Greetings: The fly in the ointment of the auto-discard option is this; on my lists, I was getting more crud that actually got posted to the list through the gateway than by any other route. And yet, I got -- and still get -- a fair amount of non-subscriber but "real" messages posted to the boards as well. So, for me, for my lists, in order to serve my subscribers well I have to moderate the boards gateways (it really isn't moderating, of course) AND actually process my pending requests, in a timely manner. As a result the auto-discard option is, to put it bluntly, not an option I can even consider. This is **not** a complaint. Nor is it a campaign for others to "moderate" their own board gateways. How I do it works for me, and it may not for you. But perhaps it will provide some insight into why some of us "don't just change our settings" even though we are aggravated by all the -admin address crud. Darrell

Allen and Joan, I agree. My lists (and boards) are small and the amount of real subscriber email is very light. However the spam (mostly to my -admin address, and only a few to -request) is 100 or 200 times the volume. I have not used DISCARD but maybe I should look into this. I have RW filters (whatever they may be), Yahoo (sbcglobal.net ISP) filters, and Microsoft Outlook filters (local mail handler), and MS Outlook wizard filters (personally set) and this helps a lot. Thanks, Joan, for bringing up again what is available to be used via RootsWeb. Peace, James R. Davis -----Original Message----- From: listowners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:listowners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Allen Dew Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 5:23 PM To: listowners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LO] ADMIN NOTE: Joan, You are entirely correct. I have two lists that get about 6 or 8 messages per year. However, they get many hundreds of spam messages per year. It is a waste of my time to have to manually delete those hundreds of Non-Subscriber spam messages each day. I have those two lists set to discard Non-Subscriber spam. Not a single Good message has been discarded in several years now. All the Good messages get through immediately or are made available in Pending Requests. This option works very well for my lists, which are all properly attended to. Allen At 08:10 PM 07/31/12, you wrote: >If I were to admin one or two lists...I'd still set my option to >DISCARD non-subscriber SPAM. If RootsWeb didn't want me doing that the >option wouldn't BE there. > >I guess my definition of PROPER and yours is not the same. > >Joan > > >In a message dated 7/31/2012 8:07:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >ian_marr@bigpond.net.au writes: > >Joan, > >The answer, to me, is obvious. > >Rather than not doing the job properly for all your lists, reduce the >number of lists you admin so that you can do the job properly > >Regards, >Ian MARR >at 38° 24' 01.299" S by 142° 34' 11.9094" E; 11m above sea level > >This message can be considered to be in the public domain. > >The home of SW Victorian Cemetery indexes: >http://home.vicnet.net.au/~marr/ Allansford Weather (10 min updates): >http://home.vicnet.net.au/~marr/Weather/ >Remember, to EVERY question in life, there is MORE than ONE correct answer. >----- Original Message ----- >From: JYoung6180@aol.com >To: ian_marr@bigpond.net.au ; listowners@rootsweb.com >Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 9:54 AM >Subject: Re: [LO] ADMIN NOTE: > > >Ian- > >It was getting so that it would take me at the minimum 2 to 3 HOURS >every day just to delete all the spam in pending requests. The setting >to DISCARD is NOT discarding "anything that suits me" -- it is discarding 100% SPAM. >There was NEVER a legit message there asking for help. I still get the >accidental subscriber post that lands in pending requests for a >variety of reasons and the moderated list member posts...those I'm >more than happy to handle -- but the non-subscriber spam being >DISCARDED is the setting I and many other admins CHOOSE (as long as we >are not moderating the gateways) AND if RootsWeb had any qualms with >admins setting non-subscriber posts to DISCARD they wouldn't have >created this option specifically so we CAN have the spam discarded. >That is why this option was created! > >I can do my "job" as admin MUCH better if I have that extra 2-3 hours >a day to help people and tend to actual list functions than if I were >to devote that time to deleting spam from more than 100 list pending >requests. > >Joan > >In a message dated 7/31/2012 7:35:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >ian_marr@bigpond.net.au writes: >Joan, > >I've sat back for a while while you laud the concept of just "discarding" >anything that doesn't suit you, and can't help wondering why you are a >list administrator at all. > >I admin many lists which vary from very slow to relatively busy. >There are many aspects to being an admin, and I try to do each >justice. Welcoming new members, being sure I respond quickly to >queries, publishing a list etiquette fact sheet, monitoring the >messages, processing incorrectly addressed messages, dealing with the >"pending" list and anything else that may come along. I regard each >of these as an integral part of the job. > >They say any job worth doing is worth doing well. I just can't see >how this is achieved if any of us decide we won't do certain aspects >because it doesn't suit us. > >Regards, >Ian MARR ---------- Allen Dew 919-471-3548 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LISTOWNERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I never saw anyone say they didn't want to "work" or respond to legitimate admin messages --- only that they were sick of receiving SPAM at their admin addresses. Pending requests are another matter entirely. No one should be writing TO the request address with anything other than commands to subscribe or unsubscribe...it isn't a place for communicating with the admin. That is one reason I have those emails discarded. Joan In a message dated 7/31/2012 6:32:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pleblan@aim.com writes: Pig Yes Thank you I went right back on. It was a general question because the discussion had got to the point where people did not want to work pending or -Admin messages. unfortunately I could not resubscribe to about 20 other lists. I have as today got back to all of them except one. Paul

