OOOPS!!!! Never was good at mental arithmetic and it was a long long time ago and I am old enough to remember dividing £ s d, not that I could ever do it. I think all the fuss that we 3 children used to kick up in the back of the car was about having the money immediately and not waiting until our beleaguered mum and dad could find the right change for each one of us. > They each got £1-13-4. Quite straightforward.

Brian, I checked into Madeline's new information and found a site that MAY have John Eaglesfield's death record in a downloadable image. Unfortunately, to view the records on this site, you have to join their subscription list for their Newsletter. Read this site information carefully. I think it says that you can join for a seven day free trial membership. After seven days they will automatically charge your account about $40.00 for a subscription to their newsletter. (I think this is pretty expensive as memberships go.) However, if you cancel your trial subscription within the seven day free trial period, you will not be charged. Seems like time enough to check out the one death record for John that I found on that site. I think you will have to copy and paste the site's location which follows. I don't think the link will work: http://www.archives.com/GA.aspx?_act=registerDR&firstName=John&lastName=Eagl esfield&location=PA&recordType=2&HardCopyCert=1 NOW, HERE IS THE REALLY EXCITING NEWS! I remembered a friend of mine is actively involved in recording cemetery site all over the US for an organization called Find-A-Grave. I logged on to Find-A-Grave and did a search for John Eaglesfield. Not only did I find John's death year = 1922, I found three photographs of the actual grave, cemetery, and a GPS Map locating the cemetery. You definitely need to log on to this site! If the following link doesn't work with copy and paste, go to http://www.findagrave.com and do your own search. This was really exciting to find!--others of his family might be nearby--search for them, too! http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Eaglesfield&GSfn=John& GSbyrel=all&GSdy=1920&GSdyrel=after&GSst=40&GScntry=4&GSob=d&GRid=29213398&d f=all& -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Charles Sidebottom Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 3:06 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters - the last one I will check into that. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Madeline V. Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 12:27 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters - the last one Hello Carolyn,   I received a monthly update for Ancestry this morning (Wednesday) in which is offered a new site for PA Church and Town BMD  records. Perhaps the Eaglesfield family that you have been helping with are included in that ?      I have not yet subscribed to Ancestry so have not tried to  check.   Hope this is of some help.   Madeline in California --- On Wed, 2/8/12, Charles Sidebottom <[email protected]> wrote: From: Charles Sidebottom <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters - the last one To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, February 8, 2012, 7:59 AM Hi Brian, I have looked for John Eaglesfield's death date in Pennsylvania. Unfortunately, Pennsylvania is apparently one of the states who guards their privacy jealously.  There are not many sites that offer vital records, and none of them offer an index (like England's) or the opportunity for non-relatives or non-direct line relatives to see records or order death certificates even if they qualify without a stiff fee.  So, I have to report failure to find John's death date.  However at age 87 on the 1920 census, I think you could safely assume that he died between 1920 and 1930, as you have done.  Keep checking, Perhaps later, Pennsylvania will release more information from this time period.  In the US, it is not the Federal government that has control over the vital records other than requiring states to have a system for keeping records of births, marriages, divorces, and deaths.  Each state is responsible for making their own policies and procedures regarding keeping the records. Some states are very open with their records like Missouri who has posted images of the documents online for free viewing.  Others, like Pennsylvania require persons to make application to even find out if they qualify to be "let in on the secret!" If they do, the fees for finding out could be quite expensive.   After Social Security was enacted by the Federal Government sometime in the 1930's it was easier for people to find out at least the death dates from the Social Security Death Index (SSDI)that is online at Ancestry.com. Unfortunately, John Eaglesfield narrowly missed out on this! I think you indicated that you had most of the information from the Immigration and the Censuses starting in 1869-70.  I found John on all of the Censuses between 1870 and 1920 except for 1890 and 1910.  Naturally, the 1890 census that would have told us the most about the lives of families prior to the turn of the century was totally destroyed by fire in 1921. Only a couple of district records remain because they were being used in another building at the time.  This was a critical time in many immigrant's lives and the loss of the 1890 Census to genealogists and family historians is extremely frustrating.  (Like military documents in England!) For instance, did you notice in your search that John's wife, Anne, either died or left the family between 1880 and 1895?  The 1900 census shows that John has a new wife, "Cammilla", and they have been married for about 5 years.  Depending on the date of your letter, perhaps this has something to do with John's wife looking ill in the photo!  All of his children seem to have moved on because John and Cammilla are living on their own.  John also became a farmer between 1880 and 1900.  John was listed as a coal miner in 1870.  In 1880 he was a laborer, and finally, in 1900 he was a farmer. Did you find the 1880 census when you were looking during a free Ancestry.com time?  I wondered because the Eaglesfields are not indexed on Ancestry.com with any sort of spelling in 1880.  I found them by paging through 45 images of Butler County, Allegheny Township.  They were on Image 37--very plainly written as Eaglesfield.  Just in case, John was 49, Anna 51, Mary 18, Elisabeth 16, Isabella 12, all born in England.  Susannah 10, and George 6 were both born in Pennsylvania. I found the 1870 and 1880 censuses interesting because they clearly state that Isabella was born in England.  If so, why wasn't she enumerated on the passenger manifest for the Etna?  