Hello Listers, While searching through sequential census I've noticed, among other things, some significant discrepancies in persons ages between the ten year census periods. I suppose for some people there was less importance attached to remembering precise dates in those earlier years, and may they have only thought about it when the census man called. I understand it was once thought that some family Heads intentionally advanced their age so as to qualify earlier for the newly introduced pension. It sounds like a cute plan but I would doubt that the authorities , even in the mid 19th century, would let that pass unquestioned. One of my families in fact showed that either the census taker, or the family Heads , had added ten more years to their previously established age. There are probably a good many theories (and stories) about census errors, discrepancies, and I would be most interested to read comments from Listers on this subject. I hope I’m not re-introducing an already much discussed subject. Thank you. Frank, MANITOBA

Hi Frank, A lot of people didn't write well enough to record birthdates so probably were not certain of a childs birth year. Also imagine a father looking at his kids and recording them by how tall they were. If you grew taller than your older sister your dad would be in a dilema. I'm one of 7 and my father carried a card in his wallet with our birth dates on it as he could never remember how old we were..-)) I generally have found the census closest to their birth is most likely to be nearly correct. They also would not think that 150 years later we would be searching for them so who cared how old they were. Marg >From the Beautiful British Columbia Cariboo Region, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Green" <letellierfg@hotmail.com> To: "genealogy" <london-l@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:24 AM Subject: [LON] CENSUS Hello Listers, While searching through sequential census I've noticed, among other things, some significant discrepancies in persons ages between the ten year census periods. I suppose for some people there was less importance attached to remembering precise dates in those earlier years, and may they have only thought about it when the census man called. I understand it was once thought that some family Heads intentionally advanced their age so as to qualify earlier for the newly introduced pension. It sounds like a cute plan but I would doubt that the authorities , even in the mid 19th century, would let that pass unquestioned. One of my families in fact showed that either the census taker, or the family Heads , had added ten more years to their previously established age. There are probably a good many theories (and stories) about census errors, discrepancies, and I would be most interested to read comments from Listers on this subject. I hope I’m not re-introducing an already much discussed subject. Thank you. Frank, MANITOBA

Sorry about loss of formatting - switched to plain text before sending! Jean

My thanks to all who replied. I have now found and seen the houses which were Eastern Villas. I was looking on the right street but my knowledge of London is extremely limited. My Hannah Harriet Goose who owned these and died at number 4 was an aglabs daughter from Norfolk born in 1805 she was as early as 1851 described as annuitant & in 1861 a fundholder and annuitant. I was hoping her will might lead me to find how she acquired the funds - still no nearer knowing! Maureen thanks for the census lead - it is the right family and Ledger does fit the name on the will. So Hannah left £30 to a silversmiths clerk - Wm Ledger - and the bulk of her property to a Mary Ann Denison b abt 1824 in Whitechapel nee Edwards and previously Giles. Mr Giles was a haberdasher in 1851 and Mr Denison a coal merchant. Absolutely no clues there that I can see. Again thanks all still totally bemused Jean

