Hi Jan My wifes first job was at Lewis's in the shoe department Just round the corner from Timothy Whites where one of my brothers first worked, also close to Bree's on Churchgate where a sister worked Now I wonder if anyone can help stir my fading memory We have been trying to remember what shops were down the Gallowtree Gate on the Market side in the 1960's & 70's ? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hi Mike > > I would have been in Lewis's often when you were working there. My bus > dropped us in Humberstone Gate and I always went straight into Lewis's first > to > start a shopping afternoon, also visiting several other shops and often the > market too. Maybe your Lucy Eaglesfield was related to the people mentioned > in the letters. > > Jan

Further to the final Victorian letter which was published here yesterday in which there was a comment about a Walter Hull gaining a BA in 1896. I have reproduced below an article from The Leicester Chronicle of August 18 1888, which would make Walter Hull 16 years old. Perhaps some of the other names may be connected to someone else's family out there. "At the recent intermediate examination in arts in connection with The University of London, the following passed in the first division from The Wyggeston Schools, Leicester:- Blanche Gardiner, Jesse McLean, Lucy Lipson Ward, Christopher Baker, Arthur F. Callaghan, John Hy. Clulow, Geo Edwd. Green, Wm. Hy. Hewitt, Fredk. Wm. Keeling, and George Ernest Richmond. In the second division appear the names of Frances Mary Eastwood, Mary Ellen Selby and Walter Hull." Brian Binns _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4793 - Release Date: 02/06/12

There was a children's book called "the Fair to Middling" - probably out of print now unfortunately where the title had a deliberate double meaning Ros -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: 07 February 2012 08:30 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters - the last one Hi Jan Thats quite a common saying and have used it a lot myself OED says its colloquial & regional but not what region(s) As its topical for today A quote 1853 Dickens Bleak House xxi. 208 'How de do??' 'Middling,' replies Mr. George. Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > My grandfather, from Lincoln, who lived with us in Leicester, used to answer > when asked how he was: "Fair to middling.". Sometimes, maybe because he now > lived in the midlands, he made it: "Fair to midland.". > > Jan ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Jan Thats quite a common saying and have used it a lot myself OED says its colloquial & regional but not what region(s) As its topical for today A quote 1853 Dickens Bleak House xxi. 208 'How de do??' 'Middling,' replies Mr. George. Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > My grandfather, from Lincoln, who lived with us in Leicester, used to answer > when asked how he was: "Fair to middling.". Sometimes, maybe because he now > lived in the midlands, he made it: "Fair to midland.". > > Jan

Hi Brian The more you think about it the more you realise there are words we use that many wouldn't understand Mind you when we used to get Glaswegians in the shop, I had to interpret for the wife as she could not make out what they were on about :-) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Nivard, > > I forgot to mention the words Susannah used to describe how her health was - "this leaves me > middling". What a great word is middling. Personally I still use it today but get funny looks from > a few folk who obviously have no idea what I'm saying or what it means. > > Brian Binns

Nivard, I forgot to mention the words Susannah used to describe how her health was - "this leaves me middling". What a great word is middling. Personally I still use it today but get funny looks from a few folk who obviously have no idea what I'm saying or what it means. Brian Binns -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: 06 February 2012 19:12 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters - the last one Well bless the girl <g> She was obviously not to chuffed to have to pay the excess postage was she :-) An interesting insight into life of the period Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Dear Brother Neices and Nephews I hope that you are all quite well this leaves me but middling the > weather is very hot I am writing to inform you that poor old Brother George passed away on Whit > Monday at quarter to 5 in the evening was buried on the following Saturday but I could not go as I > had not the means to go I do not know wether sister went as I never see her I dont supose Brother > Bill would be thier as they did not intend to let him know as he never went to see him he was > offended because they could not lodge him their he wrote to Leicester to Lizzy to know if she > would she written back to say that she could not so he stayed at Derby he did go out waiting and > set dinners out when he left London he brought up a lot of pictures took them to lizzys their was > his wifes oil paintings what her lady presented her with when she started with her bill said they > was to be devided but she sticks to the lot her son walter passed his examination for B a in > November last what his year don?t kill yourself to keep yourself my best days are over I have no > one to help me I cannot do as I have done but hope that I shall be able to pull through what > little time I have to live I wish I had a relative to live with me you ought to of come & ended > your days in Old England I hope and trust that you will write once more as soon as you can no one > else as ever written to you but myself but the last time I had to write twice before I heard I do > not let work take all the time we was not sent for that but to prepare heaselfs for another world > we are here today & gone to merrea people go very sudden I was very pleased to recieve your photos > it gives us an idea what you look like you seem to age a lot you are very much like poor George > was when I received your photos they charged me 1s 1d because you sent the letter in the photos I > must conclude with kindest love to you all your ever affectionate sister S Eaglesfield ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4792 - Release Date: 02/06/12 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4792 - Release Date: 02/06/12 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4792 - Release Date: 02/06/12

