I'd like to make a point that some may not have thought of with this situation. We don't know whether it was done appropriately or inappropriately, but we all suspect that the rules of contacting the nearest living relative were probably not followed. However, there is another disobedience that has also occurred. Helen Radkey gives the Church a lot of grief over these ordinances, and her ability to do that is because she has access to the ordinance information in the IGI. Notice that she knew the dates the work was done for Obama's mother. There is a member of the Church somewhere who is giving her access, which gives her the ability to create these news reports. Either someone has given her their sign-in and password to use as she pleases, or she is able to get someone at an FHC or the FHL to "help" her by signing in for her--possibly not knowing who she is. As consultants, we all need to remember that the rules are in place for a reason, and if someone is unable to sign in, we should "help" them contact their ward clerk--not sign in for them. Jill Crandell

I'm wondering about the submitter. I'm guessing that it went through the Temple Ready since it was done in Provo. But wouldn't nfs have prevented them from submitting the ordinance if it wasn't linked into their tree? I suppose they could have created a fake connection somewhere, but that seems pretty far-fetched. Paula On May 7, 2009, at 12:18 PM, Jill N. Crandell wrote: > I'd like to make a point that some may not have thought of with this > situation. We don't know whether it was done appropriately or > inappropriately, but we all suspect that the rules of contacting the > nearest > living relative were probably not followed. > > However, there is another disobedience that has also occurred. Helen > Radkey > gives the Church a lot of grief over these ordinances, and her > ability to do > that is because she has access to the ordinance information in the > IGI. > Notice that she knew the dates the work was done for Obama's mother. > There > is a member of the Church somewhere who is giving her access, which > gives > her the ability to create these news reports. Either someone has > given her > their sign-in and password to use as she pleases, or she is able to > get > someone at an FHC or the FHL to "help" her by signing in for her-- > possibly > not knowing who she is. As consultants, we all need to remember that > the > rules are in place for a reason, and if someone is unable to sign > in, we > should "help" them contact their ward clerk--not sign in for them. > > Jill Crandell > > Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

That's a possibility! I know who to contact to let them know about this possibility. David Jill N. Crandell wrote: > I'd like to make a point that some may not have thought of with this > situation. We don't know whether it was done appropriately or > inappropriately, but we all suspect that the rules of contacting the nearest > living relative were probably not followed. > > However, there is another disobedience that has also occurred. Helen Radkey > gives the Church a lot of grief over these ordinances, and her ability to do > that is because she has access to the ordinance information in the IGI. > Notice that she knew the dates the work was done for Obama's mother. There > is a member of the Church somewhere who is giving her access, which gives > her the ability to create these news reports. Either someone has given her > their sign-in and password to use as she pleases, or she is able to get > someone at an FHC or the FHL to "help" her by signing in for her--possibly > not knowing who she is. As consultants, we all need to remember that the > rules are in place for a reason, and if someone is unable to sign in, we > should "help" them contact their ward clerk--not sign in for them. > > Jill Crandell > > Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

On second thought, any name that show up in IGI, it is already done in Temples. His grandparents are still shown in IGI. (a chck in nFS shows same submitter for Stanley Ann Dunham) David Samuelsen W. David Samuelsen wrote: > That's a possibility! > > I know who to contact to let them know about this possibility. > > David > > Jill N. Crandell wrote: >> I'd like to make a point that some may not have thought of with this >> situation. We don't know whether it was done appropriately or >> inappropriately, but we all suspect that the rules of contacting the nearest >> living relative were probably not followed.

Jill, I know that non-member FHC librarians are given special sign-ins for New FamilySearch. Are they also given that privilege for the IGI? If that is the case, then she might not have had access via church member's lack of following guidelines. Nancy Scott Cincinnati, Ohio -----Original Message----- From: lds-ward-consultant-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lds-ward-consultant-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jill N. Crandell Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 03:18 PM To: lds-ward-consultant@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LDS-WC] President Obama's mother's temple work done, inappropriately I'd like to make a point that some may not have thought of with this situation. We don't know whether it was done appropriately or inappropriately, but we all suspect that the rules of contacting the nearest living relative were probably not followed. However, there is another disobedience that has also occurred. Helen Radkey gives the Church a lot of grief over these ordinances, and her ability to do that is because she has access to the ordinance information in the IGI. Notice that she knew the dates the work was done for Obama's mother. There is a member of the Church somewhere who is giving her access, which gives her the ability to create these news reports. Either someone has given her their sign-in and password to use as she pleases, or she is able to get someone at an FHC or the FHL to "help" her by signing in for her--possibly not knowing who she is. As consultants, we all need to remember that the rules are in place for a reason, and if someone is unable to sign in, we should "help" them contact their ward clerk--not sign in for them. Jill Crandell Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Nancy wrote: I know that non-member FHC librarians are given special sign-ins for New FamilySearch. Are they also given that privilege for the IGI? Yes, I believe they could. However, the Church knows Helen Radkey, and I highly doubt they would give her access to these records. She has been a thorn in their side for many, many years. The only way I can think of that they would intentionally give her access is if it was part of the deal over the Holocaust victims to allow her to keep checking. I just doubt that's the case. Either way, it's a good reminder to us all that anyone using the system needs to have their own log-in. Jill Crandell

