Drew Smith wrote: > I upgraded my Firefox to 19, but it did not disable my Java add-on. > > In any event, I don't see this as relevant to managing my lists. List > subscribers should not be turning to a list administrator as the go-to > person to advise on computer security issues. If someone feels more comfortable coming to me for help with computer security issues, then sobeit. If I can help, I will. If I can't, I know someone , several someones, who can help and in plain English. I regard it as part of my job as admin to help my list members in any way I can so they can carry on their research in as safe and secure an environment as possible. If you chose to redirect your list members elsewhere that is, of course, up to you; they are your lists and your list members. We're all different and all run our lists in different ways. Now, I'm going to do some of my own family research and periodically peek out for the piles of paper to make sure Pig isn't jumping on heads. If she is, I'll disappear into the heap again. If not, I'll climb out in time to do dinner :)) L8r -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

JYoung6180@aol.com wrote: > Charani- > > I would agree that all of the things you mentioned are important but when > the Dept. of Homeland Security takes the times to tell everyone to DISABLE > JAVA in their Web browsers and continues to state there are serious > vulnerabilities in JAVA even after all of the updates and when my Firefox 19 > disabled JAVA just a few days ago in the update (I had already had it disabled > prior to the update but those who did not have reported that the update made > disable the default), I have to feel that JAVA is vulnerable no matter how > much Oracle attempts to patch it. I don't use Firefox (or IE). It may be an issue if and when I update my browser but I hope not. The UK Dept of Homeland Security hasn't issued any such warnings that I'm aware of and I'm not entirely sure anyone would actually believe them if they did. At the end of the day, it's up to the individual user whether they disable JAVA in their browsers or not, uninstall it or ignore the advice. > Like others have said I don't recommend REMOVING JAVA and it is safe to use > locally on your computer, but I wouldn't trust any Web application that > uses it. The hackers are more aware than ever of the vulnerabilities and are > sure to be exploiting them in any Web-based use of JAVA they can find. > Flash (not overly secure itself but better than JAVA) and HTML5 would be more > secure alternatives. Hackers will look for anything that will make their job of spoiling things for everyone else a bit easier but even without JAVA hackers would still, er, hack systems. Precautions should be taken as far as possible. The only truly safe way of not getting hacked is not to use a computer at all at any time for any reason. I don't intend uninstalling JAVA. It's needed for certain things on my computer. I can stop it running completely if I chose to, without uninstalling it. I trust Flash less than I do JAVA, esp when it updates itself without my permission and JAVA doesn't. Smeone I know used Flash on their site. I couldn't use because I didn't have Flash on my PC at the time. When I mentioned it, he said all sites HAD to have Flash and wouldn't have it that that wasn't so. I feel it's up to webpage designers and hosts as much as visitors to keep everyone safe. > As for the Open Office Help problem...is this houses ON your computer or is > it accessed via a browser? If it is local it would be safe to use --- and > disabling in the browsers wouldn't stop anyone from using it locally. Also, > if it is disabled in a browser and you ABSOLUTELY trust the site using > it...then temporarily turn it on. The OpenOffice hiccup wasn't mine although I do use Open Office. If I ever have any worries about my computer's safety, I can very easily unplug the network cable and run my security programs before reconnecting if all is well. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Hi again I currently use Apache OpenOffice 3.4.0 as I was advised to wait for the auto update rather than just update manually I just went to check the version of Firefox which was 18.02 and got an update to 19 Despite being set to auto update it had not previously, despite being released 6 days ago Having updated I then tried OpenOffice help again and now get the same message you did (ie Java required) What changed in the update I know not As I rarely if ever need the search in help with OpenOffice I will remain without Java Being without it has caused no other problems Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Nivard: > > After I uninstalled Java, Apache OpenOffice informed me, when I > attempted the search in Help, that I needed to select a runtime version > of Java. I find that more credible than your conclusion, especially > since re-installing Java immediately solved the problem. > > On this PC, I am using the latest version of Firefox on Vista. > > The LibreOffice version of OpenOffice, running on Win 7, apparently does > not depend on Java for Help but I only did a cursory test. > > Darrell

