Thanks for that, Edie. I think I looked at that a while back but nothing rang any bells although I will bear it in mind for the future. Lesley -----Original Message----- From: Edie [mailto:eamca@bigpond.com] Sent: 23 October 2011 00:45 To: Lesley Chaney; London@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LON] Brick Wall - DANIEL Hi Lesley Have you looked in Barbados in the Bahamas for your Daniel family. the only reason I know of the Daniel family there is because a member of my local Family History Society has family who has lived there for generations. If you go to the new familysearch site and scroll down to the left and click on south americ, then scroll again for Bahamas, yu can put Daniel in and up comes hundreds. You may find your missing link there. Edie

Dear Listers, Can anybody help me break down my "brickwall" of many years? My JAMES HOLDER has gone missing. James was born 10/6/1853 at 5 Oak St. Limehouse.London.England His family was at :- 1851 census Piece/Folio 1554/430 Limehouse 1861 census 302/124 Poplar 1871 census 570/121 Poplar 1881 census 507/91 Poplar 1891 census 1340/159 East Ham Although I have full details on the rest of the family, I can find no trace of James after 1891 census. I have purchased Death Certs for James died 1/1892 Greenwich, James 1/1917 Reigate and James died 3/1926 Kensington but none were correct. No trace of him on the UK departures Passenger Lists 1890 onwards. I am hoping that someone with a fresh approach,can find him.Even a "no can't find him" would be of help :)

Dear Beryl,, If Mary's first child was born 1819 and she was born 1803, she was very young when she had him (16, maybe married at 15?) Did the age come from the 1841 census - you remember in that census, ages were rounded down to the nearest 5 years so she could have been born about the same time as Henry or a year or so later. There is a marriage of Henry Holmes, bachelor of this parish to Mary Susan Ogle spinster otp by licence on Feb 18, 1818 in St George Bloomsbury. Witnesses were James Ogle, William Holmes, Mary Holmes, another James Ogle and Sarah Ogle. Do these names tie up with any of the names given to the children of your Henry? Anne On 23 Oct 2011, at 00:33, Beryl O'Gorman wrote: > Henry Holmes, hairdresser and dressing case maker of 10 Mount St Grosvenor > Square London had his first known child, Henry, circa 1819. Henry born Great > Yarmouth, Norfolk, 1798. > > Wife's name was Mary. Birthplace Kingsbury Green MDX. Info we have is from > the Censuses. On the 1841 Census we have Mary at Kilburn with a new baby and > the younger children, Henry still in London with the older ones. My Brick > Wall is MARY'S MAIDEN NAME! A whole branch of the family that has never been > explored. She would have been born circa 1803. > Cheers > Beryl > > Beryl O'Gorman > Greensborough > Vic Australia >

Begin forwarded message: > From: Anne Peat <anne.peat@bigwindows.demon.co.uk> > Date: 23 October 2011 13:07:22 GMT+01:00 > To: Jan Moon <janmoon52@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [LON] City of London Lying In Hospital, Finsbury > > Because it was born there. > > Lying in hospitals were charitable institutions, and many had their own chaplains. Women (often sponsored by one of the trustees of the hospital) often came from quite a long way away to have their babies there. If the baby was frail, and because it was felt important to baptise babies as soon as possible after birth, the baptism would have taken place in the hospital chapel, rather than back at home. > > Anne > On 23 Oct 2011, at 04:16, Jan Moon wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> Why would a baby be baptised in a lying in Hospital?Jan >

