On 8/12/06, Keith Elmo Eldridge <Elmo@aphelia.co.uk> wrote: > > and this migration's testing has been far from extensive or intensive. > There's ALREADY a sign of a problem ... don't know if any other poster has experienced this ... but, in 'response' to my two prior postings in this thread, I received the following in response to each ... From: postoffice <postoffice> Mailed-By: earthlink.net To: mjmgenealogy@gmail.com Date: Aug 12, 2006 9:22 PM Subject: Returned mail: User unknown The original message was received at 2006-08-12 19:18:30 -0700 from postoffice.local. [10.0.0.1] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- <dixiesmith@earthlink.net> -----Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to postoffice.local..: >>> RCPT To:<dixiesmith@earthlink.net> <<< 550 5.1.1 unknown or illegal alias: dixiesmith@earthlink.net 550 <dixiesmith@earthlink.net>... User unknown and so on, and so on .... I, as a subscriber, have NEVER received these kind of messages before. I believe this is the 'stuff' that list admins usually deal with. Why did 'I' receive TWO of these? Perhaps a 'glitch'? a flaw in the system, perhaps? This is the kind of thing I suspect will become more numerous as the 'migration' is implemented. Not just changing filters, etc. but cleaning up the 'fallout'.

Thank you Joan, I got a really good laugh out of your comments...Your right, and some of the things being said here we betta testers talked about too. There are good reasons for ancestry.com doing this switch. 1. We can now be white listed by the ISP's .. Some of you are saying WHAT? Well, the old system does not provide an unsubscribe message on all emails from rootsweb.com. To be white listed / not have an ISP refuse to recieve rootsweb.com mailings every message must include how to unsubscribe. 2. The old system had been adjusted so many times that there was no way to update it.. That's one of the reasons they will not adjust or rewrite some of the software to get what we want, the problem would just be moved on to mailman.. which will get updates to the system when needed... 3. then there is the fact that old software does not work on new computers.. We might even be in for new servers that would not or could not use the old system.. Now this is just my opinion and not something I know... but in the last few years we have had all sorts of server problems at rootsweb, so maybe they needed this to upgrade to new servers??? who knows... I do not like change I get settled into a routine and like it that way... but this system is not hard to learn, and as Joan SAID THEY ARE MOVING THE LISTS... Lets try to make it a productive affair... Instead of looking at the negitive! Nelda Nelda's websites - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ yDNA tests for Hurst, Beatty, Gilpin; all male relatives ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Asche" <jasche45133@gmail.com> To: <list-update@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 6:14 PM Subject: [LIST-UPDATE] Suggestion > Hi, > > I would like to request a new mailing list rootsweb-complainers -- or > how about hissy-fit-i'm-not-getting-my-own-way > > Okay -- just kidding really. But really folks the fact of life is > that the list migration is going to happen regardless -- even if you > don't like something. > > The system is in place so lets give it a try -- if you have any > questions someone will be around to answer your questions but really > folks all this complaining will get you nowhere because it's going to > happen they way it set up and no amount of griping will change that. > > Okay I feel better now. > > Joan Asche

Reply to all gives me to "Dan M" <wb@wvi.com> cc <list-update@rootsweb.com> Reply to gives me to Dan M <list-update@rootsweb.com> My mail program acknowledges the poster at the list address, not all programs do that, but as you can see, reply to only goes to the list, but reply all does go to poster *and* list. Elaine Take nothing but ancestors, leave nothing but records. Hello Dan On Saturday, August 12, 2006, you wrote > I just noticed that using regular ( reply ) > sends a message like ( reply to all ) > This IS not going to work/ > just wont - it will give double messages and > create so much sorting and > deleting it will be unbearable for over 30 lists. > Why cant this be set like it was before - > You mean all the lists are going to send 2 > messages to people for every > reply ??????? > HUH?? > Dan M >

Hi, I would like to request a new mailing list rootsweb-complainers -- or how about hissy-fit-i'm-not-getting-my-own-way Okay -- just kidding really. But really folks the fact of life is that the list migration is going to happen regardless -- even if you don't like something. The system is in place so lets give it a try -- if you have any questions someone will be around to answer your questions but really folks all this complaining will get you nowhere because it's going to happen they way it set up and no amount of griping will change that. Okay I feel better now. Joan Asche