Pig Yes Thank you I went right back on. It was a general question because the discussion had got to the point where people did not want to work pending or -Admin messages. unfortunately I could not resubscribe to about 20 other lists. I have as today got back to all of them except one. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Megan Zurawicz On 7/31/2012 10:01, Paul L LeBlanc wrote: > > After I was hijacked, are you the list mom who has ignored three subscribe request to rejoin the lists? > > I also sent two or three -admin messages to you expaining what happen. > > It is now almost 45 DAYS. > > Please, please, answer your -admin mail or give up the lists. I'm somewhat confused. You're on the list, but you're having a problem with me not adding you to the list. I got an email from you asking to be put back on the list. I looked and you were on the list. It didn't appear to require action or a response. --pig

Thank you, Ian ... you expressed it far better than I did a day ago or so ... PSW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Marr" <ian_marr@bigpond.net.au> To: <listowners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [LO] ADMIN NOTE: > Joan, > > I've sat back for a while while you laud the concept of just "discarding" > anything that doesn't suit you, and can't help wondering why you are a > list > administrator at all. > > I admin many lists which vary from very slow to relatively busy. There > are > many aspects to being an admin, and I try to do each justice. Welcoming > new > members, being sure I respond quickly to queries, publishing a list > etiquette fact sheet, monitoring the messages, processing incorrectly > addressed messages, dealing with the "pending" list and anything else that > may come along. I regard each of these as an integral part of the job. > > They say any job worth doing is worth doing well. I just can't see how > this > is achieved if any of us decide we won't do certain aspects because it > doesn't suit us. > > Regards, > Ian MARR > at 38° 24' 01.299" S by 142° 34' 11.9094" E; 11m above sea level > > This message can be considered to be in the public domain. > > The home of SW Victorian Cemetery indexes: > http://home.vicnet.net.au/~marr/ > Allansford Weather (10 min updates): > http://home.vicnet.net.au/~marr/Weather/ > Remember, to EVERY question in life, there is MORE than ONE correct > answer. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <JYoung6180@aol.com> > To: <pleblan@aim.com>; <listpig@earthlink.net>; <listowners@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 8:38 AM > Subject: Re: [LO] ADMIN NOTE: > > >><snip>

On 7/31/2012 10:01, Paul L LeBlanc wrote: > > After I was hijacked, are you the list mom who has ignored three subscribe request to rejoin the lists? > > I also sent two or three -admin messages to you expaining what happen. > > It is now almost 45 DAYS. > > Please, please, answer your -admin mail or give up the lists. I'm somewhat confused. You're on the list, but you're having a problem with me not adding you to the list. I got an email from you asking to be put back on the list. I looked and you were on the list. It didn't appear to require action or a response. --pig

Greetings: Another way of looking at this, which is surprisingly not understood by many list admins I fear, is that we are NOT being victimized by all this junk that comes through the -admin addresses; this is part of *US* helping prevent our *SUBSCRIBERS* from becoming victims! In other words, we are part of the solution. We are the doctors, or at least the paramedics. And you can't be a medical professional unless you are willing to be around a certain amount of sneezing, coughing, bleeding, and crying. So if you just can't handle the crud, then recognize that being a list admin may not be for you, in the long run. It has nothing to do with being a good person, it has nothing to do with being smart, it has nothing to do with how much you care about genealogy or other genealogists. The only question is, "Are you 'doctor' material?" Now, if you want hints on how to reduce the impact of the junk on yourself, *without* just ignoring everything, then this list is a great place to get ideas. Darrell

