In my research into my husband's family, I have found several of his ancestors who had relationships with Free women of color and they all seemed to be consensual. One such person was Jean Baptiste DeLisle Sarpy - his daughter from his relationship was Blessed Henriette DeLille. Another ancestor had a very public relationship with a woman he met in Cuba and brought to New Orleans. They had 8 children. One of those children was involved in a very well known court case where she attempted to prove in court she was white. I think there was a song made up about her. I think once again New Orleans is very different from the rest of the south. Race relations were so much more complicated and involved (and still are!). Another ancestor, Judge Lucien Adams, who was accused of murdering blacks during race riots in New Orleans, was also seen having coffee every morning with Marie Laveau and was thought to have a very close relationship with her. I think race in New Orleans and Louisiana is such an interesting topic. Leslie Adams "Be watchful, stand firm in your faith, be courageous, be strong. Let all that you do be done in love." (1 Cor 16:13) >________________________________ > From: "laorlean-request@rootsweb.com" <laorlean-request@rootsweb.com> >To: laorlean@rootsweb.com >Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 11:12 AM >Subject: LAORLEAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 112 > > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: DNA ethnicity test (Alexa) > 2. Re: DNA ethnicity test (Alexa) > 3. Re: Fold3 (jans884@bellsouth.net) > 4. Fold 3 (Barbara Munson) > 5. Re: Fold 3 (gjreiner) > 6. Michelle Obama's ancesters (Carolyn Long) > 7. Re: Michelle Obama's ancesters (Judy Vinson) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:18:35 -0700 (PDT) >From: Alexa <kaseysworld2@yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test >To: laorlean@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: > <1340187515.83089.YahooMailClassic@web120202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >Out of Africa, eh?? Well, duh!? Right? > >Now if they had said, "your ancestors were from the Garden of Eden, and this is exactly where it was (see enclosed map)", they would really be telling us something.? Correct? > >150,000 years ago!?? hmmmm > > >Alexa >Genealogy research since 1974 > >Ancestral hauntings - I ain't afraid-a no ghosts... > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Sally Viada >Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 1:16 PM >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test > >Well, I did the maternal line a couple of years ago through Ancestry.? I >know I have Spanish on my mother's line back to Graciana Solis, >born abt 1751 in Cuba. Her grandmother died in Cuba abt 1712. So I thought >it was safe to assume they were from Spain. >Graciana married Juan Ronquillo. I also come from Graciana's brother Joseph >Solis. > >The results came back that I came out of Africa abt 150,000 years ago. >Thought everyone knew this.? Did I miss something in >reading the results?? > >Sally > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:36:07 -0700 (PDT) >From: Alexa <kaseysworld2@yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test >To: laorlean@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: > <1340188567.14777.YahooMailClassic@web120203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >I empathize about the 40 years of research and can't crack the brickwall.? I have one of those lines, too.? I've been able to get back only to about 1800 on my maternal grandfather's lines.? It took 33 years before I had a breakthrough and was able to discover family information back to the early 19th century.? Four years later, I'm still searching for more and haven't been able to go earlier. > >Luckily on all my other lines, the families had been in North America about four hundred years (Acadian-French, English) and earlier (Huron Indians), with the Spanish and Germans in between, so it was easy to track them. > >I've also wondered if DNA testing would help track that grandfather's ancestors or heritage? but I've been reluctant to ask my male cousins to help and be tested. > > >Alexa >Genealogy research since 1974 > >Ancestral hauntings - I ain't afraid-a no ghosts... > > > >--- On Tue, 6/19/12, Shelia Salomone <salomos@comcast.net> wrote: > >From: Shelia Salomone <salomos@comcast.net> >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test >To: laorlean@rootsweb.com, "'Sally Viada'" <sgvjada@yahoo.com> >Date: Tuesday, June 19, 2012, 7:21 PM > >What if you have a brick wall that has not been cracked for 40+ years of >research through numerous family members? Would DNA testing help since there >is a mixture of foreigner ancestors and it is my great great grandparents? >No amount of research has cracked it yet! > >And doesn't ancestry.co have all of the records you mention that are on >Fold3? I have seen all these records mentioned already on ancestry.com. > >Thanks, >Shelia > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:52:39 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) >From: "jans884@bellsouth.net" <jans884@bellsouth.net> >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Fold3 >To: "LAOrleans" <laorlean@rootsweb.com> >Message-ID: <4FE1AB77.000001.03192@JAN-PC> >Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Thanks for the info all, really appreciate it. > >Jan S - Orlando, FL > > > > >-------Original Message------- > >From: Norm Hellmers >Date: 06/19/12 16:15:58 >To: laorlean@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Fold3 > >Carol et al, > >Fold3 also has a good collection of New Orleans city directories. Go here: >http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.ancestry >com/~neworleans/nola_sources/city_directories/ >and scroll down to "City directories available for a fee online" and check >out what Fold3 has. > > >To access the entire Fold3 site: >http://www.fold3.com/ > >Norm > > > >________________________________ > From: Carol Mills <siess@bellsouth.net> >To: laorlean@rootsweb.com >Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:20 PM >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] LAORLEAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 > >I have had Fold3 which used to be <footnote.com> for several years now. I >think it is worth it. Lots of military records including Confederate >civilians who sold commodities and supplies to the army. Besides >Ancestry.com, of course, genealogybank.com is my second favorite site, but >this comes in as a solid third. > >Carol Mills > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >------------------------------ > >Message: 4 >Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:40:10 -0700 (PDT) >From: Barbara Munson <munsonfly@yahoo.com> >Subject: [LAORLEAN] Fold 3 >To: Orleans List <LAORLEAN@rootsweb.com> >Message-ID: > <1340192410.33206.YahooMailNeo@web164505.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >For those who haven't tried Fold 3 (like me), there is a 7-day free trial. > >Also, for Sally (I think?) who asked if this same information is available on Ancestry - Some military information is no longer available on Ancestry; it's been moved over to Fold 3. > >Barbara > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 5 >Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:59:35 -0400 >From: gjreiner <gjreiner@earthlink.net> >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Fold 3 >To: Barbara Munson <munsonfly@yahoo.com>, laorlean@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <4FE1C937.1070500@earthlink.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Hi, I am just jumping in to tell you all how great familysearch.org >really is. I have a gggrandfather who was in the Civil War (Confederate) >and I searched for years trying to find what I could, well with >familysearch. I found sooo much, I was actually able to find his prison >records at Camp Chase, that was a great find, also much more info than I >ever was able to find, also have 2 gguncles also served in Civil War >found everything! When you get to the site make sure you sign in, you >will get so much more. Also genealogybank.com is just as good, their >newspaper search is great, I found newspaper articles that I have never >found before and what more can I say about Ancestry.com, that is my >favorite, they don't always have what I search for but I have built my >entire ancestry on them. Some of these sites may cost a little but it >sure is worth it. > >Doris > > > > > >On 6/20/2012 7:40 AM, Barbara Munson wrote: >> For those who haven't tried Fold 3 (like me), there is a 7-day free trial. >> >> Also, for Sally (I think?) who asked if this same information is available on Ancestry - Some military information is no longer available on Ancestry; it's been moved over to Fold 3. >> >> Barbara >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 6 >Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:15:29 -0400 >From: "Carolyn Long" <carolynlong@earthlink.net> >Subject: [LAORLEAN] Michelle Obama's ancesters >To: <LAORLEAN@rootsweb.com>, "Cate Schweitzer-Toepfer" > <voiceofshe@hotmail.com> >Message-ID: <4509809692C94C838CB9B9E4646EA0B8@D2LSGTG1> >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > >Thanks for the link, Cate, to the article by genealogist Megan Smolenyak. >I've been reading this discussion of Mrs. Obama's white ancestors with >interest. A Google search for Dolphus Shields turned up anoher article, "DNA >Uncovers Michelle Obama's White, Slave Master Ancestry," on a site called >"Madame Noire." In this article and others, the assumption is that the >enslaved mother, Malvinia, was raped by Charles Shields, the son of her >owner: "No African American would be surprised to learn that he or she has >white ancestors given the history of slave raping in this country." Dolphus >was born in 1860, and Malvinia, presumably after she was freed by the >emancipation proclamation, had other biracial children. The article doesn't >say whether these children were also fathered by Shields. The article goes >on to ridicule Aliene Shields, a white descendant of the Shileds family: >"Citing the fact that Melvina bore several more biracial children, Aliene >Shields told the New York Times: 'To me, it's