Pat and everyone, If you need help, just give us a holler.  Some ancestors are more difficult to find.  Some lines I can Brees (wink) through in one long sitting while others I've worked on for decades with little luck. As bizarre as it sounds, I've had MAJOR breakthroughs when a family member dies.  The night my uncle died, within about 2 hours of his death, I broke through the brickwall of his line, which is also my mother's.  I'd been searching for the people for over 30 years, and that night I found several connections to the line and its branches that gave me tons, TONS, of new information.  The next day I made a trip to the courthouse in Donaldsonville and found much, much more needed information. It's happened this way for me for my own relatives several times, as well as for other people's lines I've worked on.  When a member of their families died, I found goldmines worth of info almost immediately. Who says the dead don't want to be found?  Some, yes, but most want their families to know about them - the good, the bad, and the ugly. Alexa - Who Dat fan all the way Genealogy research since 1974 Ancestral hauntings - I ain't afraid-a no ghosts... --- On Thu, 6/21/12, PatFreeman5@aol.com <PatFreeman5@aol.com> wrote: From: PatFreeman5@aol.com <PatFreeman5@aol.com> Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Fold 3 - Military Records To: laorlean@rootsweb.com Date: Thursday, June 21, 2012, 10:16 AM I am glad that your ancestors whisper to you,  I just wish that some  of mine would whisper or even YELL.  I hate it when I can't find that fact  that I need to put with an ancestor. Pat

Okay, I have a question for all you folks that are finding great military records. I wrote to the National Archives for my g-g-grandfather's records. He was career military, Capt R M Davis and then sent? to New Orleans (by 1815) as Major Davis. I got 2 narrow pieces of paper, with almost nothing on them. I have never found a death record or burial place, although his wife and children all died and were buried in New Orleans. It could be that he died in action somewhere and was buried there. Is that all I can expect of a military record from so far back? There wasn't even a mention of him gaining the rank of Major. At 08:15 AM 6/21/2012, you wrote: >I also do a lot of research at night and also "feel" (seriously) >that the ancestors can relate to me best during those hours when my >world is quiet. My most astounding breakthroughs have always been >late night/wee morning hours. My "Bingo!" and "Yippee!" shouts have >startled quiet a few out of a sound sleep, including the furry family members. > >Military records can be found at familysearch.org as mentioned, as >well as ancestry.com and Fold3, but don't forget Heritage Quest. I >found entire Revolutionary War pension files there. > >One late night I found my great-grandfather's military records at >familysearch.org plus the birth record of his daughter by his first >marriage, two things I'd been searching for years. I simply >searched his name, no dates, no locations, and up popped some >wonderful information. > >My point is: check every available resource. Even the free sites >hold great treasures. Go back and check often, new things are being >added all the time, plus, at ancestry.com. people can add >corrections or alternate names, making findings easier - >sometimes. Can't tell you have many records I've added to on that site. > > >Alexa >Genealogy research since 1974 > >Ancestral hauntings - I ain't afraid-a no ghosts... > > > >--- On Wed, 6/20/12, Cate Schweitzer-Toepfer <voiceofshe@hotmail.com> wrote: > >From: Cate Schweitzer-Toepfer <voiceofshe@hotmail.com> >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Fold 3 >To: laorlean@rootsweb.com >Date: Wednesday, June 20, 2012, 5:55 PM > >Especially worth it if you do a lot of your research like I ... at 1 o'clock >in the morning in my nightgown when I can't sleep and there are no good >deals on the shopping channels and the ancestor spirits seem to be inspiring >me the most. Cate ;-} > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Just say no" prevents teenage pregnancy the way 'Have a nice day' cures chronic depression.

I'm related to Vincent, albeit, collaterally. Interesting story.  Thanks. Alexa Genealogy research since 1974 Ancestral hauntings - I ain't afraid-a no ghosts... From: carol stauder <seestauder@hotmail.com> To: laorlean@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 11:39 AM Subject: [LAORLEAN] interracial relationships   Hi everyone, Just to chime in on this discussion.  A brother of one of my ancestors had a long term relationship with a free woman of color.  He was Vincent Alexis Porche II (1761-1830).  She was Adelaide Carmouche (c.1779-1859).  They lived in Pointe Coupee.  Before he died he had a document drawn up and notarized where he acknowledged every one of the 12 children Adelaide bore him and they were able to inherit what he left to them.  To my knowledge Adelaide never had another relationship after Vincent Alexis died..  I have been in touch with Greg Osborn and he has a copy of that document. Not to look through rose colored glasses, but there were relationships like this and for sure there were "relationships" based on coersion and rape.  I also think that slaves knew that if the "master" faored them, things would go better for them and they curried his favor.  Unless we were there, there is no way we can say for sure what the relationship was truly like. Carol Stauder                          

I also do a lot of research at night and also "feel" (seriously) that the ancestors can relate to me best during those hours when my world is quiet.  My most astounding breakthroughs have always been late night/wee morning hours.  My "Bingo!" and "Yippee!" shouts have startled quiet a few out of a sound sleep, including the furry family members. Military records can be found at familysearch.org as mentioned, as well as ancestry.com and Fold3, but don't forget Heritage Quest.  I found entire Revolutionary War pension files there. One late night I found my great-grandfather's military records at familysearch.org plus the birth record of his daughter by his first marriage, two things I'd been searching for years.  I simply searched his name, no dates, no locations, and up popped some wonderful information. My point is: check every available resource.  Even the free sites hold great treasures. Go back and check often, new things are being added all the time, plus, at ancestry.com. people can add corrections or alternate names, making findings easier - sometimes.  Can't tell you have many records I've added to on that site. Alexa Genealogy research since 1974 Ancestral hauntings - I ain't afraid-a no ghosts... --- On Wed, 6/20/12, Cate Schweitzer-Toepfer <voiceofshe@hotmail.com> wrote: From: Cate Schweitzer-Toepfer <voiceofshe@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Fold 3 To: laorlean@rootsweb.com Date: Wednesday, June 20, 2012, 5:55 PM Especially worth it if you do a lot of your research like I ... at 1 o'clock in the morning in my nightgown when I can't sleep and there are no good deals on the shopping channels and the ancestor spirits seem to be inspiring me the most.   Cate ;-}

