... I lost the will to live half way through reading that.. ! I agree it’s complicated but need it be that bad...? It’s no wonder Ancestry gets the indexing wrong sometimes.. I think it will remain controversial... how can a Lancastrian ever become a Merseysidian? Jane Lucas > On 27 Nov 2017, at 20:39, Martin Briscoe (W10 laptop) <[email protected]> wrote: > > And don't forget Ceremonial Counties. > > > > Martin Briscoe > Fort William > > > -----Original Message----- > From: LANCSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Adrian Bruce > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 7:07 PM > To: LancsGen Mailing List <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [LAN] Lancashire Day > > On 27 Nov 2017 4:10 p.m., "Jane Lucas" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I think many people, especially those not interested in family/local history, don’t know the difference between administrative and geographic counties… > > > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. http://www.genuki.org.uk/ > > > Contact the list administrator at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

And don't forget Ceremonial Counties. Martin Briscoe Fort William -----Original Message----- From: LANCSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Adrian Bruce Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 7:07 PM To: LancsGen Mailing List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [LAN] Lancashire Day On 27 Nov 2017 4:10 p.m., "Jane Lucas" <[email protected]> wrote: I think many people, especially those not interested in family/local history, don’t know the difference between administrative and geographic counties…

On 27 Nov 2017 4:10 p.m., "Jane Lucas" <[email protected]> wrote: I think many people, especially those not interested in family/local history, don’t know the difference between administrative and geographic counties… Have a look round Wikipedia in particular, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counties_of_England You may need a stiff drink or plenty of strong coffee when you get to the Metropolitan Counties! In reality, things are probably too complex to ever get one single system that satisfies everyone, from those who have a hankering for the old historical counties to the Twittering inhabitants of Merseyside. there was plenty of twitter abuse in the summer when commentators talked about the Open Golf at Birkdale as Birkdale in Lancashire. Nice one - I shall add that to my Streets of Birmingham argument for using the new counties when appropriate on the calendar. Adrian

It did pass me by so thanks for the ‘heads up’. I think many people, especially those not interested in family/local history, don’t know the difference between administrative and geographic counties… it is utterly confusing. Merseyside is a metropolitan County, but what does that mean, and where does Sefton fit in.. ? I just quickly googled these questions to find that top searches are: “is Merseyside in Lancashire: Is Sefton in Merseyside: Is Sefton in Lancashire” ….. and so on.. I’m not the only one confused. I was born in Southport, Lancashire and I think of myself as ‘from’ Lancashire, though I haven’t lived there for nearly 50 years. I am not from Merseyside because the name has no meaning for me in terms of a sense of place. I sort of assumed that was similar for others. However, there was plenty of twitter abuse in the summer when commentators talked about the Open Golf at Birkdale as Birkdale in Lancashire. If I was born today in Southport, my sense of place would be Merseyside. Happy Lancashire day! > On 27 Nov 2017, at 13:56, Lynne <[email protected]> wrote: > > Whoops! I forgot. Thanks for reminding us, Bob, and a happy Lancashire Day to all! > > Lynne > > > familyhistory <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> I hope that the fact that today is Lancashire Day has not passed by the >> denizens of this Lancashire list unnoticed <snip> > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. http://www.genuki.org.uk/ > > > Contact the list administrator at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I think it depends very much on personal history what jurisdictions you use in your place names. I confess that only recently I actually altered my database to use the contemporary authorities for post 1974, rather than the historical counties. Part of my reason was that the understanding of the historical names is vanishing. On another list, someone made what I thought was a good point: "Go onto the streets of Birmingham and ask them whether they're in the West Midlands or Warwickshire. Most will say 'West Midlands' as Warwickshire is a rural county down the road and nothing to do with them". Another point is that I felt uncomfortable ignoring part of my father's death certificate in favour of what I thought it should read. I take care to use the contemporary names elsewhere - Cape Colony in the 1820s, rather than South Africa, eg. So in the end, I moved to contemporary names for our own counties and equivalents. Doesn't mean that I don't appreciate their rich heritage, of course.

