Thank you to Nivard, Mel, Dennis, Mike and Marsha for all your input with locating my ancestor. it is greatly appreciated and has given me more food for thought. The death of Ann Mary BISHOP aged 20 in Sheffield in the Sept Qtr 1883, (Vol 9c, Page 234) is looking more positive. I guess obtaining this death certificate would prove without a doubt if it is our relative. If this was indeed "Ann M Bishop", this would mean that Ann moved to Yorkshire sometime after the 1881 Census where she was found living in Leicester with her father, John Carver BISHOP and her two siblings, Robert Ernest and Arthur Atkins BISHOP. Keeping an open mind, she could possibly have moved to Yorkshire sometime after 1881, even before her father immigrates to Canada in 1883. If this were the case, then her brother, Robert and Arthur would still have been living with their father until 1883 when he leaves for Canada. In the the 1891 Census, it shows the following: Robert BISHOP - Grocer's Vanman lodging with the GLOVER family at 8 Clara Street, St Mary, Leicester In 1893 Robert immigrates to Australia (like his older brother, John Charles BISHOP, my great grandfather) and settles in Warwick, where his BISHOP relatives are living. 1891 Arthur BISHOP is a General Servant living with Michael & Clara Wood at Bardon Hill, Bardon, Leicestershire. 1901 Arthur is a Stone Quarry man living at Enderby, having married Ann ATKINS in 1896 in Blaby. 1911 Arthur is a Stone Cutter at Enderby I guess after their father, John Carver BISHOP immigrated to Canada in 1883, these two boys (aged 15 and 10 respectively) obviously had to live and work somewhere even if their sister had gone north to Yorkshire. Am I naive to think that 10 years old is too young to be working in 1883? I know of the hardships many families had and children were forced to work. Now back to Ann M Bishop. Ann Mary Bishop's death is recorded as Sheffield, Yorkshire. I have located Ann M Bishop's older brother, William in 1881 living at Brightside Bierlow, Yorkshire, where after a search on the internet, found this to be Sheffield. With all the information given so generously by digest members, it is looking more certain that Ann Mary Bishop, who died in 1883 in Sheffield, is the Ann M Bishop (from Leicestershire) that I am trying to locate. Desley Brisbane, Australia On 22/07/2012, at 9:27 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > > IMPORTANT! When replying to one of the messages below, DO NOT hit "Reply" and add your comments. (It won't work!) Copy+paste only the relevant bit into a new email, or SNIP everything that isn't relevant. In either case, remember to make sure that your subject line is relevant to your posting! > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Locations - 1841 Census (Nivard Ovington) > 2. Re: Trying to Locate Ann M BISHOP (Mike Gould) > 3. Re: Trying to Locate Ann M BISHOP (dennis jackson) > 4. Re: Trying to Locate Ann M BISHOP (TERRY HOPKIN- SUNDBY) > > > > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 10:54:09 +0100 > From: "Mike Gould" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [LEI] Trying to Locate Ann M BISHOP > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Desley, > >> I wonder why, back in the 1880s she would travel to Yorkshire to > work, being so young. >> I am doubtful because she was in Leicester in 1881 and with her > father immigrating to Canada >> in 1883, he left behind two young sons, Robert aged 15 and Arthur > aged 10. I cannot imagine >> her leaving her two siblings to go and work up in Yorkshire. What > do other think on this scenario. > > There is a scenario where this kind of thing happened. If the family were > poor and the father was forced to emigrate, the remaining family could > become a burden on the parish. It was not unknown for the Parish Officers > to deliberately look to place children in apprenticeships that were far from > home, in order to minimise the chance that they would return and once again > become a burden. It might be worth checking with Leicestershire Record > Office to see whether there is anything in their Poor Law Index. > > Best wishes, > > Mike Gould > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Desley Revell > Sent: 21 July 2012 11:54 > To: Leicestershire Digest > Subject: [LEI] Trying to Locate Ann M BISHOP > > Firstly let me thank all those who replied so promptly to my query "Where > are you - Ann M Bishop". > I had visitors arrive unexpectedly last week, hence my late reply. > > Here are some replies to suggestions put forward. I have left my original > posting on this email to make things easier. > > To Mike Gould's suggestion - Did Ann M BISHOP have a sister-in-law called > Fanny. > I don't believe so. There is one brother - William (born 1854 in Mowsley) > that I have no information on. > Ann did have a sister called Mary Elizabeth Annie BISHOP born 1857 but I > have no information on her either > Sometimes I have heard that "Annie" can be short for 'Fanny", so there is a > possibility that Mary Elizabeth Annie may have been known as Fanny. > I will have to research that possibility. > > To Marsha Stringer suggestion - Did Ann M BISHOP go to Canada with her > father. > I do have the information on her father's Immigration and Ann certainly was > not on the same ship. > Some more comments on this to follow. > > To Nivard Ovington - Locating her birth registration and what did the "M" > stand for. > Like you, I have been unable to find a birth registration. It would appear > that she may have been born under a different name. As a point of interest, > my mother was always known by her second Christian name (not her first), so > if anyone was looking for her, they would never have found her. > I do not know what the "M" stands for unfortunately. > > To Mel Smith - with details of John Carver Bishop's immigration details to > Canada. > Thank you Mel. I did have this information and I do appreciate you looking > this up and detailing all the information. > With regards to a Ann Mary BISHOP death registration in Sheffield in 1883. > The date fits in with her age - I wonder why, back in the 1880s she would > travel to Yorkshire to work, being so young. I am doubtful because she was > in Leicester in 1881 and with her father immigrating to Canada in 1883, he > left behind two young sons, Robert aged 15 and Arthur aged 10. I cannot > imagine her leaving her two siblings to go and work up in Yorkshire. What > do other think on this senario. > > To Nivard Ovington - did John Carver BISHOP (Ann's father) leave a will when > he died in Canada. > I do know he died a pauper and there was an obituary for him in the local > paper which stated, in part, that he had been a resident of the Home of the > Friendless for some time prior to his death and that there were no relatives > that the reporter identified. It is to be wondered why such a detailed > article was written if he was destitute since most from the Home, with no > money or relatives, are buried with little or no fanfare in the local paper. > > > > >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:10:31 +1000 >> From: Desley Revell >> Subject: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? >> To: Leicestershire Digest >> >> >> I have an elusive relative and am stumped as to where she has gone. >> >> Ann M Bishop was born about 1863 in Primethorpe, Leicestershire >> (Source: Ann's age is shown as 8 years making her birth around 1863. > Registration District: Lutterworth; RG10 piece 3221 folio 12 page 17) >> >> Her parents were John Carver BISHOP and Ann ATKIN. Ann's mother died in > 1874 in the Lutterworth District and Ann's father died in 1905 in Belleville > City, Canada. >> >> In the 1871 census she is shown as a scholar living at Sutton-in-the Elms, > Broughton Astley. >> >> During the 1881 census, Ann is now a teacher and living with her father at > 23 Myrtle Road, Leicester. >> >> An article dated 1880 has been found showing that Ann M Bishop obtained > success in an examination. >> >> Leicester Chronicle and >> >> Hi Desley, >> >> Before dismissing the death certificate completely, have you confirmed > that >> Ann didn't have a sister-in-law called Fanny ? >> >> Best wishes, >> Mike Gould >> >> >> >> >> Did you rule out the Ann Mary Bishop death in Sheffield in 1883? >> Deaths Sep 1883 >> BISHOP Ann Mary 20 Sheffield 9c 274 >> >> Mel Smith >> Whitby, Ontario, Canada >> >> ------------------------------ >> > > > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 11:58:28 +0100 > From: "dennis jackson" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [LEI] Trying to Locate Ann M BISHOP > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Did Ann M Bishop travel to Sheffield and die there in 1883 ? > > Deaths Sep 1883 > BISHOP Ann Mary 20 Sheffield 9c 274 > > Well, a search of the 1881 census for her brother William Bishop, born > Mowsley finds one ... > RG11 / 4662 / folio 20 / page 33 > 8 Gower Street, Brightside Bierlow, Sheffield > William Bishop, lodger, aged 27, Lab Steel Wks, born Mowsley, Leicestershire > > And in 1891 he appears to have moved a bit south to Derbyshire > RG12 / 2768 / folio 73 / page 5 > 20 Hartington Cottages, Staveley, Derbyshire > William Bishop, boarder, aged 39, General Labourer, Mowsley, Leicestershire > > So, perhaps the death in Sheffield in 1883 isn't so unlikely. She could have > been