The only thing that dna or mtdna will tell you is basic info, i.e. most probable area with greatest current dna or mtdna matching,  It may help you if you can compare your dna or mtdna to others in the system provided by the company doing the testing.  There are several in the market and from what I know one that can be up-loaded with your results so they can be viewed by anyone belonging to that site. All the other companies maintain their own individual sites.  And even then, matching is difficult to impossible.  My uncle's dna matched another individual at 99.9%.  Only when I joined a surname project, did I find out that my uncle and the other person were cousins.  So far, after almost 4 years, I have not found another match in their database.  There are many 12 marker matches but they do not have the same surname or the other 37 markers are a complete non-match. Helen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Cochran" <kathys_old_house@goldrush.com> To: laorlean@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 7:08:01 PM Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test Honestly, if you have your DNA done, and it tells you where your ancestors came from 1000 years ago or more, what have you gained?  I'm really not sure ANYTHING! It's not going to help you find out any names or any records 3-4 hundred years ago that could help with the brick-wall breaking!   If anyone else on this list has some comments on this, please feel free to correct me................ Kathy Cochran -----Original Message----- From: laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Shelia Salomone Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:21 PM To: laorlean@rootsweb.com; 'Sally Viada' Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test What if you have a brick wall that has not been cracked for 40+ years of research through numerous family members? Would DNA testing help since there is a mixture of foreigner ancestors and it is my great great grandparents? No amount of research has cracked it yet! And doesn't ancestry.co have all of the records you mention that are on Fold3? I have seen all these records mentioned already on ancestry.com. Thanks, Shelia -----Original Message----- From: laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Cochran Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:23 PM To: 'Sally Viada' Cc: 'laorleans' Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test Hi Sally,   I had my Uncle's DNA tested, because we were looking to break a brick wall on my Cochran great-grandfather, who undoubtedly came from a Scottish line, but no info further back than 1818 is available.  AND, I have traced about 4 lines of our family back into Germany.   The results came back that Paco is about 75% Scandanavian!   I expected the results to say something like about 75% German!  The real answer to this is that the Vikings invaded Scotland and created Cochrans, and the Vikings invaded Germany and created Borns and Rices (Reiss's)( my families that immigrated to New Orleans in the 1800's). But I was looking for something a little more recent - like back to the 1600's perhaps.     Maybe I expected too much?   Kathy Cochran   From: Sally Viada [mailto:sgvjada@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:16 AM To: Kathy Cochran Cc: laorleans Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test   Well, I did the maternal line a couple of years ago through Ancestry.  I know I have Spanish on my mother's line back to Graciana Solis, born abt 1751 in Cuba. Her grandmother died in Cuba abt 1712. So I thought it was safe to assume they were from Spain. Graciana married Juan Ronquillo. I also come from Graciana's brother Joseph Solis.   The results came back that I came out of Africa abt 150,000 years ago. Thought everyone knew this.  Did I miss something in reading the results??     Sally   From: Kathy Cochran <kathys_old_house@goldrush.com> To: 'Sally Viada' <sgvjada@yahoo.com>; laorlean@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:32 AM Subject: RE: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test Hi Sally,  I am curious about your perceived results of your first test.  I have had a similar reaction.   Kathy -----Original Message----- From: laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sally Viada Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:54 AM To: laorleans Subject: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test Just sent off my dna ethnicity test from Ancestry today. Hope it gets better results than the first   one.   Sally ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/ Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2437/5078 - Release Date: 06/18/12   _____   No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2437/5079 - Release Date: 06/19/12 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. 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In early Louisiana history, there was a practice called "Placage"--- in which young women of color of varying percentages and "white" rich men freely entered. There was no written contracts, however the women's mother was usually given a piece of property in exchange for her daughter's "hand in marriage". There was a "marriage ceremony" and the couple lived as a married couple until such time as either party left. They developed their own society consisting of educated fpc. It was the custom for the man to claim all their children as his and they carried his surname. The children often were "white in color" and they moved between the white and black societies. The male children were educated and became store keepers, attorneys, professional men. Most of the time, but not always, the man was already married and had a "white family". The two families were kept strictly apart even though while they knew of the existence and residence of the "other" family. This practice continued until the end of the Civil War. At which time, the children were made to declare themselves as "black" or "white". An excellent book on this topic was written by Anne Rice - "The Feast of All Saints". It was made into a mini-series and shown on Showtime in 2001. It would strongly suggest reading this book to gain a further understanding of these relationships. Another good book is by Mary Gehman, "The Free People of Color of New Orleans". This gives you the opportunity to learn how the free people of color were integrated into LA society and became landowners in their own right. Good reading - How will our society's norms be judged by our descendants in 100 years? Eugenia Texas -----Original Message----- From: laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Long Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:00 PM To: laorlean@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] interracial relationships I'm so glad we've got this discussion going, and I hope those of you with stories like Carol's will pass the information on to Greg Orborn. I think research will show that men and women of different races had sexual relations and produced children for every sort of reason, sometimes an exercise of power on the part of a slave owner, sometimes an enslaved woman who saw an advantage to being the "master's" favorite, and sometimes mutual affection. And it wasn't always white men with women of color--sometimes it was the reverse. One of Marie Laveau's biracial great grandsons, Ernest Legendre, married a white women named Violet Caubert in 1910--in Orleans Parish, where interracial marriages were no longer legal. Armand and Gustave Macarty, sons of the white Jean Baptiste Barthelemy Macarty and the free woman of color CeCe Carpentier, went to New York City and married white women. Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "carol stauder" <seestauder@hotmail.com> To: <laorlean@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:39 PM Subject: [LAORLEAN] interracial relationships > > Hi everyone, > Just to chime in on this discussion. A brother of one of my ancestors had > a long term relationship with a free woman of color. He was Vincent > Alexis Porche II (1761-1830). She was Adelaide Carmouche (c.1779-1859). > They lived in Pointe Coupee. Before he died he had a document drawn up > and notarized where he acknowledged every one of the 12 children Adelaide > bore him and they were able to inherit what he left to them. To my > knowledge Adelaide never had another relationship after Vincent Alexis > died.. I have been in touch with Greg Osborn and he has a copy of that > document. > > Not to look through rose colored glasses, but there were relationships > like this and for sure there were "relationships" based on coersion and > rape. I also think that slaves knew that if the "master" favored them, > things would go better for them and they curried his favor. Unless we > were there, there is no way we can say for sure what the relationship was > truly like. > Carol Stauder > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In my research into my husband's family, I have found several of his ancestors who had relationships with Free women of color and they all seemed to be consensual. One such person was Jean Baptiste DeLisle Sarpy - his daughter from his relationship was Blessed Henriette DeLille. Another ancestor had a very public relationship with a woman he met in Cuba and brought to New Orleans. They had 8 children. One of those children was involved in a very well known court case where she attempted to prove in court she was white. I think there was a song made up about her. I think once again New Orleans is very different from the rest of the south. Race relations were so much more complicated and involved (and still are!). Another ancestor, Judge Lucien Adams, who was accused of murdering blacks during race riots in New Orleans, was also seen having coffee every morning with Marie Laveau and was thought to have a very close relationship with her.  I think race in New Orleans and Louisiana is such an interesting topic. Leslie Adams   "Be watchful, stand firm in your faith, be courageous, be strong. Let all that you do be done in love." (1 Cor 16:13) >________________________________ > From: "laorlean-request@rootsweb.com" <laorlean-request@rootsweb.com> >To: laorlean@rootsweb.com >Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 11:12 AM >Subject: LAORLEAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 112 > > > >Today's Topics: > >  1. Re: DNA ethnicity test (Alexa) >  2. Re: DNA ethnicity test (Alexa) >  3. Re: Fold3 (jans884@bellsouth.net) >  4. Fold 3 (Barbara Munson) >  5. Re: Fold 3 (gjreiner) >  6. Michelle Obama's ancesters (Carolyn  Long) >  7. Re: Michelle Obama's ancesters (Judy Vinson) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:18:35 -0700 (PDT) >From: Alexa <kaseysworld2@yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test >To: laorlean@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: >    <1340187515.83089.YahooMailClassic@web120202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >Out of Africa, eh?? Well, duh!? Right? > >Now if they had said, "your ancestors were from the Garden of Eden, and this is exactly where it was (see enclosed map)", they would really be telling us something.? Correct? > >150,000 years ago!?? hmmmm > > >Alexa >Genealogy research since 1974 > >Ancestral hauntings - I ain't afraid-a no ghosts... > >  > >-----Original Message----- >From: Sally Viada >Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 1:16 PM >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test > >Well, I did the maternal line a couple of years ago through Ancestry.? I >know I have Spanish on my mother's line back to Graciana Solis, >born abt 1751 in Cuba. Her grandmother died in Cuba abt 1712. So I thought >it was safe to assume they were from Spain. >Graciana married Juan Ronquillo. I also come from Graciana's brother Joseph >Solis. > >The results came back that I came out of Africa abt 150,000 years ago. >Thought everyone knew this.? Did I miss something in >reading the results?? > >Sally > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:36:07 -0700 (PDT) >From: Alexa <kaseysworld2@yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test >To: laorlean@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: >    <1340188567.14777.YahooMailClassic@web120203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >I empathize about the 40 years of research and can't crack the brickwall.? I have one of those lines, too.? I've been able to get back only to about 1800 on my maternal grandfather's lines.? It took 33 years before I had a breakthrough and was able to discover family information back to the early 19th century.? Four years later, I'm still searching for more and haven't been able to go earlier. > >Luckily on all my other lines, the families had been in North America about four hundred years (Acadian-French, English) and earlier (Huron Indians), with the Spanish and Germans in between, so it was easy to track them. > >I've also wondered if DNA testing would help track that grandfather's ancestors or heritage? but I've been reluctant to ask my male cousins to help and be tested. > > >Alexa >Genealogy research since 1974 > >Ancestral hauntings - I ain't afraid-a no ghosts... > >  > >--- On Tue, 6/19/12, Shelia Salomone <salomos@comcast.net> wrote: > >From: Shelia Salomone <salomos@comcast.net> >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test >To: laorlean@rootsweb.com, "'Sally Viada'" <sgvjada@yahoo.com> >Date: Tuesday, June 19, 2012, 7:21 PM > >What if you have a brick wall that has not been cracked for 40+ years of >research through numerous family members? Would DNA testing help since there >is a mixture of foreigner ancestors and it is my great great grandparents? >No amount of research has cracked it yet! > >And doesn't ancestry.co have all of the records you mention that are on >Fold3? I have seen all these records mentioned already on ancestry.com. > >Thanks, >Shelia > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:52:39 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) >From: "jans884@bellsouth.net" <jans884@bellsouth.net> >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Fold3 >To: "LAOrleans" <laorlean@rootsweb.com> >Message-ID: <4FE1AB77.000001.03192@JAN-PC> >Content-Type: Text/Plain;  charset="iso-8859-1" > >Thanks for the info all, really appreciate it. > >Jan S - Orlando, FL > > > > >-------Original Message------- > >From: Norm Hellmers >Date: 06/19/12 16:15:58 >To: laorlean@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Fold3 > >Carol et al, > >Fold3 also has a good collection of New Orleans city directories. Go here: >http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.ancestry >com/~neworleans/nola_sources/city_directories/ >and scroll down to "City directories available for a fee online" and check >out what Fold3 has. > > >To access the entire Fold3 site: >http://www.fold3.com/ > >Norm > > > >________________________________ >  From: Carol Mills <siess@bellsouth.net> >To: laorlean@rootsweb.com >Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:20 PM >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] LAORLEAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 > >I have had Fold3 which used to be  <footnote.com> for several years now. I >think it is worth it. Lots of military records including Confederate >civilians who sold commodities and supplies to the army.  