Thanks to all who responded to my query on this subject. I figured it would end up being a matter of speculation because Ancestry.co.uk doesn't have a census back to the 1600s. All your suggestions were interesting and appreciated. I agree with the person who commented on how responsive this list is. You're a great group. Evelyn **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

MissEv1017@aol.com wrote: > Could anyone who may be familiar with this subject tell me if it was common > for people who had servants to keep the offspring of those servants as both > families grew? > Also, would it be logical to surmise that children of the original servants > would be sent to serve in the homes of the landowner's offspring? > If so, what are the chances that the same servant's name might be attached > to the family surname for 100 years or more, even accompanying them to the > States? It would depend very much on the employer as to whether they kept on a girl who'd had an illegitimate child, let alone the child as well. It was far more usual for the girl to lose her employment. If the employer had a married couple on his staff, then obviously the servants' children would remain with their parents. In which case, it is entirely possible for the servants' children to then be taken on by the employer's children when they eventually had their own homes. As to whether the same family continued in service for a 100+ years would depend on how common the surname was. If it was SMITH, then it's probably not the same family. If it was a highly unusual name then there's a good chance that it was the same one. A valued member of staff could certainly have accompanied the family abroad either temporarily or permanently but that would also depend on the member of staff being willing to settle abroad permanently. The were no hard and fast rules so only way you are going to know for sure what did happen is to research the servant/s family/ies, otherwise it is as you say: speculation.

My grandmother was a Lady's companion up to 1914, and used to tell me tales of the goings on at the Big House. It was quite common for members of the indoor staff to marry one of the outdoor staff (e.g. I know of a coachman marrying a lady's maid, and a gamekeeper married the under cook). They would be given either a tied cottage or rooms over the stables (have seen some of them and they were quite large). Their children would often become servants too - gardeners and maids, footmen and kitchen staff. The wife would often be asked to come back to lend a hand when they had a big do on (engagement party for the son of the house was one such party with 40 guests stopping the night). This cycle would repeat itself with each generation - only the Great War (WW1) stopped it as so many of the male servants were killed on the Somme and never came back Hope this helpsSue Hope > From: MissEv1017@aol.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 19:09:28 -0500> To: LEICESTERSHIRE-PLUS@rootsweb.com> Subject: [LEI] Speculation on Families and Servants> > Could anyone who may be familiar with this subject tell me if it was common > for people who had servants to keep the offspring of those servants as both > families grew?> Also, would it be logical to surmise that children of the original servants > would be sent to serve in the homes of the landowner's offspring? > If so, what are the chances that the same servant's name might be attached > to the family surname for 100 years or more, even accompanying them to the > States?> > I know I'm wording this awkwardly but I'll send it anyway, hoping someone > can understand me. > Evelyn> > > > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489> > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LEICESTERSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Who's friends with who and co-starred in what? http://www.searchgamesbox.com/celebrityseparation.shtml

Hi Evelyn, My great grandmother was Ellen Cheeseman, daughter of Frederick & Lydia Cheeseman. In the late 1800s Lydia was a lady's maid and Frederick a coachman to the same London family. Ellen (and her sisters, I assume) were educated with the daughters of the family until they were 10 years old or so, when they started work in the kitchens and worked their way up through the servant hierarchy before getting married. I suppose it made sense to employ people whose backgrounds were already known, rather than advertise for potentially risky people to work in your household. Researching my friend's ancestry I also found a gamekeeper whose son and grandson later became gamekeepers on the same estate. Again, the employer would be getting a worker of known provenance and skill, and the worker could stay in familiar surroundings, so everyone benefitted. I don't know whether servants would move away when family members left the nest, but it might make sense for a daughter to take a trusted family servant with her when she married and left home. Regards, Ellie > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 19:09:28 EST > From: MissEv1017@aol.com > Subject: [LEI] > To: LEICESTERSHIRE-PLUS@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <cce.228ffb4b.34aed338@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Could anyone who may be familiar with this subject tell me if it was common > for people who had servants to keep the offspring of those servants as both > families grew? > Also, would it be logical to surmise that children of the original servants > would be sent to serve in the homes of the landowner's offspring? > If so, what are the chances that the same servant's name might be attached > to the family surname for 100 years or more, even accompanying them to the > States? > > I know I'm wording this awkwardly but I'll send it anyway, hoping someone > can understand me. > Evelyn

