Sorry about that jumbled mess of a poem I sent, all the formatting disappeared. I'll try and sort it out in a bit. GAY Gay J Oliver, Stalybridge, Cheshire www.members.aol.com/victoroly/genealogy.htm www.members.aol.com/gayjoliver/Tameside.htm _www.fhsc.org.uk/fhsc/dukinfield.htm_ (http://www.fhsc.org.uk/fhsc/dukinfield.htm) _www.tamesidehistoryforum.org.uk_ (http://www.tamesidehistoryforum.org.uk/)

Well, that certainly got the List stirred up and mouths watering! Thanks to everyone who contributed (and is contributing!). I called it "Meat & Potato Pie" because I thought a lot of younger people would get the wrong idea if I just said "Potato Pie", but I'm glad to see that the shorter name is still widely used. It's what we called it. A "Meat Pie" in our house was made on a flat, shallow (aluminium) pie dish, often with mince and with a crust on top and bottom. And, yes, I love a good Lancashire HotPot, too. But, at least in our part of Manchester (Longsight), a HotPot definitely had no crust. A couple of people mentioned those deep, dark-brown casserole dishes for making Potato Pie and, yes, that's exactly what m' Mum used --- and what every good housewife (nowadays, "house-person"!?) would have in their cupboard. She also used "scrag end", too: Was that "scrag end of neck"? That's a phrase which sticks in my mind. Often my mother would use beef in the pie and, I think she knew it was a bit unusual to use neck of lamb and that's why she always mentioned that she thought it was best. As to accompaniments, it had to be pickles! Pickled onions, Piccalilli (yellow mustard pickle, if I've spelt it right), or red cabbage all were fine. And my mother always used to sprinkle vinegar on the plate too --- the real brown vinegar, not that poncy white stuff. :-) Unusual, I know, but she liked it! She also used to drain off some of the gravy after stewing and before filling the casserole because she said it was better to have a "bit extra on the side". Wonder what people would make of THAT phrase nowadays :-) Incidentally, when my wife (who is a Southerner --- wash your mouth out!) says "pickles" she means ANY sort of pickled stuff. To me "pickles" means pickled onions. Is this just a Lancashire usage, too? Finally, here's a bit of sacrilege! Since I'm the cook in the house and can do what I like gastronomically, whenever I make a Potato Pie, I use self-raising flour but add about a third as much (minced) suet instead of marg or lard. This makes the ultimate in crusts which absorbs even more gravy from the meat and veg and turns the underside into something like delicious, gravy-sodden dumpling while the top is still lovely and crisp. Yum! Sorry, I'm getting too hungry writing this! Must rush off to make dinner before settling down to watch the 4th day of the last test Match (we're in Australia so play starts at 7:30pm --- we hope!) Cheers Alan (from Tassie)

Hi Olive, Loved Aniseed balls, and horrible little boys loved gobstoppers. Just found this poem by dialect poet Samuel Laycock. He was a Stalybridge Poet who wrote this roundabout the time of the Cotton Famine, when lots of people from the cotton towns were emmigrating to America: It mentions pobbies (pobs) in the first verse. Welcome, Bonny Brid! Samuel Laycock (1825–93) THA ’rt welcome, little bonny brid, But should n’t ha’ come just when tha did; Toimes are bad. We ’re short o’ pobbies for eawr Joe, But that, of course, tha did n’t know, 5 Did ta, lad? Aw ’ve often yeard mi feyther tell, ’At when aw coom i’ th’ world misel Trade wur slack; An’ neaw it ’s hard wark pooin’ throo— 10 But aw munno fear thee; iv aw do Tha ’ll go back. Cheer up! these toimes ’ull awter soon; Aw ’m beawn to beigh another spoon — One for thee; 15 An’ as tha ’s sich a pratty face, Aw ’ll let thee have eawr Charley’s place On mi knee. God bless thee, love, aw ’m fain tha ’rt come, Just try an’ mak thisel awhoam: 20 What ar ’t co’d? Tha ’ rt loike thi mother to a tee, But tha ’s thi feyther’s nose, aw see, Well, aw ’m blow’d! Come, come, tha need n’t look so shy, 25 Aw am no’ blackin’ thee, not I; Settle deawn, An’ tak this haup’ney for thisel’, There ’s lots o’ sugar-sticks to sell Deawn i’ th’ teawn. 30 Aw know when furst aw coom to th’ leet Aw ’re fond o’ owt ’at tasted sweet; Tha ’ll be th’ same. But come, tha ’s never towd thi dad What he ’s to co thi yet, mi lad— 35 What ’s thi name? Hush! hush! tha munno cry this way, But get this sope o’ cinder tay While it ’s warm; Mi mother us’d to give it me, 40 When aw wur sich a lad as thee, In her arm. Hush a babby, hush a bee— Oh, what a temper! dear a-me, Heaw tha skroikes! 45 Here ’s a bit o’ sugar, sithee; Howd thi noise, an’ then aw ’ll gie thee Owt tha loikes. We ’n nobbut getten coarsish fare, But eawt o’ this tha ’st ha’ thi share, 50 Never fear. Aw hope tha ’ll never want a meel, But allus fill thi bally weel While tha ’rt here. Thi feyther ’s noan bin wed so long, 55 An’ yet tha sees he ’s middlin’ throng Wi’ yo’ o: Besides thi little brother, Ted, We ’n one up-steers, asleep i’ bed Wi’ eawr Joe. 60 But though we ’n childer two or three, We ’ll make’ a bit o’ reawm for thee— Bless thee, lad! Tha ’rt th’ prattiest brid we han i’ th’ nest; Come, hutch up closer to mi breast— 65 Aw ’m thi dad. Persevere with the dialect - it's rather beautiful, GAY Gay J Oliver, Stalybridge, Cheshire www.members.aol.com/victoroly/genealogy.htm www.members.aol.com/gayjoliver/Tameside.htm _www.fhsc.org.uk/fhsc/dukinfield.htm_ (http://www.fhsc.org.uk/fhsc/dukinfield.htm) _www.tamesidehistoryforum.org.uk_ (http://www.tamesidehistoryforum.org.uk/)

