Hi Kathy, You have discovered the most common synonym for genealogy --- the word "perplexed"! Most of us have many bouts of "perplexation" in our research. You need to look at maps of Europe at the time of your investigation. Germany didn't really even exist then. It was a bunch of small political subdivisions (Konigreich, Herzogtum, etc.) which regularly fought with one another for territory. So one day someone could be Prussian, tomorrow Polish, etc and if they were from the "bach" country they may have been 10 "sort of nationalities" before even knowing something had changed. Or maybe the change is why they left. My surname is SCHWEITZER, which roughly means "shepard" or "herder" or someone from Switzerland. That g-g father was from Althornbach in Bavaria which is in now southern Germany, but maybe then it was part of Switzerland. He was a member of one of the New Orleans German singing societies --- maybe he could yodel, but I didn't inherit his talent<g>. Le Havre in what is now the French department of Normandy was a big emigration port for Germanic people who were leaving to come to the US around the time of your ancestors and mine as well (my g-g parents married in NO in 1851 and ). That was when the political upheavals were swelling among the kings, princes, dukes, etc. Many left for the US just in time for Civil War conscription of themselves or their sons , but my take on that is for another day. Just one more note on the "but they were from...." question. The oral history of the French slice of my family pie, according to my g-mother (I was 13 when she died) who married the Frenchman against her parents wishes, described them as being from Alsace-Lorraine (the sometimes French - sometimes German part of southern France/Germany). They were not, she assured me, "cajuns". Well, grandma either misunderstood or misrepresented her husbands heritage. After all he was born and raised in Thibodaux, LA which is in Lafourche parish (county) the heartland of the Acadians who repatriated to North America and didn't move to New Orleans until he was nearly 18. And his mother was "cajun" through and through. Her surname was Dugas and her 4th g-grandfather was one of the 15 original settlers in Lafourche according to the first census taken there. Hope I've encouraged rather than confounded you in your family history pursuits. I've been at this since 1984, and others much, much longer. When family members ask when I'll be finished, I tell them I'll still be looking when I'm on the wrong side of the mud and if they destroy my work, I'll come back to pinch their toes and tell them what I found! -------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathy Cochran" <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 6:06 PM To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Jacob Born/Wilhelmina Rice Marriage Aug 3 OR 5,1854 New Orleans, Orleans Parish, LA > Thank you Jan, for all the info. Yes, my Great-Great-Grandparents were > Jacob > Born and Mena Rice. I too am fascinated with reference to the 1833 > Harriet > & Jesse Ship from Le Havre, but it says they were from Switzerland, not > Germany. And there I have become perplexed. > > I also have been unable to find anywhere where Mena's father, Henry > Augustus > Rice died. He was in business in New Orleans with Jacob, his son-in-law, > under the name The Rice-Born Hardware Company, Ltd. Listed in the New > Orleans City Directory in 1890-1891 (Jacob died 2/1/1889) it stated Henry > Rice and Estate of Jacob Born, leading me to believe that Henry was still > alive in 1890. Any clues? > > Thanks, Kathy > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Jan Strickland > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 12:01 PM > To: LAOrleans > Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Jacob Born/Wilhelmina Rice Marriage Aug 3 OR 5, > 1854 > New Orleans, Orleans Parish, LA > > First, Kathy welcome to the list. This is the greatest group for New > Orleans research that there is. > > My GGgrandparents were also married in the Lafayette Presbyterian Church > (sometimes known as the Fulton Street Church). > > Someone made a trip to one of the LDS libraries and found the record, but > the copy made from the microfilm was just too faint to read. But that is > your best bet, go to any LDS library and tell them what you are looking > for. > They can get the film from the vault. > > In the FHL records I find Jacob Borne married Mina Rice on 3 Aug 1854, so > I > assume that is your GGgrandparents > > In the birth records on our site, I found the following Frank Beauregard > Born - dob: 10/24/1861 Edward Augustus Born - dob: 8/14/1855 Jacob Born - > dob: 7/18/1874 Ella Rovina Born - dob: 2/23/1866 Laura Edna Born - dob: > 12/11/1863 Minnie Lee Born - 4/1/1868 Wallace Rice Born - 4/5/1879 Henry > Howard Born - 12/18/1857 > > You can go to the site: http://files.usgwarchives > net/la/orleans/vitals/births/index/nobibobq.txt and get the Vol & Pg # > and > get copies of the original records from the Louisiana Archives in Baton > Rouge, LA > > I also found Jacob and "Mena" and their children and Mina's mother, > Catherine, and a brother, George Rice in the 1880 census in New Orleans, > LA > He was indeed born in Germany and she was born in Ohio. > > A Jacob Born (b 1828) came to the US on 23 Aug 1833 from Le Harve, France > aboard the Harriet and Jesse, with parents and 5 siblings. > > Hope this helps. Let me know if I can be of further help. > > Jan S - Orlando, FL > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Kathy Cochran > Date: 9/29/2010 12:20:02 PM > To: [email protected] > Cc: 'gbishida'; [email protected] > Subject: [LAORLEAN] Jacob Born/Wilhelmina Rice Marriage Aug 3 OR 5,1854 > New > Orleans, Orleans Parish, LA > > Hello, I am new to this list, and would love some assistance. My > GG-grandfather, Jacob Born was born in Germany, in some censuses it says > Baden, on his Naturalization papers it says Hesse Darmstadt. > > > > His 1st son, my G-grandfather, was Edward Augustus Born, b 7 August 1855. > > > > Both the marriage and the baptism occurred at the Lafayette Presbyterian > Church (sometimes known as the Fulton Street Church) in Orleans Parish, > New > Orleans. The church burned down in 1860, but the records were saved, > and > the LDS has put them on film. > > > > I am hoping to be able to locate church records for either of the two > events, either the marriage or the baptism which occurred at the Lafayette > Presbyterian Church (sometimes known as the Fulton Street Church) that > would > state the town or village in Germany where Jacob was born. > > > > His father's Americanized name was John, he was probably Johannes in > Germany, and early on. > > > > Jacob's naturalization papers say that they came over in 1836, but no > ship's > name or port was listed, so I am wondering if even the year is correct. > (It is very possible that they landed 1st in Ohio, because that is where > Mena was born, and so maybe they met there, but I haven't been able to > ascertain this as yet.) > > > > So, from what I have learned, this is what I need: > > > > > > FHL US/CAN Film 1311102 Item 2 I believe the whole film is from the > Lafayette Presbyterian Church, in Orleans Parish. > > > > This has Marriages 1843 - 1871 (I am looking for Aug 3 OR 5, 1854) > Jacob > and Mena Born > > > > This has Baptisms 1841-1855 (My G-grandfather Edward Augustus Born) was > born Aug 7, 1855, but I don't have a baptismal date for him. > > > > > > Does anyone out there have access to these records? > > > > I would be thrilled, to say the least, if anyone can share this > information. > > > > Kindest regards in advance, > > > > > > Kathy Cochran > > San Andreas, CA > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Let me add to what Cate has said. My Baumgartner's came through La Harve from Alsace-Lorraine according to my Grandfather, per his mother and father. My grandfather said Alsace-Lorraine was the german part of Switzerland". Whatever that means. My GGgrandfather was sometimes Swiss, sometimes German who married a lady born in Habana, Cuba. They came to NOLA in the early 1800's, he in 1836, she in 1830-31. The census records mostly said Switzerland and Cuba. So that's what I use. Enjoy the search, and I, too, will search until I can search no more and have already told my husband and my daughter what to do with all these books, records, notebooks, etc, that continue to clutter my little office. Enjoy the search Jan Baumgartner Strickland - Orlando, FL -------Original Message------- From: Cate Schweitzer-Toepfer Date: 9/30/2010 4:05:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Jacob Born/Wilhelmina Rice Marriage Aug 3 OR 5,1854 New Orleans, Orleans Parish, LA Hi Kathy, You have discovered the most common synonym for genealogy --- the word "perplexed"! Most of us have many bouts of "perplexation" in our research. You need to look at maps of Europe at the time of your investigation. Germany didn't really even exist then. It was a bunch of small political subdivisions (Konigreich, Herzogtum, etc.) which regularly fought with one another for territory. So one day someone could be Prussian, tomorrow Polish, etc and if they were from the "bach" country they may have been 10 "sort of nationalities" before even knowing something had changed. Or maybe the change is why they left. My surname is SCHWEITZER, which roughly means "shepard" or "herder" or someone from Switzerland. That g-g father was from Althornbach in Bavaria which is in now southern Germany, but maybe then it was part of Switzerland. He was a member of one of the New Orleans German singing societies --- maybe he could yodel, but I didn't inherit his talent<g>. ..........................................................................

