It doesn't even let me put any names at all into the ones to Do ordinances from the main view of nfs. Steve Kelsey -----Original Message----- From: lds-ward-consultant-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lds-ward-consultant-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tom Kemp Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:26 PM To: lds-ward-consultant@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LDS-WC] temple work in nfs problem It happened to me. I simply immediately started over and finalized my FOR with fewer names. It worked. On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Stephen J. Kelsey <sjkelsey@msn.com> wrote: > The error still occurs whenever I try to do a temple ordinance for > anyone---"someone else > > Is editing this record." This means I am essentially stopped because I > cannot add any > > People for ordinances either to the temple or myself. > > Someone suggested I try family tree which I have. Whenever I try to use > family tree and click on > > Temple ordinances it goes into adding the many names from nsf I have in the > files and then works > > And works and the program just doesn't respond any more at all and > essentially freezes up. > > > > I am at a standstill until these problems are fixed. > > > > Steve Kelsey > > > > > Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to > LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That's too bad that you are continuing to have that problem. I just printed a FOR from Family Tree with no problems - it is a small number of people - 6 male, 5 female, 2 couple cards, but it worked just fine for me. Megan Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen J. Kelsey" <sjkelsey@msn.com> To: <lds-ward-consultant@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:56 PM Subject: [LDS-WC] temple work in nfs problem > The error still occurs whenever I try to do a temple ordinance for > anyone---"someone else > > Is editing this record." This means I am essentially stopped because I > cannot add any > > People for ordinances either to the temple or myself. > > Someone suggested I try family tree which I have. Whenever I try to use > family tree and click on > > Temple ordinances it goes into adding the many names from nsf I have in > the > files and then works > > And works and the program just doesn't respond any more at all and > essentially freezes up. > > > > I am at a standstill until these problems are fixed. > > > > Steve Kelsey > > > > > Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to > LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The error still occurs whenever I try to do a temple ordinance for anyone---"someone else Is editing this record." This means I am essentially stopped because I cannot add any People for ordinances either to the temple or myself. Someone suggested I try family tree which I have. Whenever I try to use family tree and click on Temple ordinances it goes into adding the many names from nsf I have in the files and then works And works and the program just doesn't respond any more at all and essentially freezes up. I am at a standstill until these problems are fixed. Steve Kelsey

I would encourage people to remember to check pilot.familysearch.org(familysearch indexing) and to get patrons to participate. What a surprising blessing it is! I dig through microfilm to find some ancestors.. only to find that familysearch indexing had them! Previously I had looked at the indexing, and even purchased the VRI.. I found the original microfilm source... two weeks ago.. but to leave the hospital yesterday after another heart attack.. and find the information there is really is a neat feeling! Alan