Since Isabella was obviously born in England if the family emigrated from England in 1869, she should have been on the manifest.  It is ludicrous to entertain the notion that a three year old would travel in steerage across the Atlantic alone, so she must have been on the Etna with the rest of her family. I will keep the census research I have on John for a few weeks in case you have questions.  Happy Eaglesfield Hunting!  --Carolyn, in Minnesota, USA ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It's colloquial & regional in New Zealand as well. In fact we seem to have picked up many of the various regional expressions. My grand father said that his grandfather used to complain about the unintelligible accents of the other side of the family. He was from Leicestershire, they from Cornwall/Devon. Les Stokes -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 9:29 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters - the last one Hi Jan Thats quite a common saying and have used it a lot myself OED says its colloquial & regional but not what region(s) As its topical for today A quote 1853 Dickens Bleak House xxi. 208 'How de do??' 'Middling,' replies Mr. George. Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > My grandfather, from Lincoln, who lived with us in Leicester, used to > answer > when asked how he was: "Fair to middling.". Sometimes, maybe because he > now > lived in the midlands, he made it: "Fair to midland.". > > Jan ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I will check into that. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Madeline V. Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 12:27 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters - the last one Hello Carolyn,   I received a monthly update for Ancestry this morning (Wednesday) in which is offered a new site for PA Church and Town BMD  records. Perhaps the Eaglesfield family that you have been helping with are included in that ?      I have not yet subscribed to Ancestry so have not tried to  check.   Hope this is of some help.   Madeline in California --- On Wed, 2/8/12, Charles Sidebottom <[email protected]> wrote: From: Charles Sidebottom <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters - the last one To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, February 8, 2012, 7:59 AM Hi Brian, I have looked for John Eaglesfield's death date in Pennsylvania. Unfortunately, Pennsylvania is apparently one of the states who guards their privacy jealously.  There are not many sites that offer vital records, and none of them offer an index (like England's) or the opportunity for non-relatives or non-direct line relatives to see records or order death certificates even if they qualify without a stiff fee.  So, I have to report failure to find John's death date.  However at age 87 on the 1920 census, I think you could safely assume that he died between 1920 and 1930, as you have done.  Keep checking, Perhaps later, Pennsylvania will release more information from this time period.  In the US, it is not the Federal government that has control over the vital records other than requiring states to have a system for keeping records of births, marriages, divorces, and deaths.  Each state is responsible for making their own policies and procedures regarding keeping the records. Some states are very open with their records like Missouri who has posted images of the documents online for free viewing.  Others, like Pennsylvania require persons to make application to even find out if they qualify to be "let in on the secret!" If they do, the fees for finding out could be quite expensive.   After Social Security was enacted by the Federal Government sometime in the 1930's it was easier for people to find out at least the death dates from the Social Security Death Index (SSDI)that is online at Ancestry.com. Unfortunately, John Eaglesfield narrowly missed out on this! I think you indicated that you had most of the information from the Immigration and the Censuses starting in 1869-70.  I found John on all of the Censuses between 1870 and 1920 except for 1890 and 1910.  Naturally, the 1890 census that would have told us the most about the lives of families prior to the turn of the century was totally destroyed by fire in 1921. Only a couple of district records remain because they were being used in another building at the time.  This was a critical time in many immigrant's lives and the loss of the 1890 Census to genealogists and family historians is extremely frustrating.  (Like military documents in England!) For instance, did you notice in your search that John's wife, Anne, either died or left the family between 1880 and 1895?  The 1900 census shows that John has a new wife, "Cammilla", and they have been married for about 5 years.  Depending on the date of your letter, perhaps this has something to do with John's wife looking ill in the photo!  All of his children seem to have moved on because John and Cammilla are living on their own.  John also became a farmer between 1880 and 1900.  John was listed as a coal miner in 1870.  In 1880 he was a laborer, and finally, in 1900 he was a farmer. Did you find the 1880 census when you were looking during a free Ancestry.com time?  I wondered because the Eaglesfields are not indexed on Ancestry.com with any sort of spelling in 1880.  I found them by paging through 45 images of Butler County, Allegheny Township.  They were on Image 37--very plainly written as Eaglesfield.  Just in case, John was 49, Anna 51, Mary 18, Elisabeth 16, Isabella 12, all born in England.  Susannah 10, and George 6 were both born in Pennsylvania. I found the 1870 and 1880 censuses interesting because they clearly state that Isabella was born in England.  If so, why wasn't she enumerated on the passenger manifest for the Etna?  Since Isabella was obviously born in England if the family emigrated from England in 1869, she should have been on the manifest.  It is ludicrous to entertain the notion that a three year old would travel in steerage across the Atlantic alone, so she must have been on the Etna with the rest of her family. I will keep the census research I have on John for a few weeks in case you have questions.  Happy Eaglesfield Hunting!  --Carolyn, in Minnesota, USA ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Now Peter it wasn't that hard :-) £1 each leaves remainder £2 £2 = 40/- 40/- divided by three = 13/- each remainder 1/- 1/- = 12d 12d divided by three = 4d each £1 + 13/- + 4d = £1/13/4d As you rightly say :-) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) What does Annie mean "3 into £5" won't go? They each got £1-13-4. Quite straightforward. My primary school teacher would be proud of me remembering how to divide LSD. Annie is obviously far too young. Peter Barsby