there with (or near) her elder brother. > > I haven't tried searching for her other two brothers in the 1891 census. Did > they stay in Leicester or did they also move to Yorkshire? > > > Dennis. > > > on Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:53:35 +1000, [email protected] wrote: > >> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:53:35 +1000 >> From: Desley Revell <[email protected]> >> Subject: [LEI] Trying to Locate Ann M BISHOP >> To: Leicestershire Digest <[email protected]> >> >> Firstly let me thank all those who replied so promptly to my query "Where >> are you - Ann M Bishop". >> >> With regards to a Ann Mary BISHOP death registration in Sheffield in 1883. >> The date fits in with her age - I wonder why, back in the 1880s she would >> travel to Yorkshire to work, being so young. I am doubtful because she > was >> in Leicester in 1881 and with her father immigrating to Canada in 1883, he >> left behind two young sons, Robert aged 15 and Arthur aged 10. I cannot >> imagine her leaving her two siblings to go and work up in Yorkshire. > What >> do other think on this senario. >> >> > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 13:27:43 +0200 > From: TERRY HOPKIN- SUNDBY <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [LEI] Trying to Locate Ann M BISHOP > To: leic list <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Hi > Bishop is a fairly common name, there were plenty of well paying jobs in Yorkshire at that time, do know that for example there is a Bishop family in Settle in what was then the West Riding . > > who knows perhaps she came to one of the cotton mills opening at the time > regards > Terry > >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 10:54:09 +0100 >> Subject: Re: [LEI] Trying to Locate Ann M BISHOP >> >> Hi Desley, >> >>> I wonder why, back in the 1880s she would travel to Yorkshire to >> work, being so young. >>> I am doubtful because she was in Leicester in 1881 and with her >> father immigrating to Canada >>> in 1883, he left behind two young sons, Robert aged 15 and Arthur >> aged 10. I cannot imagine >>> her leaving her two siblings to go and work up in Yorkshire. What >> do other think on this scenario. >> >> There is a scenario where this kind of thing happened. If the family were >> poor and the father was forced to emigrate, the remaining family could >> become a burden on the parish. It was not unknown for the Parish Officers >> to deliberately look to place children in apprenticeships that were far from >> home, in order to minimise the chance that they would return and once again >> become a burden. It might be worth checking with Leicestershire Record >> Office to see whether there is anything in their Poor Law Index. >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Mike Gould >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Desley Revell >> Sent: 21 July 2012 11:54 >> To: Leicestershire Digest >> Subject: [LEI] Trying to Locate Ann M BISHOP >> >> Firstly let me thank all those who replied so promptly to my query "Where >> are you - Ann M Bishop". >> I had visitors arrive unexpectedly last week, hence my late reply. >> >> Here are some replies to suggestions put forward. I have left my original >> posting on this email to make things easier. >> >> To Mike Gould's suggestion - Did Ann M BISHOP have a sister-in-law called >> Fanny. >> I don't believe so. There is one brother - William (born 1854 in Mowsley) >> that I have no information on. >> Ann did have a sister called Mary Elizabeth Annie BISHOP born 1857 but I >> have no information on her either >> Sometimes I have heard that "Annie" can be short for 'Fanny", so there is a >> possibility that Mary Elizabeth Annie may have been known as Fanny. >> I will have to research that possibility. >> >> To Marsha Stringer suggestion - Did Ann M BISHOP go to Canada with her >> father. >> I do have the information on her father's Immigration and Ann certainly was >> not on the same ship. >> Some more comments on this to follow. >> >> To Nivard Ovington - Locating her birth registration and what did the "M" >> stand for. >> Like you, I have been unable to find a birth registration. It would appear >> that she may have been born under a different name. As a point of interest, >> my mother was always known by her second Christian name (not her first), so >> if anyone was looking for her, they would never have found her. >> I do not know what the "M" stands for unfortunately. >> >> To Mel Smith - with details of John Carver Bishop's immigration details to >> Canada. >> Thank you Mel. I did have this information and I do appreciate you looking >> this up and detailing all the information. >> With regards to a Ann Mary BISHOP death registration in Sheffield in 1883. >> The date fits in with her age - I wonder why, back in the 1880s she would >> travel to Yorkshire to work, being so young. I am doubtful because she was >> in Leicester in 1881 and with her father immigrating to Canada in 1883, he >> left behind two young sons, Robert aged 15 and Arthur aged 10. I cannot >> imagine her leaving her two siblings to go and work up in Yorkshire. What >> do other think on this senario. >> >> To Nivard Ovington - did John Carver BISHOP (Ann's father) leave a will when >> he died in Canada. >> I do know he died a pauper and there was an obituary for him in the local >> paper which stated, in part, that he had been a resident of the Home of the >> Friendless for some time prior to his death and that there were no relatives >> that the reporter identified. It is to be wondered why such a detailed >> article was written if he was destitute since most from the Home, with no >> money or relatives, are buried with little or no fanfare in the local paper. >> >> >> To Angie Millard - with information on Ann M Bishop's mothers burial >> details. >> Thank you Angie, but I did have this information. >> >> >> it is an interesting thing about Ann's father. He was married twice; >> firstly to Ann ATKINS in 1851 who died in 1874 and then to Mary ROBERTS in >> 1875 and she died in 1878. In 1871, John had been a farmer of 100 acres and >> then a Hay, Straw and Provision Dealer in Leicester in 1878, Then in 1879 he >> went bankrupt and one wonders if this was the reason he may have gone to >> Canada. >> >> I guess I have to try and find Ann M Bishop's birth. Does anyone have >> access to the Parish Records for Sutton on the Elms or Primethorpe for that >> period of time. It would be interesting to know what children of John & Ann >> Bishop were baptised around that time. >> >> To Mike, Marsha, Nivard, Mel and Angie, please accept my grateful >> appreciation for taking the time to research and offer suggestions to my >> request. >> >> Desley Revell >> Brisbane, Australia >> >> >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:10:31 +1000 >>> From: Desley Revell >>> Subject: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? >>> To: Leicestershire Digest >>> >>> >>> I have an elusive relative and am stumped as to where she has gone. >>> >>> Ann M Bishop was born about 1863 in Primethorpe, Leicestershire >>> (Source: Ann's age is shown as 8 years making her birth around 1863. >> Registration District: Lutterworth; RG10 piece 3221 folio 12 page 17) >>> >>> Her parents were John Carver BISHOP and Ann ATKIN. Ann's mother died in >> 1874 in the Lutterworth District and Ann's father died in 1905 in Belleville >> City, Canada. >>> >>> In the 1871 census she is shown as a scholar living at Sutton-in-the Elms, >> Broughton Astley. >>> >>> During the 1881 census, Ann is now a teacher and living with her father at >> 23 Myrtle Road, Leicester. >>> >>> An article dated 1880 has been found showing that Ann M Bishop obtained >> success in an examination. >>> >>> Leicester Chronicle and the Leicestershire Mercury (Leicester, England) >> Saturday, July 10, 1880 >>> CHURCH EDUCATION SOCIETY. The following teachers at schools in this >> district obtained successes at the examinations for thre Langham and other >> prizes in March last, and for which the awards were distributed at >> Northampton last week. >>> Fourth Year, Class 2 - Ann M Bishop, St Peter's, Leicester >>> >>> and then she disappears. I have tried to find a marriage with no >> success. >>> >>> I did find a death for an Ann Bishop in 1887 the District of Lutterworth, >> but a relative obtained a copy and it is not our "Ann M Bishop". On >> obtaining the Death Certificate, this is what my relative said: >>> Quote - We received a copy of the Ann Bishop Death Certificate but >> unfortunately it didn't match up with Ann M Bishop ,as she didn't have a >> Sister Fanny who was stated as present at time of death. Unquote >>> >>> Can anyone give me an ideas on further research to find this elusive >> relative. >>> >>> Desley >>> Brisbane, Australia >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:26:52 +0100 >>> From: "Mike Gould" <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> Hi Desley, >>> >>> Before dismissing the death certificate completely, have you confirmed >> that >>> Ann didn't have a sister-in-law called Fanny ? >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> Mike Gould >>> >>> >>> >>> Message: 4 >>> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:03:25 +0100 >>> From: Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? >>> To: [email