Well bless the girl <g> She was obviously not to chuffed to have to pay the excess postage was she :-) An interesting insight into life of the period Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Dear Brother Neices and Nephews I hope that you are all quite well this leaves me but middling the > weather is very hot I am writing to inform you that poor old Brother George passed away on Whit > Monday at quarter to 5 in the evening was buried on the following Saturday but I could not go as I > had not the means to go I do not know wether sister went as I never see her I dont supose Brother > Bill would be thier as they did not intend to let him know as he never went to see him he was > offended because they could not lodge him their he wrote to Leicester to Lizzy to know if she > would she written back to say that she could not so he stayed at Derby he did go out waiting and > set dinners out when he left London he brought up a lot of pictures took them to lizzys their was > his wifes oil paintings what her lady presented her with when she started with her bill said they > was to be devided but she sticks to the lot her son walter passed his examination for B a in > November last what his year don’t kill yourself to keep yourself my best days are over I have no > one to help me I cannot do as I have done but hope that I shall be able to pull through what > little time I have to live I wish I had a relative to live with me you ought to of come & ended > your days in Old England I hope and trust that you will write once more as soon as you can no one > else as ever written to you but myself but the last time I had to write twice before I heard I do > not let work take all the time we was not sent for that but to prepare heaselfs for another world > we are here today & gone to merrea people go very sudden I was very pleased to recieve your photos > it gives us an idea what you look like you seem to age a lot you are very much like poor George > was when I received your photos they charged me 1s 1d because you sent the letter in the photos I > must conclude with kindest love to you all your ever affectionate sister S Eaglesfield

This is the last of these letters which were sent to me as I am fixated on research into the Eaglesfield families descended from Thomas Eaglesfield, who was a steeplepointer in Somerby, Leics in the mid 16th Century. These were sent to John Eaglesfield, initially in County Durham England , but now emigrated to the USA. All the other letters were written by his mother, but she died in 1871 and there are no other extant letters up to this one written in 1896. It is from his second youngest sister Susannah, usually referred to as Susan, who herself had left the family home early. At the age of 15, on the 1851 census, she was working and living in at a Grocers shop in Wymondham, but by the 1861 census was a servant to John Dunmore, and his sister Mary Ann. He was a fancy hosiery manufacturer in Eldon Street, Leicester. She was still there on the 1871 census, but by the 1881 census she was a servant to William Payne, a fishmonger and poulterer of 2 Richmond Street, Leicester. I cannot trace Susannah on the 1891 census, but by the time this letter had been written she had obviously taken a new position and address. Again this is typed as written. Like her mother there is no punctuation, nor capitalisation at the start of sentences, and she mixes up her their and there. Also, but not every time, she obviously didn’t know the rhyme – “i before e, except after c” Leicester 45 Oxenden Street June 14 1896 Dear Brother Neices and Nephews I hope that you are all quite well this leaves me but middling the weather is very hot I am writing to inform you that poor old Brother George passed away on Whit Monday at quarter to 5 in the evening was buried on the following Saturday but I could not go as I had not the means to go I do not know wether sister went as I never see her I dont supose Brother Bill would be thier as they did not intend to let him know as he never went to see him he was offended because they could not lodge him their he wrote to Leicester to Lizzy to know if she would she written back to say that she could not so he stayed at Derby he did go out waiting and set dinners out when he left London he brought up a lot of pictures took them to lizzys their was his wifes oil paintings what her lady presented her with when she started with her bill said they was to be devided but she sticks to the lot her son walter passed his examination for B a in November last what his year don’t kill yourself to keep yourself my best days are over I have no one to help me I cannot do as I have done but hope that I shall be able to pull through what little time I have to live I wish I had a relative to live with me you ought to of come & ended your days in Old England I hope and trust that you will write once more as soon as you can no one else as ever written to you but myself but the last time I had to write twice before I heard I do not let work take all the time we was not sent for that but to prepare heaselfs for another world we are here today & gone to merrea people go very sudden I was very pleased to recieve your photos it gives us an idea what you look like you seem to age a lot you are very much like poor George was when I received your photos they charged me 1s 1d because you sent the letter in the photos I must conclude with kindest love to you all your ever affectionate sister S Eaglesfield And now with punctuation. Leicester 45 Oxenden Street June 14 1896 Dear Brother Neices (nieces) and Nephews hope that you are all quite well. this leaves me but middling. the weather is very hot. I am writing to inform you that poor old Brother George¹ passed away on Whit Monday at quarter to 5 in the evening. was buried on the following Saturday but I could not go as I had not the means to go. I do not know wether sister² went as I never see her. I dont supose Brother Bill would be thier (there) as they did not intend to let him know as he never went to see him. he was offended because they could not lodge him their.³ he wrote to Leicester to Lizzy to know if she would.⁴ she written back to say that she could not so he stayed at Derby. he did go out waiting and set dinners out when he left London. he brought up a lot of pictures took them to lizzys. their was his wifes oil paintings what her lady presented her with when she started with her. bill said they was to be devided but she sticks to the lot. her son walter⁵ passed his examination for B a (Bachelor of Arts?) in November last. what his year. (I don’t understand these 3 words, but it is as written) don’t kill yourself to keep yourself. my best days are over. I have no one to help me. I cannot do as I have done but hope that I shall be able to pull through what little time I have to live. I wish I had a relative to live with me. you ought to of come (have come) & ended your days in Old England. I hope and trust that you will write once more as soon as you can. no one else as ever written to you but myself but the last time I had to write twice before I heard. I do not let work take all the time. we was not sent for that but to prepare heaselfs (ourselves) for another world. we are here today & gone to merrea (tomorrow). people go very sudden. I was very pleased to recieve your photos it gives us an idea what you look like. you seem to age a lot. you are very much like poor George was. when I received your photos they charged me 1s 1d because you sent the letter in the photos. I must conclude with kindest love to you all, your ever affectionate sister S Eaglesfield Footnotes: 1: Brother George lived in Derby, and by this time had retired from the Midland Railway and was a publican at the British Oak, Carrington Street, Derby. He was 68 when he died. 2: The sister referred to by Susannah was the youngest surviving daughter, Elizabeth who had married Alfred Hull in 1861. They lived in Leicester, and although they and Susannah had moved a house a few times, they were only a few miles away from each other, yet she never saw them. Elizabeth was widowed in 1892 but she didn’t die until 1931, at the ripe old age of 97. 3 & 4: Brother Bill was William, who had been living in London as a servant. His wife had died in 1877 but he stayed in London as he appears on the1881 census there. He then obviously tried to move back to Derby, by asking if he could lodge at George’s. He then tried sister Lizzy in Leicester, but she too declined him – even though she kept all of William’s wife’s oil paintings! William is then to be found on the 1891, and 1901 censuses at two addresses in Ford Street as a boarder and working as a waiter or butler. He was still in Derby on the 1911 census, and working as a caretaker although by then aged 77. He died a year later. 5: Alfred and Elizabeth Hull had 2 sons; Arthur born 1868, and Walter born 1871. On the 1891 census, Arthur was a teacher, and Walter was a clicker in a shoe factory. Walter must have been stimulated by his brother to take on a University course later in life. Perhaps his mother sold all those oil paintings to pay for it!! He, like his brother, then became a teacher. One of Walter’s children was named John Eaglesfield Hull. I feel really sorry for Susannah, all alone, yet in truth for the best part of 30 years only a few miles from her younger sister. She seems to have inherited certain traits from her Mother – an attitude to living by taking what is thrown at you with a deep religious conviction. Despite her saying in this letter that she hadn’t got long to live, she was still working as a housekeeper on the 1901 census, for Elizabeth Drake , Montague Street, Knighton. She died in late 1904 aged 68. She also inheriting her mother’s pleading for John to forget about America, but he never did. He worked as a farmer all his life there in Sandy Point, Pennsylvania. Whether as a worker or an owner I do not know. He died in the 1920s. I cannot be specific about exactly when, as the sender of these letters had not found out, and also I do not subscribe to the world version of Ancestry to find out myself, but this would still put him aged in his late 80s early 90s. Just shows what fresh air can do for you! Brian Binns Loughborough _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4791 - Release Date: 02/05/12

