sounds to me like the complaining party has control issues. -----Original Message----- From: Charani <charani.b@gmail.com> To: Lynne <lynne.canterbury@frontier.com>; listowners-L <listowners-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Apr 15, 2013 11:36 am Subject: Re: [LO] Archived Email Removal Lynne wrote: > The obits were less than your typical obits. Barely just the > facts. The protester had no objection to them appearing on the web. > She just didn't want them on a mailing list because readers could > discuss them there. It's a mystery to me. *That* takes the biscuit!! It really does. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LISTOWNERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I would never even TELL the original poster in a case like that...I'd just explain to the complainer what I suggested in my previous reply. Also...does the family member realize that removing the obits from the archives doesn't stop the post from being circulated by email? Further discussion ON the list could take place anyway...and the obits could be QUOTED in the replies --- discussion on a list takes place from the email distribution. There CAN BE NO discussion FROM the archives...which apparently your complainer doesn't realize. Joan In a message dated 4/15/2013 11:49:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lynne.canterbury@frontier.com writes: The obits were less than your typical obits. Barely just the facts. The protester had no objection to them appearing on the web. She just didn't want them on a mailing list because readers could discuss them there. It's a mystery to me. But the originator of the email did agree to have it removed from the Archives. Hopefully, this will solve her problem. Lynne

On 4/15/2013 11:55 AM, JYoung6180@aol.com wrote: > I would never even TELL the original poster in a case like that...I'd just > explain to the complainer what I suggested in my previous reply. Joan: I agree completely. No need to involve the original poster, who may not (probably does not, in fact) understand the issues. Darrell

In addition, as we all know, facts cannot be copywritten. -David Sent from my iPhone On Apr 15, 2013, at 10:46 AM, JYoung6180@aol.com wrote: > Lynne- > > The only one who can claim COPYRIGHT infringement is the newspaper...and I > am assuming the complaints didn't come from the paper? I'm also assuming > the obits were the standard ones that are created from the form the funeral > director uses and completed with just the basic information and not a > lengthy personally written obit by a family member or an obit with a byline > written with a lot of original text by either the family or a staffer working > for the paper. The only way a family member could hold copyright is if that > person wrote the obit and it contains personal information other than just > names, dates, and places (which cannot be copyrighted by anyone). Usually as > a matter of course the paper has copyright. > > Most obits are publicly accessibly on the Website of the paper whether or > not they were published and archived on a RootsWeb list--- and the > information was published when the obit was created...so there usually are no > privacy issues. > > I would just explain that to the people complaining. 1) only the > copyright holder can claim infringement, 2) names, dates, and places are not > copyrightable because copyright protects only original creative text, 3) the obit > is accessible in other public places in addition to the list archives. You > might add that an obit from 27 years ago is NOT going to expose anyone to > identity theft or other issues related to privacy. > > Joan > > > In a message dated 4/15/2013 8:01:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > lynne.canterbury@frontier.com writes: > > Someone on one of my mailing lists posted two obits (in one emal) from 27 > years ago. Someone else is now up in arms that these obits were posted, > claiming it's an invasion of her family's privacy, a copyright violation, and > could cause her family extreme embarrassment. She is DEMANDING that the > email be removed from the Archves. I've looked everywhere for > instructions on how to do it, and I'm not seeing anything. Can someone point me in > the right direction? > > Thanks! > Lynne > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LISTOWNERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Lynne- The only one who can claim COPYRIGHT infringement is the newspaper...and I am assuming the complaints didn't come from the paper? I'm also assuming the obits were the standard ones that are created from the form the funeral director uses and completed with just the basic information and not a lengthy personally written obit by a family member or an obit with a byline written with a lot of original text by either the family or a staffer working for the paper. The only way a family member could hold copyright is if that person wrote the obit and it contains personal information other than just names, dates, and places (which cannot be copyrighted by anyone). Usually as a matter of course the paper has copyright. Most obits are publicly accessibly on the Website of the paper whether or not they were published and archived on a RootsWeb list--- and the information was published when the obit was created...so there usually are no privacy issues. I would just explain that to the people complaining. 1) only the copyright holder can claim infringement, 2) names, dates, and places are not copyrightable because copyright protects only original creative text, 3) the obit is accessible in other public places in addition to the list archives. You might add that an obit from 27 years ago is NOT going to expose anyone to identity theft or other issues related to privacy. Joan In a message dated 4/15/2013 8:01:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lynne.canterbury@frontier.com writes: Someone on one of my mailing lists posted two obits (in one emal) from 27 years ago. Someone else is now up in arms that these obits were posted, claiming it's an invasion of her family's privacy, a copyright violation, and could cause her family extreme embarrassment. She is DEMANDING that the email be removed from the Archves. I've looked everywhere for instructions on how to do it, and I'm not seeing anything. Can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks! Lynne