protected] >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>> >>> Hi Desley >>> >>> I have had a rummage around but like you did not find your Ann M BISHOP >>> after 1881 >>> >>> As Mike rightly said, could the sister Fanny be a sister in law ? >>> >>> One thing I did notice (or rather didn't notice :-) was a birth for Ann >>> M BISHOP in or around 1863 >>> >>> Do you know what the M stood for? >>> >>> Several scenarios come to mind >>> >>> Was she registered under a different name than the Ann she used and >>> later reverted to her birth name >>> >>> She married or shacked up with someone, the marriage if there was one is >>> either under another name (the M?) or did not get reported to the GRO or >>> they didn't marry >>> >>> But as there are no candidates for a person born circa 1863 Primethorpe >>> or Sutton in the Elms in the later census you do wonder if she may have >>> emigrated or died >>> >>> If you can find out what the M stood for it may help >>> >>> The death was registered as if she was born in 1861, thats a common >>> error in the deaths registered but not usually in one so young >>> >>> Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >>> >>> >>> >>> Message: 5 >>> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 09:13:26 -0400 >>> From: "Mel Smith" <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> Desley: >>> >>> If you don't have him here is John in 1901 Belleville, Hastings Co, >> Ontario, >>> Canada >>> >>> Family # Surname Given Name Gender Relationship Marital Status >>> Birth Day Birth Year Age Birthplace Immigration >>> Racial Origin Religion Occupation >>> 272 Bishop John C Male Head Widower 18 >>> Sep 1827 73 England 1883 English C of E >>> Gardener >>> >>> And in 1891 also in Belleville >>> Family # Surname Given Name Gender Age Marital Status Relationship >>> Birthplace Religion Father's Birthplace Mother's Birthplace Occupation >>> 49 Bishop John C Male 68 Widowed Head England C >>> of E England England Farmer >>> >>> No evidence of Ann (marriage or death in Ontario) >>> Note that John emigrated to Canada in 1883 >>> There is a John Bishop age 55 arriving on 29 May 1883 at Quebec City on >>> board the vessel "Toronto" departed Liverpool 17 May. He is the only name >>> listed for his ticket 552 (No family members accompanying him) >>> >>> Did you rule out the Ann Mary Bishop death in Sheffield in 1883? >>> Deaths Sep 1883 >>> BISHOP Ann Mary 20 Sheffield 9c 274 >>> >>> Mel Smith >>> Whitby, Ontario, Canada

Hi again Are the other surrounding addresses similar? It would usually indicate a split property Just looked at the 1881 and I would say its multiple occupancy, one house split into two or more parts Another way of saying 9a or 9b etc Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 22/07/2012 16:56, Pamela Furmidge wrote: > Thanks for all your help, Nivard, it's very much appreciated. By the > way, you may know the answer - the 1821 JC was recorded at one time > of living at 9 and a half Alfred Street - is there any particular > significance in the number? > > Pamela

Thanks for all your help, Nivard, it's very much appreciated.  By the way, you may know the answer - the 1821 JC was recorded at one time of living at 9 and a half Alfred Street - is there any particular significance in the number?   Pamela From: Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, 22 July 2012, 16:04 Subject: Re: [LEI] Locations - 1841 Census Hi again Yes Spencer street was between Canning street and Friday street Its now small industrial units and car dealerships if I remember rightly but very much redeveloped The old Church is still there but none of the old housing I used to work just around the corner :-) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 22/07/2012 15:40, Nivard Ovington wrote: > Hi again > > The first is Orchard street (runs from Belgrave to Burleys Way) > > 2nd is Spencer street (try Friday street or Canning street for the area) > > 3rd is Northampton street (runs from Charles street to Granby street) > > Leicester has had a vast amount of renovation over the years and I think > your Spencer street may have been a casualty and no longer exists, at > least it doesn't ring bells with me ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi again Yes Spencer street was between Canning street and Friday street Its now small industrial units and car dealerships if I remember rightly but very much redeveloped The old Church is still there but none of the old housing I used to work just around the corner :-) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 22/07/2012 15:40, Nivard Ovington wrote: > Hi again > > The first is Orchard street (runs from Belgrave to Burleys Way) > > 2nd is Spencer street (try Friday street or Canning street for the area) > > 3rd is Northampton street (runs from Charles street to Granby street) > > Leicester has had a vast amount of renovation over the years and I think > your Spencer street may have been a casualty and no longer exists, at > least it doesn't ring bells with me

Hi again The first is Orchard street (runs from Belgrave to Burleys Way) 2nd is Spencer street (try Friday street or Canning street for the area) 3rd is Northampton street (runs from Charles street to Granby street) Leicester has had a vast amount of renovation over the years and I think your Spencer street may have been a casualty and no longer exists, at least it doesn't ring bells with me I will dig out some old maps and see if I can locate it The first two are quite close but the 3rd is more central Leicester Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 22/07/2012 14:52, Pamela Furmidge wrote: > Hi Nivard > > The details are as follows: > > John Cooley b c 1781 Prichard or more likely Richard Street, HO > 107/604/15 Enum Schedule 42, pp 31/32 > > John Cooley b c 1801, Gower/Flower/Spencer Street HO 107/604/17 Enum > Schedule 18, pp 27/28 > > John Cooley b c 1821 Northampton Street HO 107/604/5 Enum Schedule 8 > pp 7/8. > > I suspect these are son, father, grandfather who were short on > imagination where names are concerned, especially as the 1821 JC's > son, grandson and gt grandson were also all called John. > > Many thanks > > Pamela

Hi Nivard   The details are as follows:   John Cooley b c 1781 Prichard or more likely Richard Street, HO 107/604/15  Enum Schedule 42, pp 31/32   John Cooley b c 1801, Gower/Flower/Spencer Street HO 107/604/17 Enum Schedule 18, pp 27/28   John Cooley b c 1821 Northampton Street HO 107/604/5 Enum Schedule 8 pp 7/8.   I suspect these are son, father, grandfather who were short on imagination where names are concerned, especially as the 1821 JC's son, grandson and gt grandson were also all called John.   Many thanks   Pamela From: Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, 22 July 2012, 9:42 Subject: Re: [LEI] Locations - 1841 Census Hi Pamela It would have helped greatly if you had given the names and details of the people you are seeking and the full census reference In each section you have quoted the part reference for there are getting on for 2000 people so without wading through all those to find your addresses its hard to give more on them The area you mention is a large one but not far from central Leicester So can you give the full census reference with names please and we can look further for you Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 22/07/2012 06:33, Pamela Furmidge wrote: > I have found three possible ancestors on the 1841 census and I wonder if anyone can tell me the locations of their addresses.  They are all from Leicester - St Margaret/St Margaret with Bishops Fee.  The census pages are rather faded and quite difficult to read. > > The first one is Prichard or Richard Street - the reference is HO 107/604/15 > The second is Gower or Flower or Spencer Street - reference HO 107/604/17 > The third is Northampton Street - reference HO 107/604/5 > > I have found Northampton Street on a modern map and it would seem to be the same street as some of the family's children were Christened at St George's Church and two are buried there. > > The other addresses don't seem to exist in modern Leicester, except for Spencer Street which is near Oadby and I assume from the closeness of the reference numbers the streets would be fairly close together, so the modern address is not the one I am looking for. > > If anyone can tell me either where these locations were or point me in the direction of where to find out, I would be very grateful. > > Pamela ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Bishop is a fairly common name, there were plenty of well paying jobs in Yorkshire at that time, do know that for example there is a Bishop family in Settle in what was then the West Riding . who knows perhaps she came to one of the cotton mills opening at the time regards Terry > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 10:54:09 +0100 > Subject: Re: [LEI] Trying to Locate Ann M BISHOP > > Hi Desley, > > > I wonder why, back in the 1880s she would travel to Yorkshire to > work, being so young. > > I am doubtful because she was in Leicester in 1881 and with her > father immigrating to Canada > > in 1883, he left behind two young sons, Robert aged 15 and Arthur > aged 10. I cannot imagine > > her leaving her two siblings to go and work up in Yorkshire. What > do other think on this scenario. > > There is a scenario