Karen, I am teaching a FH SS class. Right now we are covering the new "Member's Guide to Temple and Family History" that you can find at NFS. One of the repeating comments they state is to be prayerful about researching your ancestors. The manual comments, in these paraphrased words, that there are many choices to make and the best way is to know the Lord's way. I keep reminding myself and the class to be prayerful about what direction we should be taking in this great work. Nancy Scott Cincinnati, Ohio -----Original Message----- From: lds-ward-consultant-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lds-ward-consultant-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sahara346@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 08:04 AM To: lds-ward-consultant@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LDS-WC] No Name Issues I think there is a happy medium in the research that is done. Sometimes one can spend a lot of time over an extended period of time looking at a wide variety of records for the historic place & time period, and not come up with maiden names for wives, and sometimes even the name at all. Personally, I hate doing Jane or Margaret, or even Mrs. John _____, but I also have seen some early records that seem to indicate that the dad had the baby all by himself because there is no mother listed in the birth record, and the parish record doesn't list their marriage (or in the case of some of the Scandinavian countries, there's four or five men with the same name marrying in the parish in the same time period--so your guess is as good as mine as to which one is the right couple, since none of the birth/christening records you can find list the wife's name). We need to teach our people to be thorough and to be accurate, but there does also come a time that we need to move forward and do what we need to do with what we've been able to find, even though the information is less than perfectly complete. That said, I know that sometimes, if we're willing to use prayer, confirmation of what we suspect in a family can have the verification come. One of my Tennessee families I was able to find in the 1900 census, so I had the Mom's given name. I didn't have her maiden name. The existing county marriage records started in the late Civil War years (probably because they fought up and down the valley and I suspect the courthouse probably got in the way at some point) and this couple would have been married in the late 1850s given what the census said about how long they'd been married. No record in surrounding counties of the marriage. I was allowed to have a special experience with the Spirit testifying as to what her maiden name was, BUT I also replied that while I believed what I was told, I understood that non-members might not accept that as proof--could I get some tangible evidence to collaborate that piece of information please? A week later, I got a packet from Oklahoma in the mail--from the groom's brother's descendants that did indeed confirm what the Spirit had indicated. (The woman in question turned out to be the sister of my own 2nd great grandfather's third wife and married his brother.) So make sure that our people are doing their research with prayer. Was it Brother Brigham that said that if necessary the Lord would send angels to the Temples with the records we needed to complete this work? If that's true, there's more that most of us can do to identify people with what's currently available or becoming available, because MOST of us aren't being handed records of our ancestors when we get to the Temple. So keep researching, and get the ward members researching. Karen PS, that's why it's called research: you search, and then you research. In a message dated 6/11/2009 12:06:00 A.M. Central Daylight Time, sapresley12@gmail.com writes: I have just signed up to this list again after several years of not having it after a computer crash - the fact that this list is still here testifies that the work is going forth and nothing will stop it. To add my 2 cents about partial names, no names, addresses, etc., I go back to my basic training which says in essence that if I was looking through the IGI for ancestors to see if their work had been done, there would be no way I could tell with Mrs. Blank born in USA. The information is so skimpy all too often, that one unintentionally duplicates the effort. I realize that the people we are doing the work for know if their work has been done once, twice or 152 times and as long as they have the work done, that's good. But, we are supposed to be helping patrons to do good research, find sources and document them and take a little longer to find more out about them. We often have sisters come in with hair flying every which way, a dazed, panicked look on their faces because one or two of their teens just now told them they needed names to take to the temple tomorrow morning - early! Now, you and I know that this sister means well, but she doesn't have the time necessary at that moment to do any research, so just so the kids have something to take to the temple to do baptisms for, this kind of skimpy information happens. There is also the Family Reunion coming up and everyone is to take one name of an ancestor to the temple on this reunion week. Not everyone does research, those that know a little are usually the ones that have to come up with the names and in a hurry because everyone forgot to get the names til the last minute. My personal favorite is when a relative does all of the researching and sends the info to another relative so their ward can help them do the temple work. Problem with this is that as a Consultant it is very dicey going if one trys to explain that the research is not satisfactory and the names do not appear to be correct. One card that caused some concern at the temple was a pink card, person listed was boy/surname, born abt 1900, in USA and parents weren't known. Family History is called Family History & not genealogy anymore, I thought, because we are making an effort to find out more about the ancestors that have gone on before us. It's the dash between the birth and death dates that hold all the answers and without some of those answers we aren't richer for the experience of finding out that cancer runs in that side of the family or that I'm an avid gardener because not only was my grandmother, but generations of that line were avid gardeners. In an episode of Ancestors while interviewing the prisoners at the Utah Prison about their work in extracting the Freedman Bank Records, one man found out that he wasn't the only one in his family who was a criminal - he found there were criminals in a couple of generations of ancestors as well. Somehow, that knowledge made him feel better. He found out about some of their dashes. So, the dilemma is this; do we let things slide with as little as possible just so the work gets done, or should we try to encourage and teach research methods so another relative would know the work had been done already and didn't duplicate. I know my answer, but that's just me and the way I think, it doesn't mean that it's the right way. Thank you for letting me voice another opinion on this topic. S Morgan Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************Dell Deals: Don’t miss huge summer savings on popular laptops starting at $449. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221770187x1201425153/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566131%3B37864407%3B i) Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I think there is a happy medium in the research that is done. Sometimes one can spend a lot of time over an extended period of time looking at a wide variety of records for the historic place & time period, and not come up with maiden names for wives, and sometimes even the name at all. Personally, I hate doing Jane or Margaret, or even Mrs. John _____, but I also have seen some early records that seem to indicate that the dad had the baby all by himself because there is no mother listed in the birth record, and the parish record doesn't list their marriage (or in the case of some of the Scandinavian countries, there's four or five men with the same name marrying in the parish in the same time period--so your guess is as good as mine as to which one is the right couple, since none of the birth/christening records you can find list the wife's name). We need to teach our people to be thorough and to be accurate, but there does also come a time that we need to move forward and do what we need to do with what we've been able to find, even though the information is less than perfectly complete. That said, I know that sometimes, if we're willing to use prayer, confirmation of what we suspect in a family can have the verification come. One of my Tennessee families I was able to find in the 1900 census, so I had the Mom's given name. I didn't have her maiden name. The existing county marriage records started in the late Civil War years (probably because they fought up and down the valley and I suspect the courthouse probably got in the way at some point) and this couple would have been married in the late 1850s given what the census said about how long they'd been married. No record in surrounding counties of the marriage. I was allowed to have a special experience with the Spirit testifying as to what her maiden name was, BUT I also replied that while I believed what I was told, I understood that non-members might not accept that as proof--could I get some tangible evidence to collaborate that piece of information please? A week later, I got a packet from Oklahoma in the mail--from the groom's brother's descendants that did indeed confirm what the Spirit had indicated. (The woman in question turned out to be the sister of my own 2nd great grandfather's third wife and married his brother.) So make sure that our people are doing their research with prayer. Was it Brother Brigham that said that if necessary the Lord would send angels to the Temples with the records we needed to complete this work? If that's true, there's more that most of us can do to identify people with what's currently available or becoming available, because MOST of us aren't being handed records of our ancestors when we get to the Temple. So keep researching, and get the ward members researching. Karen PS, that's why it's called research: you search, and then you research. In a message dated 6/11/2009 12:06:00 A.M. Central Daylight Time, sapresley12@gmail.com writes: I have just signed up to this list again after several years of not having it after a computer crash - the fact that this list is still here testifies that the work is going forth and nothing will stop it. To add my 2 cents about partial names, no names, addresses, etc., I go back to my basic training which says in essence that if I was looking through the IGI for ancestors to see if their work had been done, there would be no way I could tell with Mrs. Blank born in USA. The information is so skimpy all too often, that one unintentionally duplicates the effort. I realize that the people we are doing the work for know if their work has been done once, twice or 152 times and as long as they have the work done, that's good. But, we are supposed to be helping patrons to do good research, find sources and document them and take a little longer to find more out about them. We often have sisters come in with hair flying every which way, a dazed, panicked look on their faces because one or two of their teens just now told them they needed names to take to the temple tomorrow morning - early! Now, you and I know that this sister means well, but she doesn't have the time necessary at that moment to do any research, so just so the kids have something to take to the temple to do baptisms for, this kind of skimpy information happens. There is also the Family Reunion coming up and everyone is to take one name of an ancestor to the temple on this reunion week. Not everyone does research, those that know a little are usually the ones that have to come up with the names and in a hurry because everyone forgot to get the names til the last minute. My personal favorite is when a relative does all of the researching and sends the info to another relative so their ward can help them do the temple work. Problem with this is that as a Consultant it is very dicey going if one trys to explain that the research is not satisfactory and the names do not appear to be correct. One card that caused some concern at the temple was a pink card, person listed was boy/surname, born abt 1900, in USA and parents weren't known. Family History is called Family History & not genealogy anymore, I thought, because we are making an effort to find out more about the ancestors that have gone on before us. It's the dash between the birth and death dates that hold all the answers and without some of those answers we aren't richer for the experience of finding out that cancer runs in that side of the family or that I'm an avid gardener because not only was my grandmother, but generations of that line were avid gardeners. In an episode of Ancestors while interviewing the prisoners at the Utah Prison about their work in extracting the Freedman Bank Records, one man found out that he wasn't the only one in his family who was a criminal - he found there were criminals in a couple of generations of ancestors as well. Somehow, that knowledge made him feel better. He found out about some of their dashes. So, the dilemma is this; do we let things slide with as little as possible just so the work gets done, or should we try to encourage and teach research methods so another relative would know the work had been done already and didn't duplicate. I know my answer, but that's just me and the way I think, it doesn't mean that it's the right way. Thank you for letting me voice another opinion on this topic. S Morgan Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************Dell Deals: Don’t miss huge summer savings on popular laptops starting at $449. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221770187x1201425153/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566131%3B37864407%3B i)

