Hi Ian, Now you mention it "Jolly Crofters" seems a very familiar pub name. Not sure but I think "tenting" and similar terms had to do with outdoor bleaching crofts and the phrase of someone being "on tenterhooks" derives somehow from that. As you said previously at one time (pre-industrial period) the cloth would just be laid out on the grass and even here in Inverness there are parts of the banks of the river that were used for bleaching. But "tenter" seems to have been used for a "looker-after", "carer", "minder" in almost any part of the cotton trade - certainly there seem to be quite a lot of "engine tenters" in the census records. Most of my aunts/uncles (well really my mother's aunts/uncles, and she had lots) were in the industry in Ramsbottom and Rossendale as spinners, weavers etc but now it seems so hard to get first-hand information about it. Amazing what knowledge can be lost in just a couple of generations!! And I seem to remember reading something about people going out collecting dog turds but couldn't begin to speculate on how that differs from "nightsoil". David Greenhalgh ><snip> > When I thought of it I had always considered it derivative of the name > "croft" for a farm, how shortsighted of me! It is or was I think a trade > in the area of Bolton, as there is still a pub named the "Jolly Crofters" > near to Town, in onther words once again down toward the River bank - I > don't think it would have made me all that jolly, as a trade! The > tenterhooks I had also come across; I'm not sure but I think "Tenter" was > actually a trade too, in the old Cotton industry, though I am unsure > whether it was in spinning, etc., or bleaching. <snip> > wasn't there at one time an industry in collecting (hem) urine for the > bleaching industry? I know it was once used in laundering as a whitening > agent, though that might go back to Tudor times! The other ingredient of > "nightsoil" as it was referred to was raked into beds to produce > saltpetre for the once all-important Gunpowder industry - without that > even Nelson would have been sugared! Cheers, Ian -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 267.7.3 - Release Date: 14/06/2005

Many thanks, Ian and Rodney for that very interesting info about Bleachers. It's not a job I would have liked because I bet it involved a lot of exposure to (gaseous) chlorine, which can't have been good for the lungs! Also an interesting speculation about the origin of the American "bleachers" meaning "cheap seats". Mind you, having sat in them at a "ball-game" during a red-hot summer's day (over 40'C), I can understand that your shirt might have been a lighter tone at the end of the game! Cheers and thanks again Alan

Hi David, Funny you should mention the family tree, as one of the branches of my own family are the Crofts, of Bolton I think; and until you mentioned it had never actually made the connection with it as a trade name! When I thought of it I had always considered it derivative of the name "croft" for a farm, how shortsighted of me! It is or was I think a trade in the area of Bolton, as there is still a pub named the "Jolly Crofters" near to Town, in onther words once again down toward the River bank - I don't think it would have made me all that jolly, as a trade! The tenterhooks I had also come across; I'm not sure but I think "Tenter" was actually a trade too, in the old Cotton industry, though I am unsure whether it was in spinning, etc., or bleaching. I worked in a spinning mill; one of my jobs was on the "tank", where tubes or bobbins of spun yarn, in wicker "skips", were submerged in a tank of water to wet them and strengthen them for weaving, or so I was always told. We also did "Carding", or combing out the original "cotton wool" for later spinning into yarn. One of my bosses' name was Carder, ie. another Trade name! I bet an indoor bleaching croft stunk like crazy, wasn't there at one time an industry in collecting (hem) urine for the bleaching industry? I know it was once used in laundering as a whitening agent, though that might go back to Tudor times! The other ingredient of "nightsoil" as it was referred to was raked into beds to produce saltpetre for the once all-important Gunpowder industry - without that even Nelson would have been sugared! Cheers, Ian