where this kind of thing happened. If the family were > poor and the father was forced to emigrate, the remaining family could > become a burden on the parish. It was not unknown for the Parish Officers > to deliberately look to place children in apprenticeships that were far from > home, in order to minimise the chance that they would return and once again > become a burden. It might be worth checking with Leicestershire Record > Office to see whether there is anything in their Poor Law Index. > > Best wishes, > > Mike Gould > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Desley Revell > Sent: 21 July 2012 11:54 > To: Leicestershire Digest > Subject: [LEI] Trying to Locate Ann M BISHOP > > Firstly let me thank all those who replied so promptly to my query "Where > are you - Ann M Bishop". > I had visitors arrive unexpectedly last week, hence my late reply. > > Here are some replies to suggestions put forward. I have left my original > posting on this email to make things easier. > > To Mike Gould's suggestion - Did Ann M BISHOP have a sister-in-law called > Fanny. > I don't believe so. There is one brother - William (born 1854 in Mowsley) > that I have no information on. > Ann did have a sister called Mary Elizabeth Annie BISHOP born 1857 but I > have no information on her either > Sometimes I have heard that "Annie" can be short for 'Fanny", so there is a > possibility that Mary Elizabeth Annie may have been known as Fanny. > I will have to research that possibility. > > To Marsha Stringer suggestion - Did Ann M BISHOP go to Canada with her > father. > I do have the information on her father's Immigration and Ann certainly was > not on the same ship. > Some more comments on this to follow. > > To Nivard Ovington - Locating her birth registration and what did the "M" > stand for. > Like you, I have been unable to find a birth registration. It would appear > that she may have been born under a different name. As a point of interest, > my mother was always known by her second Christian name (not her first), so > if anyone was looking for her, they would never have found her. > I do not know what the "M" stands for unfortunately. > > To Mel Smith - with details of John Carver Bishop's immigration details to > Canada. > Thank you Mel. I did have this information and I do appreciate you looking > this up and detailing all the information. > With regards to a Ann Mary BISHOP death registration in Sheffield in 1883. > The date fits in with her age - I wonder why, back in the 1880s she would > travel to Yorkshire to work, being so young. I am doubtful because she was > in Leicester in 1881 and with her father immigrating to Canada in 1883, he > left behind two young sons, Robert aged 15 and Arthur aged 10. I cannot > imagine her leaving her two siblings to go and work up in Yorkshire. What > do other think on this senario. > > To Nivard Ovington - did John Carver BISHOP (Ann's father) leave a will when > he died in Canada. > I do know he died a pauper and there was an obituary for him in the local > paper which stated, in part, that he had been a resident of the Home of the > Friendless for some time prior to his death and that there were no relatives > that the reporter identified. It is to be wondered why such a detailed > article was written if he was destitute since most from the Home, with no > money or relatives, are buried with little or no fanfare in the local paper. > > > To Angie Millard - with information on Ann M Bishop's mothers burial > details. > Thank you Angie, but I did have this information. > > > it is an interesting thing about Ann's father. He was married twice; > firstly to Ann ATKINS in 1851 who died in 1874 and then to Mary ROBERTS in > 1875 and she died in 1878. In 1871, John had been a farmer of 100 acres and > then a Hay, Straw and Provision Dealer in Leicester in 1878, Then in 1879 he > went bankrupt and one wonders if this was the reason he may have gone to > Canada. > > I guess I have to try and find Ann M Bishop's birth. Does anyone have > access to the Parish Records for Sutton on the Elms or Primethorpe for that > period of time. It would be interesting to know what children of John & Ann > Bishop were baptised around that time. > > To Mike, Marsha, Nivard, Mel and Angie, please accept my grateful > appreciation for taking the time to research and offer suggestions to my > request. > > Desley Revell > Brisbane, Australia > > > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:10:31 +1000 > > From: Desley Revell > > Subject: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? > > To: Leicestershire Digest > > > > > > I have an elusive relative and am stumped as to where she has gone. > > > > Ann M Bishop was born about 1863 in Primethorpe, Leicestershire > > (Source: Ann's age is shown as 8 years making her birth around 1863. > Registration District: Lutterworth; RG10 piece 3221 folio 12 page 17) > > > > Her parents were John Carver BISHOP and Ann ATKIN. Ann's mother died in > 1874 in the Lutterworth District and Ann's father died in 1905 in Belleville > City, Canada. > > > > In the 1871 census she is shown as a scholar living at Sutton-in-the Elms, > Broughton Astley. > > > > During the 1881 census, Ann is now a teacher and living with her father at > 23 Myrtle Road, Leicester. > > > > An article dated 1880 has been found showing that Ann M Bishop obtained > success in an examination. > > > > Leicester Chronicle and the Leicestershire Mercury (Leicester, England) > Saturday, July 10, 1880 > > CHURCH EDUCATION SOCIETY. The following teachers at schools in this > district obtained successes at the examinations for thre Langham and other > prizes in March last, and for which the awards were distributed at > Northampton last week. > > Fourth Year, Class 2 - Ann M Bishop, St Peter's, Leicester > > > > and then she disappears. I have tried to find a marriage with no > success. > > > > I did find a death for an Ann Bishop in 1887 the District of Lutterworth, > but a relative obtained a copy and it is not our "Ann M Bishop". On > obtaining the Death Certificate, this is what my relative said: > > Quote - We received a copy of the Ann Bishop Death Certificate but > unfortunately it didn't match up with Ann M Bishop ,as she didn't have a > Sister Fanny who was stated as present at time of death. Unquote > > > > Can anyone give me an ideas on further research to find this elusive > relative. > > > > Desley > > Brisbane, Australia > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:26:52 +0100 > > From: "Mike Gould" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? > > To: <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Hi Desley, > > > > Before dismissing the death certificate completely, have you confirmed > that > > Ann didn't have a sister-in-law called Fanny ? > > > > Best wishes, > > Mike Gould > > > > ------------- > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 07:51:41 -0400 > > From: "M. Stringer" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? > > To: [email protected] > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > Greetings, > > > > Your message caught my attention as I 'lost' a GAunt who disappeared fm > > English records abt 1911. It took 4 years to finally 'find' her - in > > Canada. > > > > As your Ann's father died in Canada, perhaps she was also there? > > > > I tried a quick check on ancestry.com (Emigration/Immigration), but didn't > > see anything obvious. Didn't have time this to check Census records. > > > > Best of luck, > > Marsha Stringer (nee MEERE) > > [email protected] > > USA > > www.bittonfamilies.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:03:25 +0100 > > From: Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? > > To: [email protected] > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > Hi Desley > > > > I have had a rummage around but like you did not find your Ann M BISHOP > > after 1881 > > > > As Mike rightly said, could the sister Fanny be a sister in law ? > > > > One thing I did notice (or rather didn't notice :-) was a birth for Ann > > M BISHOP in or around 1863 > > > > Do you know what the M stood for? > > > > Several scenarios come to mind > > > > Was she registered under a different name than the Ann she used and > > later reverted to her birth name > > > > She married or shacked up with someone, the marriage if there was one is > > either under another name (the M?) or did not get reported to the GRO or > > they didn't marry > > > > But as there are no candidates for a person born circa 1863 Primethorpe > > or Sutton in the Elms in the later census you do wonder if she may have > > emigrated or died > > > > If you can find out what the M stood for it may help > > > > The death was registered as if she was born in 1861, thats a common > > error in the deaths registered but not usually in one so young > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > > > Message: 5 > > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 09:13:26 -0400 > > From: "Mel Smith" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? > > To: <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Desley: > > > > If you don't have him here is John in 1901 Belleville, Hastings Co, > Ontario, > > Canada > > > > Family # Surname Given Name Gender Relationship Marital Status > > Birth Day Birth Year Age Birthplace Immigration > > Racial