Dear all I have just joined this list. My principle interests in Lancashire and the Manchester/Salford/Warrington areas in particular, are my maternal lines of Barrow and Birchall. The Barrow line is mainly in the Salford area, and Birchall in the Warrington area. My 2 x Great Grandfather, Joseph Barrow (of Bolton) married Mary Beddows (of Horwich) in Manchester Cathedral in 1843. I have found Mary Beddows, daughter of Thomas Beddows and Betty Turner on the 1841 Census reference H0107 548/46 at a place called "Spring Water, Outwood, Township/Parish of Pilkington. FamilySearch.org states this as "Oldham cum Prestwich" I am having difficulty locating this on a map. Can anyone help with this? Stepping back, I can find the marriage of Thomas Beddows to Betty Turner on the Lancashire OPC website ( www.lan-opc.org.uk) but I am confused by an entry a couple of months earlier. Here are the two entries: Marriage: 1 Dec 1822 St Mary the Virgin, Deane, Lancashire, England Thomas Beddows - (X), Crofter, this Parish [Deane] Nancy Turner - X, Spinster, this Parish [Deane] Witness: Abrm. Boardman; John Beddows, (X) Married by Banns by: Thos. Brocklebank, Vicar Register: Marriages 1818 - 1824, Page 198, Entry 592 Source: Manchester Archives microfilm L85/1/3/4 Marriage: 23 Feb 1823 St Mary the Virgin, Deane, Lancashire, England Thomas Beddows - (X), Crofter, this Parish [Deane] Betty Turner - X, Spinster, this Parish [Deane] Witness: Abrm. Boardman; William Beddows Married by Banns by: Thos. Brocklebank, Vicar Register: Marriages 1818 - 1824, Page 213, Entry 637 Source: Manchester Archives microfilm L85/1/3/4 On the face of it, could it be the same Thomas Beddows? Both spouses have the surname Turner I'd welcome any speculation on these. Regards, Neil

Hi, Neil, Welcome to the group. I can't help with your family details, but you are puzzled by a place name “Spring Water, Outwood, Township/Parish of Pilkington”. South-East Lancashire is blessed with a site run by Harry King at https://hking2.sdsu.edu/map_projects/map_projects.htm The site has maps that have been redrawn from the Victorian County History of Lancashire. They are simpler and much clearer than the originals and show the Parish and Township structure of the Hundred of Salford around 1830. I would interpret the address as 'Spring Water' being a house in the hamlet of Outwood in the Township of Pilkington in the Parish of Prestwich-cum-Oldham. To see where this is, have a look at http://www.oldmapsonline.org/ and put Ringley, Lancashire in the search box. You will get an outline modern road map, but at the right hand side there will be a list of maps at different times. I could not see Spring Water on the 1844 map but you quote the 1841 Census - 1841 Census reference H0107 548/46 You may be able tp find the adjacent properties listed in the Census on the map. Hope this helps On 09/08/2018 22:59, Neil Grantham via LANCSGEN wrote: > Dear all > > I have just joined this list. My principle interests in Lancashire and the Manchester/Salford/Warrington areas in particular, are my maternal lines of Barrow and Birchall.

