In hopes that someone who subscribes to this List will see something familiar in my research and will write to me, I am posting a description of my search for my Thomas Noble's family. Please write to me if you have any interest in my Noble family. Ted Noble P.O. Box 837 Gualala Ca 95445 >My ancestor immigrant is Thomas Noble, born ca >1632, in England. Our first documented >reference to Thomas is in _The History and >Antiquities of Boston__ by Samuel G. Drake, >1856: "Jan. 5, 1654, Thomas Noble admitted an >inhabitant." We know that he helped settled >Westfield, Massachusetts, and worked as a >tailor. Records of John Pynchon, who owned the >"country store" in Westfield, show that Thomas >borrowed money ca 1657 from Pynchon. Pynchon's >account book lists: "To what I pd. for yor >passage to and fro. Engld, and for yor charges >(beside what I give you) as in my pocket booke, >£16 00. 00." > >Thomas married Hannah Warriner in 1660. Hannah >was born in Massachusetts, so we know he didn't >return to get his wife. Assuming that he made >the expensive trip to collect an inheritance, I >have searched for a Noble family that had a son >Thomas, the age of my Thomas, who was given an >inheritance and was mentioned in his father's >will. > >In the late eighties, my wife Freda and I made >two trips to England to search for Thomas' >family. We spent some time examining the >records in London and the only serious lead was >a Thomas Noble, the pin maker, who lived in >London at the right time and had a son Thomas. > >In 1991-92, I engaged the services of a >professional British genealogist, Ian Hilder, >B.A. (Hons.) to research the English origin of >Thomas Noble. He did an outstanding job of >investigating all pertinent genealogical records >to find a likely ancestral tie-in. While >nothing conclusive was ever found, his work did >turn up some very interesting leads. > >In the wills of the Prerogative Court of >Canterbury (PCC Wills), he located a will for >the London (St. Giles, Crippledgate) pin maker >named Thomas Noble. The pin makers were members >of the Merchant Tailor Guild. The will was >proved in 1649/50 and named a son, Thomas, to >receive an inheritance at age 21. Research in >the parish records of St. Giles, Cripplegate, >revealed that this Thomas, son of the pin- >maker, was born in 1635/36, making him 14 or 15 >years old at the time of his father's death. He >would have had, in the judgement of Mr. Hilder, >considerable knowledge of the tailoring trade >and likely would have begun an apprenticeship in >that trade. > >In the card files of the Society of >Genealogists, London, Mr. Hilder located a >record of research by a noted British >genealogist named Cotton for a Utah woman in >1963, that settled on Thomas Noble, the >pin-maker, as a likely choice fo rthe father of >our Massachusetts Thomas Noble. Efforts to >locate this woman by correspondence to the >address given in 1963 failed. > >If Thomas Noble, son of the London pin-maker, >were indeed our Thomas Noble of >Springfield/Westfield, he would have been only >17 years old upon his arrival in Boston in >1651/52. However, he would have been just 21 >years old in 1656, the date of the entry in the >John Pynchon account book that mentions his >return to England. > >The will of Thomas Noble, the pin -maker, >mentioned a brother, Richard, of Owston, >Leicestershire. If a will for this Richard >could be found, it might possibly mention a >nephew, Thomas, in New England. This was made a >future research goal, and during a recent visit >to the LDS library in Salt Lake, I pursued this >lead with the results mentioned below. > >Mr. Hilder, in his research efforts during the >time he worked for me, reported that he had >searched the International Genealogical Index >for Leicestershire and found only one >possibility for brothers named Thomas and >Richard Noble: >1587, Jan 16, Thomas, son of John Noble >1593, Sept 12, Richard, son of John Noble. >Both of Gainsborough Parish. > >However, I found upon examination of the same >IGI for the pertinent time period that >Gainsborough Parish was situated in >Lincolnshire, not Leicestershire. This was not >discouraging for adjoining Gainsborough was an >Owston Parish, same spelling as the Leicester >Owston. > >Calendars of Wills and Administrationss at >Lincoln, ed. c.w.Foster, Vol. 4, London, British >Record Society, 1930, p. 124., listed wills for >John Noble, Mercer, Gainsborough, 1611, and