Thank you Bob for the interesting links you provided. The alteration to county boundaries really gets on my nerves! Not only that, I live in a Lancashire town which became a 'Unitary Authority' - hence it is not governed by Lancashire County Council. It is very much in Lancashire though - BUT - I travel 1 mile from my home and come to a road sign saying 'Welcome to Lancashire'! It makes my blood boil! How dare they? June (now very narky). From: familyhistory <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, 27 November 2017, 9:34 Subject: [LAN] Lancashire Day I hope that the fact that today is Lancashire Day has not passed by the denizens of this Lancashire list unnoticed : http://www.forl.co.uk/lancashire-day and just to set the record straight on the identity of Lancashire : http://www.forl.co.uk/online-resources/the-beginning-of-the-confusion tries to shed light on the issue.  In 1974 we lost the whole of Furness but got a bit of Yorkshire in exchange (was this a fair trade ?) This issue can confuse folk when researching earlier F.H. as places like Coniston which were/are in Lancashire (depending on your definition) now appear in record collections for "Cumbria". -- Bob C http://www.bccy.org.uk and http://extra.bccy.org.uk :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information.  http://www.genuki.org.uk/ Contact the list administrator  at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sounds quite like Salt's Mill, near here in Saltaire, outside Bradford, West Yorkshire. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salts_Mill and http://www.saltsmill.org.uk/ Colin PS Happy Lancashire Day from here in Yorkshire! On 26/11/17 23:45, ANNE wrote: > We have a similar issue here but one enterprising individual solved > one problem by buying an old cotton factory and turning it into a > venue for struggling artists and craftsmen.   The rent is nominal and > it gives the artists a comfortable working environment. There are > other entrepreneurs in there too like a small printing company, a web > designer and an architect. The top floor is the public space with an > entertainment space which can be rented for special events, a > cafeteria, a gift shop and showroom space.  You can also watch the > artisans at work on the ground floor and they sell their wares in the > gift shop. > > It truly is an amazing place to go.  I went there this summer for a > Sesquicentennial quilt display that was travelling across Canada this > year and I really enjoyed watching the craftsmen and seeing their > work. It beat demolishing these factories and turning them into > concrete jungles or your everyday shopping centre. > I now keep my eye out for other special events happening there. And > the beauty of it is that the parking is plentiful and free on theses > abandoned factory lots! > > Anne in Hamilton, Ontario > > > -----Original Message----- From: Robyn Clarke > Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 6:06 PM > To: 'Lynne' ; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [LAN] Historic England launches campaign to save former > textile mills > > Hi Everyone, > This is a comment from my dear friend who lives in Lancashire. She > tells me > the Subject has been on their local news quite a bit lately. > > Ironic that Lancashire County Council has closed the two working Mill > museums, Helmshore and Queen St.  Three of our fairly local old mills > have > become shopping places, Ossy Mills being the closest to me, then > Pendleton > Village Mill which moved there from Barden Mill, now demolished. Boundary > Mill demolished the original site quite quickly and erected a huge > soulless > structure.  Ossy Mills has a time tunnel of the history.  Peter > Hargreaves > who set it up, is distantly related to James Hargreaves who invented the > spinning Jenny. > > My thoughts - Hindsight is a wonderful thing when it comes to lost > historical treasures, where does one start.  Just look around your own > Cities and watch how developers seem to be able to twist the Council's > planning laws to suit their greed, as well the pressures put on the > owners/residents who happen to live in their paths of destruction. > Thankfully the media has brought some of these new developments to the > communities' attention and more questions are being asked of local > Building > authorities before blind approval is given. > > Cheers, > Robyn > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. > http://www.genuki.org.uk/ > > > Contact the list administrator  at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. > http://www.genuki.org.uk/ > > > Contact the list administrator  at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Colin Spiller [email protected]

Hi Everyone, This is a comment from my dear friend who lives in Lancashire. She tells me the Subject has been on their local news quite a bit lately. Ironic that Lancashire County Council has closed the two working Mill museums, Helmshore and Queen St. Three of our fairly local old mills have become shopping places, Ossy Mills being the closest to me, then Pendleton Village Mill which moved there from Barden Mill, now demolished. Boundary Mill demolished the original site quite quickly and erected a huge soulless structure. Ossy Mills has a time tunnel of the history. Peter Hargreaves who set it up, is distantly related to James Hargreaves who invented the spinning Jenny. My thoughts - Hindsight is a wonderful thing when it comes to lost historical treasures, where does one start. Just look around your own Cities and watch how developers seem to be able to twist the Council's planning laws to suit their greed, as well the pressures put on the owners/residents who happen to live in their paths of destruction. Thankfully the media has brought some of these new developments to the communities' attention and more questions are being asked of local Building authorities before blind approval is given. Cheers, Robyn --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