Jim Thanks for the welcome. Looking at the map on 'Oldmaps' I can see now where it is. Unless 'Spring Water' was a large property, there are 25 names (3 families) on the left hand page of the 1841 census all associated to that name. On the right hand page are what looks like Mollineaux and then Rhodes. Seeing the map certainly fits with his profession and subsequent censuses where his is listed as a Bleacher. I can see Bleach works on the map. Can't imagine that was a pleasant living! I've managed to show side by side the 1842 map and 'Google Map' and I see there is an Outwood country park. Regards, Neil ________________________________ From: jim lancaster <lancaster.jim@zen.co.uk> To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 9 August 2018, 23:25 Subject: [LAN] Re: Lancashire Questions Hi, Neil, Welcome to the group. I can't help with your family details, but you are puzzled by a place name “Spring Water, Outwood, Township/Parish of Pilkington”. South-East Lancashire is blessed with a site run by Harry King at https://hking2.sdsu.edu/map_projects/map_projects.htm The site has maps that have been redrawn from the Victorian County History of Lancashire. They are simpler and much clearer than the originals and show the Parish and Township structure of the Hundred of Salford around 1830. I would interpret the address as 'Spring Water' being a house in the hamlet of Outwood in the Township of Pilkington in the Parish of Prestwich-cum-Oldham. To see where this is, have a look at http://www.oldmapsonline.org/ and put Ringley, Lancashire in the search box. You will get an outline modern road map, but at the right hand side there will be a list of maps at different times. I could not see Spring Water on the 1844 map but you quote the 1841 Census - 1841 Census reference H0107 548/46 You may be able tp find the adjacent properties listed in the Census on the map. Hope this helps On 09/08/2018 22:59, Neil Grantham via LANCSGEN wrote: > Dear all > > I have just joined this list. My principle interests in Lancashire and the Manchester/Salford/Warrington areas in particular, are my maternal lines of Barrow and Birchall. _______________________________________________ Be sure mail to the list is in PLAIN TEXT. GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. http://www.genuki.org.uk/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb.com/listindexes/search/lancsgen Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Neil -- a warm welcome from me also. This is just a snippet in case you didn't know. A 'Crofter' -- was a bleacher in the cotton trade. Normally we associate a 'crofter' with someone who owns a little piece of land and grows vegetables etc -- but if you see it as an occupation in Lancashire - it is likely to be a bleacher in the cotton industry. I haven't yet looked at your marriage query - have you tried searching for children by using the father's name and the mother's christian name after the dates of the marriages? That may reveal whether there are 2 couples here, or just one - and the christian name of the bride on one of them was an error. Just a thought. Regards June From: Neil Grantham via LANCSGEN <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> To: "lancsgen@rootsweb.com" <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> Cc: Neil Grantham <neil40@btinternet.com> Sent: Friday, 10 August 2018, 9:48 Subject: [LAN] Re: Lancashire Questions Jim Thanks for the welcome. Looking at the map on 'Oldmaps' I can see now where it is. Unless 'Spring Water' was a large property, there are 25 names (3 families) on the left hand page of the 1841 census all associated to that name. On the right hand page are what looks like Mollineaux and then Rhodes. Seeing the map certainly fits with his profession and subsequent censuses where his is listed as a Bleacher. I can see Bleach works on the map. Can't imagine that was a pleasant living! I've managed to show side by side the 1842 map and 'Google Map' and I see there is an Outwood country park. Regards, Neil

Wasn't it a bit wider than that? A 'croft' was a small area of land by a house that could be used for growing vegetables etc. and was also used when the land was used for laying out cloth whilst bleaching (bleachcroft) and also there was a brickcroft where bricks were left to dry. I suspect it has similar origins to the Scottish usage of crofter. Martin Briscoe Fort William Ancestry DNA, FTDNA (B68554), GEDMatch (A374507) -----Original Message----- From: June Dowling via LANCSGEN [mailto:lancsgen@rootsweb.com] Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:06 AM To: Neil Grantham <neil40@btinternet.com>; lancsgen@rootsweb.com Cc: June Dowling <june.dowling@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [LAN] Re: Lancashire Questions Neil -- a warm welcome from me also. This is just a snippet in case you didn't know. A 'Crofter' -- was a bleacher in the cotton trade. Normally we associate a 'crofter' with someone who owns a little piece of land and grows vegetables etc -- but if you see it as an occupation in Lancashire - it is likely to be a bleacher in the cotton industry.

Martin, Re Crofters -- according to the Index of Old Occupations -- Crofters are described as; Crofters "The wordcroft  in England usually means anenclosed field  adjacent to a farm orproperty.  But, in connection with thetextile trade it usually refers to the process of croft-bleaching. Prior  to dyeing, both yarn andcloth (whether wool, linen and later cotton) had to be  bleached. Before the  introduction of chemical bleaching the strongpowers of sunlight did the job  cheaply,but the process took several weeks. One of the early advances in the  bleaching of cotton and linen was the processof repeated soakings in a solution  ofpotash and lime (bowking), then soaking in buttermilk or bran and waterand  finally laying out in the sunshine,spread out on the grass and hedges in enclosed bleach-crofts.  Butthis  was still a lengthy and expensiveprocess. " It is of course possible that a person may initially have done both things of course, although later I suspect it was undertaken in factories. Regards June From: Martin Briscoe (W10 laptop) <list@mbriscoe.me.uk> To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, 10 August 2018, 10:27 Subject: [LAN] Re: Lancashire Questions Wasn't it a bit wider than that?  A 'croft' was a small area of land by a house that could be used for growing vegetables etc. and was also used when the land was used for laying out cloth whilst bleaching (bleachcroft) and also there was a brickcroft where bricks were left to dry. I suspect it has similar origins to the Scottish usage of crofter. Martin Briscoe Fort William Ancestry DNA, FTDNA (B68554), GEDMatch (A374507)