Fortis Green is a ward in the extreme north-western corner of the Borough of Haringey, North London. It is also the name of the road that runs between Muswell Hill and East Finchley. Eastern Road is off of Fortis Road and Eastern Terrace would have been a row of terraced houses on Eastern Road. That name may still be visible on the terrace. It's possible to view the road at "Street level" with Google-Earth - Search for Muswell Hill then view in map form with the streets names showing and you will find Fortis Road as part of the A504. Locate Eastern Road then drag the little man onto it and it will then open in street view. Sadly there are many overgrown gardens and trees and a number of new houses but clearly some, at the Fortis Road end that could be Eastern Terrace. Regards Keith Jacobs -----Original Message----- From: london-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:london-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jean Greenwood Sent: 27 September 2011 18:53 To: london@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LON] London address In a will of 1873 a relative left property 1 - 6 Eastern Villas Fortis Green Hornsey Mdx I can find Fortis Green on Google Earth but I have no idea where Eastern Villas were situated or if they still exist. Does anyone know please. She also left a bequest to a William Loger [surname unclear] of 20 Stonefield St Islington but checking both 1871 and 1881 census on FMP neither show a number 20. I was hoping to clarify William's surname if he had been at that same address in either census year. Any ideas please. Jean ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Jean   Eastern Villas were on Eastern Road, which is off Fortis Green.  They are now numbers 2-12 Eastern Road - which is 5 minutes walk from my front door!   Best wishes   Caroline   From: Jean Greenwood <jeangreenwood@virginmedia.com> To: london@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, 27 September 2011, 18:52 Subject: Re: [LON] London address In a will of 1873 a relative left property 1 - 6 Eastern Villas Fortis Green Hornsey Mdx I can find Fortis Green on Google Earth but I have no idea where Eastern Villas were situated or if they still exist. Does anyone know please. She also left a bequest to a William Loger [surname unclear] of 20 Stonefield St Islington but checking both 1871 and 1881 census on FMP neither show a number 20. I was hoping to clarify William's surname if he had been at that same address in either census year. Any ideas please. Jean

According to the 1891 census index there were some houses called Eastern Villas in Eastern Road, Fortis Green Hornsey in RG 12/1060 119-120 there are only 2 houses. But in 1881 there are 6. The reference is Registration district: Edmonton Sub-registration district: Hornsey ED, institution, or vessel: 12 Piece: 1379 Folio: 32 Page Number: 61 Nearby properties were Harwell Park & Muswell Hill& The Green Man pub. HTH Anne On 27 Sep 2011, at 18:52, Jean Greenwood wrote: > In a will of 1873 a relative left property 1 - 6 Eastern Villas Fortis Green > Hornsey Mdx > I can find Fortis Green on Google Earth but I have no idea where Eastern > Villas were > situated or if they still exist. Does anyone know please. > > She also left a bequest to a William Loger [surname unclear] of 20 > Stonefield St Islington > but checking both 1871 and 1881 census on FMP neither show a number 20. I > was hoping to > clarify William's surname if he had been at that same address in either > census year. Any ideas > please. > > Jean > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In a will of 1873 a relative left property 1 - 6 Eastern Villas Fortis Green Hornsey Mdx I can find Fortis Green on Google Earth but I have no idea where Eastern Villas were situated or if they still exist. Does anyone know please. She also left a bequest to a William Loger [surname unclear] of 20 Stonefield St Islington but checking both 1871 and 1881 census on FMP neither show a number 20. I was hoping to clarify William's surname if he had been at that same address in either census year. Any ideas please. Jean

Hello: I am trying to find baptismal records of my Shorey family. Found some from 1874 in St. John, Hampstead and others from 1887 in St. Saviour, Battersea. Missing 3 three from 1874 to 1887. The 1881 census has the family at 44 Parkside Street in Battersea, but I have no idea how that relates to the parish structure or to the names of the churches in the area. Any suggestions? Thank you, V. Shorey

On 25/09/2011 7:16 PM, Lynda Rooke wrote: > > > > Hi there listers I am hoping some kind soul can help me to decipher an entry on the London Marriage Records for James Dible. He married Ann Elizabeth Harmer (nee Bendon) on 14th May 1855 at the Parish Church in Stepney. James occupation is a General Dealer but it is his father's occupation that I am trying to establish. It looks like "master Droben" which of course does not make sense. But now that my brain is telling me that is what it says, I cannot see any other alternative! Could someone have a look for me and tell me their interpretation? Many thanks Lynda > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3917 - Release Date: 09/24/11 > > Master Drover ? Does that make sense? Vic

Butcher? Drover? Livestock dealer? I wouldn't dismiss the first one just yet. These occupations would appear to be inter-related. Ems On 25 September 2011 12:52, Lynda Rooke <lyndarooke123@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > > >  Hi Listers, Many thanks for such swift replies. The concensus of opinion is that the occupation is Master Drover. I think maybe his son could have been an auctioneer or dealer in livestock and perhaps that would then tie in with his father's occupation. I had a possible census record for James Dible who was shown as a butcher. I think now that that is probably the wrong record because the marriage entry is definitely correct. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to look for me Lynda> From: lyndarooke123@hotmail.co.uk