I hope that the fact that today is Lancashire Day has not passed by the denizens of this Lancashire list unnoticed : http://www.forl.co.uk/lancashire-day and just to set the record straight on the identity of Lancashire : http://www.forl.co.uk/online-resources/the-beginning-of-the-confusion tries to shed light on the issue.  In 1974 we lost the whole of Furness but got a bit of Yorkshire in exchange (was this a fair trade ?) This issue can confuse folk when researching earlier F.H. as places like Coniston which were/are in Lancashire (depending on your definition) now appear in record collections for "Cumbria". -- Bob C http://www.bccy.org.uk and http://extra.bccy.org.uk

Whoops! I forgot. Thanks for reminding us, Bob, and a happy Lancashire Day to all! Lynne familyhistory <[email protected]> wrote: >I hope that the fact that today is Lancashire Day has not passed by the >denizens of this Lancashire list unnoticed <snip>

We have a similar issue here but one enterprising individual solved one problem by buying an old cotton factory and turning it into a venue for struggling artists and craftsmen. The rent is nominal and it gives the artists a comfortable working environment. There are other entrepreneurs in there too like a small printing company, a web designer and an architect. The top floor is the public space with an entertainment space which can be rented for special events, a cafeteria, a gift shop and showroom space. You can also watch the artisans at work on the ground floor and they sell their wares in the gift shop. It truly is an amazing place to go. I went there this summer for a Sesquicentennial quilt display that was travelling across Canada this year and I really enjoyed watching the craftsmen and seeing their work. It beat demolishing these factories and turning them into concrete jungles or your everyday shopping centre. I now keep my eye out for other special events happening there. And the beauty of it is that the parking is plentiful and free on theses abandoned factory lots! Anne in Hamilton, Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Robyn Clarke Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 6:06 PM To: 'Lynne' ; [email protected] Subject: Re: [LAN] Historic England launches campaign to save former textile mills Hi Everyone, This is a comment from my dear friend who lives in Lancashire. She tells me the Subject has been on their local news quite a bit lately. Ironic that Lancashire County Council has closed the two working Mill museums, Helmshore and Queen St. Three of our fairly local old mills have become shopping places, Ossy Mills being the closest to me, then Pendleton Village Mill which moved there from Barden Mill, now demolished. Boundary Mill demolished the original site quite quickly and erected a huge soulless structure. Ossy Mills has a time tunnel of the history. Peter Hargreaves who set it up, is distantly related to James Hargreaves who invented the spinning Jenny. My thoughts - Hindsight is a wonderful thing when it comes to lost historical treasures, where does one start. Just look around your own Cities and watch how developers seem to be able to twist the Council's planning laws to suit their greed, as well the pressures put on the owners/residents who happen to live in their paths of destruction. Thankfully the media has brought some of these new developments to the communities' attention and more questions are being asked of local Building authorities before blind approval is given. Cheers, Robyn --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. http://www.genuki.org.uk/ Contact the list administrator at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Sheila It's all a matter of economics, I'm sure. For anyone interested in pictures of old mills, there are some pictures on Facebook: See https://www.facebook.com/pg/ManchesterHistoryRevisited/photos/?tab=album&album_id=800979916663655 or https://tinyurl.com/yata3oz9 Lynne Sheila Smith <[email protected]> wrote: >Hi Lynne, > >Dundee has been reclaiming their old mills for years..... so long as the >foundations where suitable. > >Can't understand why Lancashire hadn't thought about that years ago !!!! > >Sheila (Fife) > >

If you speak to your local Buildings at Risk Officer, they will tell you that the best way to save a building is to find a use for it. Much more effective that Scheduling, Listing or putting a Preservation Order on it. Martin Briscoe Fort William -----Original Message----- From: LANCSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sheila Smith Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2017 3:56 PM To: Lynne <[email protected]>; [email protected] Subject: Re: [LAN] Historic England launches campaign to save former textile mills Hi Lynne, Dundee has been reclaiming their old mills for years..... so long as the foundations where suitable. Can't understand why Lancashire hadn't thought about that years ago !!!! Sheila (Fife)

Hi Lynne, Dundee has been reclaiming their old mills for years..... so long as the foundations where suitable. Can't understand why Lancashire hadn't thought about that years ago !!!! Sheila (Fife)