Oh dear -- I copied and pasted the 'Crofters' definition from the 'old occupations' website and the copy is a bit of a mess - sorry about that, but there are spaces between the words on the actual website, so I am not sure why it appeared on Lancsgen as it did! June From: June Dowling via LANCSGEN <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> To: "martin@mbriscoe.me.uk" <martin@mbriscoe.me.uk>; "lancsgen@rootsweb.com" <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> Cc: June Dowling <june.dowling@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Friday, 10 August 2018, 14:47 Subject: [LAN] Re: Lancashire Questions Martin, Re Crofters -- according to the Index of Old Occupations -- Crofters are described as; Crofters "The wordcroft  in England usually means anenclosed field  adjacent to a farm orproperty.  But, in connection with thetextile trade it usually refers to the process of croft-bleaching. Prior  to dyeing, both yarn andcloth (whether wool, linen and later cotton) had to be  bleached. Before the  introduction of chemical bleaching the strongpowers of sunlight did the job  cheaply,but the process took several weeks. One of the early advances in the  bleaching of cotton and linen was the processof repeated soakings in a solution  ofpotash and lime (bowking), then soaking in buttermilk or bran and waterand  finally laying out in the sunshine,spread out on the grass and hedges in enclosed bleach-crofts.  Butthis  was still a lengthy and expensiveprocess. " It is of course possible that a person may initially have done both things of course, although later I suspect it was undertaken in factories. Regards June

It was perfectly readable so don't worry about it Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 10/08/2018 14:55, June Dowling via LANCSGEN wrote: > Oh dear -- I copied and pasted the 'Crofters' definition from the 'old occupations' website and the copy is a bit of a mess - sorry about that, but there are spaces between the words on the actual website, so I am not sure why it appeared on Lancsgen as it did! > June