Just playing devil's advocate for a moment:   Question: "How do we know that the work for Stanley Ann Dunham wasn't originally submitted by a friend of the family? Close friend submissions are permissible. In the article, I didn't notice that anyone said that the Obama family had been asked or not asked."   By the way, both the paternal and maternal lines of the president have been made "not available" for multiple generations -- even for those individuals born more than 110 years ago.   President Obama's mother is not the only example of submissions done in questionable circumstances. (So many submitters are anxiously engaged in a good work but do not always follow guidelines and policies.)   For example, Diana Spencer's ordinances were done in the Mesa Arizona temple and I suppose that her sons (Princes William and Harry) might not have known about it. The 95 year rule was most likely not followed.   Another time, I was trying to put together an American heritage display for a ward activity. I researched various presidential families and discovered that the work for a mother of a president had been done. The unfortunate thing was that this mother was over a 100 years old and STILL living. Yecks!! Now that is a bigger problem than doing ordinances for deceased people.   Although the work for Stanley Ann Dunham probably shouldn't have been done, she may be rejoicing in the spirit world that it was. Who knows? Perhaps some good results will come out of this newspaper article. Some individuals may read it and ask the missionaries to elaborate on the doctrine of temples and family history.   I believe that the guidelines should be followed but am wary of too much time being spent on the topic.   Mary Scott Northville Ward Westland Michigan Stake   Detroit Michigan Temple

Over the years, I have learned that many members believe that they are the "exception" when it comes to following the guidelines for temple ordinance submissions.   We need to remind ourselves that "our collateral relatives are someone else's direct ancestors. Carried too far, we begin to intrude on the rights of others." (Elder Theodore M. Burton, "The Greatest Gift", pp. 248-249).   Sometimes members comment to the effect that "no one else is a member in the family so it is up to me". (This is a misleading idea because the Lord's master plan may need multiple generations to be fulfilled. Family members from future generations can join and straighten out the family lines.)   We want to do good but we  intrude on the precedence of others -- when we presume to have permission that we don't really have. The closest family members have the right to proceed with the ordinances. At the same time they also have the right to keep the ordinances from being done in the first place.   Members need to follow the teachings and guidelines with exactness -- line upon line so to speak. The temple is indeed a house of order. The guidelines for temple submissions are part of keeping order in our temples.    We need to keep our integrity intact and not believe we are the "exception" to the guidelines.   Lastly, we need to remember that there are people who are out to make trouble for the Church. They have a goal to cause contention and upset members and non-members alike.   By following the guidelines we are helping the Church avoid that trouble.   The Church has so much to do and these negative experiences just waste time and energy that should be used for other concerns.   Mary Scott Northville Ward Westland Michigan Stake   Detroit Michigan Temple

Oh Mary, You always address our situations so succinctly and with such a beautiful spirit.? Thank you for your wisdom and guidance.? I am so pleased to "know" you from this list, Kathleen -----Original Message----- From: Mary S. Scott (Michigan) <mscscott28@yahoo.com> To: lds-ward-consultant@rootsweb.com Sent: Fri, 8 May 2009 12:26 am Subject: [LDS-WC] None of us are the "exceptions" to the guidelines Over the years, I have learned that many members believe that they are the "exception" when it comes to following the guidelines for temple ordinance submissions. ? We need to remind ourselves that "our collateral relatives are someone else's direct ancestors. Carried too far, we begin to intrude on the rights of others." (Elder Theodore M. Burton, "The Greatest Gift", pp. 248-249). ? Sometimes members?comment to the effect that "no one else is a member in the family so it is up to me". (This is a misleading idea because the Lord's?master plan?may need multiple generations to be fulfilled. Family members from future generations can join and straighten out the family lines.) ? We want to do good but?we? intrude on the precedence of others -- when we presume to have permission that we don't really have. The closest family members have the right to proceed with the ordinances.?At the same time they also have the right to keep the ordinances from being done in the first place. ? Members need to follow the teachings and guidelines with exactness -- line upon line so to speak. The temple is indeed a house of order. The guidelines for temple submissions are part of keeping?order in our temples.? ? We need to keep our integrity intact and not believe we are the "exception" to the guidelines. ? Lastly, we need to remember that there are people who are out to make trouble for the Church.?They have a goal to cause contention and upset members and non-members alike. ? By following the guidelines we are helping the Church avoid that trouble. ? The Church has so much to do and these negative experiences just waste time and energy that should be used for other concerns. ? Mary Scott Northville Ward Westland Michigan Stake ? Detroit Michigan Temple Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubs cribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just playing devil's advocate for a moment:   Question: "How do we know that the work for Stanley Ann Dunham wasn't originally submitted by a friend of the family? Close friend submissions are permissible. In the article, I didn't notice that anyone said that the Obama family had been asked or not asked."   By the way, both the paternal and maternal lines of the president have been made "not available" for multiple generations -- even for those individuals born more than 110 years ago.   President Obama's mother is not the only example of submissions done in questionable circumstances. (So many submitters are anxiously engaged in a good work but do not always follow guidelines and policies.)   For example, Diana Spencer's ordinances were done in the Mesa Arizona temple and I suppose that her sons (Princes William and Harry) might not have known about it. The 95 year rule was most likely not followed.   Another time, I was trying to put together an American heritage display for a ward activity. I researched various presidential families and discovered that the work for a mother of a president had been done. The unfortunate thing was that this mother was over a 100 years old and STILL living. Yecks!! Now that is a bigger problem than doing ordinances for deceased people.   Although the work for Stanley Ann Dunham probably shouldn't have been done, she may be rejoicing in the spirit world that it was. Who knows? Perhaps some good results will come out of this newspaper article. Some individuals may read it and ask the missionaries to elaborate on the doctrine of temples and family history.   I believe that the guidelines should be followed but am wary of too much time being spent on the topic.   Mary Scott Northville Ward Westland Michigan Stake   Detroit Michigan Temple