Morgan wrote: > I have just signed up to this list again after several years of not > having it after a computer crash - the fact that this list is still > here testifies that the work is going forth and nothing will stop it. > > > So, the dilemma is this; do we let things slide with as little as > possible just so the work gets done, or should we try to encourage > and teach research methods so another relative would know the work > had been done already and didn't duplicate. I know my answer, but > that's just me and the way I think, it doesn't mean that it's the > right way. > > Thank you for letting me voice another opinion on this topic. > > S Morgan Boy are you in for a huge surprise of the shift. The first step, clean up the mess in the nFS. Hunt down every duplicate you can find and merge them. Find every mis-merged you can find and separate them. Ferret out the missed ordinances for the people already in the nFS. Familiarize with the new rules now governing the Temple work. David Samuelsen Salt Lake Temple District, with legs in Bountiful, Draper, Jordan River and soon Oquirrh Mountain districts.

I have just signed up to this list again after several years of not having it after a computer crash - the fact that this list is still here testifies that the work is going forth and nothing will stop it. To add my 2 cents about partial names, no names, addresses, etc., I go back to my basic training which says in essence that if I was looking through the IGI for ancestors to see if their work had been done, there would be no way I could tell with Mrs. Blank born in USA. The information is so skimpy all too often, that one unintentionally duplicates the effort. I realize that the people we are doing the work for know if their work has been done once, twice or 152 times and as long as they have the work done, that's good. But, we are supposed to be helping patrons to do good research, find sources and document them and take a little longer to find more out about them. We often have sisters come in with hair flying every which way, a dazed, panicked look on their faces because one or two of their teens just now told them they needed names to take to the temple tomorrow morning - early! Now, you and I know that this sister means well, but she doesn't have the time necessary at that moment to do any research, so just so the kids have something to take to the temple to do baptisms for, this kind of skimpy information happens. There is also the Family Reunion coming up and everyone is to take one name of an ancestor to the temple on this reunion week. Not everyone does research, those that know a little are usually the ones that have to come up with the names and in a hurry because everyone forgot to get the names til the last minute. My personal favorite is when a relative does all of the researching and sends the info to another relative so their ward can help them do the temple work. Problem with this is that as a Consultant it is very dicey going if one trys to explain that the research is not satisfactory and the names do not appear to be correct. One card that caused some concern at the temple was a pink card, person listed was boy/surname, born abt 1900, in USA and parents weren't known. Family History is called Family History & not genealogy anymore, I thought, because we are making an effort to find out more about the ancestors that have gone on before us. It's the dash between the birth and death dates that hold all the answers and without some of those answers we aren't richer for the experience of finding out that cancer runs in that side of the family or that I'm an avid gardener because not only was my grandmother, but generations of that line were avid gardeners. In an episode of Ancestors while interviewing the prisoners at the Utah Prison about their work in extracting the Freedman Bank Records, one man found out that he wasn't the only one in his family who was a criminal - he found there were criminals in a couple of generations of ancestors as well. Somehow, that knowledge made him feel better. He found out about some of their dashes. So, the dilemma is this; do we let things slide with as little as possible just so the work gets done, or should we try to encourage and teach research methods so another relative would know the work had been done already and didn't duplicate. I know my answer, but that's just me and the way I think, it doesn't mean that it's the right way. Thank you for letting me voice another opinion on this topic. S Morgan

What a hoot! An error that I do see on a lot of people's temple cards (and one thing as consultants we could help with) the names appearing as Mary/A./ instead of Mary A.// This might explain the surname of O. It may not be a big deal, but it causes those names to be alphabetically under A for surname instead of showing no surname. We need to watch where the slashes go when entering names in PAF. Michele In a message dated 6/10/2009 11:41:59 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dcaallen@pacifier.com writes: My husband & I did sealings last night at the Portland Temple, and there were some strange names, possibly done through extraction. There were several who just had a last name of "O" or another letter, although the first and/or middle names were there. The officiator didn't explain it, but perhaps the name was ilegible in the records. Another one, the officiator spelled out the first & middle name, then said the last name. He explained that the first name had several dots preceding it, with the rest spelled out as "fred." The middle name was spelled "Chas." He explained that because of the dots, the name might not have been complete, and "Chas" could have stood for Charles, or something else. So they were told to spell out the names in cases like this. Of course, nothing tops sealing a daughter, "Killer" to her parents "Crowman & Blackeyes." Born in the 1880's in Montana, apparent Native Americans. All in all, it was an interesting night. Alice Allen Oakhurst Ward Family History Consultant Vancouver WA Stake Portland OR Temple District *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 6/10/2009 at 7:52 AM nascott@cinci.rr.com wrote: >David, > >I am curious where you received the Rule #4 from as you don't list any >source. > >What exactly does it mean that the name is not valid? Does that mean that >one cannot perform temple ordinances for the individual? > >If this is a directive from NFS, they should update their User Guide and >give a new rule of how one submits a married woman's name if you do not >know >the given name and maiden name are not known OR state that they are not >allowing us to enter the data in this format. > >I feel that taking away the possibility for women to have their ordinance >work done with Mrs. is unfair. In the past, a woman was so dependent on >her >husband for her identity that there are many instances where one can find >data on the husband to have work done but not the wife. If one uses common >sense and links this individual to another person who does have sufficient >data, then you can have enough information to make the wife unique. > >One of my biggest gripes about junk data is the church extraction programs. >They list a couple with the marriage date and place but no other >information >when you know that they have it on microfilm somewhere. The other >extraction problem is that they will just list the individual's name and it >comes up as a possible match but there is not date and no date can be found >at FamilySearch.org or on the IIGI. I have complained about this that it >is >a waste of bytes and User time but they have just said that the projects >vary in what data they record. I have found for almost every extraction >entry that I come across that it is incomplete. > >Nancy Scott >Cincinnati, Ohio > > Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell’s full line of laptops. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222008777x1201444407/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566094%3B3786435 8%3Bv)