Hi Neil, There are some possible bapts on Findmypast for Nancy (18 Oct 1800) and Betty Turner (28 Feb 1802) at Horwich , daughters of William and Betty Turner. Horwich is in the parish of Deane according to Genuki. There are other possibilities so please check. I guess the Barrows and Turners were like many of our ancestors and were not very adventurous with forenames. I recall going on to a farm in Cumbria with you many moons ago where the farmer was a Mr Barrow and was related to you. Small world! Rob Weeks, Preston Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Neil Grantham via LANCSGEN Sent: 10 August 2018 09:48 To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Cc: Neil Grantham Subject: [LAN] Re: Lancashire Questions Jim Thanks for the welcome. Looking at the map on 'Oldmaps' I can see now where it is. Unless 'Spring Water' was a large property, there are 25 names (3 families) on the left hand page of the 1841 census all associated to that name. On the right hand page are what looks like Mollineaux and then Rhodes. Seeing the map certainly fits with his profession and subsequent censuses where his is listed as a Bleacher. I can see Bleach works on the map. Can't imagine that was a pleasant living! I've managed to show side by side the 1842 map and 'Google Map' and I see there is an Outwood country park. Regards, Neil ________________________________ From: jim lancaster <lancaster.jim@zen.co.uk> To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 9 August 2018, 23:25 Subject: [LAN] Re: Lancashire Questions Hi, Neil, Welcome to the group. I can't help with your family details, but you are puzzled by a place name “Spring Water, Outwood, Township/Parish of Pilkington”. South-East Lancashire is blessed with a site run by Harry King at https://hking2.sdsu.edu/map_projects/map_projects.htm The site has maps that have been redrawn from the Victorian County History of Lancashire. They are simpler and much clearer than the originals and show the Parish and Township structure of the Hundred of Salford around 1830. I would interpret the address as 'Spring Water' being a house in the hamlet of Outwood in the Township of Pilkington in the Parish of Prestwich-cum-Oldham. To see where this is, have a look at http://www.oldmapsonline.org/ and put Ringley, Lancashire in the search box. You will get an outline modern road map, but at the right hand side there will be a list of maps at different times. I could not see Spring Water on the 1844 map but you quote the 1841 Census - 1841 Census reference H0107 548/46 You may be able tp find the adjacent properties listed in the Census on the map. Hope this helps On 09/08/2018 22:59, Neil Grantham via LANCSGEN wrote: > Dear all > > I have just joined this list. My principle interests in Lancashire and the Manchester/Salford/Warrington areas in particular, are my maternal lines of Barrow and Birchall. _______________________________________________ Be sure mail to the list is in PLAIN TEXT. GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. http://www.genuki.org.uk/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb.com/listindexes/search/lancsgen Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ Be sure mail to the list is in PLAIN TEXT. GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. http://www.genuki.org.uk/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb.com/listindexes/search/lancsgen Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Rob, Yes, I've had a look. On the Lancs OPC it shows the entries Nancy Turner daughter of William and Betty Turner, baptised 11/1/1801, born 24/10/1800 Betty Turner ditto the parents, baptised 28/3/1802, born 28/2/1802 These fit with the marriage dates and locations. Best Wishes, Neil ________________________________ From: Rob Weeks <robweeks43@gmail.com> To: Neil Grantham <neil40@btinternet.com>; "lancsgen@rootsweb.com" <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> Cc: Neil Grantham <neil40@btinternet.com> Sent: Friday, 10 August 2018, 15:53 Subject: RE: [LAN] Re: Lancashire Questions Hi Neil, There are some possible bapts on Findmypast for Nancy (18 Oct 1800) and Betty Turner (28 Feb 1802) at Horwich , daughters of William and Betty Turner. Horwich is in the parish of Deane according to Genuki. There are other possibilities so please check. I guess the Barrows and Turners were like many of our ancestors and were not very adventurous with forenames. I recall going on to a farm in Cumbria with you many moons ago where the farmer was a Mr Barrow and was related to you. Small world! Rob Weeks, Preston Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Neil Grantham via LANCSGEN Sent: 10 August 2018 09:48 To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Cc: Neil Grantham Subject: [LAN] Re: Lancashire Questions Jim Thanks for the welcome. Looking at the map on 'Oldmaps' I can see now where it is. Unless 'Spring Water' was a large property, there are 25 names (3 families) on the left hand page of the 1841 census all associated to that name. On the right hand page are what looks like Mollineaux and then Rhodes. Seeing the map certainly fits with his profession and subsequent censuses where his is listed as a Bleacher. I can see Bleach works on the map. Can't imagine that was a pleasant living! I've managed to show