Jill, I am glad that you made your comments. I did not intend to mean that we would permanently not combine large records when I posted the "Instruction for Members with Pioneer Ancestry". I was trying to say that now is perhaps not the time to attempt to start combining while Utah and Idaho are coming on. While the pioneer ancestors probably win hands down for duplication of work, I do have early lines that have the same issues. I went to a RM workshop this last Saturday and the presenter said that when we combine right now that we are only combining in our tree. He said that if his son-in-law went to the same records that it would not be combined for the son-in-law. The presenter, Dave Vickers, talked to someone he knows in SLC who confirmed his theory. He told him to send him an email when the combined records started showing up for everyone because it is too much work to do all that combining and then just do it again. I do not plan to take that approach but the pioneers are not the only persons with huge data. You made the perfect comment about keeping lists of persons. All we have to do is make the lists. I have a Tuttle lines that go back to Joseph Smith, Mayflower lines, and other early lines that are such a huge mess that I do not know where to begin. A Smith line I looked about a year ago, not the prophet's Smith line that I know of, for one person has 700+ combined records. It is all a bit overwhelming to me. When FS Family Tree is developed or whatever the replacement for NFS is, the duplication issue should resolve itself as you said. One thing is sure in FH at the moment, there is change and we need to adjust to that. Nancy Scott Cincinnati, Ohio -----Original Message----- From: lds-ward-consultant-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lds-ward-consultant-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jill N. Crandell Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 04:03 PM To: lds-ward-consultant@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LDS-WC] When to stop combining I was trying to stay out of this, but I'm going to have to comment. There are some misunderstandings beginning, and as consultants, we have to get it right. Nancy wrote: "Instruction for Members with Pioneer Ancestry" If a member has a pioneer ancestor containing a large amount of information in NFS, combine duplicate information until you find his or her ordinances dates. When you find the ordinance information, stop combining. Over time, changes to the NFS web site will be made that will improve the way the information about these pioneer ancestors is accessed and displayed. Tina then asked: Should I only be combining duplicates who need work done? My response: We should combine until there is only one record for each individual in the system. The IOUSs cannot all be combined right now, but my information is that this will be resolved soon. You'll notice that Nancy's quote is referring to the IOUSs, and they suggested combining until ordinance work is found. That means that your file for that ancestor will indicate that the work is done. That is the point. It's not that we shouldn't combine, it's that they are trying to prevent duplication of ordinance work. At the same time, the system can't handle the masses of records that these early pioneers need to have merged. They want us to show the work done AND not overload the system. That's what these instructions are addressing. Here is another NFS document on this topic: Handling Records That Are Too Large to Combine A combined record of more than 150 individual records creates serious problems for the system. Until the system is fixed, please do the following: * Keep a list of large records to combine later when the system is repaired. The News and Updates section on the sign-in page will inform you when this occurs. * Work on other records in your family tree. * Do not redo ordinances. This means that the ordinances won't show on this person until the problem is resolved and the records are combined. My comments: If we only need to combine until ordinances are recorded, then there would be no reason to keep a list of large records to combine after changes are made in the system. Notice the emphasis on not duplicating ordinances. Another NFS document: Why should I combine duplicate records? When an individual appears only once in the new FamilySearch, you will see these benefits: * The temple work for an individual and family will be done only once. * An individual's information is in one place. All contributors can then work together to do the following: o Correct errors. o Add sources and notes to indicate correct information. o Dispute incorrect information. Even if you disagree with some of the information that has been contributed about an individual, you should combine all of the information anyway. Remember, having the information in one place prevents duplication of temple work and research. My final comments: You need to visualize a pedigree where there is a pioneer ancestor with multiple records uncombined. Even if every one of them indicates temple work has been done, since we all know that multiple ordinances have been done for these people, you can still see how future research would add the same ancestors for these people in multiple places. Doing that will again promote duplication of ordinance work. Please don't misunderstand temporary IOUS instructions and apply them to the rest of the file or think they are long term instructions. The IOUSs will probably go away now in a matter of months. Other than those situations, combine every record that you are sure refers to the same person. Jill Crandell Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

> ... the presenter said that when > we combine right now that we are only combining in our tree. He said that > if his son-in-law went to the same records that it would not be combined > for > the son-in-law. The presenter, Dave Vickers, talked to someone he knows > in > SLC who confirmed his theory. He told him to send him an email when the > combined records started showing up for everyone because it is too much > work > to do all that combining and then just do it again. This is not correct. When you combine, everyone who accesses any of the combined persons will see that they have been combined. This is easily tested. The next time you do some combining, ask someone else to log in and look at the records. Aloha, John