Good Day While on this subject did you know that when the 1st Battalion Leicetershire Regiment moved around the World some of the Officer's wives brought their maids with them Bill Stratton Nova Scotia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laura Thomas" <ellie.thomas@ntlworld.com> To: <leicestershire-plus@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [LEI] Speculation on Families and Servants > Hi Evelyn, > > My great grandmother was Ellen Cheeseman, daughter of Frederick & Lydia > Cheeseman. In the late 1800s Lydia was a lady's maid and Frederick a > coachman to the same London family. Ellen (and her sisters, I assume) > were

BEETLES all any where. BOOT(T) - Nottingham (catholic?) 1820> Leicester St Margaret > c 1820 GREGG - Gedling / Carlton (NOTTS) c 1860 > Redmile c1790 > DAY - Redmile c1700 > EVANS - looking for a Catherine EVANS who married 1761 at Peatling Magna HAND - Long Clawson c1687 HEBB - Upper Broughton / Broughton Sulney c1700 HORTON - Bottesford c1772 MERWIN - looking for a Catherine MERWIN that married 1789 in Market Harborough REDDALL - Willoughby Waterleys c1740> ROBERTS - looking for a Mary ROBERTS that married in 1740 in Willoughby Waterleys. Happy New Year to All David in Ilkeston

HI, I'm new here, so I hope I'm doing this right! My Leicestershire interests are mainly the Staples and Marsdens from Hugglescoat, Swannington and Coleorton. MaryMc

Hi Linda, I hope that this helps http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyLe icester.htm#PageTitle You'll need to ensure that the whole address appears on one line or go to http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm and follow the links Sandra -----Original Message----- From: leicestershire-plus-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:leicestershire-plus-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Linda Fiorentino Sent: Thursday, 3 January 2008 7:43 PM To: LEICESTERSHIRE-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [LEI] LDS Batch file numbers for Belgrave Hi Please forgive the idiot writing this email. She has misplaced the list she had on the batch file numbers for LDS which cover Belgrave. If anyone out there has a copy, would they be so kind as to refresh my memory as to where I can find it. Or possibly send me a copy off list. (fiorel@bigpond.net.au) cheers Linda LRFHS Member #F0298; SAG Member #4825; WAGS Member #10490 researching - ASTON - Staffordshire UK; BILLINGTON - Belgrave, Leicestershire & WA; BROWN - Middlesex, England; CONNOR - Philipstown, Co. Offaly, Ireland, Windsor, NSW; DERRY - Belgrave, Leicestershire; GARNER - Wasperton, Warwickshire; GODDARD - Kenilworth & Coventry,Warwickshire; GOODWIN - Caddington, Bedfordshire, Sydney, NSW; GREENWAY - Staffordshire UK, Belmont WA, Bairnsdale Viv; HARRIS - Belgrave, Leicestershire; KELLY - Armagh, Co. Armagh, Ireland, Melbourne, VIC; LUMLEY - Belgrave, Leicestershire; MARKS - Kenilworth, Warwickshire; MURPHY - Midleton, Co. Cork, Ireland; O'BRIEN - Co. Clare, Ireland; SMITH - Belgrave, Leicestershire, Perth WA; WILLIS - London, England, Albany WA, Sydney NSW & Melbourne VIC; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LEICESTERSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Could anyone who may be familiar with this subject tell me if it was common for people who had servants to keep the offspring of those servants as both families grew? Also, would it be logical to surmise that children of the original servants would be sent to serve in the homes of the landowner's offspring? If so, what are the chances that the same servant's name might be attached to the family surname for 100 years or more, even accompanying them to the States? I know I'm wording this awkwardly but I'll send it anyway, hoping someone can understand me. Evelyn **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

Hi Please forgive the idiot writing this email. She has misplaced the list she had on the batch file numbers for LDS which cover Belgrave. If anyone out there has a copy, would they be so kind as to refresh my memory as to where I can find it. Or possibly send me a copy off list. (fiorel@bigpond.net.au) cheers Linda LRFHS Member #F0298; SAG Member #4825; WAGS Member #10490 researching - ASTON - Staffordshire UK; BILLINGTON - Belgrave, Leicestershire & WA; BROWN - Middlesex, England; CONNOR - Philipstown, Co. Offaly, Ireland, Windsor, NSW; DERRY - Belgrave, Leicestershire; GARNER - Wasperton, Warwickshire; GODDARD - Kenilworth & Coventry,Warwickshire; GOODWIN - Caddington, Bedfordshire, Sydney, NSW; GREENWAY - Staffordshire UK, Belmont WA, Bairnsdale Viv; HARRIS - Belgrave, Leicestershire; KELLY - Armagh, Co. Armagh, Ireland, Melbourne, VIC; LUMLEY - Belgrave, Leicestershire; MARKS - Kenilworth, Warwickshire; MURPHY - Midleton, Co. Cork, Ireland; O'BRIEN - Co. Clare, Ireland; SMITH - Belgrave, Leicestershire, Perth WA; WILLIS - London, England, Albany WA, Sydney NSW & Melbourne VIC;