Thanks David that's  great Regards  john Sent from my Samsung device -------- Original message -------- From: David <[email protected]> Date: 22/11/2017 16:47 (GMT+00:00) To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LAN] Constantine Hi John, This is a transcription of the 1841 census which agrees with the '51 and '61 sent earlier by others, and probably the death of father George in 1853. Sand Hole, Ashton under Lyne, Ashton & Oldham, Lancashire, England HO107 / 533 Book 2 Folio 19 Page 30 First name(s) Last name - Gender - Age - Birth year - Birth place - Birth year - Born in County George Constantine - Male - 35 - 1806 - Y Sarah Constantine - Female - 35 - 1806 - Y Betsy Constantine - Female - 15 - 1826 - Y Joseph Constantine - Male - 13 - 1828 - Y Jane Constantine - Female - 7 - 1834 - Y Ann Constantine - Female - 3 - 1838 - Y Alice Constantine - Female - 1 - 1840 - Y Deaths Jun 1853 Constantine  George - Ashton -  8d - 340 hth David W :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information.  http://www.genuki.org.uk/ Contact the list administrator  at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi John, This is a transcription of the 1841 census which agrees with the '51 and '61 sent earlier by others, and probably the death of father George in 1853. Sand Hole, Ashton under Lyne, Ashton & Oldham, Lancashire, England HO107 / 533 Book 2 Folio 19 Page 30 First name(s) Last name - Gender - Age - Birth year - Birth place - Birth year - Born in County George Constantine - Male - 35 - 1806 - Y Sarah Constantine - Female - 35 - 1806 - Y Betsy Constantine - Female - 15 - 1826 - Y Joseph Constantine - Male - 13 - 1828 - Y Jane Constantine - Female - 7 - 1834 - Y Ann Constantine - Female - 3 - 1838 - Y Alice Constantine - Female - 1 - 1840 - Y Deaths Jun 1853 Constantine George - Ashton - 8d - 340 hth David W

There are regularly newspaper stories about tunnels under old towns and cities, particularly when there is something like a castle or prison so it would not have been surprised if it had been the Lancaster in Lancashire. I have been in one tunnel from prison to courthouse. https://goo.gl/eTZUyY Martin Briscoe Fort William [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: LANCSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of familyhistory Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 7:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LAN] Ooooops, wrong Lancaster! At first sight the photo of the jail is somewhat reminiscent of John O' Gaunt's gateway at Lancaster Castle; however they wouldn't have needed a tunnel over here as both Gaol and Court were in the Castle, one of the reasons Lancaster was used for some very high security trials in the 20th Century.

At first sight the photo of the jail is somewhat reminiscent of John O' Gaunt's gateway at Lancaster Castle; however they wouldn't have needed a tunnel over here as both Gaol and Court were in the Castle, one of the reasons Lancaster was used for some very high security trials in the 20th Century. BobC On 21/11/2017 16:44, Martin Briscoe (W10 laptop) wrote: > I saw this story in the news and thought it was yet another rumour about > Lancaster Castle. > > Even when I read it, it took a few seconds to realise it was the wrong > Lancaster, actually one in the colonies. > > Lancaster Online > > Is there an underground tunnel from the Lancaster County Courthouse to the > Lancaster prison? [We the People report] > > November 21, 2017 > > http://lancasteronline.com/news/local/is-there-an-underground-tunnel-from-the-lancaster-county-courthouse/article_dda9e5be-cbb0-11e7-ba1f-af49a15cb95b.html > > https://goo.gl/5nu6ZN > > > Martin Briscoe > Fort William > -- Bob C http://www.bccy.org.uk and http://extra.bccy.org.uk

I saw this story in the news and thought it was yet another rumour about Lancaster Castle. Even when I read it, it took a few seconds to realise it was the wrong Lancaster, actually one in the colonies. Lancaster Online Is there an underground tunnel from the Lancaster County Courthouse to the Lancaster prison? [We the People report] November 21, 2017 http://lancasteronline.com/news/local/is-there-an-underground-tunnel-from-th e-lancaster-county-courthouse/article_dda9e5be-cbb0-11e7-ba1f-af49a15cb95b.h tml https://goo.gl/5nu6ZN Martin Briscoe Fort William

Hi John, The entry below is the 1851 census, and if you are interested, there is a birth cert listed on FreeBMD - John CONSTANTINE - Jun qtr. 1847 Ashton - XX 1 "He is with his grandparents on Brook Street, in St Peters parish in the West End of Ashton Piece 2233 Folio 240 Page 19 George Constenline 45 Sarah Constenline 47 Jane Constenline 18 Ann Constenline 13 Alice Constenline 11 John Constenline 4 Jane Aldred 27 Mary Alice Aldred 0" hth David