Origin Religion Occupation > > 272 Bishop John C Male Head Widower 18 > > Sep 1827 73 England 1883 English C of E > > Gardener > > > > And in 1891 also in Belleville > > Family # Surname Given Name Gender Age Marital Status Relationship > > Birthplace Religion Father's Birthplace Mother's Birthplace Occupation > > 49 Bishop John C Male 68 Widowed Head England C > > of E England England Farmer > > > > No evidence of Ann (marriage or death in Ontario) > > Note that John emigrated to Canada in 1883 > > There is a John Bishop age 55 arriving on 29 May 1883 at Quebec City on > > board the vessel "Toronto" departed Liverpool 17 May. He is the only name > > listed for his ticket 552 (No family members accompanying him) > > > > Did you rule out the Ann Mary Bishop death in Sheffield in 1883? > > Deaths Sep 1883 > > BISHOP Ann Mary 20 Sheffield 9c 274 > > > > Mel Smith > > Whitby, Ontario, Canada > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:52:33 +0100 > > From: Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? > > To: [email protected] > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > One further thought > > > > When John the father died in Canada did he leave a will? > > > > What children were mentioned if he did > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Did Ann M Bishop travel to Sheffield and die there in 1883 ? Deaths Sep 1883 BISHOP Ann Mary 20 Sheffield 9c 274 Well, a search of the 1881 census for her brother William Bishop, born Mowsley finds one ... RG11 / 4662 / folio 20 / page 33 8 Gower Street, Brightside Bierlow, Sheffield William Bishop, lodger, aged 27, Lab Steel Wks, born Mowsley, Leicestershire And in 1891 he appears to have moved a bit south to Derbyshire RG12 / 2768 / folio 73 / page 5 20 Hartington Cottages, Staveley, Derbyshire William Bishop, boarder, aged 39, General Labourer, Mowsley, Leicestershire So, perhaps the death in Sheffield in 1883 isn't so unlikely. She could have been there with (or near) her elder brother. I haven't tried searching for her other two brothers in the 1891 census. Did they stay in Leicester or did they also move to Yorkshire? Dennis. on Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:53:35 +1000, [email protected] wrote: > Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:53:35 +1000 > From: Desley Revell <[email protected]> > Subject: [LEI] Trying to Locate Ann M BISHOP > To: Leicestershire Digest <[email protected]> > > Firstly let me thank all those who replied so promptly to my query "Where > are you - Ann M Bishop". > > With regards to a Ann Mary BISHOP death registration in Sheffield in 1883. > The date fits in with her age - I wonder why, back in the 1880s she would > travel to Yorkshire to work, being so young. I am doubtful because she was > in Leicester in 1881 and with her father immigrating to Canada in 1883, he > left behind two young sons, Robert aged 15 and Arthur aged 10. I cannot > imagine her leaving her two siblings to go and work up in Yorkshire. What > do other think on this senario. > > >> >> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:10:31 +1000 >> From: Desley Revell >> Subject: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? >> To: Leicestershire Digest >> >> I have an elusive relative and am stumped as to where she has gone. >> >> Ann M Bishop was born about 1863 in Primethorpe, Leicestershire >> (Source: Ann's age is shown as 8 years making her birth around 1863. >> Registration District: Lutterworth; RG10 piece 3221 folio 12 page 17) >> >> Her parents were John Carver BISHOP and Ann ATKIN. Ann's mother died in >> 1874 in the Lutterworth District and Ann's father died in 1905 in Belleville >> City, Canada. >> >> In the 1871 census she is shown as a scholar living at Sutton-in-the Elms, >> Broughton Astley. >> >> During the 1881 census, Ann is now a teacher and living with her father at >> 23 Myrtle Road, Leicester. >> >> An article dated 1880 has been found showing that Ann M Bishop obtained >> success in an examination. >> >> Leicester Chronicle and the Leicestershire Mercury (Leicester, England) >> Saturday, July 10, 1880 >> CHURCH EDUCATION SOCIETY. The following teachers at schools in this >> district obtained successes at the examinations for thre Langham and other >> prizes in March last, and for which the awards were distributed at >> Northampton last week. >> Fourth Year, Class 2 - Ann M Bishop, St Peter's, Leicester >> >> and then she disappears. I have tried to find a marriage with no success. >> >> I did find a death for an Ann Bishop in 1887 the District of Lutterworth, >> but a relative obtained a copy and it is not our "Ann M Bishop". On >> obtaining the Death Certificate, this is what my relative said: >> Quote - We received a copy of the Ann Bishop Death Certificate but >> unfortunately it didn't match up with Ann M Bishop ,as she didn't have a >> Sister Fanny who was stated as present at time of death. Unquote >> >> Can anyone give me an ideas on further research to find this elusive >> relative. >> >> Desley >> Brisbane, Australia

Hi Desley, > I wonder why, back in the 1880s she would travel to Yorkshire to work, being so young. > I am doubtful because she was in Leicester in 1881 and with her father immigrating to Canada > in 1883, he left behind two young sons, Robert aged 15 and Arthur aged 10. I cannot imagine > her leaving her two siblings to go and work up in Yorkshire. What do other think on this scenario. There is a scenario where this kind of thing happened. If the family were poor and the father was forced to emigrate, the remaining family could become a burden on the parish. It was not unknown for the Parish Officers to deliberately look to place children in apprenticeships that were far from home, in order to minimise the chance that they would return and once again become a burden. It might be worth checking with Leicestershire Record Office to see whether there is anything in their Poor Law Index. Best wishes, Mike Gould -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Desley Revell Sent: 21 July 2012 11:54 To: Leicestershire Digest Subject: [LEI] Trying to Locate Ann M BISHOP Firstly let me thank all those who replied so promptly to my query "Where are you - Ann M Bishop". I had visitors arrive unexpectedly last week, hence my late reply. Here are some replies to suggestions put forward. I have left my original posting on this email to make things easier. To Mike Gould's suggestion - Did Ann M BISHOP have a sister-in-law called Fanny. I don't believe so. There is one brother - William (born 1854 in Mowsley) that I have no information on. Ann did have a sister called Mary Elizabeth Annie BISHOP born 1857 but I have no information on her either Sometimes I have heard that "Annie" can be short for 'Fanny", so there is a possibility that Mary Elizabeth Annie may have been known as Fanny. I will have to research that possibility. To Marsha Stringer suggestion - Did Ann M BISHOP go to Canada with her father. I do have the information on her father's Immigration and Ann certainly was not on the same ship. Some more comments on this to follow. To Nivard Ovington - Locating her birth registration and what did the "M" stand for. Like you, I have been unable to find a birth registration. It would appear that she may have been born under a different name. As a point of interest, my mother was always known by her second Christian name (not her first), so if anyone was looking for her, they would never have found her. I do not know what the "M" stands for unfortunately. To Mel Smith - with details of John Carver Bishop's immigration details to Canada. Thank you Mel. I did have this information and I do appreciate you looking this up and detailing all the information. With regards to a Ann Mary BISHOP death registration in Sheffield in 1883. The date fits in with her age - I wonder why, back in the 1880s she would travel to Yorkshire to work, being so young. I am doubtful because she was in Leicester in 1881 and with her father immigrating to Canada in 1883, he left behind two young sons, Robert aged 15 and Arthur aged 10. I cannot imagine her leaving her two siblings to go and work up in Yorkshire. What do other think on this senario. To Nivard Ovington - did John Carver BISHOP (Ann's father) leave a will when he died in Canada. I do know he died a pauper and there was an obituary for him in the local paper which stated, in part, that he had been a resident of the Home of the Friendless for some time prior to his death and that there were no relatives that the reporter identified. It is to be wondered why such a detailed article was written if he was destitute since most from the Home, with no money or relatives, are buried with little or no fanfare in the local paper. To Angie Millard - with information on Ann M Bishop's mothers burial details. Thank you Angie, but I did have this information. it is an interesting thing about Ann's father. He was married twice; firstly to Ann ATKINS in 1851 who died in 1874 and then to Mary ROBERTS in 1875 and she died in 1878. In 1871, John had been a farmer of 100 acres and then a Hay, Straw and Provision Dealer in Leicester in 1878, Then in 1879 he went bankrupt and one wonders if this was the reason he may have gone to Canada. I guess I have to try and find Ann M Bishop's birth. Does anyone have access to the Parish Records for Sutton on the Elms or