What does Annie mean "3 into £5" won't go? They each got £1-13-4. Quite straightforward. My primary school teacher would be proud of me remembering how to divide LSD. Annie is obviously far too young. Peter Barsby

My granny ROBINSON from Nuneaton, just across the border in Warwickshire, was very well to do in her latter years and she had an account at Marshall & Snelgroves. Going with her on a shopping expedition to Leicester was a bit like being part of a royal visit. My gran would wear her mink stole draped round her neck and we were supposed to be on our best behaviour. My mum was the chauffeuse because altho my grandpa had a car he couldn't drive and we would park outside. My gran would process thro the store and then a chair would be set for Mrs Robinson and several assistants would flutter round bringing materials, gloves and all sorts for her to choose from. "Yes Mrs robinson, no Mrs Roninson three bags full Mrs Robinson". And of course she could take any thing she wanted "on Appro". Usually grandpa would give us one of those lovely white £5.00 notes to be shared between us 3 children. Unfortunately 3 into £5.00 doesn't go evenly so quite often there would be a suppressed argument in the back seat as we processed back to Nuneaton. I think it was Marshall & Snelgroves who used lovely dress boxes in a floral design with lots of tissue paper. I had one in which I kept my "special " things. Was there a shop called Adderleys or something like that in Leicester or was it in Birmingham? Yours Anne in icy south Yorkshire

