Hi Bob You can order the certificate online http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ The reference you need is England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915 about Alexander Ensor Name: Alexander Ensor spouse Caroline MEE Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1887 Registration district: Loughborough Inferred County: Leicestershire Volume Number: 7a Page Number: 226 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > My grt grand parents Alexander Ensor and Caroline Mee were married 27 > August 1887 at the > General Baptist Church in Loughborough (according to the Saturday 3 > Sept. 1887 issue of the > Leicester Chronicle) > > Does anyone have access to the church registers to be able to obtain a > copy of the marriage > entry, or obtain a description of what the entry says, or give me > directions on how to go about > obtaining same? > > thanx > > Bob Marttila in Hamilton, Ontario

Hi Listers, When I moved up to Leicester from London, I thought I was learning a whole new language. Cob? Bap? In London we just had rolls but I did eventually realise a cob was crusty and a bap was soft. A round of bread? I thought most loaves were squarish and then the penny dropped that the locals were referring to a slice of bread. I found out too that in Leicester they used the word "jitty" for an alleyway and they mashed the tea whereas in London we only mashed potatoes. Mending the fire conjured up visions of hammer and chisel. In London we simply put more coal on. I'm sure I could think of many more but these immediately come to mind. Lesley

Hi Brian, "Ay up me duck" and frit are very Leicester. We've been in Australia 31 years and my Husband still talks like this. Gill. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Binns Sent: Friday, 3 February 2012 8:31 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters 3 I'm originally from Nottingham, and I know that there have been many booklets written on the local Nottingham dialect. I particularly remember one called "Ay up me duck" which just about summarise it in the title. I am not aware of any Leicester ones though. I now live in Loughborough which is a bit cosmopolitan, but go to Shepshed and listen to some of the older folk and there is a distinct dialect. Enough to make you frit! Brian Binns -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 03 February 2012 12:24 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters 3 Brian, In south-west Leicestershire in the 1940s the term "worited" was often used in speech - though I never saw it written down. As you say it meant worried. Malcolm Wardle "... Given some of the poor spelling, at least the writer wrote it as spoken, which makes me think that the word "worited" was actually the way they spoke. Was this therefore a dialect word for worried? Also, as she did in another letter, Elizabeth uses the word "betimes" to mean at the current time. Again possibly a dialect word. ..." _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A wonderful place to read the Leicestershire, especially Hinckley, dialect is to look at the David Wood website, http://www.oralhistory.co.uk/ . Have a look at the top box marked Chelps, or any of the headings, will take you to David’s marvellous talks that he has had with some of the older residents of the area. Jeff & Michele in good old Barwell

My grt grand parents Alexander Ensor and Caroline Mee were married 27 August 1887 at the General Baptist Church in Loughborough (according to the Saturday 3 Sept. 1887 issue of the Leicester Chronicle) Does anyone have access to the church registers to be able to obtain a copy of the marriage entry, or obtain a description of what the entry says, or give me directions on how to go about obtaining same? thanx Bob Marttila in Hamilton, Ontario