Brian, I have the USA Ancestry records. I quickly looked and I think I found John's immigration in April 1869 from Liverpool to New York. Would that be the correct year? If this is right, I have additional information. I may also have found him in the US 1920 Census as an 87 year old living with a son-in law John C. Seauard and some other people. Sound familiar? If so, I will send details. --Carolyn, in Minnesota, USA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Binns Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 12:29 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [LEI] Victorian Letters - the last one This is the last of these letters which were sent to me as I am fixated on research into the Eaglesfield families descended from Thomas Eaglesfield, who was a steeplepointer in Somerby, Leics in the mid 16th Century.

Hi list, further records under Derby Board of Gaurdians added to Yesterdays site, link below, with references to Leics connections. If link fails Google Yesterdays Journey. mike -- http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~spire/Yesterday/index.htm

Mike, Not that I've found yet! Peter Holmes Western Australia. Skype ; p.g.holmes [HOLMES (Witham on the Hill, Manthorpe, Spalding, Pinchbeck, Donington then Leicestershire)]. [DAVISON (Spalding, Donington, Ingoldmells, Skegness)]. [CRAGG (Lincolnshire, Leicestershire & Nottinghamshire)] [FREER (Leicestershire)]. [RYLOTT & WITHERINGTON (Anwick, N & S Kyme, N & S Rauceby, Surfleet, Gosberton Clough etc., Spalding)] [RYLOTT (Ontario Canada & some in New York & Florida USA)] Villages are in Lincolnshire unless stated. PLUS 4 DUTCH surname lines - from Rotterdam area (in Dutch). -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Gould Sent: Sunday, 5 February 2012 5:50 PM To: 'Doreen Welch'; [email protected] Subject: [LEI] FREER in Leics (was Ratcliffe College circa 1929-30) Hi Doreen & Peter, I have an Eliza FREER, born Fleckney 1824, dau of John & Hannah. She married Jesse QUAIL in Loughborough, 1842. She died in Nottingham in 1873. Any connections ? Best wishes, Mike Gould