an obvious love story that was >hard for the South to accept back then." The writer of the article comments: >"That's one sugar-coated way to look at it." > >The person writing this obviously doesn't know anything about Orleans >Parish, where such relationships were often consentual and one assumes based >on affection and mutual benefit. True, white men usually cohabited with free >women of color, not slaves, but when the woman WAS enslaved the owner at >aleast sometimes freed her and their biracial children and they continued to >live together as a family. Greg Osborn at NOPL is compiling a database of >biracial families and so far has over 500. In my research on the >Laveau-Glapion-Legendre family and the Macarty family, I've also found many >examples. > >I'd be interested in what the rest of you think about this. > >Carolyn Long > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 7 >Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:12:37 -0500 >From: "Judy Vinson" <jgvinson@swbell.net> >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Michelle Obama's ancesters >To: "Carolyn Long" <carolynlong@earthlink.net>, > <laorlean@rootsweb.com> >Message-ID: <904704F5AB3E47B3B46E2F697509D9D0@JudyPC> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >I enjoyed the article as well and am an avid watcher of the various genealogy TV programs. > >I would suppose that the vast majority of the master/slave relationships were based on, if not actual rape, at least on coercion just as many of the master/white servant relationships were. This is not to say that others were not based on affection and were entered into freely. > >You are right in that the French Catholic "relationships" were often very different, especially where free woman of color were involved. > >I know quite a bit about 3 such relationships in my immediate family, two beginning in St. Dominigue and continuing in New Orleans between French men and free women of color and one in Mississippi/Alabama between a New Orleans French man and a free woman of color. All three were true marriages in all but name and lasted until the death of the male partner. Another relationship in a related line was between a foreign national in New Orleans and a woman who was his slave, but who was freed when she became pregnant and of course all of the children were born free. > >Would love to see the names in Greg's database. Would that be possible? > >Judy Vinson > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Carolyn Long > To: LAORLEAN@rootsweb.com ; Cate Schweitzer-Toepfer > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:15 AM > Subject: [LAORLEAN] Michelle Obama's ancesters > > > Thanks for the link, Cate, to the article by genealogist Megan Smolenyak. > I've been reading this discussion of Mrs. Obama's white ancestors with > interest. A Google search for Dolphus Shields turned up anoher article, "DNA > Uncovers Michelle Obama's White, Slave Master Ancestry," on a site called > "Madame Noire." In this article and others, the assumption is that the > enslaved mother, Malvinia, was raped by Charles Shields, the son of her > owner: "No African American would be surprised to learn that he or she has > white ancestors given the history of slave raping in this country." Dolphus > was born in 1860, and Malvinia, presumably after she was freed by the > emancipation proclamation, had other biracial children. The article doesn't > say whether these children were also fathered by Shields. The article goes > on to ridicule Aliene Shields, a white descendant of the Shileds family: > "Citing the fact that Melvina bore several more biracial children, Aliene > Shields told the New York Times: 'To me, it's an obvious love story that was > hard for the South to accept back then." The writer of the article comments: > "That's one sugar-coated way to look at it." > > The person writing this obviously doesn't know anything about Orleans > Parish, where such relationships were often consentual and one assumes based > on affection and mutual benefit. True, white men usually cohabited with free > women of color, not slaves, but when the woman WAS enslaved the owner at > aleast sometimes freed her and their biracial children and they continued to > live together as a family. Greg Osborn at NOPL is compiling a database of > biracial families and so far has over 500. In my research on the > Laveau-Glapion-Legendre family and the Macarty family, I've also found many > examples. > > I'd be interested in what the rest of you think about this. > > Carolyn Long > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >------------------------------ > >To contact the LAORLEAN list administrator, send an email to >LAORLEAN-admin@rootsweb.com. > >To post a message to the LAORLEAN mailing list, send an email to LAORLEAN@rootsweb.com. > >__________________________________________________________ >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com >with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >email with no additional text. > > >End of LAORLEAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 112 >**************************************** > > >