Bonnie, if this child was born in the St Andrew's district in London, that should be registered in the Holborn district. I've searched for all the Ellen registrations between March 1857 and December 1868 and there is nothing that immediately springs to view - although there is an Ellen Rose HUGHES registered in December 1857 Holborn D1857 1b 462. Anne On 23 Oct 2011, at 13:11, Bonnie Leather wrote: > I really need some fresh eyes to take a look at this census for 1861 for me. > > 1861 Census...St. Bride, Mdx. > > Charlotte Hughes abt 1801 age 60 nurse Reading, Berkshire, Head > > James Hughes abt 1842,age 19 porter Chiselhurst, Kent, son > > Ellen Hennern abt 1858 age 3 St. Andrews, Mdx., Granddaughter > > This brick wall has been my nemisis for about 10 years now and I really need help with it. > > James is my gt. grandfather and I am looking for a marriage for Charlotte (his mother). On his birth record in the parish records it shows her as being a single woman but on James's marriage certificate he states his father is Charles Hughes. The reason I want fresh eyes is to look at this census and make out the last name of Ellen, the grand daughter. She is not James's daughter . The last name of Hennern is just a guess and I wanted to find her birth to locate further siblings of James and thus to his father. I would appreciate any kind of help that anyone can give me. > >

Hi Antony Thanks for your reply. I had thought of this Amelia Ann Shepherd at first, then when I saw her marriage in 1840 I sent for the cert. Unfortunately this Amelia married Jacob Hibberd and her father was the same George Sydney Shepherd, Artist. My brick wall couple is a real mystery. I do suspect that my William Alden may have named his first son William after his father, but proving it is tending to be difficult Thanks again Jen (NSW) On 22/10/2011 5:48 PM, C5D wrote: > I don't know if it is any help to you but on the London Baptisms there is a > baptism of Amelia Ann Shepherd in 1817 with a date of birth given as Feb > 27th 1815. > > On the same day a bother was baptized Alfred Hampden Shepherd was baptized. > > I cannot read the address but the parents were George and Ann. George was an > Artist > > He gives St Pancras as his place of birth for 1851 % 1861 > > Hope this helps a bit > > Antony > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on > the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for > matching interests and add your own ! > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > >

Why would a baby be baptised in a lying in Hospital?Jan

Hi Bonnie, I am fairly sure the first 2 letters are "He", the "H" is very like that in Hughes. But the rest of it is more difficult. I tried running it through FreeBMD but it keeps timing me out. It may be possible to do the search on all surnames "he*" if it were restricted to one district but I don't know what district St Andrews is. It won't work with selecting Middlesex and then I am not sure it should not be London. Sorry I couldn't help more. Christine -----Original Message----- From: Bonnie Leather Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 1:11 PM To: London@rootsweb.com Subject: [LON] James Chandler Hughes I really need some fresh eyes to take a look at this census for 1861 for me. 1861 Census...St. Bride, Mdx. Charlotte Hughes abt 1801 age 60 nurse Reading, Berkshire, Head James Hughes abt 1842,age 19 porter Chiselhurst, Kent, son Ellen Hennern abt 1858 age 3 St. Andrews, Mdx., Granddaughter This brick wall has been my nemisis for about 10 years now and I really need help with it. James is my gt. grandfather and I am looking for a marriage for Charlotte (his mother). On his birth record in the parish records it shows her as being a single woman but on James's marriage certificate he states his father is Charles Hughes. The reason I want fresh eyes is to look at this census and make out the last name of Ellen, the grand daughter. She is not James's daughter . The last name of Hennern is just a guess and I wanted to find her birth to locate further siblings of James and thus to his father. I would appreciate any kind of help that anyone can give me. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for matching interests and add your own ! Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Heather, I've just looked at the marriage certificate on Ancestry . . . . Rank or Profession says . . . Pte 54th Canadians Residence . . . South Camp Seaford Could you be looking in the wrong country ? There was a Percy Freeman - born 02/10/1885 in London England - who was in the Canadian Over-Seas Expeditionary Force. # 443248 Next of Kin - 'None' was crossed out & . . . Mrs S Fretwell, 47 Hope St, Plough Rd, Battersea . . . . added. Papers were signed 6th July 1915. Go to: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/index-e.html?PHPSESSID=hi4s va7tvc0mgiogp1h9dop0o4 Just a possibility. BonnieB > Looking for family etc. of Percy Freeman born 1885 England. Father Charles Freeman tailor. > Information From his marriage certificate St. James church Oct 1918. > Percy Freeman Private 54th Southampton Depot & 50 Kettering St. Streatham (his wife Olive Carter's > address)