Thank you so much for sharing these letters Brian - they have been fascinating. So far as the phrase "if you do go I hope we shall be decived" is concerned, I think she means that she hopes their fears for their son will be proved groundless/wrong. (That they have been deceived into fearing for his safety) Regards Thelma ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Binns" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:07 PM Subject: [LEI] Victorian Letters 5 > This is the last of these letters written By Elizabeth Eaglesfield from > Wymondham, Leicestershire to her son who was working away in County > Durham. These letters were saved by John, and copies were sent to me from > a descendant of his from New York State. I should point out that there is > a distinct gap with no letters between 1858 and 1868, and I presume that > these must have been lost over time – I can’t imagine that there was no > correspondence between mother and son for 10 years. > > John had been working in County Durham from the late 1850s and had married > in 1861 to Mary Ann Allan, nee Porter, a young widow. They had by this > time had 3 children; Mary Ann born 1862 – presumably name after her > mother; Elizabeth born 1864 – named after John’s mother; and Isabella born > 1867 – perhaps after her maternal grandmother, though I can’t trace her. > > This letter was written in 1869 and follows on from the one written in > September 1868 where John had obviously informed his mother and father > that he and his family were planning to emigrate to the USA. He must also > have told them that he was intending to have a studio photograph taken of > his family to send to his mother. She commented in the previous letter > when saying that the elder brother George had turned grey, “I hope you > will not disappoint us with your likeness.” > > > > Again the letter is reproduced as written. > > > > Jan 26 (1869) > > > > Wymondham > > > > My dear son daughter we recived your leter an portrets an sory to hear you > had such illness in your house I hope you are all beter it leaves me beter > than I have been your father his very stricken betimes with his water dear > son we was in hopes you had haltied your minds and staid in your owen > contry your father thinks their would be a liveing to be had he says he > thinks you do not know what you are going to throw your self into but if > you are bent of going it will be know use to say anything but we both > would rather you did not go if you do go I hope we shall be decived an we > hope an traust you will get safe over so I must leave it with you to jug > for your selves we never see nor hear nothing of the Rudkins your father > says the letter from amraca did not go to stainby your aunt his living but > your uncle tom Eaglesfield died on chrismes eve at Birmegim William > Beecraft his Maria an lives in one of the Mill Houses your aunt parker his > had 2 strokes an has not spoke since the last you brother George an his > wife came to see us in October dear son we have not heard anything of your > brother William it has worit me George Rudkin has so much a weack to live > on from the trustees or elc he would braught his Mother to the uinen well > I must draw to a conlsuan another word about you going before I would com > home your wife looks ill I must conclude with love to you both an children > from your affactnate Mother E Eaglesfield > > susans address just the same as before > > Nom Miss Dunsmore > > 6 Eldon Street > > Leicester > > > > Across the top of the first page of this letter is written > > We had at first direct James Street we now direct what I have sent you > > > > > > Now with (most) corrections and full stops > > > > Jan 26 (1869) > > > > Wymondham > > > > My dear son daughter we recived (received) your leter an portrets > (portraits) an sory to hear you had such illness in your house. I hope you > are all beter. it leaves me beter than I have been. your father his very > stricken betimes with his water. dear son we was in hopes you had haltied > (altered) your minds and staid in your owen contry (own country) your > father thinks their would be a liveing to be had. he says he thinks you do > not know what you are going to throw your self into, but if you are bent > of going it will be know (no) use to say anything but we both would rather > you did not go. if you do go I hope we shall be decived ( deceived? but > still can’t make sense of this line) an we hope an traust (trust) you will > get safe over, so I must leave it with you to jug (judge) for your selves. > we never see nor hear nothing of the Rudkins.¹ your father says the letter > from amraca (America) did not go to stainby.² your aunt his living³ but > your uncle tom Eaglesfield died on chrismes eve at Birmegim (Christmas Eve > at Birmingham)⁴ William Beecraft his Maria an lives in one of the Mill > Houses.⁵ your aunt parker his had 2 strokes an has not spoke since the > last.⁶ your brother George an his wife came to see us in October.⁷ dear > son we have not heard anything of your brother William.⁸ it has worit > (again that dialect word for worried) me. George Rudkin has so much a > weack to live on from the trustees or elc (else)he would braught (brought) > his Mother to the uinen. (Union).⁹ well I must draw to a conlsuan > (conclusion). another word about you going. before I would com home, your > wife looks ill. I must conclude with love to you both an children from > your affactnate Mother E Eaglesfield > > susans address just the same as before > > Nom Miss Dunsmore > > 6 Eldon Street > > Leicester > > > > Across the top of the first page of this letter is written > > We had at first direct James Street we now direct what I have sent you > > > > Footnotes: > > 1, 2 & 9: “The Rudkins” refers to the family of George Eaglesfield’s > sister Susannah who had married John Rudkin, a farmer in Stainby, which > was just over the border in Lincolnshire. John had died in 1861 and at the > time of this letter, the farm was being run by Susannah and son George. > This was 153 acres and employed 2 labourers, so shows that other members > of this Eaglesfield branch were not as poor as George and Elizabeth in > Wymondham. I do not know what the reference to “a letter from maraca > (America)” means, unless it was a request for a reference for John prior > to his emigration. I also do not understand why George Rudkin was talking > about “the union” with respect to his mother. They appeared to be quite > well off. > > 3 & 4: Uncle Tom who died on Christmas Eve refers to George Eaglesfield’s > eldest brother, Thomas, who at the time of his death was a Coal and Lime > Agent in Birmingham, again showing the differences in fortune/wealth in > this family. “Your Aunt is living” I think refers to his second wife, who > herself died later in 1869. > > 5: Another of George Eaglesfield’s sister, Maria, had married William > Beecroft (spelled presumably as spoken as “Beecraft”) who was a shoemaker > and cottager of 7 acres, in Market Overton, just over the border in > Rutland. > > 6: I have no idea who “Aunt Parker” is. This is only a side branch of my > tree, so there is a limit for my research. > > 7: Brother George, the eldest sibling, was a Railway Signalman in Derby. > > 8: William was the youngest brother still living and had left Wymondham to > work in Harby, Leics. (census 1851) where elder brother George was also > living, having married there. Co-incidentally he was working for the > Vicar, as was John at the same time, but in Little Dalby. William then > moved to London via Berkshire (see a previous letter) where he worked as a > servant/butler. He also married in London > > “Susans Address” refers to sister Susannah who was working as a servant to > John Dunmore, (a “manufacturer of fancy hosiery” in Eldon Street, > Leicester) and his spinster sister Mary Ann. > > > > I find this letter quite heartfelt as Elizabeth keeps breaking off from > family news to plead with her son to stay in England. It’s saddening to > see that she starts every separate entreaty with the words “dear son”. I > would also guess that the reason she thinks that John’s wife “looks ill” > is probably due to the way photos were taken in those days. With the long > exposure needed, many people in these Studio shots certainly did > unintentionally look unhappy and ill, having to hold a set pose for quite > a long time. > > > > However, John did emigrate, in April of this year, 1869. He settled in > Pennsylvania as a famer, and had two more children there; Susannah in > 1870 – named after his sister; and George in 1874, named after his father. > His mother died in 1870 about a year after John emigrated, and his father > died in September 1873. They are both buried in Wymondham churchyard, but > on the one time I “walked” the churchyard I couldn’t find them. > > > > There is just one more letter extant, written by sister Susannah (Susan) > to John in 1896 bringing him up to date with family matters, and I will > publish this on Monday. > > > > Brian Binns > > Loughborough > > _____ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4789 - Release Date: 02/04/12 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Funny ! That was. Gill. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Peter HOLMES Sent: Saturday, 4 February 2012 3:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters 3 Yes - especially when Gill & Norm walk into the same pub in Queniborough that my wife and I were in & just sitting down to dinner in August 2010. My company provided auctioneering services to their building materials manufacturing business here in Western Australia! The world is getting smaller and smaller! Peter Holmes Western Australia. Skype ; p.g.holmes [HOLMES (Witham on the Hill, Manthorpe, Spalding, Pinchbeck, Donington then Leicestershire)]. [DAVISON (Spalding, Donington, Ingoldmells, Skegness)]. [CRAGG (Lincolnshire, Leicestershire & Nottinghamshire)] [FREER (Leicestershire)]. [RYLOTT & WITHERINGTON (Anwick, N & S Kyme, N & S Rauceby, Surfleet, Gosberton Clough etc., Spalding)] [RYLOTT (Ontario Canada & some in New York & Florida USA)] Villages are in Lincolnshire unless stated. PLUS 4 DUTCH surname lines - from Rotterdam area (in Dutch). -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John & Jan Marchant Sent: Saturday, 4 February 2012 12:37 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters 3 Absolutely! We've been here in Oz for nearly 47 years but that sort of talk never leaves our memories! Jan Marchant ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gill Goddard" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters 3 > Hi Brian, "Ay up me duck" and frit are very Leicester. We've been in > Australia 31 years and my Husband still talks like this. Gill. > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Very interesting ,thank you Brian. In 1960/1961 I started work at Lewis's department sore in Humberston Gate Leicester. One of my first departments to work n was the book and magazine section which was in the basement. I worked for a lady called Miss Lucy Eaglesfield who would have been about sixty years old at the time, I do not know what became of her but your story brought back some memories. Mike