Happy New Year to all on the list, I'm having trouble reading an image from CD. Would someone please check the original image of the 1841 Census of Newbold Verdon for Robert GIBSON 40yrs, Mary GIBSON, and Elizabeth GIBSON 19yrs. >From the CD copy and can't tell Mary's age or if she was born in the county. It seems that she died in 1850 as Robert is listed as a widower in the 1851 Census. Thanks Sandra

Hi Sandra Mary is 60. She is not born in the county - looks to me like an F for foreighn parts. I will send an image to you. Vern in Ontario > > I'm having trouble reading an image from CD. Would someone please check > the > original image of the 1841 Census of Newbold Verdon for Robert GIBSON > 40yrs, > Mary GIBSON, and Elizabeth GIBSON 19yrs. > >>From the CD copy and can't tell Mary's age or if she was born in the >>county. > It seems that she died in 1850 as Robert is listed as a widower in the > 1851 > Census.

Many thanks to Alison, Debs, Heather, John K and John W, all of whom helped me with my mystery. I am truly amazed at the kindness of you all. cheers Linda LRFHS Member #F0298; SAG Member #4825; WAGS Member #10490 researching - ASTON - Staffordshire UK; BILLINGTON - Belgrave, Leicestershire & WA; BROWN - Middlesex, England; CONNOR - Philipstown, Co. Offaly, Ireland, Windsor, NSW; DERRY - Belgrave, Leicestershire; GARNER - Wasperton, Warwickshire; GODDARD - Kenilworth & Coventry,Warwickshire; GOODWIN - Caddington, Bedfordshire, Sydney, NSW; GREENWAY - Staffordshire UK, Belmont WA, Bairnsdale Viv; HARRIS - Belgrave, Leicestershire; KELLY - Armagh, Co. Armagh, Ireland, Melbourne, VIC; LUMLEY - Belgrave, Leicestershire; MARKS - Kenilworth, Warwickshire; MURPHY - Midleton, Co. Cork, Ireland; O'BRIEN - Co. Clare, Ireland; SMITH - Belgrave, Leicestershire, Perth WA; WILLIS - London, England, Albany WA, Sydney NSW & Melbourne VIC; -----Original Message----- From: leicestershire-plus-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:leicestershire-plus-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Alison Bendall Sent: Wednesday, 2 January 2008 12:28 AM To: LEICESTERSHIRE-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [LEI] Rudkin family missing in 1861 Image sent off list Happy New Year to all Listers ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LEICESTERSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi and a Happy New Year to all I have a little mystery and am hoping that someone can help me to solve it. I have William & Elizabeth RUDKIN, with Tom all present and accounted for in 1851 census. Newtown Linford, Leicestershire. Then I have William, Elizabeth with children Sarah Ann, Helen, Vere all present and accounted for in 1871 census in Ulverscroft. Tom is no where to be seen In 1881 Elizabeth is dead; William, Sarah Ann and Vere are all happily still in Ulverscroft, Tom is still no where to be seen. The problem is .... in the census for 1861 they have all disappeared ( at least I can't find them and believe me I have tried). If there is someone on the list who can help me to find this elusive family, I would be most grateful. cheers Linda LRFHS Member #F0298; SAG Member #4825; WAGS Member #10490 researching - ASTON - Staffordshire UK; BILLINGTON - Belgrave, Leicestershire & WA; BROWN - Middlesex, England; CONNOR - Philipstown, Co. Offaly, Ireland, Windsor, NSW; DERRY - Belgrave, Leicestershire; GARNER - Wasperton, Warwickshire; GODDARD - Kenilworth & Coventry,Warwickshire; GOODWIN - Caddington, Bedfordshire, Sydney, NSW; GREENWAY - Staffordshire UK, Belmont WA, Bairnsdale Viv; HARRIS - Belgrave, Leicestershire; KELLY - Armagh, Co. Armagh, Ireland, Melbourne, VIC; LUMLEY - Belgrave, Leicestershire; MARKS - Kenilworth, Warwickshire; MURPHY - Midleton, Co. Cork, Ireland; O'BRIEN - Co. Clare, Ireland; SMITH - Belgrave, Leicestershire, Perth WA; WILLIS - London, England, Albany WA, Sydney NSW & Melbourne VIC;