Primethorpe for that period of time. It would be interesting to know what children of John & Ann Bishop were baptised around that time. To Mike, Marsha, Nivard, Mel and Angie, please accept my grateful appreciation for taking the time to research and offer suggestions to my request. Desley Revell Brisbane, Australia > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:10:31 +1000 > From: Desley Revell > Subject: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? > To: Leicestershire Digest > > > I have an elusive relative and am stumped as to where she has gone. > > Ann M Bishop was born about 1863 in Primethorpe, Leicestershire > (Source: Ann's age is shown as 8 years making her birth around 1863. Registration District: Lutterworth; RG10 piece 3221 folio 12 page 17) > > Her parents were John Carver BISHOP and Ann ATKIN. Ann's mother died in 1874 in the Lutterworth District and Ann's father died in 1905 in Belleville City, Canada. > > In the 1871 census she is shown as a scholar living at Sutton-in-the Elms, Broughton Astley. > > During the 1881 census, Ann is now a teacher and living with her father at 23 Myrtle Road, Leicester. > > An article dated 1880 has been found showing that Ann M Bishop obtained success in an examination. > > Leicester Chronicle and the Leicestershire Mercury (Leicester, England) Saturday, July 10, 1880 > CHURCH EDUCATION SOCIETY. The following teachers at schools in this district obtained successes at the examinations for thre Langham and other prizes in March last, and for which the awards were distributed at Northampton last week. > Fourth Year, Class 2 - Ann M Bishop, St Peter's, Leicester > > and then she disappears. I have tried to find a marriage with no success. > > I did find a death for an Ann Bishop in 1887 the District of Lutterworth, but a relative obtained a copy and it is not our "Ann M Bishop". On obtaining the Death Certificate, this is what my relative said: > Quote - We received a copy of the Ann Bishop Death Certificate but unfortunately it didn't match up with Ann M Bishop ,as she didn't have a Sister Fanny who was stated as present at time of death. Unquote > > Can anyone give me an ideas on further research to find this elusive relative. > > Desley > Brisbane, Australia > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:26:52 +0100 > From: "Mike Gould" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Desley, > > Before dismissing the death certificate completely, have you confirmed that > Ann didn't have a sister-in-law called Fanny ? > > Best wishes, > Mike Gould > > ------------- > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 07:51:41 -0400 > From: "M. Stringer" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Greetings, > > Your message caught my attention as I 'lost' a GAunt who disappeared fm > English records abt 1911. It took 4 years to finally 'find' her - in > Canada. > > As your Ann's father died in Canada, perhaps she was also there? > > I tried a quick check on ancestry.com (Emigration/Immigration), but didn't > see anything obvious. Didn't have time this to check Census records. > > Best of luck, > Marsha Stringer (nee MEERE) > [email protected] > USA > www.bittonfamilies.com > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:03:25 +0100 > From: Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi Desley > > I have had a rummage around but like you did not find your Ann M BISHOP > after 1881 > > As Mike rightly said, could the sister Fanny be a sister in law ? > > One thing I did notice (or rather didn't notice :-) was a birth for Ann > M BISHOP in or around 1863 > > Do you know what the M stood for? > > Several scenarios come to mind > > Was she registered under a different name than the Ann she used and > later reverted to her birth name > > She married or shacked up with someone, the marriage if there was one is > either under another name (the M?) or did not get reported to the GRO or > they didn't marry > > But as there are no candidates for a person born circa 1863 Primethorpe > or Sutton in the Elms in the later census you do wonder if she may have > emigrated or died > > If you can find out what the M stood for it may help > > The death was registered as if she was born in 1861, thats a common > error in the deaths registered but not usually in one so young > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 09:13:26 -0400 > From: "Mel Smith" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Desley: > > If you don't have him here is John in 1901 Belleville, Hastings Co, Ontario, > Canada > > Family # Surname Given Name Gender Relationship Marital Status > Birth Day Birth Year Age Birthplace Immigration > Racial Origin Religion Occupation > 272 Bishop John C Male Head Widower 18 > Sep 1827 73 England 1883 English C of E > Gardener > > And in 1891 also in Belleville > Family # Surname Given Name Gender Age Marital Status Relationship > Birthplace Religion Father's Birthplace Mother's Birthplace Occupation > 49 Bishop John C Male 68 Widowed Head England C > of E England England Farmer > > No evidence of Ann (marriage or death in Ontario) > Note that John emigrated to Canada in 1883 > There is a John Bishop age 55 arriving on 29 May 1883 at Quebec City on > board the vessel "Toronto" departed Liverpool 17 May. He is the only name > listed for his ticket 552 (No family members accompanying him) > > Did you rule out the Ann Mary Bishop death in Sheffield in 1883? > Deaths Sep 1883 > BISHOP Ann Mary 20 Sheffield 9c 274 > > Mel Smith > Whitby, Ontario, Canada > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:52:33 +0100 > From: Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > One further thought > > When John the father died in Canada did he leave a will? > > What children were mentioned if he did > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Pamela It would have helped greatly if you had given the names and details of the people you are seeking and the full census reference In each section you have quoted the part reference for there are getting on for 2000 people so without wading through all those to find your addresses its hard to give more on them The area you mention is a large one but not far from central Leicester So can you give the full census reference with names please and we can look further for you Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 22/07/2012 06:33, Pamela Furmidge wrote: > I have found three possible ancestors on the 1841 census and I wonder if anyone can tell me the locations of their addresses. They are all from Leicester - St Margaret/St Margaret with Bishops Fee. The census pages are rather faded and quite difficult to read. > > The first one is Prichard or Richard Street - the reference is HO 107/604/15 > The second is Gower or Flower or Spencer Street - reference HO 107/604/17 > The third is Northampton Street - reference HO 107/604/5 > > I have found Northampton Street on a modern map and it would seem to be the same street as some of the family's children were Christened at St George's Church and two are buried there. > > The other addresses don't seem to exist in modern Leicester, except for Spencer Street which is near Oadby and I assume from the closeness of the reference numbers the streets would be fairly close together, so the modern address is not the one I am looking for. > > If anyone can tell me either where these locations were or point me in the direction of where to find out, I would be very grateful. > > Pamela

I have found three possible ancestors on the 1841 census and I wonder if anyone can tell me the locations of their addresses.  They are all from Leicester - St Margaret/St Margaret with Bishops Fee.  The census pages are rather faded and quite difficult to read.   The first one is Prichard or Richard Street - the reference is HO 107/604/15 The second is Gower or Flower or Spencer Street - reference HO 107/604/17 The third is Northampton Street - reference HO 107/604/5   I have found Northampton Street on a modern map and it would seem to be the same street as some of the family's children were Christened at St George's Church and two are buried there.   The other addresses don't seem to exist in modern Leicester, except for Spencer Street which is near Oadby and I assume from the closeness of the reference numbers the streets would be fairly close together, so the modern address is not the one I am looking for.   If anyone can tell me either where these locations were or point me in the direction of where to find out, I would be very grateful.   Pamela