Hi Listers, Many thanks for such swift replies. The concensus of opinion is that the occupation is Master Drover. I think maybe his son could have been an auctioneer or dealer in livestock and perhaps that would then tie in with his father's occupation. I had a possible census record for James Dible who was shown as a butcher. I think now that that is probably the wrong record because the marriage entry is definitely correct. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to look for me Lynda> From: lyndarooke123@hotmail.co.uk > To: london-l@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 12:16:17 +0100 > Subject: [LON] DIBLE - Occupation > > > > > > Hi there listers I am hoping some kind soul can help me to decipher an entry on the London Marriage Records for James Dible. He married Ann Elizabeth Harmer (nee Bendon) on 14th May 1855 at the Parish Church in Stepney. James occupation is a General Dealer but it is his father's occupation that I am trying to establish. It looks like "master Droben" which of course does not make sense. But now that my brain is telling me that is what it says, I cannot see any other alternative! Could someone have a look for me and tell me their interpretation? Many thanks Lynda > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Lynda, Could it be Master Drover? Comparing the letter "b/v" with other "b"s on the same page it does not look the same. I cannot find another "v" but the "w"s have a tendency to stick up on the left though not as much as this letter does. So I am not sure but it would make sense. Christine -----Original Message----- From: Lynda Rooke Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 12:16 PM To: london-l@rootsweb.com Subject: [LON] DIBLE - Occupation Hi there listers I am hoping some kind soul can help me to decipher an entry on the London Marriage Records for James Dible. He married Ann Elizabeth Harmer (nee Bendon) on 14th May 1855 at the Parish Church in Stepney. James occupation is a General Dealer but it is his father's occupation that I am trying to establish. It looks like "master Droben" which of course does not make sense. But now that my brain is telling me that is what it says, I cannot see any other alternative! Could someone have a look for me and tell me their interpretation? Many thanks Lynda ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Master Drover? Ems On 25 September 2011 12:16, Lynda Rooke <lyndarooke123@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > Hi there listers I am hoping some kind soul can help me to decipher an entry on the London Marriage Records for James Dible. He married Ann Elizabeth Harmer (nee Bendon) on 14th May 1855 at the Parish Church in Stepney. James occupation is a General Dealer but it is his father's occupation that I am trying to establish. It looks like "master Droben" which of course does not make sense. But now that my brain is telling me that is what it says, I cannot see any other alternative! Could someone have a look for me and tell me their interpretation? Many thanks  Lynda

Would it be drover? David Sent from my iPod On 25 Sep 2011, at 12:16, Lynda Rooke <lyndarooke123@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > Hi there listers I am hoping some kind soul can help me to decipher an entry on the London Marriage Records for James Dible. He married Ann Elizabeth Harmer (nee Bendon) on 14th May 1855 at the Parish Church in Stepney. James occupation is a General Dealer but it is his father's occupation that I am trying to establish. It looks like "master Droben" which of course does not make sense. But now that my brain is telling me that is what it says, I cannot see any other alternative! Could someone have a look for me and tell me their interpretation? Many thanks Lynda > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi there listers I am hoping some kind soul can help me to decipher an entry on the London Marriage Records for James Dible. He married Ann Elizabeth Harmer (nee Bendon) on 14th May 1855 at the Parish Church in Stepney. James occupation is a General Dealer but it is his father's occupation that I am trying to establish. It looks like "master Droben" which of course does not make sense. But now that my brain is telling me that is what it says, I cannot see any other alternative! Could someone have a look for me and tell me their interpretation? Many thanks Lynda

Hello Listers, May I request; Do you relate to my HILL family : Thomas Henry HILL b.1814 married to Esther BIRD b.1824, m. 1850. Children : Edward b.March 29, 1852 George, April 12 , 1854 John, Aug.14, 1856 Henry, Dec.20, 1859 Alfred, - 1860 Charles, Mar. 29,1862 Elizabeth, Oct.23,1864 Alice, Jan. 3,1866 Mary Jane, July 12,1869 (became ELLIS) Thank you. Frank, Manitoba. letellierfg@hotmail.com