Jan and all, I have been trying to figure out where my great-grandfather, Hermann E. Lehmann born 1805 in Berlin, Prussia (according to tombstone at St. Louis #3 cemetery.......where he may have caught the ship out of Prussia/Germany in about 1835. He shows up in New Orleans with Philippe Cioffi at a musical concert. He is listed in city directory as a musician and "played at soirees". I have looked at a CD that has immigrants to New Orleans from Germany with no luck. A reply from the William's Research Center said that he most likely came through New York as they could not find him on what records they had. Does anyone know what port in Germany that he most likely would have embarked from? Does anyone have German ancestors who came to New Orleans around 1805? I am wondering what ...historically...was going on about then in Germany to prompt them to come to America at that time. Any incite appreciated. Helen Lehmann Smith Waco, TX -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jan Strickland" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 3:57 PM To: "LAOrleans" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Jacob Born/Wilhelmina Rice Marriage Aug 3 OR 5,1854 New Orleans, Orleans Parish, LA > Let me add to what Cate has said. My Baumgartner's came through La Harve > from Alsace-Lorraine according to my Grandfather, > per his mother and father. My grandfather said Alsace-Lorraine was the > german part of Switzerland". Whatever that means. > > My GGgrandfather was sometimes Swiss, sometimes German who married a lady > born in Habana, Cuba. They came to NOLA in > the early 1800's, he in 1836, she in 1830-31. The census records mostly > said Switzerland and Cuba. So that's what I use. > > Enjoy the search, and I, too, will search until I can search no more and > have already told my husband and my daughter what to > do with all these books, records, notebooks, etc, that continue to clutter > my little office. > > Enjoy the search > > Jan Baumgartner Strickland - Orlando, FL > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Cate Schweitzer-Toepfer > Date: 9/30/2010 4:05:46 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Jacob Born/Wilhelmina Rice Marriage Aug 3 OR > 5,1854 > New Orleans, Orleans Parish, LA > > Hi Kathy, > You have discovered the most common synonym for genealogy --- the word > "perplexed"! Most of us have many bouts of "perplexation" in our > research. > > You need to look at maps of Europe at the time of your investigation. > Germany didn't really even exist then. It was a bunch of small political > subdivisions (Konigreich, Herzogtum, etc.) which regularly fought with one > another for territory. So one day someone could be Prussian, tomorrow > Polish, etc and if they were from the "bach" country they may have been 10 > "sort of nationalities" before even knowing something had changed. Or > maybe > the change is why they left. > > My surname is SCHWEITZER, which roughly means "shepard" or "herder" or > someone from Switzerland. That g-g father was from Althornbach in > Bavaria > which is in now southern Germany, but maybe then it was part of > Switzerland. > He was a member of one of the New Orleans German singing societies --- > maybe > he could yodel, but I didn't inherit his talent<g>. > > .......................................................................... > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

My German ancestors all seem to have embarked at LeHavre, France & came through the Port of New Orleans. Danna Acker Mandeville, LA -----Original Message----- From: Helen Smith <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, Oct 2, 2010 10:51 am Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Jacob Born/Wilhelmina Rice Marriage Aug 3 OR 5, 1854 New Orleans, Orleans Parish, LA Jan and all, have been trying to figure out where my great-grandfather, Hermann E. ehmann born 1805 in Berlin, Prussia (according to tombstone at St. Louis #3 emetery.......where he may have caught the ship out of Prussia/Germany in bout 1835. He shows up in New Orleans with Philippe Cioffi at a musical oncert. He is listed in city directory as a musician and "played at oirees". I have looked at a CD that has immigrants to New Orleans from ermany with no luck. A reply from the William's Research Center said that e most likely came through New York as they could not find him on what ecords they had. Does anyone know what port in Germany that he most likely would have mbarked from? Does anyone have German ancestors who came to New Orleans round 1805? I am wondering what ...historically...was going on about then n Germany to prompt them to come to America at that time. Any incite appreciated. Helen Lehmann Smith aco, TX -------------------------------------------------- rom: "Jan Strickland" <[email protected]> ent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 3:57 PM o: "LAOrleans" <[email protected]> ubject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Jacob Born/Wilhelmina Rice Marriage Aug 3 OR 5,1854 ew Orleans, Orleans Parish, LA > Let me add to what Cate has said. My Baumgartner's came through La Harve from Alsace-Lorraine