Hi Brian, I have looked for John Eaglesfield's death date in Pennsylvania. Unfortunately, Pennsylvania is apparently one of the states who guards their privacy jealously. There are not many sites that offer vital records, and none of them offer an index (like England's) or the opportunity for non-relatives or non-direct line relatives to see records or order death certificates even if they qualify without a stiff fee. So, I have to report failure to find John's death date. However at age 87 on the 1920 census, I think you could safely assume that he died between 1920 and 1930, as you have done. Keep checking, Perhaps later, Pennsylvania will release more information from this time period. In the US, it is not the Federal government that has control over the vital records other than requiring states to have a system for keeping records of births, marriages, divorces, and deaths. Each state is responsible for making their own policies and procedures regarding keeping the records. Some states are very open with their records like Missouri who has posted images of the documents online for free viewing. Others, like Pennsylvania require persons to make application to even find out if they qualify to be "let in on the secret!" If they do, the fees for finding out could be quite expensive. After Social Security was enacted by the Federal Government sometime in the 1930's it was easier for people to find out at least the death dates from the Social Security Death Index (SSDI)that is online at Ancestry.com. Unfortunately, John Eaglesfield narrowly missed out on this! I think you indicated that you had most of the information from the Immigration and the Censuses starting in 1869-70. I found John on all of the Censuses between 1870 and 1920 except for 1890 and 1910. Naturally, the 1890 census that would have told us the most about the lives of families prior to the turn of the century was totally destroyed by fire in 1921. Only a couple of district records remain because they were being used in another building at the time. This was a critical time in many immigrant's lives and the loss of the 1890 Census to genealogists and family historians is extremely frustrating. (Like military documents in England!) For instance, did you notice in your search that John's wife, Anne, either died or left the family between 1880 and 1895? The 1900 census shows that John has a new wife, "Cammilla", and they have been married for about 5 years. Depending on the date of your letter, perhaps this has something to do with John's wife looking ill in the photo! All of his children seem to have moved on because John and Cammilla are living on their own. John also became a farmer between 1880 and 1900. John was listed as a coal miner in 1870. In 1880 he was a laborer, and finally, in 1900 he was a farmer. Did you find the 1880 census when you were looking during a free Ancestry.com time? I wondered because the Eaglesfields are not indexed on Ancestry.com with any sort of spelling in 1880. I found them by paging through 45 images of Butler County, Allegheny Township. They were on Image 37--very plainly written as Eaglesfield. Just in case, John was 49, Anna 51, Mary 18, Elisabeth 16, Isabella 12, all born in England. Susannah 10, and George 6 were both born in Pennsylvania. I found the 1870 and 1880 censuses interesting because they clearly state that Isabella was born in England. If so, why wasn't she enumerated on the passenger manifest for the Etna? Since Isabella was obviously born in England if the family emigrated from England in 1869, she should have been on the manifest. It is ludicrous to entertain the notion that a three year old would travel in steerage across the Atlantic alone, so she must have been on the Etna with the rest of her family. I will keep the census research I have on John for a few weeks in case you have questions. Happy Eaglesfield Hunting! --Carolyn, in Minnesota, USA

Hello Carolyn,   I received a monthly update for Ancestry this morning (Wednesday) in which is offered a new site for PA Church and Town BMD  records. Perhaps the Eaglesfield family that you have been helping with are included in that ?      I have not yet subscribed to Ancestry so have not tried to  check.   Hope this is of some help.   Madeline in California --- On Wed, 2/8/12, Charles Sidebottom <[email protected]> wrote: From: Charles Sidebottom <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters - the last one To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, February 8, 2012, 7:59 AM Hi Brian, I have looked for John Eaglesfield's death date in Pennsylvania. Unfortunately, Pennsylvania is apparently one of the states who guards their privacy jealously.  There are not many sites that offer vital records, and none of them offer an index (like England's) or the opportunity for non-relatives or non-direct line relatives to see records or order death certificates even if they qualify without a stiff fee.  So, I have to report failure to find John's death date.  However at age 87 on the 1920 census, I think you could safely assume that he died between 1920 and 1930, as you have done.  Keep checking, Perhaps later, Pennsylvania will release more information from this time period.  In the US, it is not the Federal government that has control over the vital records other than requiring states to have a system for keeping records of births, marriages, divorces, and deaths.  Each state is responsible for making their own policies and procedures regarding keeping the records. Some states are very open with their records like Missouri who has posted images of the documents online for free viewing.  Others, like Pennsylvania require persons to make application to even find out if they qualify to be "let in on the secret!" If they do, the fees for finding out could be quite expensive.   After Social Security was enacted by the Federal Government sometime in the 1930's it was easier for people to find out at least the death dates from the Social Security Death Index (SSDI)that is online at Ancestry.com. Unfortunately, John Eaglesfield narrowly missed out on this! I think you indicated that you had most of the information from the Immigration and the Censuses starting in 1869-70.  I found John on all of the Censuses between 1870 and 1920 except for 1890 and 1910.  Naturally, the 1890 census that would have told us the most about the lives of families prior to the turn of the century was totally destroyed by fire in 1921. Only a couple of district records remain because they were being used in another building at the time.  This was a critical time in many immigrant's lives and the loss of the 1890 Census to genealogists and family historians is extremely frustrating.  (Like military documents in England!) For instance, did you notice in your search that John's wife, Anne, either died or left the family between 1880 and 1895?  The 1900 census shows that John has a new wife, "Cammilla", and they have been married for about 5 years.  Depending on the date of your letter, perhaps this has something to do with John's wife looking ill in the photo!  All of his children seem to have moved on because John and Cammilla are living on their own.  John also became a farmer between 1880 and 1900.  John was listed as a coal miner in 1870.  In 1880 he was a laborer, and finally, in 1900 he was a farmer. Did you find the 1880 census when you were looking during a free Ancestry.com time?  I wondered because the Eaglesfields are not indexed on Ancestry.com with any sort of spelling in 1880.  I found them by paging through 45 images of Butler County, Allegheny Township.  They were on Image 37--very plainly written as Eaglesfield.  Just in case, John was 49, Anna 51, Mary 18, Elisabeth 16, Isabella 12, all born in England.  Susannah 10, and George 6 were both born in Pennsylvania. I found the 1870 and 1880 censuses interesting because they clearly state that Isabella was born in England.  If so, why wasn't she enumerated on the passenger manifest for the Etna?  Since Isabella was obviously born in England if the family emigrated from England in 1869, she should have been on the manifest.  It is ludicrous to entertain the notion that a three year old would travel in steerage across the Atlantic alone, so she must have been on the Etna with the rest of her family. I will keep the census research I have on John for a few weeks in case you have questions.  Happy Eaglesfield Hunting!  --Carolyn, in Minnesota, USA ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message