not that valuable! > > Many thanks, > > Nick, > > Richmond, B.C., Canada > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Maybe one day the GRO/BMD index will be ugraded to contain the data is currently only the pay to obtain certificates.. It was started but project failed.... In meantime NO....... of course there are baptism registers but not many have birth date included.... Om meantime for those looking for HOGG family. He can be found in 1881 1891 and 1901 with wife Annie..... as Walter or William or John W He joined up in 1868 and it seems jumped ship in 1875 so is overseas for 1871 census.... Chris is on iPhone and having trouble posting to list I've suggested a William in 1861 born Shanghai China Presumably why his birth not appearing and I expect he avoided saying China in later census as he was avoiding the authorities hence fore names change also But of course supposition. Can anyone find the China man parents William and Eliza in 1871 census - I see them in 1881 Ron Lankshear -Sydney NSW (from London-Shepherds Bush/Chiswick) try my links http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lankshear/ On 2011-09-21 7:28 AM, Sally Finnila-Sloane wrote: > That's an excellent question --- is there a data base available that > lists who was born on any given date country or county wide? What a > boon that would be to genealogical research! > > Sally Finnila-Sloane

This is a William Henry Jenner HOGG Registered at the Shanghai Consulate He married in London in 1877 Name: William Henry Jenner Hogg Age: Full Age Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877 Spouse Name: Mary Elizabeth Dummett Record Type: Marriage Marriage Date: 04 Jun 1877 Parish: Christ Church, Lancaster Gate County: Middlesex Borough: Westminster Father Name: William Hogg Spouse Father Name: Jeremiah Dummett Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) Hello Nivard Ron found and sent these details, off-line, I've cut and pasted, so they've moved about a bit! Sounds like you have Ancestry if so it could be this is him William H J Hogg William, Eliza S abt 1852 Shanghae British Subject, China Son Paddington, Middlesex RG9; Piece: 6; Folio: 20; Page: 44 mother right name Name possible He mentioned it in his email to the list. Thank you for your other suggestion - I shall cast my net further. I have downloaded the records from the TNA - thank you. It shows his two ships after the training ship HMS Fisgard - Clio and Sandfly, and finishes on 6 January 1875 with the words 'RUN Sydney'. Looking at the Victorian Gazette he wasn't alone in 'Running' when they arrived in Australia!! Thanks again. Chris

Hi again Just an addition to my last suggestion, as has been rightly pointed out the age given on joining the forces may have been manipulated Less likely as he joined up and gained his mothers permission to do so But in the event the first search does not find a matching event , it would be worthwhile to try again for 1854 The date / month is far more likely to be correct Did you download the two pages for his Naval record ? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) PS I did not see a connection to China, what was that ? > Apologies for not replying to your responses yesterday - I tried whilst at work using the email on > my phone, but decided that I didn't really understand how it worked!!! Which is how I managed to > contact Ron on his home email address. > > Firstly, many thanks to all who replied with help and suggestions. I now have a few more 'family > roads' to travel down; as Adrian pointed out, it is perfectly possible that William wasn't > registered at birth, but in case he was, I have looked at BMD and entered his forenames; first > quarter of 1853 and Shoreditch, which produced around half a dozen possibilities (thank you > Peter). I looked also under his mother's maiden name (which I thought was Eliza Matthews - > assuming that he is part of the family I have found), in case he was illegitimate, but that gave > me a zero result. But 'nothing' is very useful when it comes to narrowing down the possibilities. > To check whether he was registered (or not) I will do as Nivard suggested, and send for a > certificate without the reference index. And Jon, in 1861 the father of the possible family > appeared to be living apart from his wife and I couldn't find the rest of the family. Nivard > found him on board a ship in 1871 (possibly HMS Fi! > sgard?), and Ron has now suggested a connection with China which is not something I'd even > considered! Thank you Fee for your search too, the estimated DOB is three years different (from > 1853) and his mother is Betsy (Elizabeth) so it is a possibility - I may have the date of birth > wrong, as he may have lied on his enlistment paper. As I mentioned to Ron when I contacted him > inadvertently off list, my G grandfather was obviously on the run from something - he died in 1907 > when his dray (he was a brewers drayman) accidentally ran him over; so from his death certificate > I believe that I know the closet thing to the truth about him - his name was William and he was 54 > when he died - probably! > > It certainly is a 'tangled web', and I thank you all for your on-line 'brainstorming' - I now have > other areas of research. > > Kind regards, > > Chris