Firstly let me thank all those who replied so promptly to my query "Where are you - Ann M Bishop". I had visitors arrive unexpectedly last week, hence my late reply. Here are some replies to suggestions put forward. I have left my original posting on this email to make things easier. To Mike Gould's suggestion - Did Ann M BISHOP have a sister-in-law called Fanny. I don't believe so. There is one brother - William (born 1854 in Mowsley) that I have no information on. Ann did have a sister called Mary Elizabeth Annie BISHOP born 1857 but I have no information on her either Sometimes I have heard that "Annie" can be short for 'Fanny", so there is a possibility that Mary Elizabeth Annie may have been known as Fanny. I will have to research that possibility. To Marsha Stringer suggestion - Did Ann M BISHOP go to Canada with her father. I do have the information on her father's Immigration and Ann certainly was not on the same ship. Some more comments on this to follow. To Nivard Ovington - Locating her birth registration and what did the "M" stand for. Like you, I have been unable to find a birth registration. It would appear that she may have been born under a different name. As a point of interest, my mother was always known by her second Christian name (not her first), so if anyone was looking for her, they would never have found her. I do not know what the "M" stands for unfortunately. To Mel Smith - with details of John Carver Bishop's immigration details to Canada. Thank you Mel. I did have this information and I do appreciate you looking this up and detailing all the information. With regards to a Ann Mary BISHOP death registration in Sheffield in 1883. The date fits in with her age - I wonder why, back in the 1880s she would travel to Yorkshire to work, being so young. I am doubtful because she was in Leicester in 1881 and with her father immigrating to Canada in 1883, he left behind two young sons, Robert aged 15 and Arthur aged 10. I cannot imagine her leaving her two siblings to go and work up in Yorkshire. What do other think on this senario. To Nivard Ovington - did John Carver BISHOP (Ann's father) leave a will when he died in Canada. I do know he died a pauper and there was an obituary for him in the local paper which stated, in part, that he had been a resident of the Home of the Friendless for some time prior to his death and that there were no relatives that the reporter identified. It is to be wondered why such a detailed article was written if he was destitute since most from the Home, with no money or relatives, are buried with little or no fanfare in the local paper. To Angie Millard - with information on Ann M Bishop's mothers burial details. Thank you Angie, but I did have this information. it is an interesting thing about Ann's father. He was married twice; firstly to Ann ATKINS in 1851 who died in 1874 and then to Mary ROBERTS in 1875 and she died in 1878. In 1871, John had been a farmer of 100 acres and then a Hay, Straw and Provision Dealer in Leicester in 1878, Then in 1879 he went bankrupt and one wonders if this was the reason he may have gone to Canada. I guess I have to try and find Ann M Bishop's birth. Does anyone have access to the Parish Records for Sutton on the Elms or Primethorpe for that period of time. It would be interesting to know what children of John & Ann Bishop were baptised around that time. To Mike, Marsha, Nivard, Mel and Angie, please accept my grateful appreciation for taking the time to research and offer suggestions to my request. Desley Revell Brisbane, Australia > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:10:31 +1000 > From: Desley Revell > Subject: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? > To: Leicestershire Digest > > > I have an elusive relative and am stumped as to where she has gone. > > Ann M Bishop was born about 1863 in Primethorpe, Leicestershire > (Source: Ann's age is shown as 8 years making her birth around 1863. Registration District: Lutterworth; RG10 piece 3221 folio 12 page 17) > > Her parents were John Carver BISHOP and Ann ATKIN. Ann's mother died in 1874 in the Lutterworth District and Ann's father died in 1905 in Belleville City, Canada. > > In the 1871 census she is shown as a scholar living at Sutton-in-the Elms, Broughton Astley. > > During the 1881 census, Ann is now a teacher and living with her father at 23 Myrtle Road, Leicester. > > An article dated 1880 has been found showing that Ann M Bishop obtained success in an examination. > > Leicester Chronicle and the Leicestershire Mercury (Leicester, England) Saturday, July 10, 1880 > CHURCH EDUCATION SOCIETY. The following teachers at schools in this district obtained successes at the examinations for thre Langham and other prizes in March last, and for which the awards were distributed at Northampton last week. > Fourth Year, Class 2 - Ann M Bishop, St Peter's, Leicester > > and then she disappears. I have tried to find a marriage with no success. > > I did find a death for an Ann Bishop in 1887 the District of Lutterworth, but a relative obtained a copy and it is not our "Ann M Bishop". On obtaining the Death Certificate, this is what my relative said: > Quote - We received a copy of the Ann Bishop Death Certificate but unfortunately it didn't match up with Ann M Bishop ,as she didn't have a Sister Fanny who was stated as present at time of death. Unquote > > Can anyone give me an ideas on further research to find this elusive relative. > > Desley > Brisbane, Australia > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:26:52 +0100 > From: "Mike Gould" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Desley, > > Before dismissing the death certificate completely, have you confirmed that > Ann didn't have a sister-in-law called Fanny ? > > Best wishes, > Mike Gould > > ------------- > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 07:51:41 -0400 > From: "M. Stringer" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Greetings, > > Your message caught my attention as I 'lost' a GAunt who disappeared fm > English records abt 1911. It took 4 years to finally 'find' her - in > Canada. > > As your Ann's father died in Canada, perhaps she was also there? > > I tried a quick check on ancestry.com (Emigration/Immigration), but didn't > see anything obvious. Didn't have time this to check Census records. > > Best of luck, > Marsha Stringer (nee MEERE) > [email protected] > USA > www.bittonfamilies.com > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:03:25 +0100 > From: Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi Desley > > I have had a rummage around but like you did not find your Ann M BISHOP > after 1881 > > As Mike rightly said, could the sister Fanny be a sister in law ? > > One thing I did notice (or rather didn't notice :-) was a birth for Ann > M BISHOP in or around 1863 > > Do you know what the M stood for? > > Several scenarios come to mind > > Was she registered under a different name than the Ann she used and > later reverted to her birth name > > She married or shacked up with someone, the marriage if there was one is > either under another name (the M?) or did not get reported to the GRO or > they didn't marry > > But as there are no candidates for a person born circa 1863 Primethorpe > or Sutton in the Elms in the later census you do wonder if she may have > emigrated or died > > If you can find out what the M stood for it may help > > The death was registered as if she was born in 1861, thats a common > error in the deaths registered but not usually in one so young > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 09:13:26 -0400 > From: "Mel Smith" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Desley: > > If you don't have him here is John in 1901 Belleville, Hastings Co, Ontario, > Canada > > Family # Surname Given Name Gender Relationship Marital Status > Birth Day Birth Year Age Birthplace Immigration > Racial Origin Religion Occupation > 272 Bishop John C Male Head Widower 18 > Sep 1827 73 England 1883 English C of E > Gardener > > And in 1891 also in Belleville > Family # Surname Given Name Gender Age Marital Status Relationship > Birthplace Religion Father's Birthplace Mother's Birthplace Occupation > 49 Bishop John C Male 68 Widowed Head England C > of E England England Farmer > > No evidence of Ann (marriage or death in Ontario) > Note that John emigrated to Canada in 1883 > There is a John Bishop age 55 arriving on 29 May 1883 at Quebec City on > board the vessel "Toronto" departed Liverpool 17 May. He is the only name > listed for his ticket 552 (No family members accompanying him) > > Did you rule out the Ann Mary Bishop death in Sheffield in 1883? > Deaths Sep 1883 > BISHOP Ann Mary 20 Sheffield 9c 274 > > Mel Smith > Whitby, Ontario, Canada > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:52:33 +0100 > From: Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [LEI] Where are you - Ann M Bishop? > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > One further thought > > When John the father died in Canada did he leave a will? > > What children were mentioned if he did > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > >

Hi Desley Although a person may (and often are/were) be known as a totally different name to that they were baptised or registered with I have not come across Annie being an alternative for Fanny (thats not to say it isn't one but have not come across it) Francis yes or even Francesca It could be that Mary Elizabeth Annie *could* have been known as Fanny but generally people use their proper names in the census (but not always :-) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 21/07/2012 11:53, Desley Revell wrote: > To Mike Gould's suggestion - Did Ann M BISHOP have a sister-in-law called Fanny. > I don't believe so. There is one brother - William (born 1854 in Mowsley) that I have no information on. > Ann did have a sister called Mary Elizabeth Annie BISHOP born 1857 but I have no information on her either > Sometimes I have heard that "Annie" can be short for 'Fanny", so there is a possibility that Mary Elizabeth Annie may have been known as Fanny. > I will have to research that possibility.

