From: Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> If you post the name and details of the man in WW1 we can look further but keep in mind that roughly two thirds of WW1 service records were lost in WW2 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) HI Nivard, I have a gr uncle who was very dear to my grandmother (her favourite uncle). I think he may have died in WW1 or perhaps even been executed? (I know it sounds strange, and a story of why this may have happened going through my mind is ever stranger, but it would be only guesswork by putting togeter different stories). She never spoke of him at all other than to suggest I name one of my children after him. She mentioned she had uncles in WW1 and they used to read out over assembly when she was I primary school all the names of the dead, and that was how they usually found out about their relatives!..and how she hated those assemblies with hours of names being read out sometimes. She lived in Manchester. Hugh Scott Henry Birth - Ireland, Civil Registration Births Index, 1864-1958 - Ancestry.co.uk Date of Registration:Jan-Feb-Mar 1885 Registration district:Belfast Birth Country:Ireland Volume:1 Page:243 FHL Film Number:101060 his WW1 military service as far as I can find so far. 26 Nov 1914- 18 Jan 1915 • 21 Carlton Avenue, Moss Side, occ. fireman? (should have been Wireman), unmarried, pension record Annie Henry down as mother Enlistment -army wrote age down as 25yrs 8mths, should have been 29yrs 8 mths (probably heard a 9 instead of a 5, as sound similar-not in Hugh's handwriting, he only signed enlistment paper) 23rd Service Battalion Manchester Reg 21799 or 21499 (i can't make it out)1914-1915 • 21 Carlton Ave, Moss Side, Manchester 23rd Battalion, Manchester regiment . 21799 (or 21499) . Bantam (for men 5ft to 5'3") = 23rd battalion. http://www.wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/battalion.php?pid=1087 18 Jan 1915 • 21 Carlton Avenue, Mosside Manchester "not being likely to become an efficient soldier" (likely too small), height 5ft 2in, chest on expansion 36 in, expansion 2.5in. https://www.pinterest.com/martynstanley/manchester-regiment-ww1/ . https://www.pinterest.com/pin/478155685417529293/ then IF the same person , I get from the British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920 on ancestry Hugh Scott Henry - Military 1915-1920 • France IF SAME PERSON : Kings Liverpool Reg 108002, then Connaught Rangers 32425...France 22 Dec 1915, Medals Victory British star , 3 entries I found a Roll of honour Board near where he lived, maybe where he worked? Hugh Scott Henry -Military 1916 • 12 Harter St, Manchester roll of Honour Board 1914-1916 has a H.S. Henry Would of been a possible place of work as Harter St is close enough to 21 Carlton St Manchester (both places still exist 2016) then I found this (again, maybe not the same person) 7 Jun 1920 or 1921 or 1928 • Deserted 7/6/20, DISC Para 378 (18) K.R (1928). treated as "desertion". Possibly making a stand to support the Irish (timing earlier than 'mutiny'). (protesting British army treatment in Ireland) . http://irishmedals.org/connaught-rangers-mutiny.html . http://www.1916rising.com/pic_indianmutiny.html or possibly if he was in the desert in Nth Africa, maybe he just deserted. I heard from my grandmother that the men got sand underneath a certain part of their body and the pain was so constant and intense they could barely cope. She didn't mention who but it had to be someone she knew or that a friend knew. The thing is, My grandmother is very dear to me, and she wouldn't like this person if he was not a really nice person. I do not know if this is the same person or not. I cannot find any records after this of Hugh Scott Henry. Any help appreciated, Jan Noack

> Hugh Scott Henry > > Birth - Ireland, Civil Registration Births Index, 1864-1958 - > Ancestry.co.uk Date of Registration:Jan-Feb-Mar 1885 > Registration district:Belfast > Birth Country:Ireland > Volume:1 > Page:243 > FHL Film Number:101060 > Looking at irishgenealogy.ie (a free site), this chap is born 5 Jan 1885 to James Henry ("machine master" of 53 Riga St, Belfast) and his wife, Mary Ann formerly Mhaffey(?). They appear to be at 95 Sussex St, Broughton, Salford, in the 1901 Census. Only you can say whether this is your chap or not. What appears to be him is then in both "British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920" and "British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920" on Ancestry." He volunteered 26 November 1914 for the 23rd Battalion, Manchester Regiment. This was a "Bantam" battalion (see http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/manchester-regiment/) formed earlier that month for guys who did not meet the regulation height but could demonstrate being fit enough to compensate. He gave his address as 21 Carlton Avenue, Moss side, Manchester, age 25y 8m (i.e. b1889). Occupation definitely reads fireman but if you have documentary evidence of wireman, I'm not arguing! Next of kin, Annie Henry (mother) of the same address. His medical history sheet in there confirms he was born Belfast. NB having a record in "British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920" does NOT mean that he had a pension - no-one quite knows why the so-called Pension records contain the papers that they do. Only you can say whether this is your chap or not. He was allocated number 21799 in the Manchesters and was discharged 18 Jan 1915, "not being likely to become an efficient soldier". Yes, "likely too small" is a possibility. There is a note of a form being sent to the Chief Constable of Manchester 23 Dec 1915 - this could be anything from evidence that he'd already tried to do his bit, to references if he were trying to join the police, to evidence if he were in trouble with the police. And that is it for his Army career. **According to those papers** he never signed up again, so he could not be any of the other guys, he did not receive any medals, did not desert, didn't go to France, etc, etc. In particular, he's not the Hugh Scott Henry of the Kings Liverpool Regiment, etc. Now, it is not impossible that he did sign up again but if he was too small the first time, it's not likely he grew any. In addition, he's actually **supposed** to give details of any previous service and if he had done so, then the forms would have been connected up and his first lot and second lot should have been kept together. If he gave a false name on any 2nd enlistment, then, of course, all bets are off. Adrian B