The obits were less than your typical obits.  Barely just the facts. The protester had no objection to them appearing on the web.  She just didn't want them on a mailing list because readers could discuss them there.  It's a mystery to me.  But the originator of the email did agree to have it removed from the Archives.    Hopefully, this will solve her problem.   Lynne From: "JYoung6180@aol.com" <JYoung6180@aol.com> To: lynne.canterbury@frontier.com; listowners-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [LO] Archived Email Removal Lynne- The only one who can claim COPYRIGHT infringement is the newspaper...and I am assuming the complaints didn't come from the paper? I'm also assuming the obits were the standard ones that are created from the form the funeral director uses and completed with just the basic information and not a lengthy personally written obit by a family member or an obit with a byline written with a lot of original text by either the family or a staffer working for the paper. The only way a family member could hold copyright is if that person wrote the obit and it contains personal information other than just names, dates, and places (which cannot be copyrighted by anyone). Usually as a matter of course the paper has copyright. Most obits are publicly accessibly on the Website of the paper whether or not they were published and archived on a RootsWeb list--- and the information was published when the obit was created...so there usually are no privacy issues. I would just explain that to the people complaining.  1) only the copyright holder can claim infringement, 2) names, dates, and places are not copyrightable because copyright protects only original creative text, 3) the obit is accessible in other public places in addition to the list archives. You might add that an obit from 27 years ago is NOT going to expose anyone to identity theft or other issues related to privacy. Joan In a message dated 4/15/2013 8:01:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lynne.canterbury@frontier.com writes: Someone on one of my mailing lists posted two obits (in one emal) from 27 years ago.  Someone else is now up in arms that these obits were posted, claiming it's an invasion of her family's privacy, a copyright violation, and could cause her family extreme embarrassment.   She is DEMANDING that the email be removed from the Archves.  I've looked everywhere for instructions on how to do it, and I'm not seeing anything.  Can someone point me in the right direction? >  >Thanks! >Lynne > >

For future reference the archive removal tool is here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/remove When using the tool it will send an email to the original poster an email to follow through to remove the email. He/she has the option to not follow through. If the post is objectionable you need to use the tool and then report to staff that the tool was used and why the post needs to be removed. The help desk can be found here: http://rootsweb.custhelp.com/ Sincerely, Joan On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 8:02 AM, JLA <jasche45133@gmail.com> wrote: > Only the original poster can remove a post from the archives. Tell > your complaining poster this and have her take her complaint to the > help desk since you can do nothing and staff will need to step in. > > Sincerely, > > Joan Asche > > On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 7:55 AM, Lynne <lynne.canterbury@frontier.com> wrote:

Were they published at the time? If so, can the original source be cited? -David On Apr 15, 2013, at 7:55 AM, Lynne <lynne.canterbury@frontier.com> wrote: > Someone on one of my mailing lists posted two obits (in one emal) from 27 years ago. Someone else is now up in arms that these obits were posted, claiming it's an invasion of her family's privacy, a copyright violation, and could cause her family extreme embarrassment. She is DEMANDING that the email be removed from the Archves. I've looked everywhere for instructions on how to do it, and I'm not seeing anything. Can someone point me in the right direction? > > Thanks! > Lynne > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LISTOWNERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Only the original poster can remove a post from the archives. Tell your complaining poster this and have her take her complaint to the help desk since you can do nothing and staff will need to step in. Sincerely, Joan Asche On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 7:55 AM, Lynne <lynne.canterbury@frontier.com> wrote: > Someone on one of my mailing lists posted two obits (in one emal) from 27 years ago. Someone else is now up in arms that these obits were posted, claiming it's an invasion of her family's privacy, a copyright violation, and could cause her family extreme embarrassment. She is DEMANDING that the email be removed from the Archves. I've looked everywhere for instructions on how to do it, and I'm not seeing anything. Can someone point me in the right direction? > > Thanks! > Lynne > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LISTOWNERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks one and all for your advice and help.    Sometimes people on mailing lists do things that just baffle and amaze me.  This is one of those times.    Lynne From: Lynne <lynne.canterbury@frontier.com> To: "listowners-L@rootsweb.com" <listowners-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 7:55 AM Subject: [LO] Archived Email Removal Someone on one of my mailing lists posted two obits (in one emal) from 27 years ago.  Someone else is now up in arms that these obits were posted, claiming it's an invasion of her family's privacy, a copyright violation, and could cause her family extreme embarrassment.   She is DEMANDING that the email be removed from the Archves.  I've looked everywhere for instructions on how to do it, and I'm not seeing anything.  Can someone point me in the right direction?   Thanks! Lynne ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LISTOWNERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Someone on one of my mailing lists posted two obits (in one emal) from 27 years ago.  Someone else is now up in arms that these obits were posted, claiming it's an invasion of her family's privacy, a copyright violation, and could cause her family extreme embarrassment.   She is DEMANDING that the email be removed from the Archves.  I've looked everywhere for instructions on how to do it, and I'm not seeing anything.  Can someone point me in the right direction?   Thanks! Lynne

Nope, I'm already aware of the junk that comes through the adm. address and I can easily tell the difference between that and what comes from the lists. This came into my main email account not the adm. address, no address except for the Request address I've indicated. As I mentioned, there was nothing in the email that even looks like the messages that come from RW or Mailman except for the statement, all of the messages I've ever received in connection with my lists contain links to the adm. pages to make the moderation, and they are addressed via my adm. address. I'm going to forward a copy of the email directly to you so that you will see what I mean. Deloris From: JYoung6180@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 12:12 PM To: del_williams@comcast.net ; listowners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LO] Spam confirmation? Deloris- Are you sure you are not falling for the spam that comes with the subject listname-admin you have 8 new messages? I wondered if that spam would confuse admins with actual pending request emails. Joan In a message dated 4/11/2013 12:19:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, del_williams@comcast.net writes: Charani, That's the strange thing, I know that I usually get these type of things enclosed in a message from RW, which includes a link to the administrative page asking to approve or disapprove, etc., not to mention it always comes as a Moderator Request. But this was a message alone, nothing else came with it, that was the entire message; it also came from the address of the mailing list-Request "at"rootsweb.com (I've substituted the "at" to keep from triggering a message), and it wasn't even addressed to me or my administrative address. It was a very brief header, I've never seen anything like it before, here it is, but I'm greatly abbreviating the subject number since I don't want to trigger anything, but it contained some 50 figures: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: confirm 0ce9b.................................. Deloris