We've been watching it here in Ontario, Canada too! Great series! I wish there were more such well-done productions. Sher At 10:01 AM 18/07/2012 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Carolyn, > >Yes, I've very much enjoyed the series too. It reminds us that there are >large numbers of documents that are useful for family history but which >sadly are not available over the internet. Kibworth is exceptional in terms >of the volume of documents that have survived, mainly due to the connection >with Merton College, but most parishes have some "parish chest" and manorial >documents. Michael Wood spent a lot of time with the staff of the >Leicestershire Record Office, finding out what was available, so that he had >evidence to back up his narrative. I understand from people who worked with >him that he is that unusual combination of a good TV presenter and a >well-respected and knowledgeable academic. > >Best wishes, > >Mike > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Carolyn >Perkes >Sent: 18 July 2012 03:19 >To: [email protected] >Subject: [LEI] Kibworth > >Have been watching this documentary on this side of the pond on PBS. >(Story of England, Michael Wood) > >http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00tw231 > >I must say that while the series crams in quite a bit and goes off on all >kinds of tangents, I've found it helpful in putting my mysterious >Leicestershire-born coachman ancestor who was probably from Essex (or >somewhere else) into a much broader perspective. > >Carolyn > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/5134 - Release Date: 07/15/12 >18:34:00

I haven't seen the Kibworth series, but over the years Michael Wood has presented a number of television series and written books to go with them. The first that I remember from the late eighties, was "In Search of the Trojan War" which was excellent. If I ever see a television programme advertised as being present by Michael Wood, I make a point of watching it. Not only is her very erudite, but he's also got the knack of a good raconteur. David Armstrong Maylands, Western Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Gould To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [LEI] Kibworth Hi Carolyn, Kibworth is exceptional in terms of the volume of documents that have survived, mainly due to the connection with Merton College, but most parishes have some "parish chest" and manorial documents. Michael Wood spent a lot of time with the staff of the Leicestershire Record Office, finding out what was available, so that he had evidence to back up his narrative. I understand from people who worked with him that he is that unusual combination of a good TV presenter and a well-respected and knowledgeable academic. Best wishes, Mike

Hi Carolyn, Yes, I've very much enjoyed the series too. It reminds us that there are large numbers of documents that are useful for family history but which sadly are not available over the internet. Kibworth is exceptional in terms of the volume of documents that have survived, mainly due to the connection with Merton College, but most parishes have some "parish chest" and manorial documents. Michael Wood spent a lot of time with the staff of the Leicestershire Record Office, finding out what was available, so that he had evidence to back up his narrative. I understand from people who worked with him that he is that unusual combination of a good TV presenter and a well-respected and knowledgeable academic. Best wishes, Mike -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Carolyn Perkes Sent: 18 July 2012 03:19 To: [email protected] Subject: [LEI] Kibworth Have been watching this documentary on this side of the pond on PBS. (Story of England, Michael Wood) http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00tw231 I must say that while the series crams in quite a bit and goes off on all kinds of tangents, I've found it helpful in putting my mysterious Leicestershire-born coachman ancestor who was probably from Essex (or somewhere else) into a much broader perspective. Carolyn ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Have been watching this documentary on this side of the pond on PBS. (Story of England, Michael Wood) http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00tw231 I must say that while the series crams in quite a bit and goes off on all kinds of tangents, I've found it helpful in putting my mysterious Leicestershire-born coachman ancestor who was probably from Essex (or somewhere else) into a much broader perspective. Carolyn

Thank you to everyone who posted an entry to my query on locating Ann M Bishop. I have a few comments to make, but when I posted the query to the Digest, I have since had family arrive unexpectedly for a few days stay. As soon as I am free I will reply to everyone. I was amazed at how quickly some very kind people responded. Thank you all most sincerely. I will write again and thank you all personally as well as responding to some suggestions. Watch this space Desley, Brisbane, Austrfalia

I have an elusive relative and am stumped as to where she has gone. Ann M Bishop was born about 1863 in Primethorpe, Leicestershire (Source: Ann's age is shown as 8 years making her birth around 1863. Registration District: Lutterworth; RG10 piece 3221 folio 12 page 17) Her parents were John Carver BISHOP and Ann ATKIN. Ann's mother died in 1874 in the Lutterworth District and Ann's father died in 1905 in Belleville City, Canada. In the 1871 census she is shown as a scholar living at Sutton-in-the Elms, Broughton Astley. During the 1881 census, Ann is now a teacher and living with her father at 23 Myrtle Road, Leicester. An article dated 1880 has been found showing that Ann M Bishop obtained success in an examination. Leicester Chronicle and the Leicestershire Mercury (Leicester, England) Saturday, July 10, 1880 CHURCH EDUCATION SOCIETY. The following teachers at schools in this district obtained successes at the examinations for thre Langham and other prizes in March last, and for which the awards were distributed at Northampton last week. Fourth Year, Class 2 - Ann M Bishop, St Peter's, Leicester and then she disappears. I have tried to find a marriage with no success. I did find a death for an Ann Bishop in 1887 the District of Lutterworth, but a relative obtained a copy and it is not our "Ann M Bishop". On obtaining the Death Certificate, this is what my relative said: Quote - We received a copy of the Ann Bishop Death Certificate but unfortunately it didn't match up with Ann M Bishop ,as she didn't have a Sister Fanny who was stated as present at time of death. Unquote Can anyone give me an ideas on further research to find this elusive relative. Desley Brisbane, Australia

One further thought When John the father died in Canada did he leave a will? What children were mentioned if he did Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 12/07/2012 11:10, Desley Revell wrote: > I have an elusive relative and am stumped as to where she has gone. > > Ann M Bishop was born about 1863 in Primethorpe, Leicestershire > (Source: Ann's age is shown as 8 years making her birth around 1863. Registration District: Lutterworth; RG10 piece 3221 folio 12 page 17) > > Her parents were John Carver BISHOP and Ann ATKIN. Ann's mother died in 1874 in the Lutterworth District and Ann's father died in 1905 in Belleville City, Canada. >