according to my Grandfather, per his mother and father. My grandfather said Alsace-Lorraine was the german part of Switzerland". Whatever that means. My GGgrandfather was sometimes Swiss, sometimes German who married a lady born in Habana, Cuba. They came to NOLA in the early 1800's, he in 1836, she in 1830-31. The census records mostly said Switzerland and Cuba. So that's what I use. Enjoy the search, and I, too, will search until I can search no more and have already told my husband and my daughter what to do with all these books, records, notebooks, etc, that continue to clutter my little office. Enjoy the search Jan Baumgartner Strickland - Orlando, FL -------Original Message------- From: Cate Schweitzer-Toepfer Date: 9/30/2010 4:05:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Jacob Born/Wilhelmina Rice Marriage Aug 3 OR 5,1854 New Orleans, Orleans Parish, LA Hi Kathy, You have discovered the most common synonym for genealogy --- the word "perplexed"! Most of us have many bouts of "perplexation" in our research. You need to look at maps of Europe at the time of your investigation. Germany didn't really even exist then. It was a bunch of small political subdivisions (Konigreich, Herzogtum, etc.) which regularly fought with one another for territory. So one day someone could be Prussian, tomorrow Polish, etc and if they were from the "bach" country they may have been 10 "sort of nationalities" before even knowing something had changed. Or maybe the change is why they left. My surname is SCHWEITZER, which roughly means "shepard" or "herder" or someone from Switzerland. That g-g father was from Althornbach in Bavaria which is in now southern Germany, but maybe then it was part of Switzerland. He was a member of one of the New Orleans German singing societies --- maybe he could yodel, but I didn't inherit his talent<g>. .......................................................................... ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Thank you Cate, for your very thoughtful analysis, and sharing of facts. So, when I found the 1833 passenger list from Le Havre to New York, and possibly my Born family, even though it stated that they were from Switzerland, then perhaps it really was them after-all, couldn't it be????? -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cate Schweitzer-Toepfer Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 1:05 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Jacob Born/Wilhelmina Rice Marriage Aug 3 OR 5, 1854 New Orleans, Orleans Parish, LA Hi Kathy, You have discovered the most common synonym for genealogy --- the word "perplexed"! Most of us have many bouts of "perplexation" in our research. You need to look at maps of Europe at the time of your investigation. Germany didn't really even exist then. It was a bunch of small political subdivisions (Konigreich, Herzogtum, etc.) which regularly fought with one another for territory. So one day someone could be Prussian, tomorrow Polish, etc and if they were from the "bach" country they may have been 10 "sort of nationalities" before even knowing something had changed. Or maybe the change is why they left. My surname is SCHWEITZER, which roughly means "shepard" or "herder" or someone from Switzerland. That g-g father was from Althornbach in Bavaria which is in now southern Germany, but maybe then it was part of Switzerland. He was a member of one of the New Orleans German singing societies --- maybe he could yodel, but I didn't inherit his talent<g>. Le Havre is what is now the French department of Normandy was a big emigration port for Germanic people who were leaving to come to the US around the time of your ancestors and mine as well (my g-g parents married in NO in 1851 and ). That was when the political upheavals were swelling among the kings, princes, dukes, etc. Many left for the US just in time for Civil War conscription of themselves or their sons , but my take on that is for another day. Just one more note on the "but they were from...." question. The oral history of the French slice of my family pie, according to my g-mother (I was 13 when she died) who married the Frenchman against her parents wishes, described them as being from Alsace-Lorraine (the sometimes French - sometimes German part of southern France/Germany). They were not, she assured me, "cajuns". Well, grandma either misunderstood or misrepresented her husbands heritage. After all he was born and raised in Thibodaux, LA which is in Lafourche parish (county) the heartland of the Acadians who repatriated to North America and didn't move to New Orleans until he was nearly 18. And his mother was "cajun" through and through. Her surname was Dugas and her 4th g-grandfather was one of the 15 original settlers in Lafourche according to the first census taken there. Hope I've encouraged rather than confounded you in your family history pursuits. I've been at this since 1984, and others much, much longer. When family members ask when I'll be finished, I tell them I'll still be looking when I'm on the wrong side of the mud and if they destroy my work, I'll come back to pinch their toes and tell them