Hello Nivard Ron found and sent these details, off-line, I've cut and pasted, so they've moved about a bit! Sounds like you have Ancestry if so it could be this is him William H J Hogg William, Eliza S abt 1852 Shanghae British Subject, China Son Paddington, Middlesex RG9; Piece: 6; Folio: 20; Page: 44 mother right name Name possible He mentioned it in his email to the list. Thank you for your other suggestion - I shall cast my net further. I have downloaded the records from the TNA - thank you. It shows his two ships after the training ship HMS Fisgard - Clio and Sandfly, and finishes on 6 January 1875 with the words 'RUN Sydney'. Looking at the Victorian Gazette he wasn't alone in 'Running' when they arrived in Australia!! Thanks again. Chris > From: ovington1@sky.com > To: chrisgilham@hotmail.com; london@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [LON] Can I Find Who Was Born On A Certain Day??þ > Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 11:18:53 +0100 > > Hi again > > Just an addition to my last suggestion, as has been rightly pointed out the age given on joining the > forces may have been manipulated > > Less likely as he joined up and gained his mothers permission to do so > > But in the event the first search does not find a matching event , it would be worthwhile to try > again for 1854 > > The date / month is far more likely to be correct > > Did you download the two pages for his Naval record ? > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > PS I did not see a connection to China, what was that ? > > > > > Apologies for not replying to your responses yesterday - I tried whilst at work using the email on > > my phone, but decided that I didn't really understand how it worked!!! Which is how I managed to > > contact Ron on his home email address. > > > > Firstly, many thanks to all who replied with help and suggestions. I now have a few more 'family > > roads' to travel down; as Adrian pointed out, it is perfectly possible that William wasn't > > registered at birth, but in case he was, I have looked at BMD and entered his forenames; first > > quarter of 1853 and Shoreditch, which produced around half a dozen possibilities (thank you > > Peter). I looked also under his mother's maiden name (which I thought was Eliza Matthews - > > assuming that he is part of the family I have found), in case he was illegitimate, but that gave > > me a zero result. But 'nothing' is very useful when it comes to narrowing down the possibilities. > > To check whether he was registered (or not) I will do as Nivard suggested, and send for a > > certificate without the reference index. And Jon, in 1861 the father of the possible family > > appeared to be living apart from his wife and I couldn't find the rest of the family. Nivard > > found him on board a ship in 1871 (possibly HMS Fi! > > sgard?), and Ron has now suggested a connection with China which is not something I'd even > > considered! Thank you Fee for your search too, the estimated DOB is three years different (from > > 1853) and his mother is Betsy (Elizabeth) so it is a possibility - I may have the date of birth > > wrong, as he may have lied on his enlistment paper. As I mentioned to Ron when I contacted him > > inadvertently off list, my G grandfather was obviously on the run from something - he died in 1907 > > when his dray (he was a brewers drayman) accidentally ran him over; so from his death certificate > > I believe that I know the closet thing to the truth about him - his name was William and he was 54 > > when he died - probably! > > > > It certainly is a 'tangled web', and I thank you all for your on-line 'brainstorming' - I now have > > other areas of research. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Chris >

Thank you very much Anne, I am delighted to receive that information. Frank

Hello Listers Apologies for not replying to your responses yesterday - I tried whilst at work using the email on my phone, but decided that I didn't really understand how it worked!!! Which is how I managed to contact Ron on his home email address. Firstly, many thanks to all who replied with help and suggestions. I now have a few more 'family roads' to travel down; as Adrian pointed out, it is perfectly possible that William wasn't registered at birth, but in case he was, I have looked at BMD and entered his forenames; first quarter of 1853 and Shoreditch, which produced around half a dozen possibilities (thank you Peter). I looked also under his mother's maiden name (which I thought was Eliza Matthews - assuming that he is part of the family I have found), in case he was illegitimate, but that gave me a zero result. But 'nothing' is very useful when it comes to narrowing down the possibilities. To check whether he was registered (or not) I will do as Nivard suggested, and send for a certificate without the reference index. And Jon, in 1861 the father of the possible family appeared to be living apart from his wife and I couldn't find the rest of the family. Nivard found him on board a ship in 1871 (possibly HMS Fi! sgard?), and Ron has now suggested a connection with China which is not something I'd even considered! Thank you Fee for your search too, the estimated DOB is three years different (from 1853) and his mother is Betsy (Elizabeth) so it is a possibility - I may have the date of birth wrong, as he may have lied on his enlistment paper. As I mentioned to Ron when I contacted him inadvertently off list, my G grandfather was obviously on the run from something - he died in 1907 when his dray (he was a brewers drayman) accidentally ran him over; so from his death certificate I believe that I know the closet thing to the truth about him - his name was William and he was 54 when he died - probably! It certainly is a 'tangled web', and I thank you all for your on-line 'brainstorming' - I now have other areas of research. Kind regards, Chris