for >Richard Noble, merchant, Barcroftes, >Gainsborough, 1640-59. A search in the >microfilm indices in the British record section >at LDS led to the will of John, but not Richard. >The will of Richard obviously exists, but that >will require time to patiently go through >microfilm. I received help in extracting the >pertinent details of John Noble's will. Richard >was the executor of the will in which John left >a substantial inheritance to his son Thomas, >provided Thomas continue in his father's trade, >whatever that may have been. There were six >sons and three daughters mentioned in John's >will. There is nothing in the will to either >prove or disprove that Thomas, the father, >became the London pin-maker. Among the >Gainsborough, Lincoln wills is also a will for >Ann Noble, wife of John, which was proved in >1660-1663. This will, like that of Richard, >needs to be searched out and read for any >confirmation of her son's status or the >possibility of a reference to her grandson in >New England. > >My search was then directed to the early records >of the Massachusetts Bay Colony and the town of >Boston to determine whether they prescribed any >minimum age for a new inhabitant. Could a >17-year-old boy migrate to New England and be >permitted status as a settler? Nothing in the >records for the period 1640-1660 established any >specific qualification of age. In 1649, a new >category of immigrant called "inhabitant" >appeared in Boston Town records. Such a person >need not be required to be a church member nor >to possess and develop land but must have a >skill or trade needed in the new colony. A >17-year-old boy (man) could, of course, be under >servitude to another established settler, >especially if he was skilled in a trade. > >Robert Innes in his fascinating book, _Labor in >a New Land_, traces the working lives of a >number of early Springfield residents whose >names regularly appear in the store account >books of William and then John Pynchon. The >theme of Innes' book is that through accumulated >indebtedness to John Pynchon's store, the latter >became a virtual ruler of Springfield. Innes >makes the statement that the age of workers >through all trade categories ranged from 18 to >35. > >It seems probable that Thomas was under service >to another individual for a few years after his >arrival in 1651/52. The town records of >Springfield note that Thomas was first granted >land at a town meeting on Jan 30, 1655. > Late last year, we employed the services of professional genealogist, Jean M. Fanthorpe, MA, of Lincoln, to research the parish records and wills of Gainsborough, Lincolnshire, in order to prove or disprove a connection between Thomas and Richard Noble of Gainsborough and the Thomas Noble, pin maker of London and his brother Richard. > >"on first glance what did spring to mind was >that there was an OUSTON in Leicestershire, >whereas it is OWSTON in Lincolnshire [although >spelling in the earlier periods was not >standardised], the latter being two Parishes >north of Gainsborough. Having just checked the >IGI I can agree that the entries for Richard and >Thomas, baptised to John Noble for the dates you >give, are indeed given as Gainsborough, >Lincolnshire, and at no time was Gainsborough >ever in the county of Leicestershire. The >county of Nottinghamshire borders both >Gainsborough and Owston, but on the other side >of the tidal River Trent. Leicestershire does >have a border with a section of Lincolnshire but >this is no where close to this area of our >county." I cannot yet prove the Gainsborough >families as belonging to your ancestor Thomas, >but they do use Richard and Thomas as names, and >I make suggestions for furthering work on these >families [who appear to be related to each >other] in the Gainsborough Parish Registers/BTs >in order to gather more information before >they could be ruled out." > It was found that there could be no connection. Ann Noble, mother of Thomas of Gainsborough, appointed her son, Thomas, as executor of her will in 1657. Since Thomas, the London pin maker was deceased in 1649, they could not be the same person. Also the Richard of Gainsborough was to have a will probated circa 1641. Richard, brother of Thomas, the London pin maker was alive in 1649-50. Research will continue to obtain information about the Richard Noble of Owston, or Coston, Leiscestershire, mentioned in the will of Thomas Noble, the pin maker.