Hi Ian, I have a couple of 'crofters' in my family tree. I was a bit puzzled because one of them was working well after the time when the crofts were outside and the cloth hung on long lines with tenterhooks. But not long ago I was reading a book on the industry with and it had a picture of a bleaching "croft" indoors with the machinery. It looks as if they must have kept using the old name even after chemical methods of bleaching took over from the exposure to sunlight method. David Greenhalgh >I think "Dyer and bleacher" were related trades, meant basically dipping >cloth in a bath of whatever to either whiten it from its natural dull >shade, or colour it. He would have been employed, so far as I know, in a >"bleacher's yard" or "croft"; I am not sure what else it might have been >called. At one time bleaching was done, in Rochdale anyway I believe, on >the banks of the river where the material could be spread out literally on >the riverbanks to bleach and dry out. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 267.7.3 - Release Date: 14/06/2005

Hi Alan, I think "Dyer and bleacher" were related trades, meant basically dipping cloth in a bath of whatever to either whiten it from its natural dull shade, or colour it. He would have been employed, so far as I know, in a "bleacher's yard" or "croft"; I am not sure what else it might have been called. At one time bleaching was done, in Rochdale anyway I believe, on the banks of the river where the material could be spread out literally on the riverbanks to bleach and dry out. Otherwise in large areas where the cloth could be hung outside to "blowdry"! I have wondered if the American term "Bleachers" for tiered benches had anything to do with the frameworks it was once done on? So far as related trades go, "Cotton Spinner" was only related in that it was in the Textile industry, spinners literally spun the yarn and wound it onto bobbins, "ringtubes" etc. A Spinner minded a row of spinning frames, my Mum was one. I am not sure whether Bleachers were employed in actual Cotton mills, they weren't in the one I worked in in the Sixties, anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone? Ian Winterbottom ----- Original Message ----- From: "alan" <alan_e_wright@bigpond.com> To: <LANCSLIFE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 1:13 AM Subject: [LANCSLIFE] Bleachers and Cotton Spinners > Hi folks, > > I'm trying to track down an ancestor who gave his profession as a > "bleacher" (in Wigan, 1851 census). > > Can anyone help me out with information as to whether this was a > "stand-alone" occupation? Or is he more likely to have been employed in a > mill or other workplace? And, if so, what sort? > > Also, what are the likely related trades? Would "cotton spinner" be one? > > Many thanks for any ideas > Cheers > Alan > > > ==== LANCSLIFE Mailing List ==== > Contact the list admin with any problems, questions or concerns: > lancslife-admin@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.1 - Release Date: 13/06/2005 >

Hi folks, I'm trying to track down an ancestor who gave his profession as a "bleacher" (in Wigan, 1851 census). Can anyone help me out with information as to whether this was a "stand-alone" occupation? Or is he more likely to have been employed in a mill or other workplace? And, if so, what sort? Also, what are the likely related trades? Would "cotton spinner" be one? Many thanks for any ideas Cheers Alan

Hi friends, I'm trying to track down an ancestor who worked in "Brown's Yard", Wigan (as seen in the 1851 census). Is there any Wigan-knowledgeable person on the list who can tell me where this might have been? I know it was just off Standishgate because I see the enumerator moved there just a page or so later. I've also checked out the (excellent!) site: http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/ which has a list of yards. Unfortunately the Brown's yard mentioned there is clearly far too far away from Standishgate, and so must have been another one. Finally, if anyone is feeling "inspired" perhaps they can help me out with finding out where was "Little London", again in Wigan in 1851. Many thanks for any help Cheers Alan