Yesterday swearing? I once was put on bread and water for a month for saying DAM. SuzanneH

arto, bee boes, club, degg, esshole fast,gam. keep. mard, mendin, ponful, sauce,sugar, Lets see how you Lanky folk get on Bren

Sorry folks....the Irish crept in. Should have known if my Dad made it it was from the Irish. Champ - mashed potato, with finely chopped scallions (spring onions), a hole made in the middle with a knob of butter and milk. Colcannon - same as, but with finely chopped wilted or leftover cabbage. I can still remember one Mars Bar sliced up and shared between the family, everyone wanted the end bit with more chocolate, Horlicks or Ovaltine before bed and sneaking spoonfuls from the larder. Bread and butter sprinkled with hundreds and thousands. Sherbert Lemons, Parma Violets, Cherry Lips, Coltsfoot Rock, Treacle Toffee that you had to break up with a hamer, Peanut brittle, Kayli and a hapenny Spanish, American Cream Soda, Lem Fizz, Black Jacks, Fruit Salad, Sherbert Fountains, Mint Imperials. It's no wonder I have weight problems, what with my Mums Chips and Mayo, Waffles, Belgian Chocolates and Beer added to the equation. I've just eaten and am still thinking of food:( GAY Gay J Oliver, Stalybridge, Cheshire www.members.aol.com/victoroly/genealogy.htm www.members.aol.com/gayjoliver/Tameside.htm www.fhsc.org.uk/fhsc/dukinfield.htm www.tamesidehistoryforum.org.uk

Yes, it was Taking the Name in Vain. Years ago you used to get all sorts of "substitutes" like "Gorblimey", "Flippin' Heck", "Goldurn it" and the like. Nowadays they just swear. Makes me wonder what they say when they are REALLY mad if they've used up all the bad language in normal conversation! Oh well! Ian

Which we used to call "Blanket-lifters" because of the effect on the digestion! I don't care, I love them! Ian

If you like "Splodge" try a German one from my daughter-in-law, Red Blob (christened by her kids) which is Mashed potato-and-onion stew with chopped red cabbage and beetroot. VERY highly recommended all the rest of the family now love it, grandkids too! Ian

Certainly got my mouth watering, Alan > A "Meat Pie" in our house was made on a flat, shallow (aluminium) pie > dish, often with mince and with a crust on top and bottom. Same here, Mum called it "plate meat cake" as she used to make it on a white enamel "dish" exactly the size and shape of a "dinner plate". I think with Hot Pot the potatoes are supposed to be the "crust". You're right about the "scrag end of neck" too, I can remember my Nan saying that. As for pickles, you certainly got that right! There were the big stripy onions they used to call "funeral pickles", and I love piccalilli still. Someone has now brought one out with Indian spices in, called Tikkalilli, I recommend it! Used to like Daddies' or HP sauce, too. Anything with a bit of "bite"! Cheers, Ian