I have just "found" the copy of a letter written to John Eaglesfield prior to all the others I have transcribed. This one is from 1854. As I said at the start of this, I was sent these by a descendant of this John Eaglesfield, Bob Downing, who lives in New York State. I have had them "on file" for a few years now but thought that I would share them. For those who read all the previous ones, they might remember that John Eaglesfield had left home and was living in County Durham and working for the North Eastern Railway. This was in the late 1850s and through the 1860s. However, I have him on the 1851 census working as a servant at The Vicarage in Little Dalby, Leicestershire. Having searched the 1851 census, I cannot establish who this Mr. Knagg is. In fact, given that the stamp has been torn off the envelope and taken some of the writing, it could be that his name is Knaggs. However I have traced Mr. Killock. There is a Bryan Killock who is the Rector at Edmonthorpe, Leicestershire in the censuses of 1851 and 1861, so I would guess that John Eaglesfield went to work for him after Little Dalby. The writer of this letter, Richard Stephens was the Vicar of Belgrave, so this all fits together. It would seem then that John was obviously fed up with working on the Railway and wanted to get back to Leicestershire. Whether or not he took up this job offer we will never know. He was certainly back in Durham by 1861 because his marriage is registered in the December quarter in Stockton. Addressed to: Mr. John Eaglesfield c/o George Knagg Hinchcliffe Cottage N.E. Railway Durham Belgrave 30 May 1854 John Eaglesfield, I have received a satisfactory character of you from Mr Killock; but he says he can give no opinion of your capabilities of driving a carriage in such a Town as Leicester, as he never employed you for such a purpose. I hope, however, you can do so and will, therefore, engage you at the wages you ask - viz: 14 Pounds a year - you finding your own clothing, and you may come next Saturday. The living is a month's notice or a month's warning. I am yours Richard Stephens _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12

And then we have Crumpets versus Pikelets ! I have to agree that a bacon Tea cake does not sound very appetising :-( However a bacon and egg cob certainly does :-) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Which reminds me, although only a few miles from Sheffield, the bread cake > suddenly turns into a tea cake in Barnsley. Everywhere else a tea cake is > sweet with currants in, but not in Barnsley. > > The thought of a bacon tea cake is most odd. > > Brian

Which reminds me, although only a few miles from Sheffield, the bread cake suddenly turns into a tea cake in Barnsley. Everywhere else a tea cake is sweet with currants in, but not in Barnsley. The thought of a bacon tea cake is most odd. Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Charles Sidebottom Sent: 03 February 2012 15:14 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LEI] Dialect No one has yet mentioned the Yorkshire (specifically, Barnsley) dialect which my grandfather used even though he was born in Hugglescote and grew up there before moving to Barnsley. As an American, I find this one nearly unintelligible! (Grin!) --Carolyn -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 7:48 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LEI] Dialect On the subject of Leicester dialect There is Leicestershire words, phrases, and proverbs. Edited, with additions and an introd. (1881) Available from www.archive.org Select Texts So you can either read online or download your own copy should you not wish to employ an interpretor <g> Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12

For fascinating regional voice recordings go to the British Library website : http://sounds.bl.uk/Search and select 'Leicestershire' and 'accents and dialects' in the 2 resulting search boxes. (Note dates on the right hand side : the earlier the recording, the stronger the accent tends to be.) Jill

On the subject of Leicester dialect There is Leicestershire words, phrases, and proverbs. Edited, with additions and an introd. (1881) Available from www.archive.org Select Texts So you can either read online or download your own copy should you not wish to employ an interpretor <g> Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Likewise asking for an "Okie" gets some odd looks As does "cheers luv" on occasion Another way we could tell Leicesterites was if they said "Ta" by way of thanks Then of course one of my customers who always left with "ta-ra a bit" Wonder where he came from <vbg> He got quite miffed when I called him a Brummie :-) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Nivard hit upon one part of everyday life which has different names across > the country - namely the humble bread roll. > > As he rightly says, in Leicestershire it is a cob, as it is in Notts and > Derbys. But go to Nuneaton just over the Warwickshire border, and they use > the word batch. Nip up to Sheffield and it's a bread cake, and over the > Pennines you ask for a barm Elsewhere it's a bap. > > I can remember as a child, when on holiday out of Nottingham, I wanted an > ice lolly and asked for a sucker. Nobody understood me, and I also got some > very funny looks. > > > > Brian Binns

Nivard hit upon one part of everyday life which has different names across the country - namely the humble bread roll. As he rightly says, in Leicestershire it is a cob, as it is in Notts and Derbys. But go to Nuneaton just over the Warwickshire border, and they use the word batch. Nip up to Sheffield and it's a bread cake, and over the Pennines you ask for a barm Elsewhere it's a bap. I can remember as a child, when on holiday out of Nottingham, I wanted an ice lolly and asked for a sucker. Nobody understood me, and I also got some very funny looks. Brian Binns _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12