Hello Carolyn,   I received a monthly update for Ancestry this morning (Wednesday) in which is offered a new site for PA Church and Town BMD  records. Perhaps the Eaglesfield family that you have been helping with are included in that ?      I have not yet subscribed to Ancestry so have not tried to  check.   Hope this is of some help.   Madeline in California --- On Wed, 2/8/12, Charles Sidebottom <[email protected]> wrote: From: Charles Sidebottom <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters - the last one To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, February 8, 2012, 7:59 AM Hi Brian, I have looked for John Eaglesfield's death date in Pennsylvania. Unfortunately, Pennsylvania is apparently one of the states who guards their privacy jealously.  There are not many sites that offer vital records, and none of them offer an index (like England's) or the opportunity for non-relatives or non-direct line relatives to see records or order death certificates even if they qualify without a stiff fee.  So, I have to report failure to find John's death date.  However at age 87 on the 1920 census, I think you could safely assume that he died between 1920 and 1930, as you have done.  Keep checking, Perhaps later, Pennsylvania will release more information from this time period.  In the US, it is not the Federal government that has control over the vital records other than requiring states to have a system for keeping records of births, marriages, divorces, and deaths.  Each state is responsible for making their own policies and procedures regarding keeping the records. Some states are very open with their records like Missouri who has posted images of the documents online for free viewing.  Others, like Pennsylvania require persons to make application to even find out if they qualify to be "let in on the secret!" If they do, the fees for finding out could be quite expensive.   After Social Security was enacted by the Federal Government sometime in the 1930's it was easier for people to find out at least the death dates from the Social Security Death Index (SSDI)that is online at Ancestry.com. Unfortunately, John Eaglesfield narrowly missed out on this! I think you indicated that you had most of the information from the Immigration and the Censuses starting in 1869-70.  I found John on all of the Censuses between 1870 and 1920 except for 1890 and 1910.  Naturally, the 1890 census that would have told us the most about the lives of families prior to the turn of the century was totally destroyed by fire in 1921. Only a couple of district records remain because they were being used in another building at the time.  This was a critical time in many immigrant's lives and the loss of the 1890 Census to genealogists and family historians is extremely frustrating.  (Like military documents in England!) For instance, did you notice in your search that John's wife, Anne, either died or left the family between 1880 and 1895?  The 1900 census shows that John has a new wife, "Cammilla", and they have been married for about 5 years.  Depending on the date of your letter, perhaps this has something to do with John's wife looking ill in the photo!  All of his children seem to have moved on because John and Cammilla are living on their own.  John also became a farmer between 1880 and 1900.  John was listed as a coal miner in 1870.  In 1880 he was a laborer, and finally, in 1900 he was a farmer. Did you find the 1880 census when you were looking during a free Ancestry.com time?  I wondered because the Eaglesfields are not indexed on Ancestry.com with any sort of spelling in 1880.  I found them by paging through 45 images of Butler County, Allegheny Township.  They were on Image 37--very plainly written as Eaglesfield.  Just in case, John was 49, Anna 51, Mary 18, Elisabeth 16, Isabella 12, all born in England.  Susannah 10, and George 6 were both born in Pennsylvania. I found the 1870 and 1880 censuses interesting because they clearly state that Isabella was born in England.  If so, why wasn't she enumerated on the passenger manifest for the Etna?  Since Isabella was obviously born in England if the family emigrated from England in 1869, she should have been on the manifest.  It is ludicrous to entertain the notion that a three year old would travel in steerage across the Atlantic alone, so she must have been on the Etna with the rest of her family. I will keep the census research I have on John for a few weeks in case you have questions.  Happy Eaglesfield Hunting!  --Carolyn, in Minnesota, USA ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Brian, I have looked for John Eaglesfield's death date in Pennsylvania. Unfortunately, Pennsylvania is apparently one of the states who guards their privacy jealously. There are not many sites that offer vital records, and none of them offer an index (like England's) or the opportunity for non-relatives or non-direct line relatives to see records or order death certificates even if they qualify without a stiff fee. So, I have to report failure to find John's death date. However at age 87 on the 1920 census, I think you could safely assume that he died between 1920 and 1930, as you have done. Keep checking, Perhaps later, Pennsylvania will release more information from this time period. In the US, it is not the Federal government that has control over the vital records other than requiring states to have a system for keeping records of births, marriages, divorces, and deaths. Each state is responsible for making their own policies and procedures regarding keeping the records. Some states are very open with their records like Missouri who has posted images of the documents online for free viewing. Others, like Pennsylvania require persons to make application to even find out if they qualify to be "let in on the secret!" If they do, the fees for finding out could be quite expensive. After Social Security was enacted by the Federal Government sometime in the 1930's it was easier for people to find out at least the death dates from the Social Security Death Index (SSDI)that is online at Ancestry.com. Unfortunately, John Eaglesfield narrowly missed out on this! I think you indicated that you had most of the information from the Immigration and the Censuses starting in 1869-70. I found John on all of the Censuses between 1870 and 1920 except for 1890 and 1910. Naturally, the 1890 census that would have told us the most about the lives of families prior to the turn of the century was totally destroyed by fire in 1921. Only a couple of district records remain because they were being used in another building at the time. This was a critical time in many immigrant's lives and the loss of the 1890 Census to genealogists and family historians is extremely frustrating. (Like military documents in England!) For instance, did you notice in your search that John's wife, Anne, either died or left the family between 1880 and 1895? The 1900 census shows that John has a new wife, "Cammilla", and they have been married for about 5 years. Depending on the date of your letter, perhaps this has something to do with John's wife looking ill in the photo! All of his children seem to have moved on because John and Cammilla are living on their own. John also became a farmer between 1880 and 1900. John was listed as a coal miner in 1870. In 1880 he was a laborer, and finally, in 1900 he was a farmer. Did you find the 1880 census when you were looking during a free Ancestry.com time? I wondered because the Eaglesfields are not indexed on Ancestry.com with any sort of spelling in 1880. I found them by paging through 45 images of Butler County, Allegheny Township. They were on Image 37--very plainly written as Eaglesfield. Just in case, John was 49, Anna 51, Mary 18, Elisabeth 16, Isabella 12, all born in England. Susannah 10, and George 6 were both born in Pennsylvania. I found the 1870 and 1880 censuses interesting because they clearly state that Isabella was born in England. If so, why wasn't she enumerated on the passenger manifest for the Etna? Since Isabella was obviously born in England if the family emigrated from England in 1869, she should have been on the manifest. It is ludicrous to entertain the notion that a three year old would travel in steerage across the Atlantic alone, so she must have been on the Etna with the rest of her family. I will keep the census research I have on John for a few weeks in case you have questions. Happy Eaglesfield Hunting! --Carolyn, in Minnesota, USA