Lainee Denton-Jones wrote: > As of February 20th there were still hackers getting into systems due to > Java... > Why would I want something that vulnerable on my machine? AND if I am not > missing it WHY would I put it back on my machine and risk my job and > everything? But is it *really* that vulnerable? Or are there other things, such as poor security, involved as well? My guess is there are other factors involved as well. The media only publishes what makes for a good story, and that doesn't always include the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. How secure is your machine? Do you have a software firewall or a hardware one or both? Is it up to date? Run the ShieldsUp! test at https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2 and you'll find out. It's perfectly safe. I've been using it for years and I know many others who also run periodic checks. Just follow the instructions. My machine is in full stealth mode. It effectively doesn't exist. It doesn't responde to probes. Nothing, nada, nowt, zilch or any other way you want to put it. If one of my email address gets hacked, it won't be on my computer. It'll be on an email provider's server. I don't keep an address book but there are mails in most addresses though, which can also be a source. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Hi again I have no Java at all just in case it was lurking I checked via the Java site which stated no working Java found on my system I just rechecked OpenOffice help, tried search and various other things in help, no problem at all I can only conclude the missing Java on your system can have no effect on OpenOffice help I use Firefox with Win 7 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > Nivard: > > With Java uninstalled (not just disabled in the browser) Apache > OpenOffice 3.4.1 would not run a "Search" in Help contents on my computer. > > Darrell

If you go to the Java site, you will see that it is in its 11th revision at the moment and I'm sure by now that they have closed that security breach. If you have downloaded the most current version, you are most likely just fine. Janet

Hi Darrell I have no Java I use OpenOffice and help works Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 25/02/2013 12:21, Darrell A. Martin wrote: > Greetings: > > I uninstalled Java and now OpenOffice Help does not work. This makes "no > Java" an absolute non-starter for me. Back on it goes. > > Darrell >

LOL! But sometimes if we can help THEM it makes life easier for US as admins. ;) On the Senior-Newbie list I just ran into someone who got infected with the FBI MoneyPak virus and actually followed the instructions to buy the $300 MoneyPak to send to the hackers! Of course, the purpose of THAT list IS to help with computer problems. Joan In a message dated 2/25/2013 11:35:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewsmithtpa@gmail.com writes: As I understand it, our role as a list administrator is to help our list subscribers in using the list. I don't see our role as solving all of their computer problems. That's what they have teenage children and grandchildren for. :) Drew Smith On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Charani <charani.b@gmail.com> wrote: > If someone feels more comfortable coming to me for help with computer > security issues, then sobeit. If I can help, I will. If I can't, I know > someone , several someones, who can help and in plain English. I regard it > as part of my job as admin to help my list members in any way I can so they > can carry on their research in as safe and secure an environment as > possible. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LISTOWNERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

As I understand it, our role as a list administrator is to help our list subscribers in using the list. I don't see our role as solving all of their computer problems. That's what they have teenage children and grandchildren for. :) Drew Smith On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Charani <charani.b@gmail.com> wrote: > If someone feels more comfortable coming to me for help with computer > security issues, then sobeit. If I can help, I will. If I can't, I know > someone , several someones, who can help and in plain English. I regard it > as part of my job as admin to help my list members in any way I can so they > can carry on their research in as safe and secure an environment as > possible.

Drew- I agree that this topic is drifting off course for admins...but it did start in reference to advising and dealing with subscribers getting their email accounts hacked and posting spam to our lists. If admins can be well informed in handling these situations it is all for the better. Joan In a message dated 2/25/2013 10:22:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewsmithtpa@gmail.com writes: I upgraded my Firefox to 19, but it did not disable my Java add-on. In any event, I don't see this as relevant to managing my lists. List subscribers should not be turning to a list administrator as the go-to person to advise on computer security issues. Drew Smith

Lainee Denton-Jones wrote: >Why would I want something that vulnerable on my machine? AND if I am not >missing it WHY would I put it back on my machine and risk my job and >everything? It is _Java_in_browsers_ that _may_ be the problem. You can turn off Java in your browser to eliminate the security threat. But, Java is _needed_ for many other programs. As for something vulnerable on your machine, the most vulnerable thing is the connection to the Internet. While there are firewalls, and other Internet protection programs, absolutely nothing is more secure that disconnecting the computer from the Internet. Lee Hoffman/KY TMG Tips: <http://www.tmgtips.com> My website: <http://www.tmgtips.com/lhoffman> A user of the best genealogy program, The Master Genealogist (TMG)

I upgraded my Firefox to 19, but it did not disable my Java add-on. In any event, I don't see this as relevant to managing my lists. List subscribers should not be turning to a list administrator as the go-to person to advise on computer security issues. Drew Smith On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 10:02 AM, <JYoung6180@aol.com> wrote: > I would agree that all of the things you mentioned are important but when > the Dept. of Homeland Security takes the times to tell everyone to DISABLE > JAVA in their Web browsers and continues to state there are serious > vulnerabilities in JAVA even after all of the updates and when my Firefox 19 > disabled JAVA just a few days ago in the update (I had already had it disabled > prior to the update but those who did not have reported that the update made > disable the default), I have to feel that JAVA is vulnerable no matter how > much Oracle attempts to patch it.