Nancy wrote: I did not intend to mean that we would permanently not combine large records when I posted the "Instruction for Members with Pioneer Ancestry". I was trying to say that now is perhaps not the time to attempt to start combining while Utah and Idaho are coming on. While the pioneer ancestors probably win hands down for duplication of work, I do have early lines that have the same issues. Nancy, I was pretty sure you knew that this was not a permanent instruction. However, I started seeing people misunderstanding what you were saying, so I thought I would try to clarify. The bottom line is that we currently have to work with IOUSs, which I agree is also a problem with Mayflower people and lots of New England ancestors in addition to the pioneers, but once that problem is solved, the end goal is to combine all duplicate records of the same person. Any that can be combined now, do it. Any that can't, wait for the resolution of the IOUS problem and then go at it again. As for the combining for our own tree only, please see the email I just sent and let's test it! That's something important that we need to know. Jill Crandell

Jill, I just checked for KL5K-HRY, Reece Y. Carrel, and found the 20 records combined as one. I am thrilled to be wrong about when I stated that they only show up in an individual's own tree and not for others. If I find a way to contact Dave Vickers, I will pass it on to him. I did notice in "Records that are too Large to Combine" (defined as files with larger than 150 records) besides keeping a list, it says to work in other records in your family tree and not to redo the work. Not redoing the work means that the ordinances will not show on this person until the problem is resolved and the records are combined. This is from page 131 of the NFS User's Guide and not just for pioneer ancestry. Back to the question, "To combine or not to combine?" It seems to me that for the moment until the problem is resolved with large files that they are asking us to work on other lines if they are too large to combine as stated in the NFS User's Guide. Nancy Scott Cincinnati, Ohio -----Original Message----- From: lds-ward-consultant-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lds-ward-consultant-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jill N. Crandell Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 05:56 PM To: lds-ward-consultant@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LDS-WC] When to stop combining Nancy wrote: I did not intend to mean that we would permanently not combine large records when I posted the "Instruction for Members with Pioneer Ancestry". I was trying to say that now is perhaps not the time to attempt to start combining while Utah and Idaho are coming on. While the pioneer ancestors probably win hands down for duplication of work, I do have early lines that have the same issues. Nancy, I was pretty sure you knew that this was not a permanent instruction. However, I started seeing people misunderstanding what you were saying, so I thought I would try to clarify. The bottom line is that we currently have to work with IOUSs, which I agree is also a problem with Mayflower people and lots of New England ancestors in addition to the pioneers, but once that problem is solved, the end goal is to combine all duplicate records of the same person. Any that can be combined now, do it. Any that can't, wait for the resolution of the IOUS problem and then go at it again. As for the combining for our own tree only, please see the email I just sent and let's test it! That's something important that we need to know. Jill Crandell Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

"I went to a RM workshop this last Saturday and the presenter said that when we combine right now that we are only combining in our tree. He said that if his son-in-law went to the same records that it would not be combined for the son-in-law. The presenter, Dave Vickers, talked to someone he knows in SLC who confirmed his theory." I do not think that the above statement is correct. If you go to the bottom of a Summary or Details page and click and look at the combined records, you will see the names of all the records that have been combined. Then you have the opportunity to uncombine some if the wrong person has been combined by someone else. I see everyone's name who has combined that record. For those with many duplicates ~ When you do about 85 combinations in one file for one person, you are not permitted to do any more and the files just have to stay there as duplicates at this time. When we have been told to clean up the records on nFS, we are to combine everyone who is the same person into one file. Do not stop when you find all temple work is done when more files exist for the same person. We are giving that person one number and cleaning up the mess that pulling the records from so many sources and family contributors has created. That way, when someone looks for that person (even if the ancestor's details are incorrect), he will find that person in one file with all the combinations available to look at. On the Summary view, you can click the arrow at the end of each entry and select a more correct name if more names appear there or add another name, and you can edit their dates/locations in the same way. Whatever name you bring to the top on the Summary view, it will say Contributed by ___(you); and someone else opening that up will see your selection and name. But he can change it too. This is the place where collaboration begins. On the other hand, if you have contributed incorrect information, go to the details page and find your entry, and you can make your corrections on your own work at that point. Before I do temple work, I go to the family view (spouses and children), and I check for duplicates on parents first, and then I do each child. Once in a while, I find a second set of parents just by clicking on a certain child's name, and then I combine. Combine. Combine. Combine. Then check to see if the temple work is done by clicking on the temple icon to the left of the father's name, and you will see an update of the whole family. I have been using nFS since September 2008, and this has been my experience. Sylvia York, Pennsylvania