side by side the 1842 map and 'Google Map' and I see there is an Outwood country park. Regards, Neil ________________________________ From: jim lancaster <lancaster.jim@zen.co.uk> To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 9 August 2018, 23:25 Subject: [LAN] Re: Lancashire Questions Hi, Neil, Welcome to the group. I can't help with your family details, but you are puzzled by a place name “Spring Water, Outwood, Township/Parish of Pilkington”. South-East Lancashire is blessed with a site run by Harry King at https://hking2.sdsu.edu/map_projects/map_projects.htm The site has maps that have been redrawn from the Victorian County History of Lancashire. They are simpler and much clearer than the originals and show the Parish and Township structure of the Hundred of Salford around 1830. I would interpret the address as 'Spring Water' being a house in the hamlet of Outwood in the Township of Pilkington in the Parish of Prestwich-cum-Oldham. To see where this is, have a look at http://www.oldmapsonline.org/ and put Ringley, Lancashire in the search box. You will get an outline modern road map, but at the right hand side there will be a list of maps at different times. I could not see Spring Water on the 1844 map but you quote the 1841 Census - 1841 Census reference H0107 548/46 You may be able tp find the adjacent properties listed in the Census on the map. Hope this helps On 09/08/2018 22:59, Neil Grantham via LANCSGEN wrote: > Dear all > > I have just joined this list. My principle interests in Lancashire and the Manchester/Salford/Warrington areas in particular, are my maternal lines of Barrow and Birchall. _______________________________________________ Be sure mail to the list is in PLAIN TEXT. GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. http://www.genuki.org.uk/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb.com/listindexes/search/lancsgen Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ Be sure mail to the list is in PLAIN TEXT. GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. http://www.genuki.org.uk/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb.com/listindexes/search/lancsgen Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hi Neil.......Genuki is your friend when interested in places: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Pilkington mary lou sun valley, id USA -----Original Message----- From: Neil Grantham via LANCSGEN <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> To: lancsgen <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> Cc: Neil Grantham <neil40@btinternet.com> Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2018 4:00 pm Subject: [LAN] Lancashire Questions Dear all I have just joined this list. My principle interests in Lancashire and the Manchester/Salford/Warrington areas in particular, are my maternal lines of Barrow and Birchall. The Barrow line is mainly in the Salford area, and Birchall in the Warrington area. My 2 x Great Grandfather, Joseph Barrow (of Bolton) married Mary Beddows (of Horwich) in Manchester Cathedral in 1843. I have found Mary Beddows, daughter of Thomas Beddows and Betty Turner on the 1841 Census reference H0107 548/46 at a place called "Spring Water, Outwood, Township/Parish of Pilkington. FamilySearch.org states this as "Oldham cum Prestwich" I am having difficulty locating this on a map. Can anyone help with this? Stepping back, I can find the marriage of Thomas Beddows to Betty Turner on the Lancashire OPC website ( www.lan-opc.org.uk) but I am confused by an entry a couple of months earlier. Here are the two entries: Marriage: 1 Dec 1822 St Mary the Virgin, Deane, Lancashire, England Thomas Beddows - (X), Crofter, this Parish [Deane] Nancy Turner - X, Spinster, this Parish [Deane] Witness: Abrm. Boardman; John Beddows, (X) Married by Banns by: Thos. Brocklebank, Vicar Register: Marriages 1818 - 1824, Page 198, Entry 592 Source: Manchester Archives microfilm L85/1/3/4 Marriage: 23 Feb 1823 St Mary the Virgin, Deane, Lancashire, England Thomas Beddows - (X), Crofter, this Parish [Deane] Betty Turner - X, Spinster, this Parish [Deane] Witness: Abrm. Boardman; William Beddows Married by Banns by: Thos. Brocklebank, Vicar Register: Marriages 1818 - 1824, Page 213, Entry 637 Source: Manchester Archives microfilm L85/1/3/4 On the face of it, could it be the same Thomas Beddows? Both spouses have the surname Turner I'd welcome any speculation on these. Regards, Neil _______________________________________________ Be sure mail to the list is in PLAIN TEXT. GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. http://www.genuki.org.uk/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb.com/listindexes/search/lancsgen Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Ringley is a short distance south of Little Lever. Little Lever is just to the east of Bolton. I could not find any mention of Outwood or Spring Water in my 1894 map. But a Google search says Outwood and Pilkington are in the Ringley area. Mike Morris  Toronto Canada From: Mary Lou via LANCSGEN <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> To: neil40@btinternet.com; lancsgen@rootsweb.com Cc: Mary Lou <mlou1173@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 7:38 PM Hi Neil.......Genuki is your friend when interested in places: <snip>