Alan, Bleacher is listed in http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/b.html and you are right to assume that it is related to cotton spinning, in that it would be a part of the production of fabric, although not necessarily in the same location to each other. -- Rodney HALL Heywood, Lancashire Suaviter sed fortiter Agreeably but powerfully ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ rmh@rmhh.co.uk http://rmhh.co.uk/ http://rmhh.org.uk/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > -----Original Message----- > From: alan [mailto:alan_e_wright@bigpond.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 1:13 AM > To: LANCSLIFE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [LANCSLIFE] Bleachers and Cotton Spinners > > Hi folks, > > I'm trying to track down an ancestor who gave his profession as a > "bleacher" (in Wigan, 1851 census). > > Can anyone help me out with information as to whether this was a > "stand-alone" occupation? Or is he more likely to have been > employed in > a mill or other workplace? And, if so, what sort? > > Also, what are the likely related trades? Would "cotton > spinner" be one? > > Many thanks for any ideas > Cheers > Alan > > > ==== LANCSLIFE Mailing List ==== > Contact the list admin with any problems, questions or > concerns: lancslife-admin@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx >

The Young Family Historian: A young (and possibly not so young) person's guide to genealogy by Bill Taylor (£4.50 + 80p p&p; £1.80 airmail worldwide). This is a book written specifically for teenagers fascinated by the origins and stories of their families. The book, published on a CD in Adobe Acrobat format, describes the necessary steps required to start researching family histories. The language and presentation are aimed at the young person, but the content applies equally to the new and not so knowledgeable family historian, whatever their age. Church & Clayton le Moors Cemetery, Dill Hall Lane, Church (Accrington) - Burial Registers 1889-1999 (£9.50 + 80p p&p; £1.80 airmail worldwide). The CD contains details of 15,950 burials in Adobe Acrobat format that is fully searchable. In most instances, each record includes the date, full name, age, description of relationship or status, the place of death and/or residence and the plot identity. The information is presented in 3 separate tables, sorted in date order, surname/forename order and grave plot order - the latter allows the researcher to check the grave occupancy. The bulk of the burials (14,219) are from addresses in Church, Clayton le Moors, Accrington and Oswaldtwistle with the remainder from the surrounding area, other parts of Lancashire and a few from other counties and overseas. These CDs can be ordered from Dorothy Haworth, 24 Cecil St, Oswaldtwistle BB5 3HF Check the website - http://lancashire-fhhs.org.uk/ Olive