Besides >Ancestry.com, of course, genealogybank.com is my  second favorite site, but >this comes in as  a  solid third. > >Carol Mills > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >------------------------------ > >Message: 4 >Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:40:10 -0700 (PDT) >From: Barbara Munson <munsonfly@yahoo.com> >Subject: [LAORLEAN] Fold 3 >To: Orleans List <LAORLEAN@rootsweb.com> >Message-ID: >    <1340192410.33206.YahooMailNeo@web164505.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >For those who haven't tried Fold 3 (like me), there is a 7-day free trial. > >Also, for Sally (I think?) who asked if this same information is available on Ancestry - Some military information is no longer available on Ancestry; it's been moved over to Fold 3. > >Barbara > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 5 >Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:59:35 -0400 >From: gjreiner <gjreiner@earthlink.net> >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Fold 3 >To: Barbara Munson <munsonfly@yahoo.com>, laorlean@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <4FE1C937.1070500@earthlink.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Hi, I am just jumping in to tell you all how great familysearch.org  >really is. I have a gggrandfather who was in the Civil War (Confederate) >and I searched for years trying to find what I could, well with >familysearch. I found sooo much, I was actually able to find his prison >records at Camp Chase, that was a great find, also much more info than I >ever was able to find, also have 2 gguncles also served in Civil War >found everything! When you get to the site make sure you sign in, you >will get so much more. Also genealogybank.com is just as good, their >newspaper search is great, I found newspaper articles that I have never >found before and what more can I say about Ancestry.com, that is my >favorite, they don't always have what I search for but I have built my  >entire ancestry on them. Some of these sites may cost a little but it >sure is worth it. > >Doris > > > > > >On 6/20/2012 7:40 AM, Barbara Munson wrote: >> For those who haven't tried Fold 3 (like me), there is a 7-day free trial. >> >> Also, for Sally (I think?) who asked if this same information is available on Ancestry - Some military information is no longer available on Ancestry; it's been moved over to Fold 3. >> >> Barbara >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 6 >Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:15:29 -0400 >From: "Carolyn  Long" <carolynlong@earthlink.net> >Subject: [LAORLEAN] Michelle Obama's ancesters >To: <LAORLEAN@rootsweb.com>, "Cate Schweitzer-Toepfer" >    <voiceofshe@hotmail.com> >Message-ID: <4509809692C94C838CB9B9E4646EA0B8@D2LSGTG1> >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >    reply-type=original > >Thanks for the link, Cate, to the article by genealogist Megan Smolenyak. >I've been reading this discussion of Mrs. Obama's white ancestors with >interest. A Google search for Dolphus Shields turned up anoher article, "DNA >Uncovers Michelle Obama's White, Slave Master Ancestry," on a site called >"Madame Noire." In this article and others, the assumption is that the >enslaved mother, Malvinia, was raped by Charles Shields, the son of her >owner: "No African American would be surprised to learn that he or she has >white ancestors given the history of slave raping in this country." Dolphus >was born in 1860, and Malvinia, presumably after she was freed by the >emancipation proclamation, had other biracial children. The article doesn't >say whether these children were also fathered by Shields. The article goes >on to ridicule Aliene Shields, a white descendant of the Shileds family: >"Citing the fact that Melvina bore several more biracial children, Aliene >Shields told the New York Times: 'To me, it's an obvious love story that was >hard for the South to accept back then." The writer of the article comments: >"That's one sugar-coated way to look at it." > >The person writing this obviously doesn't know anything about Orleans >Parish, where such relationships were often consentual and one assumes based >on affection and mutual benefit. True, white men usually cohabited with free >women of color, not slaves, but when the woman WAS enslaved the owner at >aleast sometimes freed her and their biracial children and they continued to >live together as a family. Greg Osborn at NOPL is compiling a database of >biracial families and so far has over 500. In my research on the >Laveau-Glapion-Legendre family and the Macarty family, I've also found many >examples. > >I'd be interested in what the rest of you think about this. > >Carolyn Long > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 7 >Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:12:37 -0500 >From: "Judy Vinson" <jgvinson@swbell.net> >Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Michelle Obama's ancesters >To: "Carolyn  Long" <carolynlong@earthlink.net>, >    <laorlean@rootsweb.com> >Message-ID: <904704F5AB3E47B3B46E2F697509D9D0@JudyPC> >Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1" > >I enjoyed the article as well and am an avid watcher of the various genealogy TV programs. > >I would suppose that the vast majority of the master/slave relationships were based on, if not actual rape, at least on coercion just as many of the master/white servant  relationships were.  This is not to say that others were not based on affection and were entered into freely. > >You are right in that the French Catholic "relationships" were often very different, especially where free woman of color were involved. > >I know quite a bit about 3 such relationships in my immediate family, two beginning in St. Dominigue and continuing in New Orleans between French men and free women of color and one in Mississippi/Alabama between a New Orleans French man and a free woman of color.  All three were true marriages in all but name and lasted until the death of the male partner.  Another relationship in a related line was between a foreign national in New Orleans and a woman who was his slave, but who was freed when she became pregnant and of course all of the children were born free.  > >Would love to see the names in Greg's database.  Would that be possible? > >Judy Vinson >  ----- Original Message ----- >  From: Carolyn Long >  To: LAORLEAN@rootsweb.com ; Cate Schweitzer-Toepfer >  Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:15 AM >  Subject: [LAORLEAN] Michelle Obama's ancesters > > >  Thanks for the link, Cate, to the article by genealogist Megan Smolenyak. >  I've been reading this discussion of Mrs. Obama's white ancestors with >  interest. A Google search for Dolphus Shields turned up anoher article, "DNA >  Uncovers Michelle Obama's White, Slave Master Ancestry," on a site called >  "Madame Noire." In this article and others, the assumption is that the >  enslaved mother, Malvinia, was raped by Charles Shields, the son of her >  owner: "No African American would be surprised to learn that he or she has >  white ancestors given the history of slave raping in this country." Dolphus >  was born in 1860, and Malvinia, presumably after she was freed by the >  emancipation proclamation, had other biracial children. The article doesn't >  say whether these children were also fathered by Shields. The article goes >  on to ridicule Aliene Shields, a white descendant of the Shileds family: >  "Citing the fact that Melvina bore several more biracial children, Aliene >  Shields told the New York Times: 'To me, it's an obvious love story that was >  hard for the South to accept back then." The writer of the article comments: >  "That's one sugar-coated way to look at it." > >  The person writing this obviously doesn't know anything about