I am from the US (and blonde to boot ;-) but didn't the marriage record say PARISH CHURCH IN THE PARISH OF ST.PAUL, DEPTFORD IN THE COUNTIES OF KENT, which would not be on Deptford High Street LONDON?! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Anne Peat <anne.peat@bigwindows.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 11:56 PM Subject: Re: [LON] ST.PAUL To: Frank Green <letellierfg@hotmail.com> Cc: london-l@rootsweb.com yes, Frank it is The parish website doesn't seem to have anything on it at the moment but look at http://www.achurchnearyou.com/deptford-st-paul/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Paul's,_Deptford HTH Anne On 20 Sep 2011, at 21:55, Frank Green wrote: > > > > > Hello Listers. I'm new.My GGrandparent's Marriage Certificate dated November 19,1850 shows that the marriage took place in the PARISH CHURCH IN THE PARISH OF ST.PAUL, DEPTFORD IN THE COUNTIES OF KENT &  - ?      Can you tell me if that is the beautiful old church of St.Paul located on Deptford High Street London.  Many thanks    Frank, MANITOBA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Ron I don't think the DOVE project ever envisaged making the date of birth searchable in the index It was mainly age at death pre 1866, mothers maiden name on births pre 1911 and both partners names in the marriages pre 1912 But it slipped quietly beneath the waves a few years back (2007 or 8?) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Maybe one day the GRO/BMD index will be ugraded to > contain the data is currently only the pay to > obtain certificates.. It was started but project > failed.... > > In meantime NO.......

yes, Frank it is The parish website doesn't seem to have anything on it at the moment but look at http://www.achurchnearyou.com/deptford-st-paul/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Paul's,_Deptford HTH Anne On 20 Sep 2011, at 21:55, Frank Green wrote: > > > > > Hello Listers. I'm new.My GGrandparent's Marriage Certificate dated November 19,1850 shows that the marriage took place in the PARISH CHURCH IN THE PARISH OF ST.PAUL, DEPTFORD IN THE COUNTIES OF KENT & - ? Can you tell me if that is the beautiful old church of St.Paul located on Deptford High Street London. Many thanks Frank, MANITOBA

From: Fee Manley Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 10:46 AM To: Chris Gilham ; london@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LON]Can I Find Who Was Born On A Certain Day?‏ There is a William J HOGG in the 1871 census whose birthplace is given as Shoreditch, born c. 1856. Name: William J Hogg Age: 15 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856 Relation: Son Father's Name: William J Hogg Mother's Name: Betsy M Hogg Gender: Male Where born: Shoreditch, London, England Civil parish: St Paul Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul County/Island: Bedfordshire Country: England Registration district: Bedford Sub-registration district: Bedford and Cardington ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Household schedule number: 50 Piece: 1544 Folio: 61 Page Number: 11 >>>>>>>>> Hi Chris, Further to the 1871 census entry that was found earlier (above): William Johnson Hogg and Betsy Maria Ling were married at Shoreditch in the January-March qtr of 1855. then the birth of a William Johnson Hogg was made in Shoreditch in the April-June quarter of 1856. If this is the correct William Johnson (or John) Hogg, could it possibly be that he gave the wrong age so that he could join the Navy? It certainly wouldn't be an isolated incident if that is what happened, it happened a great deal. Just something to ponder on? Kind regards, Jon

That's an excellent question --- is there a data base available that lists who was born on any given date country or county wide? What a boon that would be to genealogical research! Sally Finnila-Sloane On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Jon's FH wrote: > From: Fee Manley Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 10:46 AM > To: Chris Gilham ; london@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LON]Can I Find > Who Was Born On A Certain Day?‏ > > > There is a William J HOGG in the 1871 census whose birthplace is > given as Shoreditch, born c. 1856. > > Name: William J Hogg > Age: 15 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856 > Relation: Son > Father's Name: William J Hogg > Mother's Name: Betsy M Hogg > Gender: Male > Where born: Shoreditch, London, England > Civil parish: St Paul > Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul > County/Island: Bedfordshire > Country: England > Registration district: Bedford > Sub-registration district: Bedford and Cardington > ED, institution, or vessel: 9 > Household schedule number: 50 > Piece: 1544 > Folio: 61 > Page Number: 11 > >>>>>>>>>> > > Hi Chris, > > Further to the 1871 census entry that was found earlier (above): > William Johnson Hogg and Betsy Maria Ling were married at Shoreditch > in the January-March qtr of 1855. > then the birth of a William Johnson Hogg was made in Shoreditch in the > April-June quarter of 1856. > > If this is the correct William Johnson (or John) Hogg, could it > possibly be that he gave the wrong age so that he could join the Navy? > It certainly wouldn't be an isolated incident if that is what > happened, it happened a great deal. > Just something to ponder on? > > Kind regards, > > Jon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest > list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . > Check for matching interests and add your own ! > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In short NO..... Ancestry LMA baptism have a search field Birth but it appears to search the baptism date. The birth date is sometimes in the baptism image but not always...... The GRO?BMD index only contains registration quarter. You have to buy the cert for the birth daye.... WHat else do you know about him? Mother? Father? Have you found him in census? Ron Lankshear -Sydney NSW (from London-Shepherds Bush/Chiswick) try my links http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lankshear/ On 2011-09-20 2:52 PM, Chris Gilham wrote: > I have been searching for my great grandfather (William John > Hogg) for around 15 years and might, at long last, have found a lead. I have found a William John Hogg in the TNA > navy site, who stated on his enlistment papers that he was born 5 Jan 1853 in > Shoreditch, Middlesex. His mother was with him and signed her agreement. It all > matched up – but I couldn’t find a William John Hogg born in that quarter in > the records (Ancestry or Free BMD). If the date of birth is correct, and I think it may be, is there a > way I can discover who was born on that day in the UK, so that I can see whether he was born under another name? > > Any suggestions/help/observations would be greatly appreciated. > Many thanks. > Chris