This raises a question I have intended to ask. Has RW/Ancestry figured out a way to re-sub those aol e-addresses it unsubs because of spam reporting? I ask this because for the last month or more, when an AOL-using listmember posts to me asking why they were unsubbed and/or wanting me to re-sub them, and I attempt to do so, they are already back on the list. If this only happened a couple of times, I would assume that they remembered how to re-sub themselves, but it seems to be pretty consistent. Any ideas? Carol At 04:52 PM 7/31/2012, Megan Zurawicz wrote: >On 7/31/2012 10:01, Paul L LeBlanc wrote: > > > > After I was hijacked, are you the list mom who has ignored three > subscribe request to rejoin the lists? > > > > I also sent two or three -admin messages to you expaining what happen. > > > > It is now almost 45 DAYS. > > > > Please, please, answer your -admin mail or give up the lists. > >I'm somewhat confused. You're on the list, but you're having a problem >with me not adding you to the list. > >I got an email from you asking to be put back on the list. I looked and >you were on the list. It didn't appear to require action or a response. > >--pig > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >LISTOWNERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

David, I think you have a basic misunderstanding, and what Pig says is accurate. >>> >I checked and every list I admin is already set to "Discard" >>> > >>> >and I still get those annoying requests to -admin addresses >>> > The "Discard" option relates to pending mail. It has nothing to do with "admin" mail. So, what you describe above is EXACTLY what you should be expecting. Regards, Ian MARR at 38° 24' 01.299" S by 142° 34' 11.9094" E; 11m above sea level This message can be considered to be in the public domain. The home of SW Victorian Cemetery indexes: http://home.vicnet.net.au/~marr/ Allansford Weather (10 min updates): http://home.vicnet.net.au/~marr/Weather/ Remember, to EVERY question in life, there is MORE than ONE correct answer. ----- Original Message ----- From: "W David Samuelsen" <dsam52@sampubco.com> To: <listowners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [LO] ADMIN NOTE: > Megan, you did NOT read the following message. > > David > > On 7/30/2012 8:22 PM, Megan Zurawicz wrote: >> On 7/29/2012 23:55, W David Samuelsen wrote: >>> >I checked and every list I admin is already set to "Discard" >>> > >>> >and I still get those annoying requests to -admin addresses >>> > >>> >David > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LISTOWNERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I answered a question privately about bounces ... but I thought maybe the list members could benefit from the explanation: When the lists used to use SmartList software to manage the lists we would receive EVERY BOUNCE and count each one until the threshold was reached and the address would be unsubbed (often in as little time as one day)...under MailMan that is no longer true. If a subscriber's address starts bouncing MailMan keeps track of the bounces and counts for 5 days of bounces (doesn't matter how many bounces come through in a day--only one per day counts). After 5 days (unless you change your tools settings for bounces) the address is unsubbed and you get a copy of the FINAL bounce and unsub notice. Actually MailMan just suspends the account but RootsWeb list techies set things up so that the address is then UNSUBBED from the list. MailMan also differentiates between HARD bounces and SOFT bounces and counts them differently...HARD bounces are the ones that say the address is no longer valid (meaning it isn't likely to EVER be again) and SOFT bounces are the ones that say can't deliver at this time -- which may indicate a temporary issue that will be resolved and all will be well later on. Also unlike SmartList which only counted a single subscriber bounce at a time and after that address was removed started counting another bouncer in the batch -- one at a time until each in a row got unsubbed--MailMan counts EVERY bouncer in a batch of list mail so you can see a bunch of bad addresses all being removed at one time on a list that has seen little or no activity and suddenly comes to life. Joan