Linda & Listers, Transcribed on Ancestry 1861 Census as RUDKER. Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 2281; Folio: 6; Page: 6; GSU roll: 542948. Happy New Year one and all! Regards, John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Fiorentino" <fiorel@bigpond.net.au> To: <LEICESTERSHIRE-PLUS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 3:00 PM Subject: [LEI] RUDKIN family missing in 1861 > Hi and a Happy New Year to all > > I have a little mystery and am hoping that someone can help me to solve > it. > > I have William & Elizabeth RUDKIN, with Tom all present and accounted for > in > 1851 census. Newtown Linford, Leicestershire. > > Then I have William, Elizabeth with children Sarah Ann, Helen, Vere all > present and accounted for in 1871 census in Ulverscroft. Tom is no where > to > be seen > > In 1881 Elizabeth is dead; William, Sarah Ann and Vere are all happily > still > in Ulverscroft, Tom is still no where to be seen. > > > The problem is .... in the census for 1861 they have all disappeared ( at > least I can't find them and believe me I have tried). > > If there is someone on the list who can help me to find this elusive > family, > I would be most grateful. > > cheers > Linda

Image sent off list Happy New Year to all Listers

If you wasnt a site that will host yout tree, photos, etc to be shared just with people you invite, I like MyFamily.com like MyHeritage there is a freeversion or a pay version i pay $30 per year and currently have my tree with 15600 names, about 600 photos and some other things and still have lots of available space Vern in Ontario

Has anyone ever found these two sites helpful? I meant to add that and didn't. I really haven't. I glanced at the sites but nothing jumped out at me. I wasn't sure. There are probably better websites maybe? Cheryl

Smells like SPAM to Me! ============= From: "angel_wings1953" <angel_wings1953@sbcglobal.net> To: <mishiawa@rootsweb.com>, <MISAGINA@rootsweb.com>, <miiosco@rootsweb.com>, <migenese@rootsweb.com>, "MI Midland" <mimidlan@rootsweb.com>, <mcardle@rootsweb.com>, <MI-CEMETERIES@rootsweb.com>, "Staffordshire England" <STAFFORDSHIRE@rootsweb.com>, "Nottinghamshire England" <NOTTSGEN@rootsweb.com>, "MONUMENT INSCRIPTIONS ENGLAND" <MI-ENGLAND@rootsweb.com>, "LEICESTERSHIRE ENGLAND" <LEICESTERSHIRE-PLUS@rootsweb.com>, "Derbyshire ENGLAND" <derbysgen@rootsweb.com>, "england Roots" <england-roots@rootsweb.com> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:38:15 -0500 Subject: [LEI] GenCircles & MyHeritage Just wanted to share this, if I'm allowed to. Cheryl Dear GenCircles User, Pearl Street Software, maker of GenCircles and Family Tree Legends, has merged with MyHeritage ( http://www.myheritage.com ), recently named one of the best genealogy Websites of the year 2007 by Family Tree Magazine. In the first positive development from this merger, Family Tree Legends and GenCircles have been made 100% free! Now, to celebrate the holidays - the perfect time for spending quality time with family - we have a new announcement to share with you. The combined teams of Pearl Street Software and MyHeritage have been hard at work, developing next generation technology to connect family trees. We now bring you Smart Matching 2.0 - free for GenCircles and MyHeritage users! What is Smart Matching(tm)? Smart Matching is a specialized genealogy technology developed by Pearl Street Software and further advanced by MyHeritage, to connect family trees. It works by comparing millions of names, facts and tree connections - intelligently. When two family trees are connected, both their owners are informed, and benefit from the opportunity to collaborate and learn from each other. Imagine the discoveries made possible when hundreds of thousands of family trees become connected... What's new in Smart Matching 2.0? In version 2.0, Smart Matching has just gotten smarter. Behind the scenes, new algorithms were added to cover spelling and phonetic variations, understand nicknames and name synonyms and deal better with ethnic variations. In the front, a brand new AJAX interface has been added for viewing any two matching trees side-by-side, to help tree owners quickly spot what they may learn from the other tree. Using Smart Matching 2.0, MyHeritage is well on its way to build a connected family tree of the world, with 200 million names, and many more added every day. To see examples of the new side-by-side display, visit our blog at http://www.myheritage.com/blogs/companyblog/ and scroll down. What's available on MyHeritage.com? In addition to GenCircles.com and Family Tree Legends, MyHeritage offers a system of more than one million private family sites, created and maintained by its users. Each family site features a family tree which can be edited securely online, or managed offline and published to the Web. Family sites are a great place to keep in touch with family online with photo sharing, event calendars, family news, recipes, polls and more features. Access to family sites is restricted to family members only, but sites can be made partially accessible to guests, while maintaining privacy. How can I get my Smart Matches? GenCircles users who have a family tree on GenCircles can now enjoy it on their own MyHeritage family site too, for free. The new family trees and family sites are password-protected and secure, for your eyes only. Access information will be emailed to you in a separate email. In a few days we will be emailing all users for whom positive Smart Matches were found, with links to view their Smart Matches securely. Prepare for some exciting new discoveries in your family tree! If you haven't got a family tree on MyHeritage yet, start one today at http://www.myheritage.com, and get your Smart Matches! Can we trust MyHeritage as a good steward for our data? One of the reasons Pearl Street Software chose to merge with MyHeritage was our absolute respect for users' data. Family trees on MyHeritage are owned by the users and we immediately carry out any privacy related request. MyHeritage has built its reputation by respecting users and their data, and this trust has made MyHeritage one of the world's fastest growing genealogy Websites. The combined teams of MyHeritage and Pearl Street Software are committed more than ever to providing the best genealogy products and services, and keeping them free. Happy holidays, MyHeritage team To stop receiving any emails from MyHeritage, respond to this email with the subject line "unsubscribe". ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LEICESTERSHIRE-PLUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ============= SPAM to me.......