Deloris- Are you sure you are not falling for the spam that comes with the subject listname-admin you have 8 new messages? I wondered if that spam would confuse admins with actual pending request emails. Joan In a message dated 4/11/2013 12:19:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, del_williams@comcast.net writes: Charani, That's the strange thing, I know that I usually get these type of things enclosed in a message from RW, which includes a link to the administrative page asking to approve or disapprove, etc., not to mention it always comes as a Moderator Request. But this was a message alone, nothing else came with it, that was the entire message; it also came from the address of the mailing list-Request "at"rootsweb.com (I've substituted the "at" to keep from triggering a message), and it wasn't even addressed to me or my administrative address. It was a very brief header, I've never seen anything like it before, here it is, but I'm greatly abbreviating the subject number since I don't want to trigger anything, but it contained some 50 figures: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: confirm 0ce9b.................................. Deloris

Charani, That's the strange thing, I know that I usually get these type of things enclosed in a message from RW, which includes a link to the administrative page asking to approve or disapprove, etc., not to mention it always comes as a Moderator Request. But this was a message alone, nothing else came with it, that was the entire message; it also came from the address of the mailing list-Request "at"rootsweb.com (I've substituted the "at" to keep from triggering a message), and it wasn't even addressed to me or my administrative address. It was a very brief header, I've never seen anything like it before, here it is, but I'm greatly abbreviating the subject number since I don't want to trigger anything, but it contained some 50 figures: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: confirm 0ce9b.................................. Deloris -------------------------------------------------- From: "Charani" <charani.b@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 4:22 AM To: "Deloris Williams" <del_williams@comcast.net>; <listowners@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [LO] Spam confirmation? > Deloris Williams wrote: >> I received a strange message from an address that is probably trying to >> mimic Rootsweb, claiming to be from one of my mailing lists "Request" at >> Rootsweb, with a subject of "Confirm..." with a long series of numbers >> and >> letters following. The header is very brief, with both the "sender" and >> "from" showing that same list request address. Here is what the message >> says in its entirety: >> >> If you reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header intact, >> Mailman will discard the held message. Do this if the message is >> spam. If you reply to this message and include an Approved: header >> with the list password in it, the message will be approved for posting >> to the list. The Approved: header can also appear in the first line >> of the body of the reply. > > When a post from a list member requires attention, there are two > attachments, the first is the post, the second it the one you mention > above. > > If it's part of a post that you need to approve (or not), then it's > genuine. > > -- > Charani (UK) > OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, > Greinton and Clutton, SOM > http://wsom-opc.org.uk >

Deloris Williams wrote: > I received a strange message from an address that is probably trying to > mimic Rootsweb, claiming to be from one of my mailing lists "Request" at > Rootsweb, with a subject of "Confirm..." with a long series of numbers and > letters following. The header is very brief, with both the "sender" and > "from" showing that same list request address. Here is what the message > says in its entirety: > > If you reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header intact, > Mailman will discard the held message. Do this if the message is > spam. If you reply to this message and include an Approved: header > with the list password in it, the message will be approved for posting > to the list. The Approved: header can also appear in the first line > of the body of the reply. When a post from a list member requires attention, there are two attachments, the first is the post, the second it the one you mention above. If it's part of a post that you need to approve (or not), then it's genuine. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

On 4/10/2013 6:19 PM, George W. Durman wrote: > For many months, a List I manage (YEAGER) has been receiving > spam. There are 2 or 3 posts every day and all of them advertising > "ladies" in Russia. The address of the senders are gobbledy-gook > and, or course, aren't real. > > How do I stop these postings? They don't get through to the List > but I have to go to the List Admin page and delete them every day. > > I manage about 2 dozen Lists but the YEAGER List is the only one > having this problem. > > Regards, > George W. Durman George: Your subject line says "Spam on a List" but your message says "They don't get through to the List ..." The difference is huge, and my point is that your question, "How do I stop these postings?" has a simple answer. *YOU* stop them. You can set up your list to minimize notifications of posts by non-members, but in the end you, as list admin, are not being victimized. Instead, YOU ARE THE ANSWER TO THE PROBLEM for the list's subscribers. By the way, if you leave the messages alone and do nothing, they are auto-deleted eventually -- in 7 days, I think. Darrell