I know exactly what you mean! :-) I think I assumed everyone understood what I meant, without spending too much time writing it all out. -David Reed List Administrator: MAINE, NEW-ENG-GEN, MELINCOL (Maine, Lincoln County), ME-IRISH, CEMETERIES-HISTORIC-PRESERVATION, MARIN --------------------------------------------- "Actually, there is only one 'first question' of government, and it is "How should we live?" or "What kind of people do we want our citizens to be?" - George F. Will (1941-), American political commentator  Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. -----Original Message----- From: listowners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:listowners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of JYoung6180@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 4:09 PM To: DaveReed@midmaine.com; DianaGM@dgmweb.net; Listowners-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LO] ADMIN NOTE: Well, with regard to LIST messages getting stuck in pending requests (oversize, too many addresses, etc.) or lists that require attention due to problem posters --- yes, that can vary greatly with the activity level of the list and the number of subscribers---(plus setting to DISCARD non-subscriber posts doesn't stop these from requiring attention from the admin). Some lists have hundreds of subscribers and are very active while others have just a few and seldom see any posting activity. HOWEVER, the amount of spam non-subscriber posts that require attention on a daily basis in Pending Requests has NO bearing whatsoever to the size or activity of the list. I have many lists that are extremely inactive and if I didn't set pending requests to DISCARD I'd do nothing all day long every day but run to the tools pages and delete spam! Joan In a message dated 7/31/2012 2:12:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, davereed@midmaine.com writes: Personally, I think it varies greatly depending on the list. Some lists may need attention every day (but those seem to be far and few between these days, since the lists in general are so much slower than they used to be...), but so many others only need to be checked now and then. I think a great way to do it is to have a partner, and one admin co-admins for the other, and the other co-admins for them, so, as long as you aren't both away on vacation the same week, it seems to work out great. I'm lucky to have a great list partner! :-) -David Reed ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LISTOWNERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well, with regard to LIST messages getting stuck in pending requests (oversize, too many addresses, etc.) or lists that require attention due to problem posters --- yes, that can vary greatly with the activity level of the list and the number of subscribers---(plus setting to DISCARD non-subscriber posts doesn't stop these from requiring attention from the admin). Some lists have hundreds of subscribers and are very active while others have just a few and seldom see any posting activity. HOWEVER, the amount of spam non-subscriber posts that require attention on a daily basis in Pending Requests has NO bearing whatsoever to the size or activity of the list. I have many lists that are extremely inactive and if I didn't set pending requests to DISCARD I'd do nothing all day long every day but run to the tools pages and delete spam! Joan In a message dated 7/31/2012 2:12:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, davereed@midmaine.com writes: Personally, I think it varies greatly depending on the list. Some lists may need attention every day (but those seem to be far and few between these days, since the lists in general are so much slower than they used to be...), but so many others only need to be checked now and then. I think a great way to do it is to have a partner, and one admin co-admins for the other, and the other co-admins for them, so, as long as you aren't both away on vacation the same week, it seems to work out great. I'm lucky to have a great list partner! :-) -David Reed

I dunno. I go months without mail to the -admin account, and I go days without actionable not-a-subscriber notices. Seems silly to check every day. Cheryl Diana Gale Matthiesen wrote: > If an admin is going to be "out of service" for more than a day, they need to take on a co-admin to manage the list. Or come here to this list and ask someone to admin temporarily while they're gone. If they're chronically too busy to come online and check their email every day, they need to give up their list(s) because they're just not "listadmin material." > > IMO, of course. > > Diana > > >> From: David Reed >> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 11:20 AM >> >> That's unfortunate. Of course, you never know what's going on in >> someone's life, and some Admins are responsive in a way that others >> can't be, simply due to their own life circumstances (ie, a retired >> person who does genealogy all day, vs. someone with a family at >> home, a FT job, etc, and is active, but, not in front of a computer >> -every- day.) >> >> I know I struggle to have an appropriate "life-balance", all the way >> around!

Well, maybe a day is not reasonable... anybody can get sick with a bad cold, have computer problems, or have something that would interfere with being able to check mail for a day of two. However, if an admin doesn't answer a question for a Lister in a week or two then the listmaster should consider contacting them to see if anything is wrong or if they are AWOL. J. Asche On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Diana Gale Matthiesen <DianaGM@dgmweb.net> wrote: > If an admin is going to be "out of service" for more than a day, they need to take on a co-admin to manage the list. Or come here to this list and ask someone to admin temporarily while they're gone. If they're chronically too busy to come online and check their email every day, they need to give up their list(s) because they're just not "listadmin material." > > IMO, of course. > > Diana > >

I think we have no business attempting to impose our own standards upon other folks. You do not know anything about others' situations, their number of adminned lists, the frequency of postings on their lists etc. If you are happy with the way you run your business that's fine but please do not tell me it is also the way I should run mine. Some opinions are better kept to ourselves. Jim -----Original Message----- From: listowners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:listowners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Diana Gale Matthiesen Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 1:39 PM To: Listowners-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LO] ADMIN NOTE: If an admin is going to be "out of service" for more than a day, they need to take on a co-admin to manage the list. Or come here to this list and ask someone to admin temporarily while they're gone. If they're chronically too busy to come online and check their email every day, they need to give up their list(s) because they're just not "listadmin material." IMO, of course. Diana

AMEN! On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Jim Jackson <popsjackson@charter.net> wrote: > I think we have no business attempting to impose our own standards upon > other folks. You do not know anything about others' situations, their > number of adminned lists, the frequency of postings on their lists etc. If > you are happy with the way you run your business that's fine but please do > not tell me it is also the way I should run mine. Some opinions are better > kept to ourselves. > > Jim -- ~~~~~ Take care, Kathie Harrison Lancaster Co., NEGenWeb http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nelancas/