Interesting website with photos of streets/parts of Leicester long gone. Brian Binns http://cdm15407.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/search/collection/p15407coll5/searcht erm/Leicester%20--%20City%20centre/field/place/mode/exact/conn/and/cosuppres s/ _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4794 - Release Date: 02/07/12

Hi Anne - according to this recording i've just found, Adderley's was formerly on the site of Marshall & Snelgrove. Coincidently, my mum used to work at Marshall & Snelgrove in the 1950's. _http://leicester.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15407coll10/ id/100_ (http://leicester.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15407coll10/id/100) Regards, Manda. In a message dated 08/02/2012 10:36:58 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: My granny ROBINSON from Nuneaton, just across the border in Warwickshire, was very well to do in her latter years and she had an account at Marshall & Snelgroves. Going with her on a shopping expedition to Leicester was a bit like being part of a royal visit. My gran would wear her mink stole draped round her neck and we were supposed to be on our best behaviour. My mum was the chauffeuse because altho my grandpa had a car he couldn't drive and we would park outside. My gran would process thro the store and then a chair would be set for Mrs Robinson and several assistants would flutter round bringing materials, gloves and all sorts for her to choose from. "Yes Mrs robinson, no Mrs Roninson three bags full Mrs Robinson". And of course she could take any thing she wanted "on Appro". Usually grandpa would give us one of those lovely white £5.00 notes to be shared between us 3 children. Unfortunately 3 into £5.00 doesn't go evenly so quite often there would be a suppressed argument in the back seat as we processed back to Nuneaton. I think it was Marshall & Snelgroves who used lovely dress boxes in a floral design with lots of tissue paper. I had one in which I kept my "special " things. Was there a shop called Adderleys or something like that in Leicester or was it in Birmingham? Yours Anne in icy south Yorkshire ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes that is certainly one I was visiting Woolies on a regular basis then as it was where we bought our singles from :-) In fact I bought my very first single there :-) And yes the other side of the street on the corner of Halford street Marshall & Snelgrove were a department store But what was the name of the shop I think in the same row, it was a delicatessen and all sorts The smells were amazing , I am sure we have talked about it before on list but I cannot recall the name of it Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Marshall & Snelgrove? > > I worked as a management trainee for F.W.Woolworth and was at the Gallowtree > Gate branch in 1967, but of course that was on the opposite side of the > road. > > Brian Binns