Hello Listers. I'm new.My GGrandparent's Marriage Certificate dated November 19,1850 shows that the marriage took place in the PARISH CHURCH IN THE PARISH OF ST.PAUL, DEPTFORD IN THE COUNTIES OF KENT & - ? Can you tell me if that is the beautiful old church of St.Paul located on Deptford High Street London. Many thanks Frank, MANITOBA

Hello, I am looking forward to my first visit to Kew next month, but have a slight problem. I am planning to go straight there from Heathrow and will have a regular (20x14x8 inches) sized piece of carry on luggage with me ( to save my having to plod into central London to drop it off at my hotel and back west again). I have checked with NA and they confirm they do have lockers, but can sks tell me their approximate dimensions. I know the alternative is leaving the bag at Heathrow but my time is not that valuable! Many thanks, Nick, Richmond, B.C., Canada

With a French name and living in Spitalfields this sounds very likely to be a Huguenot (French Protestant) family. there is an Australian Huguenot Society who had their inaugural conference at the beginning of the month. they have chapters of the Society in Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney and there is a group in Adelaide. Have a look at their website. There is a lot of help available there. One of the lectures was about doing Huguenot research. I am in NZ but I belong to it. Shirley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maureen Farrer" <maureenf@connexus.net.au> To: "Nivard Ovington" <ovington1@sky.com> Cc: <LONDON@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [LON] LAPORT > Thank you that John is mine and I do have those details from Ancestry, but > can't find his birth as I am trying to find his father, I know his mother > was Mary, but not the one who died on the 11 Dec 1800. > My Mary LAPORT was a housekeeper for Henry FARRER and already had her son > John with her. She then went on to have other children with Henry but as > he already had a living wife in Yorkshire (who > outlived them both) couldnt marry him. I have both Henry and Mary's wills. > He died in 1800 and she died in 1806, but by then called herself Mary > Farrer. I am trying to find more info on her. > thanks, > Maureen in Oz.

Hi Can anyone tell me where the records would be kept for New Prison, on my Susan ROBERTS criminal record (form Ancestry) it says she was in New Prison. Many thanks kind regards Dianna

Hi Chris. There is a William J HOGG in the 1871 census whose birthplace is given as Shoreditch, born c. 1856. Name: William J Hogg Age: 15 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856 Relation: Son Father's Name: William J Hogg Mother's Name: Betsy M Hogg Gender: Male Where born: Shoreditch, London, England Civil parish: St Paul Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul County/Island: Bedfordshire Country: England Registration district: Bedford Sub-registration district: Bedford and Cardington ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Household schedule number: 50 Piece: 1544 Folio: 61 Page Number: 11 Perhaps he could be yours? People were often unclear about their ages and he may have been evasive about his year of birth when he enlisted. Cheers Fee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Gilham" <chrisgilham@hotmail.com> To: <london@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 5:52 AM Subject: [LON] Can I Find Who Was Born On A Certain Day?‏ > Dear Listers > > I have been searching for my great grandfather (William John > Hogg)

Dianna, Records for the New Prison are held at London Metropolitan Archives (LMA), within the records of the Middlesex Sessions. There are Calendars and Gaol Delivery lists, but after only a quick look I can't see anything for the year that you need (1801). Unfortunately, at this sort of date only the briefest details are recorded, and rarely anything that is not already known from other sources. Your best bet will be to email LMA with all the facts, and ask them what records they have that might help you. That sort of general enquiry is normally answered free of charge. You could then decide whether to proceed with their research service, or engage an independent researcher (normally cheaper). ask.lma@cityoflondon.gov.uk HTH Judy London, UK -----Original Message----- From: london-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:london-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dianna charles Sent: 20 September 2011 04:25 To: London@rootsweb.com Subject: [LON] NEW Prison (Clerkenwell) Hi Can anyone tell me where the records would be kept for New Prison, on my Susan ROBERTS criminal record (form Ancestry) it says she was in New Prison. Many thanks kind regards Dianna