Nettle beer recipes: http://thefoody.com/drinks/nettlebeer.html http://www.harvington.org.uk/hic/nettlebeer.html http://www.greenchronicle.co.uk/recipes/nettle_beer.htm I haven't tried any of the recipes, found them in a Google search. RecumbentDennis in Chester UK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Coles" <keith@colesy.wanadoo.co.uk> To: <LANCSLIFE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 12:39 AM Subject: FW: [LANCSLIFE] Cornets and Royton > Hi I'm Keith one of the newies researching my Coles family of Clayton le > Moors, when I was a lad we spent many a happy, sunny fortnight camping in > Morecambe and I often remember my Mum and Dad treating me to a glass of > nettle beer at Heysham, last time we were there, a couple of years ago, not > a sign of it and I can't find the recipe anywhere, has anybody any ideas. > By the way Heysham Head funfair/circus is well gone but the big 'guess your > weight' machine was still in the village. Morecambe seems to have given up > on it's resort title even all the funfairs are closed down and the outdoor > swimming pool was never going to be a winner. Sorry to sound so negative > but we had many happy times there, still looking for that nettle beer recipe > though. > > Take care. > > -----Original Message----- > From: bren.51-don_@tiscali.co.uk [mailto:bren.51-don_@tiscali.co.uk] > Sent: 25 May 2005 20:30 > To: LANCSLIFE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [LANCSLIFE] Cornets and Royton > > > Hi Ian > Have got news for you I worked on the bottom block or to give it 's proper > name the Mental health Unit I was a mature student nurse and when I passed > my RMN my sons delighted in telling everyone that their mum was mental and > had got a certificate to prove it. > You can still buy Sasparilla and Dandelion and Burdock the proper stuff not > the supermarkets versions at Mawsons herb shop at the bottom of George St > Oldham > > Olive I remmember drinking nettle beer at that funny litlle house near > Heysham > Head.My dad said it would do my blood good . > > Bren > >-- Original Message -H > >From: "Ian Winterbottom" <i.winterbottom@ntlworld.com> > >Subject: Re: [LANCSLIFE] Cornets and Royton > >Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 14:59:20 +0100 > >To: LANCSLIFE-L@rootsweb.com > >Reply-To: LANCSLIFE-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > >Coo, Bren, you posh person you. I just missed Chaddy Gram, a mate of mine, > > > >John Regan, went there though. I was a Bulge baby if you remember that (All > > > >the Dads demobbed at the end of the War caused a minor population explosion > > > >that followed our generation up thro' School) and Grammar School places > > > >were desperately short, so as a "Borderline" case I ended up at "Central", > > > >Shaw and Royton amalgamated while I was there. Must admit I hated it there, > > > >I was badly bullied and it is still with me now! Liked the School itself > > > >though, and still love Royton. We used to wear uniform, mostly just the > cap > > > >and then only till someone nicked it and chucked it on the roof. Or the > tie > > > >if someone didn't try to strangle you with it! I can only just remember > > >Tandlehills, it must be a good fifty years back! My Mum took us there a > few > > > >times, I remember really loving it; but living in Shaw as we did it was > > >almost impossible to get to, I remember the monument though. And the > >sweetshop; Turf Lane is just next to Shaw Road End, Nan & Grandad used to > > > >buy us Dolly Mixtures and ice creams from there. I used to visit the Park > > > >too with Nan for the Leonard Cheshire fetes. My Mum and Dad were married > >in > >St Anne's Church just across the road. I've bobbed in and out of Boundary > > > >Park a time or two as well, only as a visitor thank Gawd! A mate of mine > >was > >once in the infamous "Bottom Block" for a time and we used to sneak off > for > > > >a jar in the Mare and Foal over the road! (I've had some funny mates now > >and > >then!). I must keep an eye out for the Granelli's however, see if it still > > > >tasts the same. Tarra, Ian > > > > > >==== LANCSLIFE Mailing List ==== > >Lanky Life -- dialect, slang, and sayings; culture and traditions; history > >of towns and villages; folklore; poetry and songs; recipes; and nostalgic > >essays. > > > >============================== > >New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > >at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta > rgetid=5429 > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005. > Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/ > Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/ > > ______________________________ > > > ==== LANCSLIFE Mailing List ==== > To change from List to Digest mode (or vice versa) or from one e-mail address to another, unsubscribe then resubscribe. See http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/ENG/LANCSLIFE.html > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Hi I'm Keith one of the newies researching my Coles family of Clayton le Moors, when I was a lad we spent many a happy, sunny fortnight camping in Morecambe and I often remember my Mum and Dad treating me to a glass of nettle beer at Heysham, last time we were there, a couple of years ago, not a sign of it and I can't find the recipe anywhere, has anybody any ideas. By the way Heysham Head funfair/circus is well gone but the big 'guess your weight' machine was still in the village. Morecambe seems to have given up on it's resort title even all the funfairs are closed down and the outdoor swimming pool was never going to be a winner. Sorry to sound so negative but we had many happy times there, still looking for that nettle beer recipe though. Take care. -----Original Message----- From: bren.51-don_@tiscali.co.uk [mailto:bren.51-don_@tiscali.co.uk] Sent: 25 May 2005 20:30 To: LANCSLIFE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LANCSLIFE] Cornets and Royton Hi Ian Have got news for you I worked on the bottom block or to give it 's proper name the Mental health Unit I was a mature student nurse and when I passed my RMN my sons delighted in telling everyone that their mum was mental and had got a certificate to prove it. You can still buy Sasparilla and Dandelion and Burdock the proper stuff not the supermarkets versions at Mawsons herb shop at the bottom of George St Oldham Olive I remmember drinking nettle beer at that funny litlle house near Heysham Head.My dad said it would do my blood good . Bren >-- Original Message -H >From: "Ian Winterbottom" <i.winterbottom@ntlworld.com> >Subject: Re: [LANCSLIFE] Cornets and Royton >Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 14:59:20 +0100 >To: LANCSLIFE-L@rootsweb.com >Reply-To: LANCSLIFE-L@rootsweb.com > > >Coo, Bren, you posh person you. I just missed Chaddy Gram, a mate of mine, > >John Regan, went there though. I was a Bulge baby if you remember that (All > >the Dads demobbed at the end of the War caused a minor population explosion > >that followed our generation up thro' School) and Grammar School places > >were desperately short, so as a "Borderline" case I ended up at "Central", > >Shaw and Royton amalgamated while I was there. Must admit I hated it there, > >I was badly bullied and it is still with me now! Liked the School itself > >though, and still love Royton. We used to wear uniform, mostly just the cap > >and then only till someone nicked it and chucked it on the roof. Or the tie > >if someone didn't try to strangle you with it! I can only just remember >Tandlehills, it must be a good fifty years back! My Mum took us there a few > >times, I remember really loving it; but living in Shaw as we did it was >almost impossible to get to, I remember the monument though. And the >sweetshop; Turf Lane is just next to Shaw Road End, Nan & Grandad used to > >buy us Dolly Mixtures and ice creams from there. I used to visit the Park > >too with Nan for the Leonard Cheshire fetes. My Mum and Dad were married >in >St Anne's Church just across the road. I've bobbed in and out of Boundary > >Park a time or two as well, only as a visitor thank Gawd! A mate of mine >was >once in the infamous "Bottom Block" for a time and we used to sneak off for > >a jar in the Mare and Foal over the road! (I've had some funny mates now >and >then!). I must keep an eye out for the Granelli's however, see if it still > >tasts the same. Tarra, Ian > > >==== LANCSLIFE Mailing List ==== >Lanky Life -- dialect, slang, and sayings; culture and traditions; history >of towns and villages; folklore; poetry and songs; recipes; and nostalgic >essays. > >============================== >New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors >at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429 > ___________________________________________________________ Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005. Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/ Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/ ______________________________