Orleans >  Parish, where such relationships were often consentual and one assumes based >  on affection and mutual benefit. True, white men usually cohabited with free >  women of color, not slaves, but when the woman WAS enslaved the owner at >  aleast sometimes freed her and their biracial children and they continued to >  live together as a family. Greg Osborn at NOPL is compiling a database of >  biracial families and so far has over 500. In my research on the >  Laveau-Glapion-Legendre family and the Macarty family, I've also found many >  examples. > >  I'd be interested in what the rest of you think about this. > >  Carolyn Long > > >  ------------------------------- >  To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >------------------------------ > >To contact the LAORLEAN list administrator, send an email to >LAORLEAN-admin@rootsweb.com. > >To post a message to the LAORLEAN mailing list, send an email to LAORLEAN@rootsweb.com. > >__________________________________________________________ >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com >with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >email with no additional text. > > >End of LAORLEAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 112 >**************************************** > > >

Especially worth it if you do a lot of your research like I ... at 1 o'clock in the morning in my nightgown when I can't sleep and there are no good deals on the shopping channels and the ancestor spirits seem to be inspiring me the most. Cate ;-} -----Original Message----- From: gjreiner Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 7:59 AM To: Barbara Munson ; laorlean@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Fold 3 Hi, I am just jumping in to tell you all how great familysearch.org really is. I have a gggrandfather who was in the Civil War (Confederate) and I searched for years trying to find what I could, well with familysearch. I found sooo much, I was actually able to find his prison records at Camp Chase, that was a great find, also much more info than I ever was able to find, also have 2 gguncles also served in Civil War found everything! When you get to the site make sure you sign in, you will get so much more. Also genealogybank.com is just as good, their newspaper search is great, I found newspaper articles that I have never found before and what more can I say about Ancestry.com, that is my favorite, they don't always have what I search for but I have built my entire ancestry on them. Some of these sites may cost a little but it sure is worth it. Doris On 6/20/2012 7:40 AM, Barbara Munson wrote: > For those who haven't tried Fold 3 (like me), there is a 7-day free trial. > > Also, for Sally (I think?) who asked if this same information is available > on Ancestry - Some military information is no longer available on > Ancestry; it's been moved over to Fold 3. > > Barbara > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I haven't sent out my brick wall to this list yet. This is the couple that have stumped my family for decades now. We can't seem to find mention of them except from their son's few documents. Their son is my gr-gr grandfather and he would not have anything to do with his family nor would he talk about them. No one knows why. He only states who they are when he is married. And they are stated as his parents when he dies. So far this is the only mention of them and no one has been able to find the couple. Maybe I will get lucky one of these days? Still keeping my fingers crossed. Jean MAURICE & Frances SEMOUR/LEMOUR/SYMOUR Their son Jean MAURICE was also known as John MORRIS. The family started spelling the last name of MAURICE as MORRIS with my gr-gr grandfather. I assume because this is the English pronunciation of MAURICE. Here are the documents where the couple are mentioned: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------- Their son's death certificate: Name: John Morris Death Date: 09 Mar 1939 Death Place: Thibodeaux, , Lafourche, Louisiana Gender: Male Race (original): W Race (standardized): White Age: 82 Estimated Birth Year: 1857 Birth Place: Lake Charles, Louisiana Marital Status: Widowed Spouse's Name: Marie N Noquin Father's Name: John Morris Mother's Name: Frances Symoure Film number: 2358376 Image Number: 00089 Certificate Number: 3738 Digital Folder Number: 4216102 Their son's marriage: "taken from Father HEBERT's South Loisiana Records: 1876-1880" MORRIS, John (Jean & Francoise SEMOUR) m. 2 Dec. 1878 Pauline NAQUIN (Thib. Ct. Hse. : Mar. v. 21, # 175) MAURICE, Jean (Jean & Francoise LEMOUR) m. 2 Dec 1878 Pauline NAQUIN ( Thib. Ch. : v. 9, p. 123) Family rumor said that Jean MAURICE was from Paris, France and Frances/Francoise SEMOUR/LEMOUR/SYMOURE was born in London, England. These are unproven though. I have a picture of their son (Jean II). He has blue eyes and dark hair but is graying. Fair skinned. I mention this because there were several MAURICE families of color and I don't think this is his line. So, if anyone has further information on Jean/John MAURICE/MORRIS & Francoise SEMOUR/LEMOUR/SYMOURE would you please send it my way? Thank you, Shelia KRAEMER SALOMONE

Honestly, if you have your DNA done, and it tells you where your ancestors came from 1000 years ago or more, what have you gained? I'm really not sure ANYTHING! It's not going to help you find out any names or any records 3-4 hundred years ago that could help with the brick-wall breaking! If anyone else on this list has some comments on this, please feel free to correct me................ Kathy Cochran -----Original Message----- From: laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Shelia Salomone Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:21 PM To: laorlean@rootsweb.com; 'Sally Viada' Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test What if you have a brick wall that has not been cracked for 40+ years of research through numerous family members? Would DNA testing help since there is a mixture of foreigner ancestors and it is my great great grandparents? No amount of research has cracked it yet! And doesn't ancestry.co have all of the records you mention that are on Fold3? I have seen all these records mentioned already on ancestry.com. Thanks, Shelia -----Original Message----- From: laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Cochran Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:23 PM To: 'Sally Viada' Cc: 'laorleans' Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test Hi Sally, I had my Uncle's DNA tested, because we were looking to break a brick wall on my Cochran great-grandfather, who undoubtedly came from a Scottish line, but no info further back than 1818 is available. AND, I have traced about 4 lines of our family back into Germany. The results came back that Paco is about 75% Scandanavian! I expected the results to say something like about 75% German! The real answer to this is that the Vikings invaded Scotland and created Cochrans, and the Vikings invaded Germany and created Borns and Rices (Reiss's)( my families that immigrated to New Orleans in the 1800's). But I was looking for something a little more recent - like back to the 1600's perhaps. Maybe I expected too much? Kathy Cochran From: Sally Viada [mailto:sgvjada@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:16 AM To: Kathy Cochran Cc: laorleans Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test Well, I did the maternal line a couple of years ago through Ancestry. I know I have Spanish on my mother's line back to Graciana Solis, born abt 1751 in Cuba. Her grandmother died in Cuba