I see from LDS new search first child Mary Newstead baptism/christening date: 21 Jun 1756 Which makes these two marriage records interesting spouse:Jane Graham groom's name: Thomas Newstead bride's name: Jane Graham marriage date: 01 Apr 1753 marriage place: Westminster, Middlesex, England name: Thomas Newstead event type: Marriage marriage date: 01 Apr 1753 marriage place: May Fair, London record set: RG7_248 Non-Conformist Record Indexes (RG4-8) possibly the event can be seen at per link on LDS http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/ The Mayfair event does not seem to be on Ancestry Non-Conformist Record Indexes but I note one baptism on LDS with mother as Jane name: Mary Newstead gender: Female baptism/christening date: 31 Jul 1757 baptism/christening place: St. James, Westminster, Middlesex, England birth date: 11 Jul 1757 father's name: Thomas Newstead mother's name: Jane Ron Lankshear -Sydney NSW (from London-Shepherds Bush/Chiswick) try my links http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lankshear/ On 2011-09-22 11:57 PM, Renee Redshaw wrote: > Am seeking - quite desperately - a marriage for Thomas NEWSTEAD, for > purpose also of gaining his bride's maiden name. All I have from his son > Samuel is that his parents were Thomas and Mary. Samuel took the family > name to Kent - obviously to work - and married in Chislehurst to Ann > FULLER, > but going back from there Samuel was christened in St.Martin in the Fields, > Westminster, London 6/10/1776 as did his siblings christenings and > NEWSTEADS back in 1690s. > > I have possible christening for a Thomas NEWSTEAD - Mary appears on > christenings in I.G.I. without maiden name - 1757 and 1759 and going up to > a 1763, so seems a marriage pre 1757 and likely earlier.

Hello London Listers, Am seeking - quite desperately - a marriage for Thomas NEWSTEAD, for purpose also of gaining his bride's maiden name. All I have from his son Samuel is that his parents were Thomas and Mary. Samuel took the family name to Kent - obviously to work - and married in Chislehurst to Ann FULLER, but going back from there Samuel was christened in St.Martin in the Fields, Westminster, London 6/10/1776 as did his siblings christenings and NEWSTEADS back in 1690s. I have possible christening for a Thomas NEWSTEAD - Mary appears on christenings in I.G.I. without maiden name - 1757 and 1759 and going up to a 1763, so seems a marriage pre 1757 and likely earlier. Would be most grateful for any ideas or assistance with the above. Kind Regards to all. Renee Oz.

Deptford used to be part of Kent! It does make things confusing doesn't it? Jean x -----Original Message----- From: london-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:london-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Stephanie Ray Sent: 21 September 2011 17:05 To: LONDON@rootsweb.com Subject: [LON] Fwd: ST.PAUL I am from the US (and blonde to boot ;-) but didn't the marriage record say PARISH CHURCH IN THE PARISH OF ST.PAUL, DEPTFORD IN THE COUNTIES OF KENT, which would not be on Deptford High Street LONDON?! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Anne Peat <anne.peat@bigwindows.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 11:56 PM Subject: Re: [LON] ST.PAUL To: Frank Green <letellierfg@hotmail.com> Cc: london-l@rootsweb.com yes, Frank it is The parish website doesn't seem to have anything on it at the moment but look at http://www.achurchnearyou.com/deptford-st-paul/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Paul's,_Deptford HTH Anne On 20 Sep 2011, at 21:55, Frank Green wrote: > > > > > Hello Listers. I'm new.My GGrandparent's Marriage Certificate dated November 19,1850 shows that the marriage took place in the PARISH CHURCH IN THE PARISH OF ST.PAUL, DEPTFORD IN THE COUNTIES OF KENT &  - ?      Can you tell me if that is the beautiful old church of St.Paul located on Deptford High Street London.  Many thanks    Frank, MANITOBA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3911 - Release Date: 09/21/11 18:34:00