Hi Sandra I will forgive you for not knowing where it is, I was born about 20 miles away from it and had never heard of it either <g> Its near Rugby (between Rugby and the M6) if its that Newton of course? It looks like a bit of a one horse town (if you know what I mean) Old-maps does not show any obvious White House either but if it was/is a house name they often change over time Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) > hello can some one tell me where in Leicestershire is Newton, a place > called White house Newton, is the address that i found for my stepsisters > address in 1952 befor she and her mother emrigrated to Malysa sandra

Hi Sandra I cannot help with the location of the White House, but by going to http://maps.google.co.uk/ and typing "Newton, Leicestershire", it will show you where the village is. By zooming out, you can see where it is in relation to other large towns and maybe other locations you know of in the area. Heather Sandybear wrote: > hello can some one tell me where in Leicestershire is Newton, a place called White house Newton, is the address that i found for my stepsisters address in 1952 befor she and her mother emrigrated to Malysa sandra >

Hi Sandra, It could be either Newton Harcourt or Newtown Linford (allowing for a bit of mis-spelling of Newtown). "White House" is very common as a house name, so I wouldn't be surprised if both places had one at some time in the past. Best wishes, Mike Gould -----Original Message----- From: leicestershire-plus-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:leicestershire-plus-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sandybear Sent: 03 June 2008 17:10 To: LEICESTERSHIRE-PLUS@rootsweb.com Subject: [LEI] Milton hello can some one tell me where in Leicestershire is Newton, a place called White house Newton, is the address that i found for my stepsisters address in 1952 befor she and her mother emrigrated to Malysa sandra ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LEICESTERSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

hello can some one tell me where in Leicestershire is Newton, a place called White house Newton, is the address that i found for my stepsisters address in 1952 befor she and her mother emrigrated to Malysa sandra

There is a possibility that this might refer to Newton Regis, just over the county boundary in Warwickshire and close to Nomans Heath in the northwest of the county. Don