abt 1712. So I thought it was safe to assume they were from Spain. Graciana married Juan Ronquillo. I also come from Graciana's brother Joseph Solis. The results came back that I came out of Africa abt 150,000 years ago. Thought everyone knew this. Did I miss something in reading the results?? Sally From: Kathy Cochran <kathys_old_house@goldrush.com> To: 'Sally Viada' <sgvjada@yahoo.com>; laorlean@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:32 AM Subject: RE: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test Hi Sally, I am curious about your perceived results of your first test. I have had a similar reaction. Kathy -----Original Message----- From: laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sally Viada Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:54 AM To: laorleans Subject: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test Just sent off my dna ethnicity test from Ancestry today. Hope it gets better results than the first one. Sally ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/ Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2437/5078 - Release Date: 06/18/12 _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2437/5079 - Release Date: 06/19/12 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2437/5080 - Release Date: 06/19/12

Like Cate said, this group is pretty broad minded and lots of us, like me for instances, have gleen a world of help from them. Nothing is off scope that has to do with your ancestors. I found through this group that my GGGrandfather was most likely FPC, something I would not have know without these great folks. We are always glad to help 'newbies', so ask away. Jan S - Orlando, FL -------Original Message------- From: Cate Schweitzer-Toepfer Date: 6/20/2012 4:37:43 PM To: laorlean@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test This is a pretty broad minded group, not much is off the scope or offensive unless the motivation is something more than just getting at the truth. Many of us have found surprises in our trees. DNA testing is just another piece of evidence to confirm something most of us have already known or found out. Don't be shy because your are a newbie ... if you get out of line our list mama Dee will set you straight. Cate ;-} -----Original Message----- From: Shelia Salomone Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 1:45 AM To: laorlean@rootsweb.com ; 'Sally Viada' Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test I hope I didn't offend anyone? I am sorry if I did. I am new to this group and not sure what is appropriate to ask or comment on. Please accept my apologies if I was out of turn. Sincerely, Shelia -----Original Message----- From: laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Shelia Salomone Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:21 PM To: laorlean@rootsweb.com; 'Sally Viada' Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test What if you have a brick wall that has not been cracked for 40+ years of research through numerous family members? Would DNA testing help since there is a mixture of foreigner ancestors and it is my great great grandparents? No amount of research has cracked it yet! And doesn't ancestry.co have all of the records you mention that are on Fold3? I have seen all these records mentioned already on ancestry.com. Thanks, Shelia -----Original Message----- From: laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Cochran Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:23 PM To: 'Sally Viada' Cc: 'laorleans' Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test Hi Sally, I had my Uncle's DNA tested, because we were looking to break a brick wall on my Cochran great-grandfather, who undoubtedly came from a Scottish line, but no info further back than 1818 is available. AND, I have traced about 4 lines of our family back into Germany. The results came back that Paco is about 75% Scandanavian! I expected the results to say something like about 75% German! The real answer to this is that the Vikings invaded Scotland and created Cochrans, and the Vikings invaded Germany and created Borns and Rices (Reiss's)( my families that immigrated to New Orleans in the 1800's). But I was looking for something a little more recent - like back to the 1600's perhaps. Maybe I expected too much? Kathy Cochran From: Sally Viada [mailto:sgvjada@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:16 AM To: Kathy Cochran Cc: laorleans Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test Well, I did the maternal line a couple of years ago through Ancestry. I know I have Spanish on my mother's line back to Graciana Solis, born abt 1751 in Cuba. Her grandmother died in Cuba abt 1712. So I thought it was safe to assume they were from Spain. Graciana married Juan Ronquillo. I also come from Graciana's brother Joseph Solis. The results came back that I came out of Africa abt 150,000 years ago. Thought everyone knew this. Did I miss something in reading the results?? Sally From: Kathy Cochran <kathys_old_house@goldrush.com> To: 'Sally Viada' <sgvjada@yahoo.com>; laorlean@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:32 AM Subject: RE: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test Hi Sally, I am curious about your perceived results of your first test. I have had a similar reaction. Kathy -----Original Message----- From: laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sally Viada Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:54 AM To: laorleans Subject: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test Just sent off my dna ethnicity test from Ancestry today. Hope it gets better results than the first one. Sally ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/ Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2437/5078 - Release Date: 06/18/12 _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2437/5079 - Release Date: 06/19/12 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi everyone, Just to chime in on this discussion. A brother of one of my ancestors had a long term relationship with a free woman of color. He was Vincent Alexis Porche II (1761-1830). She was Adelaide Carmouche (c.1779-1859). They lived in Pointe Coupee. Before he died he had a document drawn up and notarized where he acknowledged every one of the 12 children Adelaide bore him and they were able to inherit what he left to them. To my knowledge Adelaide never had another relationship after Vincent Alexis died.. I have been in touch with Greg Osborn and he has a copy of that document. Not to look through rose colored glasses, but there were relationships like this and for sure there were "relationships" based on coersion and rape. I also think that slaves knew that if the "master" faored them, things would go better for them and they curried his favor. Unless we were there, there is no way we can say for sure what the relationship was truly like. Carol Stauder