Hi Brian I always thought that Leicester speak was a language all of its own but in later years I realised a lot of the expressions and saying are also used in Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire I would originally have said that Ay up me duck was Leicester through and through but have found its also "claimed" <g> by other Counties inhabitants :-) On Leicester-ese <http://www.bbc.co.uk/leicester/around_leicester/2002/11/leicester_dialect_collins_english_dictionary.shtml> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Midlands_English> <http://www.bbc.co.uk/leicester/content/articles/2005/08/27/grahams_gospel_feature.shtml> There are plenty more I suspect Notts & Derby dwellers would also recognise much of the above in their own County When I first got to Cornwall I ordered some cobs from the baker, I was a bit bemused when two dozen large round loafs turned up <g> Must go and get some snap & a brew now or t'other 'alf might get mardy <g> (and that would make me frit :-) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > I'm originally from Nottingham, and I know that there have been many > booklets written on the local Nottingham dialect. I particularly remember > one called "Ay up me duck" which just about summarise it in the title. I am > not aware of any Leicester ones though. > I now live in Loughborough which is a bit cosmopolitan, but go to Shepshed > and listen to some of the older folk and there is a distinct dialect. Enough > to make you frit! > > Brian Binns

I'm originally from Nottingham, and I know that there have been many booklets written on the local Nottingham dialect. I particularly remember one called "Ay up me duck" which just about summarise it in the title. I am not aware of any Leicester ones though. I now live in Loughborough which is a bit cosmopolitan, but go to Shepshed and listen to some of the older folk and there is a distinct dialect. Enough to make you frit! Brian Binns -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 03 February 2012 12:24 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters 3 Brian, In south-west Leicestershire in the 1940s the term "worited" was often used in speech - though I never saw it written down. As you say it meant worried. Malcolm Wardle "... Given some of the poor spelling, at least the writer wrote it as spoken, which makes me think that the word "worited" was actually the way they spoke. Was this therefore a dialect word for worried? Also, as she did in another letter, Elizabeth uses the word "betimes" to mean at the current time. Again possibly a dialect word. ..." _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12

Hi Brian Leicestershire born and bred, I have always know worrit or worriting Meaning either to worry or be worried and also to tease or pester I had always thought it was a colloquial expression so imagine my surprise when I find in the OED :- worrit, n. Etymology: < worrit v. A state of worry or mental distress; a fretting care or anxiety. Also, a person that worries others or himself. And worrit, v. Etymology: Apparently a vulgar alteration of worry v. Compare wherrit v., werrit v. a. trans. To worry, distress, vex, pester These are not recent entries So what can't speak can't lie :-) Great letters by the way They certainly give a flavour of life in the period, not least the difficulty of keeping in touch We take so much for granted these days, imagine their surprise if they knew what can be done these days, talking to people around the world as if in the next room Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > Given some of the poor spelling, at least the writer wrote it as spoken, > which makes me think that the word "worited" was actually the way they > spoke. Was this therefore a dialect word for worried? Also, as she did in > another letter, Elizabeth uses the word "betimes" to mean at the current > time. Again possibly a dialect word.

Brian, In south-west Leicestershire in the 1940s the term "worited" was often used in speech - though I never saw it written down. As you say it meant worried. Malcolm Wardle "... Given some of the poor spelling, at least the writer wrote it as spoken, which makes me think that the word "worited" was actually the way they spoke. Was this therefore a dialect word for worried? Also, as she did in another letter, Elizabeth uses the word "betimes" to mean at the current time. Again possibly a dialect word. ..." _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12