Hello List, My apologies to those who subscribe to the Notts List for the double posting (with amendments). Joseph NORTON, oldest brother of my 2x gt-grandfather, John, is a "brick wall". I have exhausted all research avenues I can think of, checking primary sources wherever available. Any further ideas or information would be most welcome. Background: Joseph was born in Cauldwell, (parish of Stapenhill), Sth Derbyshire, c1787 (parents married in May 1786; brother John born May 1788). No christening will be found for him as this was a family of General Baptists, responsible for establishing the General Baptist church in Cauldwell and later, in nearby Burton on Trent (Staffs), to which chapel the registers were transferred. (Baptists, of course, don't have infant baptisms, but there would have been registers of births and burials). The pre-1837 registers were not deposited with [the] PRO / TNA but remained in the church. Unfortunately, these records went up in smoke when fire destroyed the Burton Baptist chapel in the mid-1960s. (O me misera!!!) A few facts: * By the mid-C19, many of the younger NORTONs had returned to the Established Church; the majority lived in and around Burton on Trent, although one branch had moved to Market Bosworth & Shackerstone and then to Saint Margaret's, Leicester, between 1828 - 1841. * Joseph was still alive in June 1835, when his father made his will, but no sign of him in Burton, Leicestershire or Derbyshire in 1841. * Most of the Cauldwell (and Leics) NORTON family males were cordwainers (shoemakers), back at least to 1700. However, by 1851 necessity forced most of the trained cordwainers / shoe makers to find other occupations / employment. * The Cauldwell NORTONs were property owners, and most appear to have been literate, including the women. * A Henry NORTON, carpenter, son of Joseph NORTON, shoe maker, was born in Cauldwell c1825 (from his 1851 marriage certificate & age in 1851 census where he was lodging in Burton with the family of Joseph & Mary BARNETT - Mary, nee NORTON, b Cauldwell c1799 and, frustratingly, unidentified: probably Joseph NORTON's 1st cousin). * 25 Dec 1820: Joseph NORTON of Cauldwell, Stapenhill m Sarah PICKERING, All Saints, Loughborough, Leics (by Licence) The marriage bond / allegation shows that Joseph was a widower, aged 30, and a cordwainer. (Age 3 years out, but near enough). He signed his name in the marriage register and on the bond. Sarah PICKERING was aged 28, and a spinster. The other bondsman was Benjamin PICKERING, lace-manufacturer. (Loughborough General Baptist birth registers show children of Benjamin PICKERING and wife Elizabeth - d/o Richard & Mary BAXTER - all born between 1815 - 1824. Benjamin was possibly Sarah's brother....?). * 1841 census for Radford RD comes up with this family - none born in Notts - the only match I can find: HO107 / 860: Bk 12, ED 12, Fol 27, P 10: Wollaton Road, Radford Joseph NORTON 50 Toll Gate Keeper N Sarah 45 N Henry 15 Apprentice N Mary 9 N * No sign of this family in 1851 *Death certificate, Nottingham RD, Park SubDist: 28 Nov 1847, Joseph NORTON, 61 yrs, Toll Gate Keeper, died in the General Hospital Stanland? Hill? * This Joseph did not leave a will Given the above circumstantial evidence, and in spite of a few minor irregularities regarding ages, I am reasonably hopeful that this was my missing Joseph and his family. There may well have been other children, born probably in Leicestershire. (I have identified all NORTONs born in, or living in, Cauldwell, Stapenhill, Sth Derbyshire, Burton on Trent, post-1837, and many or most born prior). In 1851, a Sarah NORTON, widow, aged 54, a glove seamer, can be found lodging with the TRAVERS family (indexed by Ancestry as FAVORS!) in Castle Donington, Leics. Like most of this family, her birthplace is given as Castle D. Head of the household was William TRAVERS (40) b Wilne, DBY; wife Fanny (41) b Castle D. Could Sarah and Fanny have been sisters....? Q: Loughborough PRs have not been filmed by the LDS, so I am stuck. A very kind lister (Andy Bradford) checked the PRs for me and transcribed the entry. I would like to see Joseph's signature in his marriage entry (25 Dec 1820). Is anybody likely to be looking at Loughborough PRs and able to take a digital photo of the marriage entry (if LRO permits digital photography), please? I have looked at the BTs, which *have* been filmed by the LDS, but of course don't show the signatures. If anybody recognises any of these families (NORTON, PICKERING or TRAVERS) or can suggest either any way in which I can prove that this was my family, or any further avenue of investigation, I would be delighted to hear. Thank you for your time, and my apologies for the lengthy message and all the questions. Blanche Charles (nee Norton) Wellington New Zealand NORTON Family History Unlimited http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~blanchec/indexdby.htm Cauldwell Online Resources http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~blanchec/cauldindex.htm East Midlands General Baptist History http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~blanchec/EMidBaps.htm

Hi Mike I have BUCKBYs/BUGBYs & BUCKLEYs in my tree - all the same family but misspelt in the Parish Records by the person who entered their names. Often names were spelt phonetically which was also affected by the dialect of the area. Lots of names have hidden anomalies like this. June ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" <casofilia@xtra.co.nz> To: <LEICESTERSHIRE-PLUS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 3:33 AM Subject: [LEI] A Curly DUNMORE > Hello Again > > Sorry if this is "hairy" but it has me going round in circles!! > > According to an extraction from the IGI Richard BUCKBY married Mary > DUNMORE in Preston on 13 Oct 1806. Similarly they had two children; Mary, > Christened 6 Dec 1807, and Samuel, Christened 20 Oct 1811. There are > possible marriages and children for these two children too. > > BUT according to a submission in the IGI Richard BUCKLEY married Mary > DUMFORD in Preston 11 Oct 1806. There was a similar submission of a Mary > BUCKLEY with a birth on 6 Dec 1807. > > Are they the same people? I believe they are!! > > In 1841 there is a BUGBY family, in 1851 BUCKLEY and in 1861 BUCKBY!! All > contain a Richard, Mary and William. > > Anyone with comments I would love to see them. I believe that they are > connected to NAYLOR and RAWLINGS names. > > All the best > > Mike > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LEICESTERSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Ted Put your requests on this list first. You may be surprised at the assistance you will get. All the best Mike Can anyone give me the name and address of a reliable genealogist whom I could contact, requesting research assistance? My interest is in the name NOBLE in the Leicestershire area. Thank you. Ted Noble P.O. Box 837 Gualala Ca 95445