Thanks David. I won't be ready for a while yet to submit these 3 children for sealings. There's a bunch more children in nFS attributed to Jesse & Melvina, and I don't think they belong to this couple. And duplicates to boot. I'm in "search" mode for the moment. Alice Allen Oakhurst Ward Family History Consultant Vancouver WA Stake Portland OR Temple District *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 6/10/2009 at 12:59 PM dsam52@sampubco.com wrote: >https://help.familysearch.org/publishing/781/106565_f.SAL_Member.html >https://help.familysearch.org/publishing/170/100380_f.SAL_Member.html > >These are for those submissions with no names, or no given names. > >These were referred to by support in my case of several un-named infants >who died before they had Catholic rites of baptisms giving them the names. > >The references failed in my case because all of my entries exceeded the >requirements. > >The support called me this morning to give me good news, whatever was >blocking the submissions were cleared to allow the submissions for >sealings. > >W. David Samuelsen > > >Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to >LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

https://help.familysearch.org/publishing/781/106565_f.SAL_Member.html https://help.familysearch.org/publishing/170/100380_f.SAL_Member.html These are for those submissions with no names, or no given names. These were referred to by support in my case of several un-named infants who died before they had Catholic rites of baptisms giving them the names. The references failed in my case because all of my entries exceeded the requirements. The support called me this morning to give me good news, whatever was blocking the submissions were cleared to allow the submissions for sealings. W. David Samuelsen

As to determine Miss or Mr.......when we add it in the temple, it's pretty straight-forward. Pink cards get Miss or Mrs and blue cards get Mr. :-) It seems to me that unless the card says Mrs. Jane Jones, that most of our names (and all temple work) are done in the maiden name as for unmarried females, so we could conclude that using Miss is acceptable. When our matron was discussing it and someone asked about using the inclusive Ms....she replied...oh we would NEVER use that. I chuckled a little. I think that these cultural differences, the way we sometimes unintentionally fracture the pronunciations of names and any other errors of a human nature are immaterial. These folks know who they are and the big computer in the sky gives them credit for having their ordinance work done. And that's what it is all about anyway. We'll do our best down here with the (sometimes lousy) records they left us :-) Michele In a message dated 6/10/2009 6:38:46 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, nascott@cinci.rr.com writes: Another thought I just had on this is if one does it this way then how do you distinguish between, Mrs., Mr., and Miss? Does the software know by the dates of death? **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell’s full line of laptops. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222008777x1201444407/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566094%3B3786435 8%3Bv)