Pie Butties! Here in Leigh they were pies on barm cakes and we called them Slappies. Oh I had forgotten about the penny Hovis - lovely. After the swimming baths on Saturday morning we used to go to Woolworths for a penn'orth of broken biscuits. Pamela -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.21/96 - Release Date: 10/09/2005

plus up the duff, shut up that skrieking childt. another two

----- Original Message ----- From: "David Greenhalgh" <davghalgh@lineone.net> To: <LANCSLIFE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [LANCSLIFE] Sayings > "All fur coat and no knickers" was a favourite of my mothers and one I > still use of my very ostentatious neighbours. And following on from the > glass thread another of my mother's referring to glasses was: > "There's more broke than worn out" > > David Greenhalgh > > > At 17:31 10/09/2005, you wrote: > >>what about "fur coat no knickers!" > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 267.10.19 - Release Date: 07/09/2005 > > > ==== LANCSLIFE Mailing List ==== > Lancashire OnLine: http://www.lancashire-online.co.uk/ > Virtual Encyclopedia of Manchester: > http://www.manchester2002-uk.com/index2.html > Dialect: http://www.nyt.co.uk/lancashire.htm > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.21/96 - Release Date: 10/09/2005 >

Hello, As an American cousin, whose ancestors came from Lancashire in the 1860's, I've lost all these wonderful links to the customs and foods of the homeland. I'm wondering if there is someone on this list who might have a recipe for "meat and potato pie" that they would be willing to share? I'd like to try my hand at it, and see what I am missing. We have in the family, a recipe passed from my great grandmother for a sweet pudding of some sort, but it is written with things like "a handful" of this or a"dash" of that, and sometimes measurements that we can't figure out in this day and age. I don't own a copy of it, since it belongs to a cousin who won't share. Can anyone help me out? Kathy Bowlin Missouri, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Hope" <bthopeone@waitrose.com> To: <LANCSLIFE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [LANCSLIFE] re meat and potato pie > Eileen is absolutely right, particularly in her later comments. I am from > St.Helens originally and have graphic memories of buying Roberts' Meat and > Potato pies in their Duke Street shop, together with a Barm cake. Open up > the latter and insert the pie - schoolboy heaven during the war years, but > watch out for Teachers, it wasn't done to eat in the street in school > uniform. They were always tasty, somewhat lacking in meat, but then in > the days of food rationing who could complain. Cheap cuts were the key as > they were for every meal in those days. Buying meat in the market late on > Saturday night was a basic ploy when Butchers had no refrigeration, and > can't you remember all the Tripe Dressers and Pork Butchers with their > pies. In some ways, good old days. > > Brian Hope > On 10 Sep 2005, at 09:03, Littlmum@aol.com wrote: > >> we call the meat and potatoes and onions cooked in the brown dish with a >> crust on Hotpot, >> >> but you can cook the same ingredients in a pan and make a double crust >> pie >> in a baking tin. >> >> staple food for Lancastrians usually to make a small amount of the most >> expensive ingredient go further by adding the vegetables. >> >> >> Eileen (St Helens, Lancashire) >> >> >> ==== LANCSLIFE Mailing List ==== >> Manchester Online: http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ >> The Friends of Real Lancashire: http://www.forl.co.uk/001/intro.html >> Lancashire History and Folklore: http://www.geocities.com/kera2000_uk/ >> >> ============================== >> Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >> areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >> Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >> >> > > ______________________________

Whittles' Bakeries had a place in Littleborough too, my Dad once worked there, Helluva long walk for a five o'clock start coming from Shaw! No buses at that time either. If we'd had to do it we'd've been screaming! Though I have walked from Shaw to Rochdale myself, when on the Buses, or more often set off at 3 am to walk to Newhey for the "Paddy bus" if I had anything earlier than a 6 am start! And of course there were no buses for me either, that's what I was going in for! Ian

Blimey Brian, Pie Butties, that takes me back! The damn things were like eating a doorstep, but who cared? Anyone remember the little "Penny Loaves", Hovis I think? Or the biscuits at playtime, Jammie Dodgers and Wagon Wheels? Ian

> Why did Grandma used to say - get some best butter, what is butter that is > not best? Maggie-Ann, margarine. How about "tin-lally butties", condensed milk sandwiches? > My son now says why do we say you drink out of a plastic glass. He thinks > a glass is a glass, made of glass, his idea is a plastic receptacle. My grandsons look at me "gone out" when I say "Let me get my pants on", meaning trousers. To them "pants" are underwear! When I was younger we also called them "keks" or the more upmarket "strides". Ian

What about Ballyann Day which was Thursday the day before payday. Is that the whole of Lancashire, I know its unknown in Liverpool. Eileen

most certainly Liverpudlian - or conny onny sarnie as well Eileen

"EE wot?" meant something like "Don't you agree?" By Crypers is "By Cripes", a euphemism for ""by C****t", like "By Gum" is for "By G*d", I don't want to offend anyone either! I come from near Rochdale too, and worked on the Buses there for years! Ian