Here below is the third of the letters written by Elizabeth Eaglesfield to her son John. This again is dated only with day and month but judging by its content, it was written in 1868. John was working as a plate layer in Durham for the North Eastern Railway (not the Great Northern as I stated previously). He had obviously written to his family about his intended emigration to the USA. Further to the recent comments on this forum about literacy. Although I don't have the antecedents of Elizabeth, the letter writer, I do have them for her husband George. Although he was an agricultural labourer, and shown throughout the period of these letters to be lacking in work and quite poor, he was educated. His father Joseph was a tenant farmer in Greetham and also the Parish Clerk. George's eldest brother, Thomas, was a business man in Birmingham; sister Susannah married a farm owner, and both of these are mentioned in later letters. Another brother, William took over his father's farm tenancy in Greetham; sister Maria married the shoemaker of Market Overton, and another brother John George emigrated to America. Oddly that his emigration is not mentioned in any of these letters. He fought in the American Civil War and was the Flag Bearer of his regiment, the 89th NYVI, at the battle of Sharpsburg in 1862, and was killed still holding on to the Regimental Flag. Anyway back to this letter. Again it has been typed exactly as written, with no punctuation and no capitalisation at the start of a sentence. I should also add that Elizabeth's handwriting was very good - it's a pity that I cannot send attachments to show this - despite her sometimes bad spelling. It appears to me that the letters were written in ink rather than pencil. Sep 18 Wymondham Dear son daughter we recived your leter an was glad to hear from you but sory to hear you are going a broad we have thought it very strange you have not wrote lately I should wrote to you before now but I had lost your address I have been very ill but I ham beter then I was I have worited myself about my three sons an not one that ever wrote to us my dear son if you have nothing to send us I should like to hear from your wile I live I have never heard nothing of William one thing an another I shall not live long I would rather you had staid hear but you know your biseness best I have not seen your wife nor one of your children nor I never shall nor yet you no more may the lord be with you an protect you safe over I hope you will wright when you get landed has your wife got a sister their your father dos not think a deal about you going your brother George had no luck it is not for all to do well their no yet heare John Bursnal his on hear with the Cooks I sopose not far from were you was susan has been to Derby to see George she says he his altered he his going gray she says he was the only brother she could get at I hope you will not disappoint us of your likeness my dear son if I had berid you I should knowen the end of you but I never shall now we talked about you at the feast lizy an hir husband was hear your brother George has got a fresh place in the telergrem oface he has more to do your father sends his love to you he his afraid you will find many difecultts he his very peorley betimes an only gets a few od days work but we hope it will proves the best you have been a dutyfull son to us an may the Lord bless you all an give you long life an happyness in this world an the world to com Oddly, this letter is not signed, but added to the first page is this message: good by an bless you all my love to your wife an give the children a half a dozen kisses from me Now for the amended version with full stop and explanations, though this time I have left many wrongly spelled words, as it can be easily understood. Sep 18 Wymondham Dear son daughter we recived your leter an was glad to hear from you but sory to hear you are going a broad. we have thought it very strange you have not wrote lately. I should wrote to you before now but I had lost your address. I have been very ill but I ham beter then I was. I have worited (worried) myself about my three sons an not one that ever wrote to us. my dear son if you have nothing to send us I should like to hear from your wile I live. I have never heard nothing of William. one thing an another I shall not live long. I would rather you had staid hear but you know your biseness best. I have not seen your wife nor one of your children nor I never shall nor yet you no more. may the lord be with you an protect you safe over. I hope you will wright when you get landed. has your wife got a sister their. your father dos not think a deal about you going. your brother George had no luck it is not for all to do well their. no yet heare John Bursnal his on hear with the Cooks. (I have double checked this, and this is how it is written, but I still can't understand it. Bursnal was a surname in Wymondham and I guess that he too left to work in the Durham area as this next line suggests) I sopose not far from were you was. susan (John's sister Susannah) has been to Derby to see George (the eldest brother) she says he his altered. he his going gray. she says he was the only brother she could get at. I hope you will not disappoint us of your likeness. (John had obviously told his mother that the family was going to have their photograph taken, as the following letter shows) my dear son if I had berid you I should knowen the end of you but I never shall now. we talked about you at the feast. lizy (sister Elizabeth) an hir husband and was hear. your brother George has got a fresh place in the telergrem oface. he has more to do. your father sends his love to you. he his afraid you will find many difecults. he his very peorley betimes an only gets a few od days work but we hope it will proves the best. you have been a dutyfull son to us an may the Lord bless you all an give you long life an happyness in this world an the world to com Oddly, this letter is not signed, but added to the first page is this message: good by an bless you all my love to your wife an give the children a half a dozen kisses from me Footnotes: Despite John's mother claiming that she had never heard from William, she must have, as she sent his address to John in a previous letter. He worked in service and had since married in London. He reappears in a later letter. The above suggests that elder brother George had previously emigrated to America and came back, although I have no evidence of this. Perhaps he just applied but was refused? He married in Harby, Leics, in 1850, and had his first 2 children there, before moving to Derby, where he had at least another 8 children. He worked for the Midland Railway, latterly as a signalman, before retiring and becoming a Publican. Also, despite mother Elizabeth's worries over daughter Elizabeth (Lizy) in a previous letter, she was not at death's door and obviously survived. She married Alfred Hull (hir husband) in Leicester in 1867, where he was a brewer. The reference to "the feast" they attended, given the date of this letter was presumably a Harvest Festival - unless anyone out there knows better about festivals in Wymondham? Given some of the poor spelling, at least the writer wrote it as spoken, which makes me think that the word "worited" was actually the way they spoke. Was this therefore a dialect word for worried? Also, as she did in another letter, Elizabeth uses the word "betimes" to mean at the current time. Again possibly a dialect word. And finally, although I admire her showing her feelings honestly, I find the comment "if I had berid you I should have knowen the end of you but I never shall now" rather disconcerting. As I did her comments in a previous letter about the trouble that a sick child was. Brian Binns _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12