Hi list, re-posting my main interest fron wigston magna, BENNETT 1860s onwards " " pre 1860s kibworth area. many thanks, terry. looking for any info on following names. BENNETT kibworth area all dates BENNETT wigston " " " GILLIVER enderby " " " SMART wigston " " " many thanks for any info, TERRY HOLMES, LEICESTER. ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam

Hi list, looking for a linda bennett who married a ron ? and still lives fleckney lei,linda is between poss 65 to 70 ish, it concerns her brouther ivan bennett who died 2007 terry. ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam

Hi Ted, I have NOBLEs from Burbage: Mark = Elizabeth MUSSON marr 29 Jul 1792; children William (1793), Mary (1794), Marianne (1800), John (1802) and Isaac (1810). I have descendants for John and Isaac so far. John married Alice ? and moved to Northants. Isaac marr Susannah PAYNE and moved to Northants via Notts. Please let me know if you are connected! regards, Sally in Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Freda Noble" <tnoble@mcn.org> To: <LEICESTERSHIRE-PLUS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 3:18 PM Subject: [LEI] genealogist help? > Can anyone give me the name and address of a reliable genealogist > whom I could contact, requesting research assistance? > > My interest is in the name NOBLE in the Leicestershire area. > > Thank you. > > Ted Noble > P.O. Box 837 > Gualala Ca > 95445 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LEICESTERSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Can anyone give me the name and address of a reliable genealogist whom I could contact, requesting research assistance? My interest is in the name NOBLE in the Leicestershire area. Thank you. Ted Noble P.O. Box 837 Gualala Ca 95445

Hello Again. I have another question from a branch of the DUNMORE family tree. In 1841 there is a John (32) and Ann BUGBY and family in Preston. In the IGI there is a Marriage in Preston in 1833 of a John BUCKBY to an Ann BARFIELD. >From these John would easily have been born c 1809. Is anyone able to confirm his parents? I would like them to be Richard and Ann BUCKBY (nee DUNMORE) who were married in 1806 in Preston. However those two only have 2 children in the IGI christened in Preston; Mary in 1807 and Samuel in 1811. John would fit in nicely!!! If that were to be so are there any other later children to the couple too. I think there could well be an Ann b c 1819. It would seem that BUCKBY, BUGBY and even BUCKLEY are interchangeable!! Thanks for any help Mike in a cool wintry Whakatane NZ

Hello folks I am new to this list. I am seeking Lewins starting with a William born in Barkby 1800 1801 who moved to Plymouth devon, Spouse is/was Sophia Lewin (nee Cocks) and they raised 10 chidren there. William or some of the children were Chemists/Duggists in Plymouth around 1880 Can anyone help supply info etc. Gratefull for any help or links. Michelle Lewin

Hello Mike (in wintry NZ!) Sorry that I can't help with your curly DUNMORE / BUCKLEY query, but the name RAWLINGS caught my eye. The second marriage of George NORTON, brother of my 2x gt-grandfather, was to Elizabeth RAWLINGS (4 Sep 1856, in the General Baptist Chapel, Barton in the Beans, Leics). I believe Elizabeth to have been christened in Carlton (nr Mkt Bosworth), Leics, 24 Jan 1804: daughter of Francis RAWLINGS = Sarah HORSPOOL. Francis RAWLINGS, botp = Sarah HORSPOOL, sp Houghton; Licence Marriage: 25 APR 1797 Market Bosworth, Leics, England Other known children (all chr Carlton) of Francis & Sarah: William (1798); Ann (1800); Mary (1801). Mary married William FARMER in Carlton, 1823. Could there be a connection? Kind regards, Blanche Charles Wellington (where it is bitterly cold!) New Zealand -------------------------------------------------- "Mike" <casofilia@xtra.co.nz> wrote: In 1841 there is a BUGBY family, in 1851 BUCKLEY and in 1861 BUCKBY!! All contain a Richard, Mary and William. Anyone with comments I would love to see them. I believe that they are connected to NAYLOR and RAWLINGS names.