Outwood is just South of Radcliffe. You can see a range of 25" map on the NLS website but the earliest is about 1890. Also 6" maps back to 1850. https://maps.nls.uk/ Martin Briscoe Fort William Ancestry DNA, FTDNA (B68554), GEDMatch (A374507) -----Original Message----- From: Mike Morris [mailto:morrisind@rogers.com] Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:54 AM To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Subject: [LAN] Re: Lancashire Questions Ringley is a short distance south of Little Lever. Little Lever is just to the east of Bolton. I could not find any mention of Outwood or Spring Water in my 1894 map. But a Google search says Outwood and Pilkington are in the Ringley area. Mike Morris Toronto Canada

From the British Newspaper Archive Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser - Saturday 12 January 1839 Image C THE BRITISH LIBRARY BOARD. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. PILKINGTON. During the storm on Monday, Mr. Philip Buckley's chimney, about 40 yards high fell, and seriously damaged the roof.- Messrs. Astburv and Chritchley's chimney was blown down.-The chimney of Alfred Thomas, Esq., of Spring Water, fell through the roof and the family would doubt have been killed had they not risen, under the apprehension of some accident - Two barns belonging to Mr. John Taylor, of Outwood,-also one belonging to Mrs. Hilton and another to Mr. Hall, were totally destroyed. Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser - Saturday 15 April 1843 Image C THE BRITISH LIBRARY BOARD. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. MR. THOMAS BRlGGS begs to announce to the public, that he has received instructions from Messrs. Alfred Thomas-and Company, (in consequence of their declining farming) to SELL BY AUCTION, on Friday the 23th day of April, 1843, at their works, situate at Spring Water, Pilkington, in the parish of Prestwich, and county of Lancaster, all their Valuable FARMING STOCK comprising .... Martin Briscoe Fort William Ancestry DNA, FTDNA (B68554), GEDMatch (A374507) -----Original Message----- From: Neil Grantham via LANCSGEN [mailto:lancsgen@rootsweb.com] Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 11:00 PM To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Cc: Neil Grantham <neil40@btinternet.com> Subject: [LAN] Lancashire Questions Dear all I have just joined this list. My principle interests in Lancashire and the Manchester/Salford/Warrington areas in particular, are my maternal lines of Barrow and Birchall. The Barrow line is mainly in the Salford area, and Birchall in the Warrington area. My 2 x Great Grandfather, Joseph Barrow (of Bolton) married Mary Beddows (of Horwich) in Manchester Cathedral in 1843. I have found Mary Beddows, daughter of Thomas Beddows and Betty Turner on the 1841 Census reference H0107 548/46 at a place called "Spring Water, Outwood, Township/Parish of Pilkington. FamilySearch.org states this as "Oldham cum Prestwich" I am having difficulty locating this on a map. Can anyone help with this?

On 09/08/2018 22:59, Neil Grantham via LANCSGEN wrote: > Dear all > > I have just joined this list. My principle interests in Lancashire and the Manchester/Salford/Warrington areas in particular, are my maternal lines of Barrow and Birchall. > The Barrow line is mainly in the Salford area, and Birchall in the Warrington area. > > <snip> > > Stepping back, I can find the marriage of Thomas Beddows to Betty Turner on the Lancashire OPC website ( > www.lan-opc.org.uk) but I am confused by an entry a couple of months earlier. Here are the two entries: > > Marriage: 1 Dec 1822 St Mary the Virgin, Deane, Lancashire, England > Thomas Beddows - (X), Crofter, this Parish [Deane] > Nancy Turner - X, Spinster, this Parish [Deane] > Witness: Abrm. Boardman; John Beddows, (X) > Married by Banns by: Thos. Brocklebank, Vicar > Register: Marriages 1818 - 1824, Page 198, Entry 592 > Source: Manchester Archives microfilm L85/1/3/4 > > > Marriage: 23 Feb 1823 St Mary the Virgin, Deane, Lancashire, England > Thomas Beddows - (X), Crofter, this Parish [Deane] > Betty Turner - X, Spinster, this Parish [Deane] > Witness: Abrm. Boardman; William Beddows > Married by Banns by: Thos. Brocklebank, Vicar > Register: Marriages 1818 - 1824, Page 213, Entry 637 > Source: Manchester Archives microfilm L85/1/3/4 > > On the face of it, could it be the same Thomas Beddows? Both spouses have the surname Turner > I'd welcome any speculation on these. > If you search LAN-OPC for children born to Thomas Beddows in the 10 years after 1822 you will see intermixed children born to Thomas and Nancy and also to Thomas and Betty (there are also Thomas and Margaret which IIRC is the "Sunday name" for Betty).   So it wasn't a case of Nancy dying and Betty taking her place. There do seem to be two distinct families (unless there was some polygamy going on). The fact that both marriages took place in the same church, by the same Vicar, appears to rule out any irregularity in the second marriage. The two Thomases wouldn't be brothers but could have been cousins, researching the Beddows witnesses (John & William) might shed some light on this. > Bob C > > http://www.bccy.org.uk > and > http://extra.bccy.org.uk

Hi Neil. I'm interested to know who Joseph's parents were and where my Joseph Barrow may fit in. I have a Joseph Barrow (baptised Bolton 12 Feb 1782 to James B. and Mary Holland) marrying Alice Lomax on 17 Dec 1802. Phil Sent from my Samsung Galaxy A3 2016 - powered by Three -------- Original message --------From: Neil Grantham via LANCSGEN <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> Date: 09/08/2018 22:59 (GMT+00:00) To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Cc: Neil Grantham <neil40@btinternet.com> Subject: [LAN] Lancashire Questions Dear all I have just joined this list. My principle interests in Lancashire and the Manchester/Salford/Warrington areas in particular, are my maternal lines of Barrow and Birchall.