This is the last of these letters written By Elizabeth Eaglesfield from Wymondham, Leicestershire to her son who was working away in County Durham. These letters were saved by John, and copies were sent to me from a descendant of his from New York State. I should point out that there is a distinct gap with no letters between 1858 and 1868, and I presume that these must have been lost over time – I can’t imagine that there was no correspondence between mother and son for 10 years. John had been working in County Durham from the late 1850s and had married in 1861 to Mary Ann Allan, nee Porter, a young widow. They had by this time had 3 children; Mary Ann born 1862 – presumably name after her mother; Elizabeth born 1864 – named after John’s mother; and Isabella born 1867 – perhaps after her maternal grandmother, though I can’t trace her. This letter was written in 1869 and follows on from the one written in September 1868 where John had obviously informed his mother and father that he and his family were planning to emigrate to the USA. He must also have told them that he was intending to have a studio photograph taken of his family to send to his mother. She commented in the previous letter when saying that the elder brother George had turned grey, “I hope you will not disappoint us with your likeness.” Again the letter is reproduced as written. Jan 26 (1869) Wymondham My dear son daughter we recived your leter an portrets an sory to hear you had such illness in your house I hope you are all beter it leaves me beter than I have been your father his very stricken betimes with his water dear son we was in hopes you had haltied your minds and staid in your owen contry your father thinks their would be a liveing to be had he says he thinks you do not know what you are going to throw your self into but if you are bent of going it will be know use to say anything but we both would rather you did not go if you do go I hope we shall be decived an we hope an traust you will get safe over so I must leave it with you to jug for your selves we never see nor hear nothing of the Rudkins your father says the letter from amraca did not go to stainby your aunt his living but your uncle tom Eaglesfield died on chrismes eve at Birmegim William Beecraft his Maria an lives in one of the Mill Houses your aunt parker his had 2 strokes an has not spoke since the last you brother George an his wife came to see us in October dear son we have not heard anything of your brother William it has worit me George Rudkin has so much a weack to live on from the trustees or elc he would braught his Mother to the uinen well I must draw to a conlsuan another word about you going before I would com home your wife looks ill I must conclude with love to you both an children from your affactnate Mother E Eaglesfield susans address just the same as before Nom Miss Dunsmore 6 Eldon Street Leicester Across the top of the first page of this letter is written We had at first direct James Street we now direct what I have sent you Now with (most) corrections and full stops Jan 26 (1869) Wymondham My dear son daughter we recived (received) your leter an portrets (portraits) an sory to hear you had such illness in your house. I hope you are all beter. it leaves me beter than I have been. your father his very stricken betimes with his water. dear son we was in hopes you had haltied (altered) your minds and staid in your owen contry (own country) your father thinks their would be a liveing to be had. he says he thinks you do not know what you are going to throw your self into, but if you are bent of going it will be know (no) use to say anything but we both would rather you did not go. if you do go I hope we shall be decived ( deceived? but still can’t make sense of this line) an we hope an traust (trust) you will get safe over, so I must leave it with you to jug (judge) for your selves. we never see nor hear nothing of the Rudkins.¹ your father says the letter from amraca (America) did not go to stainby.² your aunt his living³ but your uncle tom Eaglesfield died on chrismes eve at Birmegim (Christmas Eve at Birmingham)⁴ William Beecraft his Maria an lives in one of the Mill Houses.⁵ your aunt parker his had 2 strokes an has not spoke since the last.⁶ your brother George an his wife came to see us in October.⁷ dear son we have not heard anything of your brother William.⁸ it has worit (again that dialect word for worried) me. George Rudkin has so much a weack to live on from the trustees or elc (else)he would braught (brought) his Mother to the uinen. (Union).⁹ well I must draw to a conlsuan (conclusion). another word about you going. before I would com home, your wife looks ill. I must conclude with love to you both an children from your affactnate Mother E Eaglesfield susans address just the same as before Nom Miss Dunsmore 6 Eldon Street Leicester Across the top of the first page of this letter is written We had at first direct James Street we now direct what I have sent you Footnotes: 1, 2 & 9: “The Rudkins” refers to the family of George Eaglesfield’s sister Susannah who had married John Rudkin, a farmer in Stainby, which was just over the border in Lincolnshire. John had died in 1861 and at the time of this letter, the farm was being run by Susannah and son George. This was 153 acres and employed 2 labourers, so shows that other members of this Eaglesfield branch were not as poor as George and Elizabeth in Wymondham. I do not know what the reference to “a letter from maraca (America)” means, unless it was a request for a reference for John prior to his emigration. I also do not understand why George Rudkin was talking about “the union” with respect to his mother. They appeared to be quite well off. 3 & 4: Uncle Tom who died on Christmas Eve refers to George Eaglesfield’s eldest brother, Thomas, who at the time of his death was a Coal and Lime Agent in Birmingham, again showing the differences in fortune/wealth in this family. “Your Aunt is living” I think refers to his second wife, who herself died later in 1869. 5: Another of George Eaglesfield’s sister, Maria, had married William Beecroft (spelled presumably as spoken as “Beecraft”) who was a shoemaker and cottager of 7 acres, in Market Overton, just over the border in Rutland. 6: I have no idea who “Aunt Parker” is. This is only a side branch of my tree, so there is a limit for my research. 7: Brother George, the eldest sibling, was a Railway Signalman in Derby. 8: William was the youngest brother still living and had left Wymondham to work in Harby, Leics. (census 1851) where elder brother George was also living, having married there. Co-incidentally he was working for the Vicar, as was John at the same time, but in Little Dalby. William then moved to London via Berkshire (see a previous letter) where he worked as a servant/butler. He also married in London “Susans Address” refers to sister Susannah who was working as a servant to John Dunmore, (a “manufacturer of fancy hosiery” in Eldon Street, Leicester) and his spinster sister Mary Ann. I find this letter quite heartfelt as Elizabeth keeps breaking off from family news to plead with her son to stay in England. It’s saddening to see that she starts every separate entreaty with the words “dear son”. I would also guess that the reason she thinks that John’s wife “looks ill” is probably due to the way photos were taken in those days. With the long exposure needed, many people in these Studio shots certainly did unintentionally look unhappy and ill, having to hold a set pose for quite a long time. However, John did emigrate, in April of this year, 1869. He settled in Pennsylvania as a famer, and had two more children there; Susannah in 1870 – named after his sister; and George in 1874, named after his father. His mother died in 1870 about a year after John emigrated, and his father died in September 1873. They are both buried in Wymondham churchyard, but on the one time I “walked” the churchyard I couldn’t find them. There is just one more letter extant, written by sister Susannah (Susan) to John in 1896 bringing him up to date with family matters, and I will publish this on Monday. Brian Binns Loughborough _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4789 - Release Date: 02/04/12