I am researching the MOORE family in South Kilworth. Are South Kilworth church records available on line? I am back to a RICHARD MOORE born 1697 who married a MARY. He had a sister JANE and a brother WILLIAM, born 1700 and 1706, and I know his descendants. I believe his father may have been a ROBERT born about 1672 (taking a generation as being 25 years), and grandfather RICHARD c1647, but no proof for them, although there are some old family papers which seem to indicate this. I have been unable to find South Kilworth marriages in Phillimore Leicester Marriages. Would be most interested in anyone else researchng this family. Allied names would seem to be ELLIOTT and HIPWELL. Thank you, Ivy Trott in South Africa.

I think that you should look at the films of the Parish church records and determine for yourself if these are separate entries in the register or someone's transcription errors. It is possible that these are separate entries and thus a coincidence in the similarity of names. Going by secondary sources (IGI transcripts) will never resolve the question. Mel Smith Whitby, Ontario, Canada -----Original Message----- From: leicestershire-plus-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:leicestershire-plus-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: May 27, 2008 10:33 PM To: LEICESTERSHIRE-PLUS@rootsweb.com Subject: [LEI] A Curly DUNMORE Hello Again Sorry if this is "hairy" but it has me going round in circles!! According to an extraction from the IGI Richard BUCKBY married Mary DUNMORE in Preston on 13 Oct 1806. Similarly they had two children; Mary, Christened 6 Dec 1807, and Samuel, Christened 20 Oct 1811. There are possible marriages and children for these two children too. BUT according to a submission in the IGI Richard BUCKLEY married Mary DUMFORD in Preston 11 Oct 1806. There was a similar submission of a Mary BUCKLEY with a birth on 6 Dec 1807. Are they the same people? I believe they are!! In 1841 there is a BUGBY family, in 1851 BUCKLEY and in 1861 BUCKBY!! All contain a Richard, Mary and William. Anyone with comments I would love to see them. I believe that they are connected to NAYLOR and RAWLINGS names. All the best Mike ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LEICESTERSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Again Sorry if this is "hairy" but it has me going round in circles!! According to an extraction from the IGI Richard BUCKBY married Mary DUNMORE in Preston on 13 Oct 1806. Similarly they had two children; Mary, Christened 6 Dec 1807, and Samuel, Christened 20 Oct 1811. There are possible marriages and children for these two children too. BUT according to a submission in the IGI Richard BUCKLEY married Mary DUMFORD in Preston 11 Oct 1806. There was a similar submission of a Mary BUCKLEY with a birth on 6 Dec 1807. Are they the same people? I believe they are!! In 1841 there is a BUGBY family, in 1851 BUCKLEY and in 1861 BUCKBY!! All contain a Richard, Mary and William. Anyone with comments I would love to see them. I believe that they are connected to NAYLOR and RAWLINGS names. All the best Mike

Hello Leicester Listers Elizabeth DUNMORE was born in Uppingham Rutland in 1848. She appears in the 1851 and 1861 censuses but I cannot find her after that. There are 3 Elizabeth DUNMORE marriages between 1861 and 1871 in FreeBMD but they do not tie in with any useful material in the 1871 census. However there is a death in FreeBMD of an Elizabeth DUNMORE in the Mar Q 1865; Mt Harbro 7a ___; before ages are recorded!! Can anyone see anything I am missing? Or can anyone help with any detail about the death in 1865? Thanks Mike in Whakatane NZ