Born Aug 1879, second son of Frederick Charles Warren and Alice (nee Stevens) bap 31 Aug 1879 Somers Town Christ Church, married Jessie Tookey b 1876 Enfield dtr of Albert Tookey and Mary Ann (nee Walker) - her sister Jane married Thomas's brother Charles William Warren (they were my grandparents). Thomas and Jessie had 2 children, Gladys Annie b 1904, and Eric Edwin b 1901. In the 1911 Census, they are living in Warninglid Village, Hayward's Heath - he is an Electrician - but what happened after that??Jan, Pottsville, NSW, Australia

Thanks for this. I have followed this family through the census and as this John was still with the family when my John was elsewhere I've crossed him off the list. But thank you for the suggestion.

Many thanks to Peter Gainsborough, Anne Peat and Christine Benson for their help. Unfortunately, we are no further ahead. So if you have a spare moment anyone.....please check the 1861 census for St. Bride, Mdx. for my James Chandler Hughes , mother Charlotte and granddaughter Ellen. We are looking at the last name for Ellen so that we might get her birth certificate and therefore a sibling for James C. I know that Ellen is not his child...

Someone on Ancsetry claims this one is your man: Samuel Honchard baptised St Matthew, Bethnal Green son of Peter (a weaver) and Martha 12 Aug 1778 There were a number of Hanchard/Honchard baptisms around the East End late 18th century. Given the name and the occupation of weaver, I wonder if they were of French Huguenot extraction.

Clarification - my Jane Hensher was baptised in Northfleet, Kent, not Stepney as my contact suggested (it's on familysearch.org)> > > I have a Jane Hensher, daughter of Samuel, a pipe maker, who married into > one of my branches. She was born about 1834, daughter of Samuel Hensher. > According to the census she was born in Northfleet, Kent, but I have > different information from a member of Genesreunited: > > Samuel William Hensher (b c1800) married (1) Hannah Brown, (2) Susan > Two children born in Croydon: > Samuel John b and d 1829 > Samuel William b 1831 > They then moved to Stepney and had: > Jane (bapt 10 Apr 1836) > John James b 1840 > > I think the family originated in Kent. If you like, I could pass your > email addres on to my GR contact and see if he knows any more. > > HTH > > Best wishes > Kim

On 2011/10/23 05:16, Jan Moon wrote: > Why would a baby be baptised in a lying in Hospital? Google for "Private Baptism". -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

> Bev Robertson wrote: > I've been searching for the birth and parentage of g-g-g-grandfather > Samuel Hensher for over 20 years now. He lived in Croydon from 1800 till > his death in 1833 aged 57. So he was born c 1776. I believe he married at > St George, Hanover Sq in June 1795 and had his first 2 chidren baptised at > St Botolph Aldgate in 1797 and 1798. He was a tobacco pipe maker and most > of his children also followed this trade moving back to London, Bethnal > Green and Stepney areas. I have a Jane Hensher, daughter of Samuel, a pipe maker, who married into one of my branches. She was born about 1834, daughter of Samuel Hensher. According to the census she was born in Northfleet, Kent, but I have different information from a member of Genesreunited: Samuel William Hensher (b c1800) married (1) Hannah Brown, (2) Susan Two children born in Croydon: Samuel John b and d 1829 Samuel William b 1831 They then moved to Stepney and had: Jane (bapt 10 Apr 1836) John James b 1840 I think the family originated in Kent. If you like, I could pass your email addres on to my GR contact and see if he knows any more. HTH Best wishes Kim