Hi Doreen & Peter, I have an Eliza FREER, born Fleckney 1824, dau of John & Hannah. She married Jesse QUAIL in Loughborough, 1842. She died in Nottingham in 1873. Any connections ? Best wishes, Mike Gould -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Doreen Welch Sent: 04 February 2012 21:49 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LEI] Ratcliffe College circa 1929-30 Peter, I do have lots/some FREER on my tree and when I return to the UK I will send them to you. Regards  Doreen  (currently at Niagara Falls) ________________________________ From: Peter HOLMES <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 2:58 AM Subject: Re: [LEI] Ratcliffe College circa 1929-30 Ah, Good old Ratcliffe College. I attended Longslade Upper school in the late 60's and also played 1st XV and used to enjoy the matches we had against them. We usually won which used to annoy the college boys because Longslade was an early 1960's state school! (Perhaps they thought they looked down on us - just like the huge 2nd rower that towered over me but by better technique (without the lifting/supporting that is allowed now) I won every lineout against him - even on the college throws!! Basking now in days of glory long gone! Peter Holmes Western Australia.      Skype ; p.g.holmes [HOLMES (Witham on the Hill, Manthorpe, Spalding, Pinchbeck, Donington then Leicestershire)]. [DAVISON (Spalding, Donington, Ingoldmells, Skegness)]. [CRAGG (Lincolnshire, Leicestershire & Nottinghamshire)] [FREER (Leicestershire)]. [RYLOTT & WITHERINGTON (Anwick, N & S Kyme, N & S Rauceby, Surfleet, Gosberton Clough etc., Spalding)] [RYLOTT (Ontario Canada & some in New York & Florida USA)] Villages are in Lincolnshire unless stated. PLUS 4 DUTCH surname lines - from Rotterdam area (in Dutch). -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: Friday, 6 January 2012 7:12 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [LEI] Ratcliffe College circa 1929-30 Dear all I have two photos and was not sure if anyone had a connection to those in them They all attended Ratcliffe College in 1929-30 Class or Group Photo First XV (Rugby) Ratcliffe College 1929-30 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ah, Good old Ratcliffe College. I attended Longslade Upper school in the late 60's and also played 1st XV and used to enjoy the matches we had against them. We usually won which used to annoy the college boys because Longslade was an early 1960's state school! (Perhaps they thought they looked down on us - just like the huge 2nd rower that towered over me but by better technique (without the lifting/supporting that is allowed now) I won every lineout against him - even on the college throws!! Basking now in days of glory long gone! Peter Holmes Western Australia. Skype ; p.g.holmes [HOLMES (Witham on the Hill, Manthorpe, Spalding, Pinchbeck, Donington then Leicestershire)]. [DAVISON (Spalding, Donington, Ingoldmells, Skegness)]. [CRAGG (Lincolnshire, Leicestershire & Nottinghamshire)] [FREER (Leicestershire)]. [RYLOTT & WITHERINGTON (Anwick, N & S Kyme, N & S Rauceby, Surfleet, Gosberton Clough etc., Spalding)] [RYLOTT (Ontario Canada & some in New York & Florida USA)] Villages are in Lincolnshire unless stated. PLUS 4 DUTCH surname lines - from Rotterdam area (in Dutch). -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: Friday, 6 January 2012 7:12 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [LEI] Ratcliffe College circa 1929-30 Dear all I have two photos and was not sure if anyone had a connection to those in them They all attended Ratcliffe College in 1929-30 Class or Group Photo First XV (Rugby) Ratcliffe College 1929-30