what I found! -------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathy Cochran" <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 6:06 PM To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Jacob Born/Wilhelmina Rice Marriage Aug 3 OR 5,1854 New Orleans, Orleans Parish, LA > Thank you Jan, for all the info. Yes, my Great-Great-Grandparents were > Jacob Born and Mena Rice. I too am fascinated with reference to the > 1833 Harriet & Jesse Ship from Le Havre, but it says they were from > Switzerland, not Germany. And there I have become perplexed. > > I also have been unable to find anywhere where Mena's father, Henry > Augustus Rice died. He was in business in New Orleans with Jacob, his > son-in-law, under the name The Rice-Born Hardware Company, Ltd. > Listed in the New Orleans City Directory in 1890-1891 (Jacob died > 2/1/1889) it stated Henry Rice and Estate of Jacob Born, leading me to > believe that Henry was still alive in 1890. Any clues? > > Thanks, Kathy > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Jan Strickland > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 12:01 PM > To: LAOrleans > Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Jacob Born/Wilhelmina Rice Marriage Aug 3 OR > 5, > 1854 > New Orleans, Orleans Parish, LA > > First, Kathy welcome to the list. This is the greatest group for New > Orleans research that there is. > > My GGgrandparents were also married in the Lafayette Presbyterian > Church (sometimes known as the Fulton Street Church). > > Someone made a trip to one of the LDS libraries and found the record, > but the copy made from the microfilm was just too faint to read. But > that is your best bet, go to any LDS library and tell them what you > are looking for. > They can get the film from the vault. > > In the FHL records I find Jacob Borne married Mina Rice on 3 Aug 1854, > so I assume that is your GGgrandparents > > In the birth records on our site, I found the following Frank > Beauregard Born - dob: 10/24/1861 Edward Augustus Born - dob: > 8/14/1855 Jacob Born - > dob: 7/18/1874 Ella Rovina Born - dob: 2/23/1866 Laura Edna Born - dob: > 12/11/1863 Minnie Lee Born - 4/1/1868 Wallace Rice Born - 4/5/1879 > Henry Howard Born - 12/18/1857 > > You can go to the site: http://files.usgwarchives > net/la/orleans/vitals/births/index/nobibobq.txt and get the Vol & Pg > # and get copies of the original records from the Louisiana Archives > in Baton Rouge, LA > > I also found Jacob and "Mena" and their children and Mina's mother, > Catherine, and a brother, George Rice in the 1880 census in New > Orleans, LA He was indeed born in Germany and she was born in Ohio. > > A Jacob Born (b 1828) came to the US on 23 Aug 1833 from Le Harve, > France aboard the Harriet and Jesse, with parents and 5 siblings. > > Hope this helps. Let me know if I can be of further help. > > Jan S - Orlando, FL > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Kathy Cochran > Date: 9/29/2010 12:20:02 PM > To: [email protected] > Cc: 'gbishida'; [email protected] > Subject: [LAORLEAN] Jacob Born/Wilhelmina Rice Marriage Aug 3 OR > 5,1854 New Orleans, Orleans Parish, LA > > Hello, I am new to this list, and would love some assistance. My > GG-grandfather, Jacob Born was born in Germany, in some censuses it > says Baden, on his Naturalization papers it says Hesse Darmstadt. > > > > His 1st son, my G-grandfather, was Edward Augustus Born, b 7 August 1855. > > > > Both the marriage and the baptism occurred at the Lafayette > Presbyterian Church (sometimes known as the Fulton Street Church) in > Orleans Parish, New > Orleans. The church burned down in 1860, but the records were saved, > and > the LDS has put them on film. > > > > I am hoping to be able to locate church records for either of the two > events, either the marriage or the baptism which occurred at the > Lafayette Presbyterian Church (sometimes known as the Fulton Street > Church) that would state the town or village in Germany where Jacob > was born. > > > > His father's Americanized name was John, he was probably Johannes in > Germany, and early on. > > > > Jacob's naturalization papers say that they came over in 1836, but no > ship's name or port was listed, so I am wondering if even the year is > correct. > (It is very possible that they landed 1st in Ohio, because that is > where Mena was born, and so maybe they met there, but I haven't been > able to ascertain this as yet.) > > > > So, from what I have learned, this is what I need: > > > > > > FHL US/CAN Film 1311102 Item 2 I believe the whole film is from the > Lafayette Presbyterian Church, in Orleans Parish. > > > > This has Marriages 1843 - 1871 (I am looking for Aug 3 OR 5, 1854) > Jacob > and Mena Born > > > > This has Baptisms 1841-1855 (My G-grandfather Edward Augustus Born) was > born Aug 7, 1855, but I don't have a baptismal date for him. > > > > > > Does anyone out there have access to these records? > > > > I would be thrilled, to say the least, if anyone can share this > information. > > > > Kindest regards in advance, > > > > > > Kathy Cochran > > San Andreas, CA > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message