Charani- I would agree that all of the things you mentioned are important but when the Dept. of Homeland Security takes the times to tell everyone to DISABLE JAVA in their Web browsers and continues to state there are serious vulnerabilities in JAVA even after all of the updates and when my Firefox 19 disabled JAVA just a few days ago in the update (I had already had it disabled prior to the update but those who did not have reported that the update made disable the default), I have to feel that JAVA is vulnerable no matter how much Oracle attempts to patch it. Like others have said I don't recommend REMOVING JAVA and it is safe to use locally on your computer, but I wouldn't trust any Web application that uses it. The hackers are more aware than ever of the vulnerabilities and are sure to be exploiting them in any Web-based use of JAVA they can find. Flash (not overly secure itself but better than JAVA) and HTML5 would be more secure alternatives. As for the Open Office Help problem...is this houses ON your computer or is it accessed via a browser? If it is local it would be safe to use --- and disabling in the browsers wouldn't stop anyone from using it locally. Also, if it is disabled in a browser and you ABSOLUTELY trust the site using it...then temporarily turn it on. Joan In a message dated 2/25/2013 8:47:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, charani.b@gmail.com writes: But is it *really* that vulnerable? Or are there other things, such as poor security, involved as well? My guess is there are other factors involved as well.

I will say this once and no more on Java. I have Java and is used exclusively for FamilySearch indexing. It is required item. David Samuelsen

I have to agree this list is not for expert help on computers. ;-0. I'm even surprised that Pig has let it go on this long! If you read the article carefully it says to disable it for browsers it says nothing about deleting it. If you don't need it that's fine and dandy, but I have older programs installed on my older computer that do need it. I did disabled in for browsers and my favorite game is still working On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:50 AM, Darrell A. Martin <darrellm@sprynet.com> wrote: > On 2/25/2013 6:40 AM, Lainee Denton-Jones wrote: >> As of February 20th there were still hackers getting into systems due to >> Java... >>

I have to agree this list is not for expert help on computers. ;-0. I'm even surprised that Pig has let it go on this long! If you read the article carefully it says to disable it for browsers it says nothing about deleting it. If you don't need it that's fine and dandy, but I have older programs installed on my older computer that do need it. I did disabled in for browsers and my favorite game is still working so I'm okay with that. Joan On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:50 AM, Darrell A. Martin <darrellm@sprynet.com> wrote: > On 2/25/2013 6:40 AM, Lainee Denton-Jones wrote: >> As of February 20th there were still hackers getting into systems due to >> Java... >>

The most recent update is 15 not 11. On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Janet Crawford <reojan@gmail.com> wrote: > If you go to the Java site, you will see that it is in its 11th > revision at the moment and I'm sure by now that they have closed that > security breach. If you have downloaded the most current version, you > are most likely just fine. > > Janet > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LISTOWNERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 2/25/2013 6:46 AM, Nivard Ovington wrote: > Hi again > > I have no Java at all > > just in case it was lurking I checked via the Java site which stated no > working Java found on my system > > I just rechecked OpenOffice help, tried search and various other things > in help, no problem at all > > I can only conclude the missing Java on your system can have no effect > on OpenOffice help > > I use Firefox with Win 7 > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) Nivard: After I uninstalled Java, Apache OpenOffice informed me, when I attempted the search in Help, that I needed to select a runtime version of Java. I find that more credible than your conclusion, especially since re-installing Java immediately solved the problem. On this PC, I am using the latest version of Firefox on Vista. The LibreOffice version of OpenOffice, running on Win 7, apparently does not depend on Java for Help but I only did a cursory test. Darrell

You don't want to uninstall it you want to disable it for browsers. Makes a big difference. In Windows: Control Panel, Java, Security Tab, uncheck the box 'enable Java content in browser.' Joan On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:21 AM, Darrell A. Martin <darrellm@sprynet.com> wrote: > Greetings: > > I uninstalled Java and now OpenOffice Help does not work. This makes "no > Java" an absolute non-starter for me. Back on it goes. > > Darrell > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LISTOWNERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 2/25/2013 6:40 AM, Lainee Denton-Jones wrote: > As of February 20th there were still hackers getting into systems due to > Java... > > http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=2&ved=0CDMQqQIoADAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxbusiness.com%2Ftechnology%2F2013%2F02%2F20%2Fjava-link-in-apple-facebook-and-twitter-hacks%2F&ei=QFsrUcCSH4Xc2AW32IFo&usg=AFQjCNFpP9h1CE48kVmhSe-Wev-9UgGI6Q&sig2=4k0xE_S058Q6-bSq_l3dNg > > Why would I want something that vulnerable on my machine? AND if I am not > missing it WHY would I put it back on my machine and risk my job and > everything? > > Lainee Lainee: If you are not missing it, then leave it off. Simple. I have no problem with you doing that. I have been reminded, however, that Listowners-L is sometimes not the best place to get advice on technical matters not related to RootsWeb. Darrell