Dear Brothers and Sisters, This conversation lately about stealing names has struck me significantly and I thought I would share a thought that has come to my mind. Over the years I have done a lot of research and also a lot of temple work. I considered the people I had researched as my property. Recently I have come to realized that they really are not "mine" but Heavenly Father's and His work needs to be done. After submitting hundreds of names to the temple family files I finally realized that I could not possibly do all the work myself, even if I worked through the Millennium to do it...so I contributed the files to the temple. I am still doing research and trying to clean up my inaccuracies since we are on NFS but most of my researched names I am contributing to the temple because the important thing is to get the ordinances completed, even if they are close relatives. A mother, well, I do think the daughter should have that option, but even if someone else unkindly stepped in and completed the ordinances, at least the work is complete and the mother is now happy. Sometimes I think our need for "ownership" clouds our vision of what this work is about. I hope this does not sound too harsh, and that people realize it took me a while to get to this place, but I am happier and much more calmed and relaxed about the work. The burden is being shared around the world by generous people who serve with joy in temples in many lands, for which I am extremely grateful. With best wishes for all, Pattie

Thank you all for your responses, but I believe I need to clarify my comments from this morning. I agree with all that has been said about feeling possessive of our ancestors and remembering that these are God's children. I absolutely agree. If I was not clear this morning, this was not what I was referring to. I have never resented finding other family members contributing to the work. I think that's wonderful! I have never resented finding work done through extraction. Sometimes that extracted record is what helps me move through to the next step. Realize, I don't have hundreds of names at a time to submit. I come from a long line of LDS members, as does my husband. It can take me years of work to locate a handful of ordinances that need to be completed. At that point, yes, I want the blessing that is predicated upon the sacrifice. I don't think that's wrong. What I was describing was a family member who, rather than doing research in order to provide ordinances for their family, was "mining" the IGI and completing ordinances that someone else had researched and submitted. You'll have a hard time convincing me that that practice is appropriate. If our family members' work is in progress, we celebrate and move the work forward for additional family members. I can't think of any circumstance that it would be loving, kind, honest, or selfless to hurry quick and do the ordinances for a family member when the work is already in process. That is why this experience of mine triggered in my mind in association with Gay's email question. The cousin was trying to hurry up and do ordinance work before the daughter had a chance--the daughter who is the nearest living relative and should be doing the work for her own mother. My situation was not a close relative, and honestly, I don't resent the people who did the ordinance work I had cleared. I was sad that I had lost that opportunity, but I deleted the ordinances left on my cards and moved on with more research. I only shared this so that we can all continue to teach our hearts out as we train our ward members. We need to teach and respect the guidelines, and we need to do this work in love for our families--living and dead. That's the bottom line, and I hope I wasn't misunderstood earlier today. I'm not a resentful person. :-) Jill Crandell

