Tony - re the apparently unconnected Allman being buried in a family plot, I have seen what we would regard as odd things happening even with family owned plots. In one instance a family owned a plot in a Manchester grave yard and suffered badly from infant mortality. All their children were buried in the same family owned plot apart from one. That was an intermediate death so it wasn't a case of the plot not yet being bought or being full. Eventually I twigged that the odd plot was used for another burial that same day and it was owned by a near neighbour - so both families must have come to a melancholy agreement to save grave diggers' fees. I don't think your case sounds similar but I think the point is that people at that time may have had a pragmatic view that we would find odd today. Maybe the two Allman families were distantly connected, maybe they were friends, maybe the offer was made in chapel to save the indignity of a pauper burial.... Adrian On 10 Feb 2016 10:55 pm, "Tony Spendel via" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Quiet mailing list. (Mike Morris) > > Well here’s a query or 4 for anyone… I have lots more. > > I am researching the Allman family of Denbighshire, Flintshire, Cheshire > and Shropshire - this has now expanded to the North West. > > Currently I am focussed on Manchester Allmans. > > I am trying to match up marriages between a John Allman and an Elizabeth. > > On the 1851 census I have a John Allman b Flintshire living with Elizabeth > and Jane and a lodger on Vauxhall Row, Collyhurst Road, Manchester. The > same John is at 85 Hart Street, Manchester on the 1861 census but with a > new wife as Elizabeth has died. (He eventually moves back to Wales) Her > burial details are: > Elizabeth ALLMAN, > 21 Jun 1858 > Vauxhall Road COLLYHURST > MANCHESTER CHEETHAM HILL WESLEYAN CEMETERY > Aged 53 (1805) > Grave No 3596 (owner John ALLMAN) > > On the burial register, there is a burial below this - blank - suspect > it’s a still-born baby although Elizabeth would be 53 at that time. > > I have a John Allman b outside of Lancashire and an Elizabeth Allman b in > Lancashire on the 1841 census at Union Street, Salford with 3 others. John > is described as a ‘Distiller’ and given that by 1851 John is a ‘Bar > Retailer’ my working hypothesis is that these are one and the same. > Q1 WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THIS? > > There is a further confusion with this family in that they have Jane > Allman as their daughter. The Jane Allman that fits this age is born to > Isaac Allman (Tailor) and marries William Spence in 1867 where she gives > her address as Vauxhall Street. > > Now it gets confusing… > Elizabeth (above) is buried in Grave 3596, the owner of which is one John > ALLMAN > In the same grave is: > John Frederick ALLMAN > 2 Oct 1853 > Stephen Street SALFORD > MANCHESTER CHEETHAM HILL WESLEYAN CEMETERY > Aged 4 > OWNER John ALLMAN > Grave No 3596 > > The only John Frederick to fit this is one born to John and Sarah ALLMAN > who are on the census for 1841 through 1861 and in 1851 live on St Stephen > street. > Q2 ARE ST STEPHEN STREET AND STEPHEN STREET ONE AND THE SAME? > Q3 WHY WOULD JOHN FREDERICK BE BURIED IN GRAVE 3596? (There doesn’t appear > to be any family links.) > > MOVING ON… > The marriage I have (tentatively) for this John b Flintshire is in Bangor, > Flintshire 28 Dec 1833 to Elizabeth BENNETT. (John is born 1811 to John and > Eleanor) Given that on the census Elizabeth is down as b IN (Lancashire) > in 1841; and b Manchester in 1851. It seems unlikely this could be so. > Q4 IS THERE AN ALTERNATIVE MARRIAGE FOR THIS JOHN? > > It would be interesting if anyone could help out. > Cheers > Tony > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No > fees! > > The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message