These days I'm more inclined to say: I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy! :-} David Armstrong Maylands, Western Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Nivard Ovington To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters - the last one Hi Jan Thats quite a common saying and have used it a lot myself OED says its colloquial & regional but not what region(s) As its topical for today A quote 1853 Dickens Bleak House xxi. 208 'How de do??' 'Middling,' replies Mr. George. Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > My grandfather, from Lincoln, who lived with us in Leicester, used to answer > when asked how he was: "Fair to middling.". Sometimes, maybe because he now > lived in the midlands, he made it: "Fair to midland.". > > Jan ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Mike I would have been in Lewis's often when you were working there. My bus dropped us in Humberstone Gate and I always went straight into Lewis's first to start a shopping afternoon, also visiting several other shops and often the market too. Maybe your Lucy Eaglesfield was related to the people mentioned in the letters. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 1:47 AM Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian letter > Very interesting ,thank you Brian. In 1960/1961 I started work at Lewis's > department sore in Humberston Gate Leicester. One of my first departments > to > work n was the book and magazine section which was in the basement. I > worked > for a lady called Miss Lucy Eaglesfield who would have been about sixty > years old at the time, I do not know what became of her but your story > brought back some memories. > > Mike > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4791 - Release Date: 02/05/12 >

My grandfather, from Lincoln, who lived with us in Leicester, used to answer when asked how he was: "Fair to middling.". Sometimes, maybe because he now lived in the midlands, he made it: "Fair to midland.". Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Binns" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters - the last one > Nivard, > > I forgot to mention the words Susannah used to describe how her health > was - "this leaves me middling". What a great word is middling. Personally > I still use it today but get funny looks from a few folk who obviously > have no idea what I'm saying or what it means. > > Brian Binns > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nivard > Ovington > Sent: 06 February 2012 19:12 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian Letters - the last one > > > Well bless the girl <g> > > She was obviously not to chuffed to have to pay the excess postage was she > :-) > > An interesting insight into life of the period > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > >> Dear Brother Neices and Nephews I hope that you are all quite well this >> leaves me but middling the >> weather is very hot I am writing to inform you that poor old Brother >> George passed away on Whit >> Monday at quarter to 5 in the evening was buried on the following >> Saturday but I could not go as I >> had not the means to go I do not know wether sister went as I never see >> her I dont supose Brother >> Bill would be thier as they did not intend to let him know as he never >> went to see him he was >> offended because they could not lodge him their he wrote to Leicester to >> Lizzy to know if she >> would she written back to say that she could not so he stayed at Derby >> he did go out waiting and >> set dinners out when he left London he brought up a lot of pictures took >> them to lizzys their was >> his wifes oil paintings what her lady presented her with when she >> started with her bill said they >> was to be devided but she sticks to the lot her son walter passed his >> examination for B a in >> November last what his year don?t kill yourself to keep yourself my best >> days are over I have no >> one to help me I cannot do as I have done but hope that I shall be able >> to pull through what >> little time I have to live I wish I had a relative to live with me you >> ought to of come & ended >> your days in Old England I hope and trust that you will write once more >> as soon as you can no one >> else as ever written to you but myself but the last time I had to write >> twice before I heard I do >> not let work take all the time we was not sent for that but to prepare >> heaselfs for another world >> we are here today & gone to merrea people go very sudden I was very >> pleased to recieve your photos >> it gives us an idea what you look like you seem to age a lot you are very >> much like poor George >> was when I received your photos they charged me 1s 1d because you sent >> the letter in the photos I >> must conclude with kindest love to you all your ever affectionate sister >> S Eaglesfield > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4792 - Release Date: 02/06/12 > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4792 - Release Date: 02/06/12 > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4792 - Release Date: 02/06/12 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4793 - Release Date: 02/06/12 >