Hi Jan Sorry for the delay I got busy with other things Adrian appears to have covered most things I would agree with him that the second man you thought was him, wasn't connected The record showing he was discharged "not likely to become an efficient soldier" is unlikely to be due to his height, its more likely he was infirm, or incapable of getting to a fitter state, ie flat feet etc Curiously you have to have normal arched feet to be shot at ;-) Other than that I would say he gave a false age to better enable him to join up, the giving of Annie HENRY as his mother being next of kin backs that thought up I checked the 1939 NIR for a HENRY with that birth date, the nearest I found was a Frank HENRY born 5th Jan 1886 he was in Blackrod Lancashire and single There does not appear to be a death record for him in England or Wales, perhaps he returned to Ireland or went overseas? If he was dear to your grandmother its highly unlikely he was shot or executed, most families would have expunged him from family memory if he had, its far more likely he emigrated IMHO He was in England in 1891, 1901 & 1911, in 1911 he is 24 shaving two years off his age The reference to North Africa I suspect refers to WW2 and the desert rats rather than WW1 He would be to old for WW2 service Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > HI Nivard, > > I have a gr uncle who was very dear to my grandmother (her favourite > uncle). > I think he may have died in WW1 or perhaps even been executed? (I know it > sounds strange, and a story of why this may have happened going through my > mind is ever stranger, but it would be only guesswork by putting togeter > different stories). She never spoke of him at all other than to suggest I > name one of my children after him. She mentioned she had uncles in WW1 and > they used to read out over assembly when she was I primary school all the > names of the dead, and that was how they usually found out about their > relatives!..and how she hated those assemblies with hours of names being > read out sometimes. She lived in Manchester. > > > Hugh Scott Henry > > Birth - Ireland, Civil Registration Births Index, 1864-1958 - > Ancestry.co.uk Date of Registration:Jan-Feb-Mar 1885 > Registration district:Belfast > Birth Country:Ireland > Volume:1 > Page:243 > FHL Film Number:101060 > > > his WW1 military service as far as I can find so far. > 26 Nov 1914- 18 Jan 1915 • 21 Carlton Avenue, Moss Side, occ. fireman? > (should have been Wireman), unmarried, pension record Annie Henry down as > mother > > Enlistment -army wrote age down as 25yrs 8mths, should have been 29yrs 8 > mths (probably heard a 9 instead of a 5, as sound similar-not in Hugh's > handwriting, he only signed enlistment paper) 23rd Service Battalion > Manchester Reg 21799 or 21499 (i can't make it out)1914-1915 • 21 Carlton > Ave, Moss Side, Manchester > > 23rd Battalion, Manchester regiment . 21799 (or 21499) . Bantam (for men > 5ft to 5'3") = 23rd battalion. > http://www.wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/battalion.php?pid=1087 > > > 18 Jan 1915 • 21 Carlton Avenue, Mosside Manchester > > "not being likely to become an efficient soldier" (likely too small), > height 5ft 2in, chest on expansion 36 in, expansion 2.5in. > https://www.pinterest.com/martynstanley/manchester-regiment-ww1/ . > https://www.pinterest.com/pin/478155685417529293/ > > then IF the same person , I get from the British Army WWI Medal Rolls > Index Cards, 1914-1920 on ancestry > > Hugh Scott Henry - > Military > 1915-1920 • France > IF SAME PERSON : Kings Liverpool Reg 108002, then Connaught Rangers > 32425...France 22 Dec 1915, Medals Victory British star , 3 entries > > I found a Roll of honour Board near where he lived, maybe where he worked? > Hugh Scott Henry -Military > 1916 • 12 Harter St, Manchester > roll of Honour Board 1914-1916 has a H.S. Henry Would of been a possible > place of work as Harter St is close enough to 21 Carlton St Manchester > (both places still exist 2016) > > > then I found this (again, maybe not the same person) > > 7 Jun 1920 or 1921 or 1928 • Deserted 7/6/20, DISC Para 378 (18) K.R (1928). > > treated as "desertion". Possibly making a stand to support the Irish > (timing earlier than 'mutiny'). (protesting British army treatment in > Ireland) . http://irishmedals.org/connaught-rangers-mutiny.html . > http://www.1916rising.com/pic_indianmutiny.html > > or possibly if he was in the desert in Nth Africa, maybe he just deserted. > I heard from my grandmother that the men got sand underneath a certain part > of their body and the pain was so constant and intense they could barely > cope. She didn't mention who but it had to be someone she knew or that a > friend knew. > > The thing is, My grandmother is very dear to me, and she wouldn't like this > person if he was not a really nice person. I do not know if this is the > same person or not. > > I cannot find any records after this of Hugh Scott Henry. > > Any help appreciated, > Jan Noack