Please, don't lecture me about procedure. I am aware of NO program, that after having gone through even very extensive, intensive beta testing, launches with absolutely NO glitches. I STILL say that the timing for this 'transition' .... is .... (how can I say this politely?) .... NOT in the best interest of MANY genealogists! AND, if Ancestry tries to brag about their actions at the FGS... I'll be SURE to let them know my opinion of their latest 'stunt'. In plain English, as the kids say, their timing 's.u.c.k.s'!. On 8/12/06, Joan Asche <jasche45133@gmail.com> wrote: > It's my understanding that the BETA testing is over (I could be wrong > about this) because a number of lists and their admins worked as BETA > testers to smooth the process over for the rest of us. > > There will a period of adjustment -- life have lots of them -- we > manage to survive them and I'm sure this one will be no different. > > J. Asche

At 08:52 PM 8/12/2006, you wrote: >Address books will need to be updated... although the -L in the >address will still >work, it is unnecessary to include it when sending mail to the list, >nor is it necessary to include in in unsubscription messages for >EITHER mode-- L or D. Lauren, You must use the -D-request to subscribe in the digest mode. Regards, Tom Hesler

It's my understanding that the BETA testing is over (I could be wrong about this) because a number of lists and their admins worked as BETA testers to smooth the process over for the rest of us. There will a period of adjustment -- life have lots of them -- we manage to survive them and I'm sure this one will be no different. J. Asche On 8/12/06, mjmgenealogy@gmail.com <mjmgenealogy@gmail.com> wrote: > Kathie, > > I'm only a subscriber to a rather large number of lists .... BUT, I > think the timing of this 'phasing in' of a new system is terrible. > The FGS conference starts later this month, just days after this is > supposed to be 'finished'.Many people are heading out early to do > research in the area, or staying on later. > Beta testing doesn't always expose all the 'bugs', and if there are > any major problems that pop up, it's a lousy time to have to deal with > them! > > IMHO, Ancestry probably wanted to brag in the exhibit hall, and rushed > to get it 'finished'. > > This phase in should have either started about 3 weeks ago, or should > have been put off until near the end of September. > > Just my 2 cents, > Maureen b

Lauren are you saying this list is strictly for those who subscribe to the various lists? kemis ----- Original Message ----- From: Lauren Boyd Kathie: ListOwners and ListDevelopment lists are archived. Rod's posts ARE there. As I understand it, this list is primarily for USER assistance and we have already been told to take Administrative matters to the LO list, as repeats in every footer for this list. ********************************************* > This list is reserved for discussion of topics related to the update of the mailing lists. List Admins should discuss admin-specific topics (like settings and tools) on the ListOwners-L@rootsweb.com list. ********************************************* Cheers, Lauren ************************** This list is reserved for discussion of topics related to the update of the mailing lists. List Admins should discuss admin-specific topics (like settings and tools) on the ListOwners-L@rootsweb.com list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LIST-UPDATE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/417 - Release Date: 8/11/06

a question? If we are not going to get the bounces - how we gonna know when there is a problem ? Dan M

I take it that the average lister, who isn't either one of those things you mentioned, won't have to do anything? Janet

Kathie, I'm only a subscriber to a rather large number of lists .... BUT, I think the timing of this 'phasing in' of a new system is terrible. The FGS conference starts later this month, just days after this is supposed to be 'finished'.Many people are heading out early to do research in the area, or staying on later. Beta testing doesn't always expose all the 'bugs', and if there are any major problems that pop up, it's a lousy time to have to deal with them! IMHO, Ancestry probably wanted to brag in the exhibit hall, and rushed to get it 'finished'. This phase in should have either started about 3 weeks ago, or should have been put off until near the end of September. Just my 2 cents, Maureen On 8/12/06, Kathie Harrison <harrison28@gmail.com> wrote: > I am curious as to why you, Lauren, are asking anyone to move off this > topic. Under the circumstances many of the list admins are very > dismayed that Rootsweb did not choose to give us a few weeks notice > about this major change. Many admins have multiple lists with hundreds > of subscribers, and I fail to see why we should not be upset about > being given some DUE RESPECT as volunteers to know what the devil is > going to take place more than just a mere few days from the event. I > also fail to see the purpose of this list if we can't be discussing > it. > > I am sure this is looking more and more like a super huge Migraine to > many of us. JMHO