They are still living together on the 1901 census, in Sandon Street, Crosby, Lancs, but for some reason the enumerator has failed to put anything in the "Relation to Head" column. Consequently the transcribers at Ancestry - bless them - have recorded these two ladies, and incidentally their two boarders, as belonging to the family above them on the census sheet. This despite the fact that the households are listed with separate house numbers. One of the ladies is now listed as "own account" and "working at home" though the other has nothing in this column. On reflection I would guess that they were two dressmakers working at home together. This is another Eaglesfield by the way. Brian Binns -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: 07 February 2012 12:44 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LEI] FW: Partner Hi Brian I would look in other years but personally I doubt if two women (or men for that matter) would publicly state they were having a relationship other than a business or other connection If one was down as head the other may not have wanted to be enumerated as an underling or minor in the house Remembering that all the pages we see before 1911 are a transcript of the household schedule Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) PS Notts list address deleted > Further to this question, I should have added that both are listed as > Dressmaker - so they could be partners in a business - but surely that > wouldn't be recorded in the "Relation to Head of Family" column? > > > > Brian Binns ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4793 - Release Date: 02/06/12 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4793 - Release Date: 02/06/12 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4793 - Release Date: 02/06/12

Hi Brian I would look in other years but personally I doubt if two women (or men for that matter) would publicly state they were having a relationship other than a business or other connection If one was down as head the other may not have wanted to be enumerated as an underling or minor in the house Remembering that all the pages we see before 1911 are a transcript of the household schedule Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) PS Notts list address deleted > Further to this question, I should have added that both are listed as > Dressmaker - so they could be partners in a business - but surely that > wouldn't be recorded in the "Relation to Head of Family" column? > > > > Brian Binns

Further to this question, I should have added that both are listed as Dressmaker - so they could be partners in a business - but surely that wouldn't be recorded in the "Relation to Head of Family" column? Brian Binns From: Brian Binns [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 07 February 2012 12:36 To: '[email protected]'; '[email protected]' Subject: Partner A question. I have found a female on the 1891 census living with another female of a similar age. One is listed as "head" the other as "partner." I cannot get away from treating the word partner in its 21st century meaning, but am I wrong in applying that to a 19th century relationship. Did this word have a standard meaning in Victorian times, or am I reading into this something that just isn't there. Brian Binns _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4793 - Release Date: 02/06/12 _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4793 - Release Date: 02/06/12

A question. I have found a female on the 1891 census living with another female of a similar age. One is listed as "head" the other as "partner." I cannot get away from treating the word partner in its 21st century meaning, but am I wrong in applying that to a 19th century relationship. Did this word have a standard meaning in Victorian times, or am I reading into this something that just isn't there. Brian Binns _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4793 - Release Date: 02/06/12

Marshall & Snelgrove? I worked as a management trainee for F.W.Woolworth and was at the Gallowtree Gate branch in 1967, but of course that was on the opposite side of the road. Brian Binns -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: 07 February 2012 11:11 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LEI] Victorian letter >> Shops in Gallowtree Gate ? Hi Jan My wifes first job was at Lewis's in the shoe department Just round the corner from Timothy Whites where one of my brothers first worked, also close to Bree's on Churchgate where a sister worked Now I wonder if anyone can help stir my fading memory We have been trying to remember what shops were down the Gallowtree Gate on the Market side in the 1960's & 70's ? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hi Mike > > I would have been in Lewis's often when you were working there. My bus > dropped us in Humberstone Gate and I always went straight into Lewis's first > to > start a shopping afternoon, also visiting several other shops and often the > market too. Maybe your Lucy Eaglesfield was related to the people mentioned > in the letters. > > Jan ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4793 - Release Date: 02/06/12 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4793 - Release Date: 02/06/12 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4793 - Release Date: 02/06/12