I'm so glad we've got this discussion going, and I hope those of you with stories like Carol's will pass the information on to Greg Orborn. I think research will show that men and women of different races had sexual relations and produced children for every sort of reason, sometimes an exercise of power on the part of a slave owner, sometimes an enslaved woman who saw an advantage to being the "master's" favorite, and sometimes mutual affection. And it wasn't always white men with women of color--sometimes it was the reverse. One of Marie Laveau's biracial great grandsons, Ernest Legendre, married a white women named Violet Caubert in 1910--in Orleans Parish, where interracial marriages were no longer legal. Armand and Gustave Macarty, sons of the white Jean Baptiste Barthelemy Macarty and the free woman of color CeCe Carpentier, went to New York City and married white women. Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "carol stauder" <seestauder@hotmail.com> To: <laorlean@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:39 PM Subject: [LAORLEAN] interracial relationships > > Hi everyone, > Just to chime in on this discussion. A brother of one of my ancestors had > a long term relationship with a free woman of color. He was Vincent > Alexis Porche II (1761-1830). She was Adelaide Carmouche (c.1779-1859). > They lived in Pointe Coupee. Before he died he had a document drawn up > and notarized where he acknowledged every one of the 12 children Adelaide > bore him and they were able to inherit what he left to them. To my > knowledge Adelaide never had another relationship after Vincent Alexis > died.. I have been in touch with Greg Osborn and he has a copy of that > document. > > Not to look through rose colored glasses, but there were relationships > like this and for sure there were "relationships" based on coersion and > rape. I also think that slaves knew that if the "master" favored them, > things would go better for them and they curried his favor. Unless we > were there, there is no way we can say for sure what the relationship was > truly like. > Carol Stauder > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

This is a pretty broad minded group, not much is off the scope or offensive unless the motivation is something more than just getting at the truth. Many of us have found surprises in our trees. DNA testing is just another piece of evidence to confirm something most of us have already known or found out. Don't be shy because your are a newbie ... if you get out of line our list mama Dee will set you straight. Cate ;-} -----Original Message----- From: Shelia Salomone Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 1:45 AM To: laorlean@rootsweb.com ; 'Sally Viada' Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test I hope I didn't offend anyone? I am sorry if I did. I am new to this group and not sure what is appropriate to ask or comment on. Please accept my apologies if I was out of turn. Sincerely, Shelia -----Original Message----- From: laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Shelia Salomone Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:21 PM To: laorlean@rootsweb.com; 'Sally Viada' Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test What if you have a brick wall that has not been cracked for 40+ years of research through numerous family members? Would DNA testing help since there is a mixture of foreigner ancestors and it is my great great grandparents? No amount of research has cracked it yet! And doesn't ancestry.co have all of the records you mention that are on Fold3? I have seen all these records mentioned already on ancestry.com. Thanks, Shelia -----Original Message----- From: laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Cochran Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:23 PM To: 'Sally Viada' Cc: 'laorleans' Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test Hi Sally, I had my Uncle's DNA tested, because we were looking to break a brick wall on my Cochran great-grandfather, who undoubtedly came from a Scottish line, but no info further back than 1818 is available. AND, I have traced about 4 lines of our family back into Germany. The results came back that Paco is about 75% Scandanavian! I expected the results to say something like about 75% German! The real answer to this is that the Vikings invaded Scotland and created Cochrans, and the Vikings invaded Germany and created Borns and Rices (Reiss's)( my families that immigrated to New Orleans in the 1800's). But I was looking for something a little more recent - like back to the 1600's perhaps. Maybe I expected too much? Kathy Cochran From: Sally Viada [mailto:sgvjada@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:16 AM To: Kathy Cochran Cc: laorleans Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test Well, I did the maternal line a couple of years ago through Ancestry. I know I have Spanish on my mother's line back to Graciana Solis, born abt 1751 in Cuba. Her grandmother died in Cuba abt 1712. So I thought it was safe to assume they were from Spain. Graciana married Juan Ronquillo. I also come from Graciana's brother Joseph Solis. The results came back that I came out of Africa abt 150,000 years ago. Thought everyone knew this. Did I miss something in reading the results?? Sally From: Kathy Cochran <kathys_old_house@goldrush.com> To: 'Sally Viada' <sgvjada@yahoo.com>; laorlean@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:32 AM Subject: RE: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test Hi Sally, I am curious about your perceived results of your first test. I have had a similar reaction. Kathy -----Original Message----- From: laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:laorlean-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sally Viada Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:54 AM To: laorleans Subject: [LAORLEAN] DNA ethnicity test Just sent off my dna ethnicity test from Ancestry today. Hope it gets better results than the first one. Sally ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/ Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2437/5078 - Release Date: 06/18/12 _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2437/5079 - Release Date: 06/19/12 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks for the link, Cate, to the article by genealogist Megan Smolenyak. I've been reading this discussion of Mrs. Obama's white ancestors with interest. A Google search for Dolphus Shields turned up anoher article, "DNA Uncovers Michelle Obama's White, Slave Master Ancestry," on a site called "Madame Noire." In this article and others, the assumption is that the enslaved mother, Malvinia, was raped by Charles Shields, the son of her owner: "No African American would be surprised to learn that he or she has white ancestors given the history of slave raping in this country." Dolphus was born in 1860, and Malvinia, presumably after she was freed by the emancipation proclamation, had other biracial children. The article doesn't say whether these children were also fathered by Shields. The article goes on to ridicule Aliene Shields, a white descendant of the Shileds family: "Citing the fact that Melvina bore several more biracial children, Aliene Shields told the New York Times: 'To me, it's an obvious love story that was hard for the South to accept back then." The writer of the article comments: "That's one sugar-coated way to look at it." The person writing this obviously doesn't know anything about Orleans Parish, where such relationships were often consentual and one assumes based on affection and mutual benefit. True, white men usually cohabited with free women of color, not slaves, but when the woman WAS enslaved the owner at aleast sometimes freed her and their biracial children and they continued to live together as a family. Greg Osborn at NOPL is compiling a database of biracial families and so far has over 500. In my research on the Laveau-Glapion-Legendre family and the Macarty family, I've also found many examples. I'd be interested in what the rest of you think about this. Carolyn Long