My husband & I did sealings last night at the Portland Temple, and there were some strange names, possibly done through extraction. There were several who just had a last name of "O" or another letter, although the first and/or middle names were there. The officiator didn't explain it, but perhaps the name was ilegible in the records. Another one, the officiator spelled out the first & middle name, then said the last name. He explained that the first name had several dots preceding it, with the rest spelled out as "fred." The middle name was spelled "Chas." He explained that because of the dots, the name might not have been complete, and "Chas" could have stood for Charles, or something else. So they were told to spell out the names in cases like this. Of course, nothing tops sealing a daughter, "Killer" to her parents "Crowman & Blackeyes." Born in the 1880's in Montana, apparent Native Americans. All in all, it was an interesting night. Alice Allen Oakhurst Ward Family History Consultant Vancouver WA Stake Portland OR Temple District *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 6/10/2009 at 7:52 AM nascott@cinci.rr.com wrote: >David, > >I am curious where you received the Rule #4 from as you don't list any >source. > >What exactly does it mean that the name is not valid? Does that mean that >one cannot perform temple ordinances for the individual? > >If this is a directive from NFS, they should update their User Guide and >give a new rule of how one submits a married woman's name if you do not >know >the given name and maiden name are not known OR state that they are not >allowing us to enter the data in this format. > >I feel that taking away the possibility for women to have their ordinance >work done with Mrs. is unfair. In the past, a woman was so dependent on >her >husband for her identity that there are many instances where one can find >data on the husband to have work done but not the wife. If one uses common >sense and links this individual to another person who does have sufficient >data, then you can have enough information to make the wife unique. > >One of my biggest gripes about junk data is the church extraction programs. >They list a couple with the marriage date and place but no other >information >when you know that they have it on microfilm somewhere. The other >extraction problem is that they will just list the individual's name and it >comes up as a possible match but there is not date and no date can be found >at FamilySearch.org or on the IIGI. I have complained about this that it >is >a waste of bytes and User time but they have just said that the projects >vary in what data they record. I have found for almost every extraction >entry that I come across that it is incomplete. > >Nancy Scott >Cincinnati, Ohio > >

I have been half-following this thread, and realized yesterday that my husband has a similar situation in his family. His gg grandparents had triplets who were born and died on the same day. I have a photocopy of their headstone, which reads "Three Infants, two sons & dau. of J & M DEWEESE born & died March 9, 1868." My mother-in-law passed away in 1987, and I have her Book of Remembrance. She apparently did not know about these children at the time she was actively doing her family history work, since they are not included. Temple work for the known children was done in the 1950's, possibly by her but I don't know for sure, I just have dates and one notation of the temple name in her Book of Remembrance. That long ago, the closest temple to us would have been Idaho Falls or Salt Lake. One of the submitters is that of "nmallen" plus a bunch of numbers, which is probably her. Looking at this family in nFS, I see the need for some combining and straightening out of this family, it appears to be a mess. However, there are no children listed as being born in 1868, named or unnamed. I did try a search on just the last name, with the birthdate and place as well as the gender, but there were no matches. So, if I were to enter these children to the family, I'm seeing a variety of ways to do it. If I were to leave the first name blank (since they apparently were not named), just use the last name, gender, birth & death dates and places, would that be the proper way to do it? And seeing as there were two sons, how would I differentiate between #1 and 2 without someone else coming along and combining them? I have seen plenty of opinions, but nothing that is firming itself up in my mind as the right way to do it. I don't want to add any more children to the family until I get the rest of them cleaned up, but there may be three nameless infants of Jesse & Melvina (Beghtol) DeWeese who need to be sealed to their parents, and I'd like to know the proper way to do it. Alice Allen Oakhurst Ward Family History Consultant Vancouver WA Stake Portland OR Temple District