Just wanted to share this, if I'm allowed to. Cheryl Dear GenCircles User, Pearl Street Software, maker of GenCircles and Family Tree Legends, has merged with MyHeritage ( http://www.myheritage.com ), recently named one of the best genealogy Websites of the year 2007 by Family Tree Magazine. In the first positive development from this merger, Family Tree Legends and GenCircles have been made 100% free! Now, to celebrate the holidays - the perfect time for spending quality time with family - we have a new announcement to share with you. The combined teams of Pearl Street Software and MyHeritage have been hard at work, developing next generation technology to connect family trees. We now bring you Smart Matching 2.0 - free for GenCircles and MyHeritage users! What is Smart Matching(tm)? Smart Matching is a specialized genealogy technology developed by Pearl Street Software and further advanced by MyHeritage, to connect family trees. It works by comparing millions of names, facts and tree connections - intelligently. When two family trees are connected, both their owners are informed, and benefit from the opportunity to collaborate and learn from each other. Imagine the discoveries made possible when hundreds of thousands of family trees become connected... What's new in Smart Matching 2.0? In version 2.0, Smart Matching has just gotten smarter. Behind the scenes, new algorithms were added to cover spelling and phonetic variations, understand nicknames and name synonyms and deal better with ethnic variations. In the front, a brand new AJAX interface has been added for viewing any two matching trees side-by-side, to help tree owners quickly spot what they may learn from the other tree. Using Smart Matching 2.0, MyHeritage is well on its way to build a connected family tree of the world, with 200 million names, and many more added every day. To see examples of the new side-by-side display, visit our blog at http://www.myheritage.com/blogs/companyblog/ and scroll down. What's available on MyHeritage.com? In addition to GenCircles.com and Family Tree Legends, MyHeritage offers a system of more than one million private family sites, created and maintained by its users. Each family site features a family tree which can be edited securely online, or managed offline and published to the Web. Family sites are a great place to keep in touch with family online with photo sharing, event calendars, family news, recipes, polls and more features. Access to family sites is restricted to family members only, but sites can be made partially accessible to guests, while maintaining privacy. How can I get my Smart Matches? GenCircles users who have a family tree on GenCircles can now enjoy it on their own MyHeritage family site too, for free. The new family trees and family sites are password-protected and secure, for your eyes only. Access information will be emailed to you in a separate email. In a few days we will be emailing all users for whom positive Smart Matches were found, with links to view their Smart Matches securely. Prepare for some exciting new discoveries in your family tree! If you haven't got a family tree on MyHeritage yet, start one today at http://www.myheritage.com, and get your Smart Matches! Can we trust MyHeritage as a good steward for our data? One of the reasons Pearl Street Software chose to merge with MyHeritage was our absolute respect for users' data. Family trees on MyHeritage are owned by the users and we immediately carry out any privacy related request. MyHeritage has built its reputation by respecting users and their data, and this trust has made MyHeritage one of the world's fastest growing genealogy Websites. The combined teams of MyHeritage and Pearl Street Software are committed more than ever to providing the best genealogy products and services, and keeping them free. Happy holidays, MyHeritage team To stop receiving any emails from MyHeritage, respond to this email with the subject line "unsubscribe".