Personally, I think it varies greatly depending on the list. Some lists may need attention every day (but those seem to be far and few between these days, since the lists in general are so much slower than they used to be...), but so many others only need to be checked now and then. I think a great way to do it is to have a partner, and one admin co-admins for the other, and the other co-admins for them, so, as long as you aren't both away on vacation the same week, it seems to work out great. I'm lucky to have a great list partner! :-) -David Reed List Administrator: MAINE, NEW-ENG-GEN, MELINCOL (Maine, Lincoln County), ME-IRISH, CEMETERIES-HISTORIC-PRESERVATION, MARIN --------------------------------------------- "Actually, there is only one 'first question' of government, and it is "How should we live?" or "What kind of people do we want our citizens to be?" - George F. Will (1941-), American political commentator  Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. -----Original Message----- From: listowners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:listowners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Diana Gale Matthiesen Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 1:39 PM To: Listowners-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LO] ADMIN NOTE: If an admin is going to be "out of service" for more than a day, they need to take on a co-admin to manage the list. Or come here to this list and ask someone to admin temporarily while they're gone. If they're chronically too busy to come online and check their email every day, they need to give up their list(s) because they're just not "listadmin material." IMO, of course. Diana > From: David Reed > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 11:20 AM > > That's unfortunate. Of course, you never know what's going on in > someone's life, and some Admins are responsive in a way that others > can't be, simply due to their own life circumstances (ie, a retired > person who does genealogy all day, vs. someone with a family at home, > a FT job, etc, and is active, but, not in front of a computer > -every- day.) > > I know I struggle to have an appropriate "life-balance", all the way > around! > > -David Reed ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LISTOWNERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If an admin is going to be "out of service" for more than a day, they need to take on a co-admin to manage the list. Or come here to this list and ask someone to admin temporarily while they're gone. If they're chronically too busy to come online and check their email every day, they need to give up their list(s) because they're just not "listadmin material." IMO, of course. Diana > From: David Reed > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 11:20 AM > > That's unfortunate. Of course, you never know what's going on in > someone's life, and some Admins are responsive in a way that others > can't be, simply due to their own life circumstances (ie, a retired > person who does genealogy all day, vs. someone with a family at > home, a FT job, etc, and is active, but, not in front of a computer > -every- day.) > > I know I struggle to have an appropriate "life-balance", all the way > around! > > -David Reed

David- My comments you quoted were directed to Paul--I wasn't referring to your situation with SpamCop. As to your situation...I can only say that HOLD is the default and the OPTION to change to DISCARD was added by RootsWeb list techies due to the vast amount of spam coming to pending requests for our lists over time. Joan In a message dated 7/31/2012 1:10:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dsam52@sampubco.com writes: Joan, nope, it's quite different situtation. I was never unsubbed during that time. I was able to receive every post (already reviewed archives), just that outgoing side that was a problem temporarily. If there were any during that time, they were bounced right back as undeliverable. It was only one message and that prompted me to send a message direct to you, alerting to the problem and you had to get into your AOL spam folder to rescue my messages at least twice. the Question about Discard and Hold was well after the problem with outgoing was resolved. I didn't send any to listowners-admin the whole time. That is why I asked if Discard was the default after you mentioned it and I was criticized for asking this question despite the fact I never knew about this feature before and every one of 21 lists I have has that setting to "Discard" since I know I did not change that setting myself at all. David S.

That's unfortunate. Of course, you never know what's going on in someone's life, and some Admins are responsive in a way that others can't be, simply due to their own life circumstances (ie, a retired person who does genealogy all day, vs. someone with a family at home, a FT job, etc, and is active, but, not in front of a computer -every- day.) I know I struggle to have an appropriate "life-balance", all the way around! -David Reed List Administrator: MAINE, NEW-ENG-GEN, MELINCOL (Maine, Lincoln County), ME-IRISH, CEMETERIES-HISTORIC-PRESERVATION, MARIN --------------------------------------------- "Actually, there is only one 'first question' of government, and it is "How should we live?" or "What kind of people do we want our citizens to be?" - George F. Will (1941-), American political commentator  Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. -----Original Message----- From: listowners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:listowners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lynne Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 10:55 AM To: listowners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LO] ADMIN NOTE: Unfortunately, there seem to be some admins that don't answer email from subscribers. Frustrating. :-( Lynne -----Original Message----- >In a message dated 7/31/2012 10:17:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >pleblan@aim.com writes: > >It is now almost 45 DAYS. > >Please, please, answer your -admin mail or give up the lists ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LISTOWNERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message