No one has yet mentioned the Yorkshire (specifically, Barnsley) dialect which my grandfather used even though he was born in Hugglescote and grew up there before moving to Barnsley. As an American, I find this one nearly unintelligible! (Grin!) --Carolyn -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 7:48 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LEI] Dialect On the subject of Leicester dialect There is Leicestershire words, phrases, and proverbs. Edited, with additions and an introd. (1881) Available from www.archive.org Select Texts So you can either read online or download your own copy should you not wish to employ an interpretor <g> Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Brian, You are so fortunate to have this priceless collection of letters. It adds such a personal touch and a valuable glimpse at daily life, not only for this family, but for others who lived in similar circumstances. Thanks for sharing. --Carolyn -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Binns Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 5:42 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [LEI] Victorian Letters 3 Here below is the third of the letters written by Elizabeth Eaglesfield to her son John. This again is dated only with day and month but judging by its content, it was written in 1868. John was working as a plate layer in Durham for the North Eastern Railway (not the Great Northern as I stated previously). He had obviously written to his family about his intended emigration to the USA.

Hi Carolyn All evidence I have seen and read on the subject suggests literacy was far higher than is often assumed Some information on literacy based on ability to sign marriage registers http://www.bl.uk/collections/early/victorian/pr_intro.html and http://ideas.repec.org/p/umb/econwp/03107.html (downloadable pdf) History of Education in England http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_education_in_England http://richardjohnbr.blogspot.com/2011/01/literacy-revised-version.html Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hi, Brian, > > The fact that she writes at all in 1858 is what I find fascinating--a very > intelligent and determined woman--with family and household duties occupying > most of her time, and the general lack of extensive education for women at > the time. > > My family's experience (coal miners) was quite different, particularly for > the wives and daughters. Illiteracy was the norm well into the 1880s. It > might be interesting, along with the letters to have a short discussion of > the existing educational system for farm workers' and their families in > England at the time the letters were written. Thanks for sharing. > > --Carolyn Sidebottom, Minnesota, USA