I enjoyed the article as well and am an avid watcher of the various genealogy TV programs. I would suppose that the vast majority of the master/slave relationships were based on, if not actual rape, at least on coercion just as many of the master/white servant relationships were. This is not to say that others were not based on affection and were entered into freely. You are right in that the French Catholic "relationships" were often very different, especially where free woman of color were involved. I know quite a bit about 3 such relationships in my immediate family, two beginning in St. Dominigue and continuing in New Orleans between French men and free women of color and one in Mississippi/Alabama between a New Orleans French man and a free woman of color. All three were true marriages in all but name and lasted until the death of the male partner. Another relationship in a related line was between a foreign national in New Orleans and a woman who was his slave, but who was freed when she became pregnant and of course all of the children were born free. Would love to see the names in Greg's database. Would that be possible? Judy Vinson ----- Original Message ----- From: Carolyn Long To: LAORLEAN@rootsweb.com ; Cate Schweitzer-Toepfer Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:15 AM Subject: [LAORLEAN] Michelle Obama's ancesters Thanks for the link, Cate, to the article by genealogist Megan Smolenyak. I've been reading this discussion of Mrs. Obama's white ancestors with interest. A Google search for Dolphus Shields turned up anoher article, "DNA Uncovers Michelle Obama's White, Slave Master Ancestry," on a site called "Madame Noire." In this article and others, the assumption is that the enslaved mother, Malvinia, was raped by Charles Shields, the son of her owner: "No African American would be surprised to learn that he or she has white ancestors given the history of slave raping in this country." Dolphus was born in 1860, and Malvinia, presumably after she was freed by the emancipation proclamation, had other biracial children. The article doesn't say whether these children were also fathered by Shields. The article goes on to ridicule Aliene Shields, a white descendant of the Shileds family: "Citing the fact that Melvina bore several more biracial children, Aliene Shields told the New York Times: 'To me, it's an obvious love story that was hard for the South to accept back then." The writer of the article comments: "That's one sugar-coated way to look at it." The person writing this obviously doesn't know anything about Orleans Parish, where such relationships were often consentual and one assumes based on affection and mutual benefit. True, white men usually cohabited with free women of color, not slaves, but when the woman WAS enslaved the owner at aleast sometimes freed her and their biracial children and they continued to live together as a family. Greg Osborn at NOPL is compiling a database of biracial families and so far has over 500. In my research on the Laveau-Glapion-Legendre family and the Macarty family, I've also found many examples. I'd be interested in what the rest of you think about this. Carolyn Long ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This happens more than you would think.  I just recently did a genealogy for some friends of mine, who wanted to know their tree, and to see if I could find out what the secret was her elders kept. She had no idea, but was pleasantly surprised.  On her maternal grandmothers side, her grandmother had 1 grandmother, a fpc from Santa Domingo, and another grandmother, fpc born in New Orleans 1845. They both had children from a white man. Their race varied from census to census, and on some birth/death records from New Orleans one race was scratched out and another put in.  Very interesting research.   Sally ________________________________ From: carol stauder <seestauder@hotmail.com> To: laorlean@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 11:39 AM Subject: [LAORLEAN] interracial relationships Hi everyone, Just to chime in on this discussion.  A brother of one of my ancestors had a long term relationship with a free woman of color.  He was Vincent Alexis Porche II (1761-1830).  She was Adelaide Carmouche (c.1779-1859).  They lived in Pointe Coupee.  Before he died he had a document drawn up and notarized where he acknowledged every one of the 12 children Adelaide bore him and they were able to inherit what he left to them.  To my knowledge Adelaide never had another relationship after Vincent Alexis died..  I have been in touch with Greg Osborn and he has a copy of that document. Not to look through rose colored glasses, but there were relationships like this and for sure there were "relationships" based on coersion and rape.  I also think that slaves knew that if the "master" faored them, things would go better for them and they curried his favor.  Unless we were there, there is no way we can say for sure what the relationship was truly like. Carol Stauder                         ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, I am just jumping in to tell you all how great familysearch.org really is. I have a gggrandfather who was in the Civil War (Confederate) and I searched for years trying to find what I could, well with familysearch. I found sooo much, I was actually able to find his prison records at Camp Chase, that was a great find, also much more info than I ever was able to find, also have 2 gguncles also served in Civil War found everything! When you get to the site make sure you sign in, you will get so much more. Also genealogybank.com is just as good, their newspaper search is great, I found newspaper articles that I have never found before and what more can I say about Ancestry.com, that is my favorite, they don't always have what I search for but I have built my entire ancestry on them. Some of these sites may cost a little but it sure is worth it. Doris On 6/20/2012 7:40 AM, Barbara Munson wrote: > For those who haven't tried Fold 3 (like me), there is a 7-day free trial. > > Also, for Sally (I think?) who asked if this same information is available on Ancestry - Some military information is no longer available on Ancestry; it's been moved over to Fold 3. > > Barbara > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Thanks for the info all, really appreciate it. Jan S - Orlando, FL -------Original Message------- From: Norm Hellmers Date: 06/19/12 16:15:58 To: laorlean@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] Fold3 Carol et al, Fold3 also has a good collection of New Orleans city directories. Go here: http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.ancestry com/~neworleans/nola_sources/city_directories/ and scroll down to "City directories available for a fee online" and check out what Fold3 has. To access the entire Fold3 site: http://www.fold3.com/ Norm ________________________________ From: Carol Mills <siess@bellsouth.net> To: laorlean@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [LAORLEAN] LAORLEAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 I have had Fold3 which used to be <footnote.com> for several years now. I think it is worth it. Lots of military records including Confederate civilians who sold commodities and supplies to the army. Besides Ancestry.com, of course, genealogybank.com is my second favorite site, but this comes in as a solid third. Carol Mills ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LAORLEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For those who haven't tried Fold 3 (like me), there is a 7-day free trial. Also, for Sally (I think?) who asked if this same information is available on Ancestry - Some military information is no longer available on Ancestry; it's been moved over to Fold 3. Barbara