At 05:44 PM 8/12/2006, you wrote: >Dear Listers: > >Rod hashed and hashed and rehashed this already on the List Development list. >I don't see any reason to repeat that discussion here. His comments and >concerns WERE brought to the BETA list. I really would rather not have to >read a third round of this which has become a moot point. So we non-beta testers should be left out of the loop again? Your third round is my first. Sheesh. Take it up with Rod privately if you will. I'd rather have a simple message from the list manager of this list to say "We discussed this. There are benefits to us, and we made our decison" that should put a stop to it - or maybe your explanation below would have done it if you had left off the personalities and the reference to what you didn't want to hear. Margaret

I have got these on RW before if I had replied to the list and a bad address, and/or maybe they had their reply to field filled out to reply to them . Dan M ----- Original Message ----- From: <mjmgenealogy@gmail.com> To: <list-update@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [LIST-UPDATE] Just so nobody can claim having had nocomplaints... > On 8/12/06, Keith Elmo Eldridge <Elmo@aphelia.co.uk> wrote: > > > > and this migration's testing has been far from extensive or intensive. > > > > > There's ALREADY a sign of a problem ... don't know if any other poster > has experienced this ... but, in 'response' to my two prior postings > in this thread, I received the following in response to each ...

Yea I felt the same way every time RW did something w/o telling us about it. It happened - we got used to it and some might not remember what it was before even. I like learning about mail man any how I was going to study it on my own, but now look at all the help I have <G> Dan M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Asche" <jasche45133@gmail.com> To: <list-update@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 6:14 PM Subject: [LIST-UPDATE] Suggestion > Hi, > > I would like to request a new mailing list rootsweb-complainers -- or > how about hissy-fit-i'm-not-getting-my-own-way > > Okay -- just kidding really. But really folks the fact of life is > that the list migration is going to happen regardless -- even if you > don't like something. > > The system is in place so lets give it a try -- if you have any > questions someone will be around to answer your questions but really > folks all this complaining will get you nowhere because it's going to > happen they way it set up and no amount of griping will change that. > > Okay I feel better now. > > Joan Asche

> > Lauren I am WELL aware of LO as I have been on it for a long time. I > have been an admin for 9 years. I know these lists are archived. But > WHAT I am saying to you is that you are NOT the ADMIN of this list > that I am aware of and I think you are being pushy telling we ADMINS > to move the discussion to LO. Are you the LO of this list, Lauren? If so, if you have topics you want discussed, please let us know. Like you, I was in the Beta test and am aware of the Mailman utilities. Some LOs who weren't in the Beta test are asking legitimate questions, not only about Mailman but also about the purpose of this list, versus the LO list. If you are the list admin, how about telling us the difference between the two lists. If you aren't the LO, how about the real LO standing up and telling us. I now belong to both lists and find that Lauren seems to be the expert on both lists. Are you a Rootsweb employee? You also gave advice on my Clan-MacLean list after I had sent and Admin Msg about the switch. It seemed odd since I had never seen you post to the list previously. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA, list admin since 1996 when it used to cost money to own a list, now with 67 lists http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

I've no doubt that the developers are Good People, and that they have worked very hard. But stifling criticism is not going to guarantee the smooth transition that everyone wants. As for their posting on Saturday, I believe that springing this on the whole user/developer community early on a Saturday morning -- with the first block of conversions scheduled for Tuesday -- sorta requires some responsible presence, no? -R. Lauren Boyd wrote: >Jackie, Steve, Rod: > >This in NO way will compare to the experience in 2001. >I recall that... 3000 messages re boards in about a 24 >hour period. > >Melissa, Rob and others that have been working on this >migration and testing have been very responsive and desire >to have it go as smoothly as possible. > >Consider that their normal work week is M-F and we have >gotten responses from them today... SATURDAY. > >Give them a bit of a break. We have our minor number of >lists to deal with... they have over 30,000. > >And as someone that codes web pages, I can tell you that some >things that are simple are often overlooked. Especially if you have >been up burning the midnight oil. > >The overall migration should go off without a hitch for the users. >Be prepared for a good experience. > >Cheers, > >Lauren > > > -- Regards, Rod Dav4is / P.O. Box 118 / Hyde Park, NY 12538 / USA Genealogy, et Cetera: http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~dav4is/ 447 ancestral & collateral families, mostly 17°-19° century New England & European roots. Total population: 108,300+ Annex: http://www.gencircles.com/users/dav4is/ email: DAV4IS@YAHOO.COM "We have met the enemy, and he is us!" -Pogo Possum (1970)