Mary- You can always let your list members know that if they use an alternate address you can add it to the Accept List if they let you know to do so. I certainly wouldn't go through the hours on end of deleting spam from pending requests just for that reason. 99.9% of the non-subscriber mail is spam. Joan In a message dated 4/10/2013 8:04:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrichson@ix.netcom.com writes: Joan, I'm not wild about automatically discarding posts from non-subscribers. Yes, most of them deserve discarding and being marked as spam. But I can't tell you how many times my listers have tried to post from an address that isn't subbed to my list. Bless their hearts -- they have multiple addresses and forget which one is subbed. I wanna be able to intercept these SNAFUs and keep the conversation going. Automatically snuffing them would be detrimental to my list. Mary

I received a strange message from an address that is probably trying to mimic Rootsweb, claiming to be from one of my mailing lists "Request" at Rootsweb, with a subject of "Confirm..." with a long series of numbers and letters following. The header is very brief, with both the "sender" and "from" showing that same list request address. Here is what the message says in its entirety: If you reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header intact, Mailman will discard the held message. Do this if the message is spam. If you reply to this message and include an Approved: header with the list password in it, the message will be approved for posting to the list. The Approved: header can also appear in the first line of the body of the reply. ----------------------------------- I have no intention of replying to the message, but I've never seen this before and want to make sure that it's not something that is legitimate. Anyone else ever see this before? Deloris Williams

Joan, I'm not wild about automatically discarding posts from non-subscribers. Yes, most of them deserve discarding and being marked as spam. But I can't tell you how many times my listers have tried to post from an address that isn't subbed to my list. Bless their hearts -- they have multiple addresses and forget which one is subbed. I wanna be able to intercept these SNAFUs and keep the conversation going. Automatically snuffing them would be detrimental to my list. Mary At 07:37 PM 4/10/2013, JYoung6180@aol.com wrote: >George- > >You can always do what I did with all my lists a long time ago and change >your tools page setting from "hold" to "discard" for non-subscriber >addresses. Be careful though because if the list is gatewayed and >you moderate the >gateway posts this setting won't work. Otherwise it works fine. > >Joan > > >>Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 19:19:08 -0400 >>To: Listowners@rootsweb.com >>From: "George W. Durman" <GermannaResearch@comcast.net> >>Subject: [LO] Spam on a List >> >>For many months, a List I manage (YEAGER) has been receiving >>spam. There are 2 or 3 posts every day and all of them advertising >>"ladies" in Russia. The address of the senders are gobbledy-gook >>and, or course, aren't real. >> >>How do I stop these postings? They don't get through to the List >>but I have to go to the List Admin page and delete them every day. >> >>I manage about 2 dozen Lists but the YEAGER List is the only one >>having this problem. >> >>Regards, >>George W. Durman >> >> >>Germanna Database at Ancestry: >>http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/28427876/family >> >>My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: >>http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna >> >>My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: >>http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/index.html

I got them, too, and they weren't just from Russia. I reported them as spam. Have you done that? When they kept appearing, I reported them to the Help Desk, suggesting that the spam filter wasn't working well enough. Whatever the Help Desk guys did resolved the problem for me. I'm surprised to hear that whatever corrective action they took didn't apply to all lists. I've had other instances of repeated spam showing up in my pending messages. I always report them as spam, but if they don't disappear promptly, I refer them to the Help Desk. Have always had a good resolution. Mary Richardson At 07:19 PM 4/10/2013, you wrote: >For many months, a List I manage (YEAGER) has been receiving >spam. There are 2 or 3 posts every day and all of them advertising >"ladies" in Russia. The address of the senders are gobbledy-gook >and, or course, aren't real. > >How do I stop these postings? They don't get through to the List >but I have to go to the List Admin page and delete them every day. > >I manage about 2 dozen Lists but the YEAGER List is the only one >having this problem. > >Regards, >George W. Durman > >Germanna Database at Ancestry: >http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/28427876/family > >My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: >http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna > >My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: >http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/index.html