Jill, my response was not to your message which I found very sound, but Patricia's message which was also very sound....we need to be honest and doing this work is another opportunity for being just that. As consultants we need to be saying the right things to those we help that they can see the rules are important. It is a well known fact that we should not be encroaching on anyone else's direct lineage within the time limit and the importance of it is highlighted in a discussion such as this. Great! Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jill N. Crandell" <jncrandell@broadweave.net> To: <lds-ward-consultant@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [LDS-WC] stealing names thought > Thank you all for your responses, but I believe I need to clarify my > comments from this morning. I agree with all that has been said about > feeling possessive of our ancestors and remembering that these are God's > children. I absolutely agree. If I was not clear this morning, this was > not > what I was referring to. I have never resented finding other family > members > contributing to the work. I think that's wonderful! I have never resented > finding work done through extraction. Sometimes that extracted record is > what helps me move through to the next step. > > Realize, I don't have hundreds of names at a time to submit. I come from a > long line of LDS members, as does my husband. It can take me years of work > to locate a handful of ordinances that need to be completed. At that > point, > yes, I want the blessing that is predicated upon the sacrifice. I don't > think that's wrong. What I was describing was a family member who, rather > than doing research in order to provide ordinances for their family, was > "mining" the IGI and completing ordinances that someone else had > researched > and submitted. You'll have a hard time convincing me that that practice is > appropriate. If our family members' work is in progress, we celebrate and > move the work forward for additional family members. I can't think of any > circumstance that it would be loving, kind, honest, or selfless to hurry > quick and do the ordinances for a family member when the work is already > in > process. That is why this experience of mine triggered in my mind in > association with Gay's email question. The cousin was trying to hurry up > and > do ordinance work before the daughter had a chance--the daughter who is > the > nearest living relative and should be doing the work for her own mother. > > My situation was not a close relative, and honestly, I don't resent the > people who did the ordinance work I had cleared. I was sad that I had lost > that opportunity, but I deleted the ordinances left on my cards and moved > on > with more research. I only shared this so that we can all continue to > teach > our hearts out as we train our ward members. We need to teach and respect > the guidelines, and we need to do this work in love for our > families--living > and dead. That's the bottom line, and I hope I wasn't misunderstood > earlier > today. I'm not a resentful person. :-) > > Jill Crandell > > Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to > LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kathy, No offense taken on any posts today! This has been a good discussion, and I think we all understand each other. It is possible that a submitter has passed away, and it's possible that cards are sitting in a suitcase somewhere. However, it's also possible that there are real life delays in legitimate situations, and it isn't up to us to take over. I feel that contacting Salt Lake to ask about submitters and attempting to identify and contact them is totally appropriate. That would be working within the guidelines and respecting the submitter. If that person is overwhelmed and would love help, or would be happy to turn the work over to a closer relative, that's great. That is a wonderful way to cooperate and increase love and respect in our families. Jill Crandell -----Original Message----- From: Kathy Scott [mailto:kathyscott1@ntlworld.com] Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 5:34 PM To: lds-ward-consultant@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LDS-WC] stealing names thought Jill, my response was not to your message which I found very sound, but Patricia's message which was also very sound....we need to be honest and doing this work is another opportunity for being just that. As consultants we need to be saying the right things to those we help that they can see the rules are important. It is a well known fact that we should not be encroaching on anyone else's direct lineage within the time limit and the importance of it is highlighted in a discussion such as this. Great! Kathy

Dear All With great understanding of all points of view hitherto mentioned here on the subject of protecting one's own family ordinances, I agree with Patricia even though I have felt an initial resentment when I have found a reasonably close relative in my direct line has had the work done through the extraction program. It is good that we should feel possessive of our ancestors but we must not forget what this is all about. With the work widening out across the world this is a great opportunity to 'meet up' with others who are as passionate about the work for mankind as we are. I love the enthusiasm of you guys! Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia A. Crossett" <Patricia.A.Crossett@Dartmouth.EDU> To: <lds-ward-consultant@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 5:08 PM Subject: [LDS-WC] stealing names thought > Dear Brothers and Sisters, > > This conversation lately about stealing names has struck me significantly > and > I thought I would share a thought that has come to my mind. Over the > years I > have done a lot of research and also a lot of temple work. I considered > the people > I had researched as my property. Recently I have come to realized that > they really > are not "mine" but Heavenly Father's and His work needs to be done. After > submitting > hundreds of names to the temple family files I finally realized that I > could not > possibly do all the work myself, even if I worked through the Millennium > to do > it...so I contributed the files to the temple. I am still doing research > and > trying to clean up my inaccuracies since we are on NFS but most of my > researched > names I am contributing to the temple because the important thing is to > get the > ordinances completed, even if they are close relatives. A mother, well, I > do > think the daughter should have that option, but even if someone else > unkindly > stepped in and completed the ordinances, at least the work is complete and > the > mother is now happy. > > Sometimes I think our need for "ownership" clouds our vision of what this > work > is about. I hope this does not sound too harsh, and that people realize > it took > me a while to get to this place, but I am happier and much more calmed and > relaxed > about the work. The burden is being shared around the world by generous > people > who serve with joy in temples in many lands, for which I am extremely > grateful. > > With best wishes for all, > Pattie > > Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to > LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message