Please Un-scribe me righ now. Thanks Lauren Boyd <listsmonster@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Manaia: This indeed, applies to all Rootsweb lists. Some, but not all, users like to subscribe in both modes, whereas, Admins are required to subscribe in both modes to ensure all is well with them. Subscribers will need to subscribe to each mode from a different address. Admins can use their List Admin Address to subscribe in one mode and their personal address to subscribe to the other mode. As our Admin addresses are "alias" we will receive the list and digest modes in the same mail box. Cheers, Lauren On 8/12/06, manaia alofa wrote: > If you would like to subscribe to the list digest, please send an email with the word "subscribeEin the subject line to: > List-Update-D-request@rootsweb.com > > Are you subscribed to both the regular and digest modes of a list with a single email address? > The new list management system does not support a single email address being subscribed to both the mail (regular delivery) and the digest at the same time. > > This means you will no longer be able to receive both the digest and the regular delivery (ELE versions of the list at the same email address. If you are currently subscribed to both ELEand EDEwith the same address, you will only continue to be subscribed to regular delivery when the list is migrated. You will need to subscribe to the list digest with a different email address. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. > > +++++++++++++++ > > Does the above statement[s] pertain only to the List-Update List? or to ALL Rootsweb Lists? > > Please clarify what is a bit hazy to me right now. > > I don't think I'd like subscribing to -L and the -D lists with two different addys for every List I admin to and/or subscribe to -- H-E-L-P! > > If something is broke, fix it -- I'm just the volunteer with no more means of fixing damaged goods than my poor pockets -- I am broke! > > Regards, > --Manaia > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > ************************** > This list is reserved for discussion of topics related to the update of the mailing lists. List Admins should discuss admin-specific topics (like settings and tools) on the ListOwners-L@rootsweb.com list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LIST-UPDATE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ************************** This list is reserved for discussion of topics related to the update of the mailing lists. List Admins should discuss admin-specific topics (like settings and tools) on the ListOwners-L@rootsweb.com list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LIST-UPDATE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Un subscribe me JYoung6180@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 8/12/2006 10:33:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, dav4is@yahoo.com writes: To be precise, SOME of my posts are there -- up to the point where I was summarily barred from posting without warning or notification. (How rude!) And don't be so presumptuous as to tell me that I had nothing more to add! Y'all just didn't want to hear any complaints -- and still don't. You can't make a smooth transition by stifling criticism. -R. Rod- No one prevented you from making your comments and expressing your point of view. Others also stated theirs. Once everyone had a chance to comment and put their views on the table--then all we can do is drop it and leave the decision-making to those in charge. The decision of how to handle the situation isn't ours to make once we have given our opinion. That was the point at which the discussion was ended as I recall-when it was drifting into argument rather than presenting opinions on list development. Joan ************************** This list is reserved for discussion of topics related to the update of the mailing lists. List Admins should discuss admin-specific topics (like settings and tools) on the ListOwners-L@rootsweb.com list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LIST-UPDATE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

At 07:43 PM 8/12/2006, you wrote: >Thanks Dan for clearing some things up and bringing up other >issues. Please don't admonish me for my questions as I signed up as >soon as I got the 1st email and am trying to follow what is going on. > >I have three email addresses now - personal, business and >genealogy. Which means I will have to have a 4 which my ISP will >not allow because my hubbie has 2 addresses - personal and business >- 5 is our limit. So you say join one of the "free" email lists >which will emendate me with more spam. I get enough now, thanks >allot. My life is really going to be fun. Please keep in mind we >are only volunteers for this. Seems like I might as well chunk my >personal research to become a total administrator. > >No tag lines and I do read them because some have good >information. I use taglines on my county lists to encourage others >to donate to the list or to archives. So now that's gone, which >means no more donatations of county or family info. > >And this is an improvement how? > >Kemis Massey Kemis, It seems most have missed the email Joan posted earlier as to how an administrator can receive the digest without using a personal address, with Mailman you can subscribe the LISTNAME-Admin@rootsweb.com address (replace LISTNAME with the name of the list) to the list in the digest mose and it will send the digest to you as administrator. Those of us who have been Beta testers have done this almost from day one of testing and it works very well. Regards, Tom Hesler