Yes - especially when Gill & Norm walk into the same pub in Queniborough that my wife and I were in & just sitting down to dinner in August 2010. My company provided auctioneering services to their building materials manufacturing business here in Western Australia! The world is getting smaller and smaller! Peter Holmes Western Australia. Skype ; p.g.holmes [HOLMES (Witham on the Hill, Manthorpe, Spalding, Pinchbeck, Donington then Leicestershire)]. [DAVISON (Spalding, Donington, Ingoldmells, Skegness)]. [CRAGG (Lincolnshire, Leicestershire & Nottinghamshire)] [FREER (Leicestershire)]. [RYLOTT & WITHERINGTON (Anwick, N & S Kyme, N & S Rauceby, Surfleet, Gosberton Clough etc., Spalding)] [RYLOTT (Ontario Canada & some in New York & Florida USA)] Villages are in Lincolnshire unless stated. PLUS 4 DUTCH surname lines - from Rotterdam area (in Dutch). -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John & Jan Marchant Sent: Saturday, 4 February 2012 12:37 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters 3 Absolutely! We've been here in Oz for nearly 47 years but that sort of talk never leaves our memories! Jan Marchant ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gill Goddard" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters 3 > Hi Brian, "Ay up me duck" and frit are very Leicester. We've been in > Australia 31 years and my Husband still talks like this. Gill. >