james wrote: > Hi there, No big problem but you got the location wrong. <snip> Hi Jim The lack of connection of my brain to my fingers (or is it the other way around?) was pointed out to me on another list, but I forgot to mention it here. You are, of course, correct. It should indeed be Southport and _not_ Stockport. Doh! Best wishes, Lynne

Hi there, No big problem but you got the location wrong. The GRO is in Southport formerly in County of Lancashire but since 1974 redistricting is now within the administrative district called County of Merseyside ie Liverpool et al Signing off Jim Poway California lklein@mindspring.com wrote: > From http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/news/Open_Days.asp: > >> Open Days >> >> We are delighted to inform you that the General Register Office will >> soon be holding its annual Open Days, giving you a chance to find out >> more about how births, deaths and marriages certificates are produced. >> >> However, we don't just produce certificates and the Open Days will >> provide you with the chance to go on an hour-long tour of the >> Office's Smedley Hydro Site where you will: >> >> * view exhibitions from various General Register Office >> departments and from invited external Family History organisations >> * see a demonstration of the certificate production process >> * attend talks relating to various subjects connected with the >> office and other organisations >> >> The Open Days will take place on Saturday June 25, and Saturday, July >> 2 2005 from 10am until 5pm. >> >> Please note that all places must be booked in advance. >> >> If you are interested in attending one of the Open Days, please >> contact the Public Relations Unit on 0151 471 4530 or 0151 471 4419. >> > > No other information available at this time. > > Lynne > > > ==== LANCSLIFE Mailing List ==== > Please keep signature blocks to four lines or less. Do not include > surnames you're researching as that impedes the interactive search > process. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > >

From http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/news/Open_Days.asp: > Open Days > > We are delighted to inform you that the General Register Office will > soon be holding its annual Open Days, giving you a chance to find out > more about how births, deaths and marriages certificates are produced. > > However, we don't just produce certificates and the Open Days will > provide you with the chance to go on an hour-long tour of the Office's > Smedley Hydro Site where you will: > > * view exhibitions from various General Register Office > departments and from invited external Family History organisations > * see a demonstration of the certificate production process > * attend talks relating to various subjects connected with the > office and other organisations > > The Open Days will take place on Saturday June 25, and Saturday, July > 2 2005 from 10am until 5pm. > > Please note that all places must be booked in advance. > > If you are interested in attending one of the Open Days, please > contact the Public Relations Unit on 0151 471 4530 or 0151 471 4419. > No other information available at this time. Lynne

I am looking for some help and guidance trying to find more info as follows; John Hodgkinson, b. 1620 St John's Parish, Lancashire - m.Ann (unknown), she was born (unknown) in Preston, Lancashire. They had a daughter Eleanor b 1636 - m Robert Hoopes and a son John Hodgkinson, Jr, b 1650/51 in Preston Lancashire and died aft. 1689. I would like to know who were the parents, grandparents, great-grand parents and great-great-grandparents of John Hodgkinson, b 1620. Any info will be greatly appreciated. Alan D. Hoskinson United States > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles & Linda" <cap38@verizon.net> > To: "Alan D. Hoskinson" <fuzzyone@alltel.net> > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 4:19 PM > Subject: Hodgkinson > > >> Do you know any of the names of your relatives around Preston? What ages >> or year of birth? There could be many with that name so unless you have >> more details, it would be difficult to search. You could end up with a >> totally different family. Post the names and dates to the list please. >> Have you searched the IGI at www.familysearch.org? >> Have you checked Ellis Island for records of your family's arrival? >> www.ellisislandrecords.org >> Sometimes it lists a relative back home on the manifest. >> Also Ancestry has some free records. Try www.ancestry.com >> >> If you have a specific name and age, I can check the census for you. >> >> >> >> >> > > >

Many thanks for all that help Trying to sum up it seems to be Green-hxlch, where "x" is any of "a", "e" or "o" And, yes, my wife was (nearly) right. Damn these women :-) Cheers Alan

Cheers love, that would be nice. thanks. Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "olive" <olive.cookson@btinternet.com> To: <LANCSLIFE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 9:06 PM Subject: [LANCSLIFE] Sand Castles > Ian > I have just been reading the letters in the Gazette and a lady is talking > about sand castle competitions. > I will read it more thoroughly and send you the bits that are worth > sending, > just for the sake of it. It seems that she won a cup or something. > Olive > > > > ==== LANCSLIFE Mailing List ==== > Scouser.com: http://www.scouser.com/core.html > University of Liverpool: http://www.liv.ac.uk/ > Bolton links: http://bold.bolton.gov.uk/naughton/bolton.htm > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.2.0 - Release Date: 27/05/2005 >

Ian I have just been reading the letters in the Gazette and a lady is talking about sand castle competitions. I will read it more thoroughly and send you the bits that are worth sending, just for the sake of it. It seems that she won a cup or something. Olive

Yes Olive, I know the sort of thing you mean, hav e seen some pictures myself. My Dad also used to build us sad "Cars" and "boats" on Blackpool beach when I was little, and have done the same thing for my kids. That's the sort of thing that stays in your memory! Ian

Hi All, Yes, David, I think that's the right Ridgeway Arms (Chorley & Bolton Rds). Great to see a piccy -- even if the webpage can't seem to agree if it's "Ridegway" or "Ridgway" :-) On another matter, my wife and I have been having a BIG argument on the pronunciation of the name GREEHALGH. She's talking with a Yorkshire background ( wash your mouth out :-) ) while I'm taking about North Lancs. Was there a difference? I see there are a few subscribers on the list with that name, so could you please give us some sort of "phonetic" spelling, I'd be very grateful. (Particularly if it agrees with my pronouciation!) Cheers Alan