Hi Lesley Have you looked in Barbados in the Bahamas for your Daniel family. the only reason I know of the Daniel family there is because a member of my local Family History Society has family who has lived there for generations. If you go to the new familysearch site and scroll down to the left and click on south americ, then scroll again for Bahamas, yu can put Daniel in and up comes hundreds. You may find your missing link there. Edie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lesley Chaney" <chaneys@clara.net> To: <London@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 7:38 PM Subject: [LON] Brick Wall - DANIEL > Hi Listers, > > My great-grandfather, Francis (Frank) DANIEL, has baffled my family for > about 100 years. My grandmother tried and failed to find out about her > father, my father tried and failed, so now the job has fallen to me, and > I've been trying for about 15 years now. >

Henry Holmes, hairdresser and dressing case maker of 10 Mount St Grosvenor Square London had his first known child, Henry, circa 1819. Henry born Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, 1798. Wife's name was Mary. Birthplace Kingsbury Green MDX. Info we have is from the Censuses. On the 1841 Census we have Mary at Kilburn with a new baby and the younger children, Henry still in London with the older ones. My Brick Wall is MARY'S MAIDEN NAME! A whole branch of the family that has never been explored. She would have been born circa 1803. Cheers Beryl Beryl O'Gorman Greensborough Vic Australia

Dear List, My brickwall involves one of my ancestors, Thomas GARLICK who was born 1786 in Holborn we think his parents were Thomas GARLICK and Sarah (nee) BROAD but do not have solid evidence. We have solid proof that Thomas (born in 1786) was an undertaker at 77 Fleet Market in the late 1700's to the early 1800's. We found some information in the London Gazette for the 1820's were Thomas GARLICK was in partnership as undertaker with Sarah GARLICK who was from Bloomsbury and was a music seller. Did Sarah have two jobs and was she Thomas's sister or mother. Also in Bloomsbury was listed two brothers William & Thomas GARLICK piano forte makers and music sellers at Upper King Street, Bloomsbury. How would they be related to Thomas? Thomas married Jane LAWSON in 1821 and they had 9 children-Sarah, William and Charles died as babies, Shuckburgh (who was the twin to Charles died in 1848), William, Jane, Henry, Richard and Ada all had the middle name of SHUCKBURGH. If anyone can help us find out who Thomas's parents were we would appreciate it. Thank you. Lori

My great grandmother was born Rebecca Watts ca 1847 She married Alfred Thompson ca 1867 in Cook County IL, USA - No record of confirmation Alfred and Rebecca had 3 surviving daughters Ella, Clara and Margaret (my grandmother) Rebecca died 3 September 1880 in South Haven, VanBuren Co., MI, USA = Death record indicated her parents names as "WATTS and living in London." I have not been able to find and ship records with her listed, nor and specific link to her in London and environs. On approached I used, was locating through census records and parish information all of the Rebecca WATTS that I could find that were born during 1840's in London, Middlesex and Surrey and couple hits from outlying counties because the 1851 or 1861 census may have been living in London area locations. My list grew to 20 names. Research methodology: Starting with 1851 Census, listed all WATTS families having a daughter named "Rebecca" Continued with 1861 Census. If found in 1861 census looked for possible marriage or death in 1860's. and lastly the 1871 Census. A hit in these three eliminated that Rebecca as my g-grandmother as we know she was in United States by the time of her marriage in 1867. My research even included an immigration to Australia, thinking a possibility of than immigrating to USA later. But a marriage record and subsequent death in Australia eliminated her. We resolved the outcome of most of the Rebecca Watts on our list except for 4 as yet unresolved. They are: Rebecca d/o John and Eliza WATTS born Buckinghamshire Rebecca d/o Wm WATTS and Ann WATTS b. CA 1846 - Alverstoke, Hampshire. Rebecca d/o Charles and Rebecca WATTS b 1844 in St Pancras, Middlsex Rebecca d/o William Watts and Rebecca Bullen m 19 Dec 1847 and having daughter ca 1848 - Surrey. Looking for any information that might possibly help me. I would be happy to share my research of the WATTS families with other interested researchers. I publish a family newsletter "The Fitch Four Drive" and pdf copies of the newsletter are available on my web site. I published the information I had tracking Rebecca in Issue #38 December 2010. www.chinnery.info Don Chinnery Sun City Center FL USA