Mary, Another thought I just had on this is if one does it this way then how do you distinguish between, Mrs., Mr., and Miss? Does the software know by the dates of death? Thanks, Nancy Scott Cincinnati, Ohio -----Original Message----- From: lds-ward-consultant-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lds-ward-consultant-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mary S. Scott (Michigan) Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 08:50 AM To: lds-ward-consultant@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LDS-WC] Unnamed Children When submitting temple ordinances for a child without a given name, just leave the name fields blank. The computer at the temple then adds "Miss" or "Mr" as a title (not as a name). It is not necessary to use Miss or Mr for the given names in NFS or PAF. One of the most important things we need to do is add the gender for the baby. The title will then be properly applied to the information. Mary Scott Northville Ward Westland Michigan Stake Detroit Michigan Temple Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Mary, This is not what the NFS User's guide says one should do. I have read through all of the Updates to it this morning and there was no change for the instruction given on Page 154 regarding what to do when a given name is not known. I am very documentation oriented so if you state that you obtained leaving the field blank by reading one of the temple instruction books then I could understand your comments. I am working in the office this Friday at the Columbus Temple and hope to have time enough to look this up to find a guideline. Have you actually been able to submit a name through NFS this way? Thanks, Nancy Scott Cincinnati, Ohio -----Original Message----- From: lds-ward-consultant-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lds-ward-consultant-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mary S. Scott (Michigan) Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 08:50 AM To: lds-ward-consultant@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LDS-WC] Unnamed Children When submitting temple ordinances for a child without a given name, just leave the name fields blank. The computer at the temple then adds "Miss" or "Mr" as a title (not as a name). It is not necessary to use Miss or Mr for the given names in NFS or PAF. One of the most important things we need to do is add the gender for the baby. The title will then be properly applied to the information. Mary Scott Northville Ward Westland Michigan Stake Detroit Michigan Temple Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Under the old TempleReady, Mr. or Miss would be added to our PAF submitted names. However, under NFS, unless programming has changed from the one time it happened to me, it did not add Miss to a baby that I left with only the last name. When we download names at our Temple, we in the office go through all of them and write in Miss or Mr. to the people who only have a last name. (We also white out (with blue or yellow!) the Jr.s that show up in the middle of names and write them on the end - for ease of saying them.) Megan Smith Las Vegas Nevada Temple District ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary S. Scott (Michigan)" <mscscott28@yahoo.com> To: <lds-ward-consultant@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 5:50 AM Subject: Re: [LDS-WC] Unnamed Children > When submitting temple ordinances for a child without a given name, just > leave the name fields blank. > > The computer at the temple then adds "Miss" or "Mr" as a title (not as a > name). > > It is not necessary to use Miss or Mr for the given names in NFS or PAF. > > One of the most important things we need to do is add the gender for the > baby. The title will then be properly applied to the information. > > Mary Scott > Northville Ward > Westland Michigan Stake > > Detroit Michigan Temple > > > > > Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to > LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

David, I am curious where you received the Rule #4 from as you don't list any source. What exactly does it mean that the name is not valid? Does that mean that one cannot perform temple ordinances for the individual? If this is a directive from NFS, they should update their User Guide and give a new rule of how one submits a married woman's name if you do not know the given name and maiden name are not known OR state that they are not allowing us to enter the data in this format. I feel that taking away the possibility for women to have their ordinance work done with Mrs. is unfair. In the past, a woman was so dependent on her husband for her identity that there are many instances where one can find data on the husband to have work done but not the wife. If one uses common sense and links this individual to another person who does have sufficient data, then you can have enough information to make the wife unique. One of my biggest gripes about junk data is the church extraction programs. They list a couple with the marriage date and place but no other information when you know that they have it on microfilm somewhere. The other extraction problem is that they will just list the individual's name and it comes up as a possible match but there is not date and no date can be found at FamilySearch.org or on the IIGI. I have complained about this that it is a waste of bytes and User time but they have just said that the projects vary in what data they record. I have found for almost every extraction entry that I come across that it is incomplete. Nancy Scott Cincinnati, Ohio -----Original Message----- From: lds-ward-consultant-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lds-ward-consultant-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of W. David Samuelsen Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:06 AM To: lds-ward-consultant@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LDS-WC] Unnamed Children Not according to the rules I received this afternoon. Here's the section about this.... #4 rule Checks invalid name in any piece of a name. If any of the following names appear in any of the pieces of a name, the name is not valid: Living, unknown, unk, body, anan, anonym, anonymous, dead, data, deceased, died, entry, information, his, her, listed, married, misc, name, never, not, no issue, not known, not named, other, record, records, unnamed, yes, no, ancestor, ancester, woman, women, man, men, female, male, live, Mr., Mrs., Miss David Samuelsen amy griffin wrote: > I work at the Mesa, AZ Temple and we have been instructed to use Miss or Mr. when there is no given first name. I have seen this happen a few times. I haven't done it in nFS but some of the cards I have seen came from the Temple. As Carrie stated, as long ass the sex of the child, the parents and the dates are identified, it should go through. > > Amy > Please send the one word message SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LDS-WARD-CONSULTANT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

When submitting temple ordinances for a child without a given name, just leave the name fields blank. The computer at the temple then adds "Miss" or "Mr" as a title (not as a name). It is not necessary to use Miss or Mr for the given names in NFS or PAF. One of the most important things we need to do is add the gender for the baby. The title will then be properly applied to the information. Mary Scott Northville Ward Westland Michigan Stake Detroit Michigan Temple

Insane! it will accept tochter and sohn as given names! It accepted the first one after I changed "daughter" to "tochter" Yes, the SMALL letter. David Samuelsen