Absolutely! We've been here in Oz for nearly 47 years but that sort of talk never leaves our memories! Jan Marchant ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gill Goddard" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters 3 > Hi Brian, "Ay up me duck" and frit are very Leicester. We've been in > Australia 31 years and my Husband still talks like this. Gill. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Binns > Sent: Friday, 3 February 2012 8:31 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters 3 > > I'm originally from Nottingham, and I know that there have been many > booklets written on the local Nottingham dialect. I particularly remember > one called "Ay up me duck" which just about summarise it in the title. I > am > not aware of any Leicester ones though. > I now live in Loughborough which is a bit cosmopolitan, but go to Shepshed > and listen to some of the older folk and there is a distinct dialect. > Enough > to make you frit! > > Brian Binns > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: 03 February 2012 12:24 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters 3 > > Brian, > > In south-west Leicestershire in the 1940s the term "worited" was often > used > in speech - though I never saw it written down. > > As you say it meant worried. > > Malcolm Wardle > > > "... > Given some of the poor spelling, at least the writer wrote it as spoken, > which makes me think that the word "worited" was actually the way they > spoke. Was this therefore a dialect word for worried? Also, as she did in > another letter, Elizabeth uses the word "betimes" to mean at the current > time. Again possibly a dialect word. > ..." > > > > > > > > _____ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12 > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12 > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4782 - Release Date: 02/02/12 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4786 - Release Date: 02/03/12 >

Peter, I do have lots/some FREER on my tree and when I return to the UK I will send them to you. Regards  Doreen  (currently at Niagara Falls) ________________________________ From: Peter HOLMES <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 2:58 AM Subject: Re: [LEI] Ratcliffe College circa 1929-30 Ah, Good old Ratcliffe College. I attended Longslade Upper school in the late 60's and also played 1st XV and used to enjoy the matches we had against them. We usually won which used to annoy the college boys because Longslade was an early 1960's state school! (Perhaps they thought they looked down on us - just like the huge 2nd rower that towered over me but by better technique (without the lifting/supporting that is allowed now) I won every lineout against him - even on the college throws!! Basking now in days of glory long gone! Peter Holmes Western Australia.      Skype ; p.g.holmes [HOLMES (Witham on the Hill, Manthorpe, Spalding, Pinchbeck, Donington then Leicestershire)]. [DAVISON (Spalding, Donington, Ingoldmells, Skegness)]. [CRAGG (Lincolnshire, Leicestershire & Nottinghamshire)] [FREER (Leicestershire)]. [RYLOTT & WITHERINGTON (Anwick, N & S Kyme, N & S Rauceby, Surfleet, Gosberton Clough etc., Spalding)] [RYLOTT (Ontario Canada & some in New York & Florida USA)] Villages are in Lincolnshire unless stated. PLUS 4 DUTCH surname lines - from Rotterdam area (in Dutch). -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: Friday, 6 January 2012 7:12 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [LEI] Ratcliffe College circa 1929-30 Dear all I have two photos and was not sure if anyone had a connection to those in them They all attended Ratcliffe College in 1929-30 Class or Group Photo First XV (Rugby) Ratcliffe College 1929-30 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message