This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: mi2early Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/52782.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: It would be easier for someone to help if you'd provide some other details, such as the name of Thomas' wife, when/where he married, and the names and dates of his sons. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: IGreatorex Surnames: Wilson Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/52782/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I would love to know more about Thomas Wilson and his 12 sons. I have completed as far as i can go, but would love to have some help. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

Hi, Does anyone on the list know of the history of this cottage? As cottages go, this one is enormous, I think. Last sale of the property was for almost a million pounds, it has five bedrooms, five baths, two reception rooms. My brother and I have been searching, on and off, for years, for WILCOCK HOUSE which was in the Chorley area, and was the residence of senior members of the WILCOCK family who also owned WILCOCK FARM, which still exists in Rivington, and now has a caravan park. WILCOCK COTTAGE is on Pippin Rd, up a double driveway on the western side, and now has some kind of sheds at the rear of it. I have only seen the satellite photo, from google, so I cannot say what it looks like from ground level. I tracked it down through a real estate site. So, now I have discovered WILCOCK COTTAGE, but I have no idea where to go from here. We live in Australia now, so anything that we do has to be done on-line. Is there anyone (please, pretty please) who has any local knowledge of WILCOCK COTTAGE? Any scrap of information would be very welcome. Also, if anyone can suggest where I can go from here? Online? Or if there is some very kind soul out there who can, in the course of their own investigations, could look up the history of this cottage? Any assistance at all would be greatly appreciated. Sylvia Wilcox (WILCOCK) Sent from my iPad

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: farmersoldierpreacherthief Surnames: Gardner, Hilditch Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/52781/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Is anyone familiar with the Lancashire Cotton Pageants held in the 1930's? I've seen a video clip of the 1932 pageant from the Pathe website, but I'm looking for names of the participants for the 1933-1934 pageants. Specifically I'm looking for Evelyn Gardner (b. abt 1922 in Oldham, Lancs.) and her brother Eric Gardner (b. abt 1924 in Oldham, Lancs.). They are the children of Ethel Hilditch (1898-1976) and Fred Gardner (unknown). I have a picture of the siblings in their pageant attire and it looks like Evelyn either won the pageant or was an attendant on the pageant queen's court, as she was dressed with a small crown and long robe. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: peterbarnes35 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/52779.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: My relative James Barnes son of Henry Barnes relocated to Eccles in Lancashire. And it is there i believe he died. In 1846 the East Lancashire railway was opened, allowing people to travel easily, from as far as Bacup to Manchester.. Perhaps why my relative and perhaps many more relocaed away from Haslingden. As did my grandmother who was born in Crawshawbotth Rawtenstall. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: peterbarnes35 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/1896.3033/mb.ashx Message Board Post: BARNES and ROTHWELL of Haslingden, Lancs Henry Barnes, my ancestor as noted in the 1841 and 1851 census married a Betty or Elizabeth Nutter. The confusion over Henry's birth date is because, he was baptised three years later in 1783 at St James Haslingden. Iv'e in the last month or two found quite a lot of information regarding this Henry Barnes, and the Henry Barnes and Isabel Greenwood who were his mother and father. Iv'e been on holiday, and as yet have not had time to update my own family tree. I have photos of Henry's grave in St James church which when i have time i'll post. The willl of Henry Barnes who married Isabel Greenwood, is held at Preston Records office and i'll also post this at a later date. Henry the son, died in 1859 as recorded on his tombstone. Betty his wife died a year later in 1859. Henry's fater the husband of Isabel Greenwood died in April 1815 as noted in his will and St James records. Isabel Greenwood,(Isabel Barnes) died in 1811, 4 year prior to Henrys death. The monumantal inscrip! tion reads "Isabel Barnes uxor of Henrici". The barneses of Haslingden are a nightmare to unravel. About the same time as Henry my relation, there was also a Henry Barnes of Deardengate. As i say iv'e been on holiday and only got back last week, but i will eventually post all the information i have.. I hope my information helps. The nearest family tree iv'e found which corresponds to the information iv'e uncovered, is a 'Heather who also mentions Henry Barnes and Isabell Greenwood. Incedentley, Alice Nutter was the first of the Pendle witches to be arrested, and there is a possibility she was an earlier relation of the Betty Nutter the second Henry's wife. Something i'll no doubt further investigate in the coming months. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

Hi Nivard, Absolutely. Having just checked my sturdy old Collins Road Atlas I have now found Bassaleg, down near Cardiff.....Your find fits all the criteria thank you. My friend and I were still trying to find a William H Williams with an Ag. Labourer for a father.....or something along similar lines. Wales is a country that I haven't had to research all these years, thus my ignorance of where places are there and how they are pronounced or spelt.......and what is close to where. Another part of this mystery is this......My friend, for whom I am trying to help with this one, has found another mystery..... On the Marriage of William Henry Williams in 1925 he states his address as 84 Garnett Ave., Kirkdale. In 1911 there were two Williams families living either side of No. 84, both were from Wales originally, but neither from Monmouthshire and it seems, neither related to each other. One family had a Grace Williams, whose name just happened to be a Witness at this Marriage and the other had a William Williams aged 21 years..... However at No. 84, in the middle in 1911, was a Mrs. Ellen Ann Taylor, Head, lady of Independent means, with daughter Nellie Agnes and a servant. My night has just got a lot longer...... Cheers, Robyn >>1891 Wales Census about William Williams Name: William Williams Age: 4 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887 Relation: Son Father's Name: Henry Williams Mother's name: Elizebath Williams Gender: Male Where born: Bassaleg, Monmouthshire, Wales Civil Parish: St Woollos Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark Town: Newport County/Island: Monmouthshire Country: Wales Street address: View image Condition as to marriage: View image Education: View image Employment status: View image Occupation: View image Registration district: Newport Sub-registration district: Newport ED, institution, or vessel: 36 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 4377 Folio: 45 Page Number: 5 Household Members: Name Age Henry Williams 31 Elizebath Williams 27 James Williams 8 Sarah Williams 6 William Williams 4 Alice Williams 1 Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4377; Folio: 45; Page: 5; GSU Roll: 6099487. In 1901 Henry is a "Farm Bailiff" Perhaps you might check the others in 1901 & 1911 to see if any others are Bailiffs then Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)>>

Thank you so much everyone, your input has helped me no end. I believe I can now eliminate this WILLIAM HENRY WILLIAMS from my search, as it seems, without purchasing Certificates, he did in fact die, as suggested, post discharge from the Army, after only serving a short period. Thus his Widow, Lydia nee Hill, married for a second time. My WILLIAM HENRY WILLIAMS, although of a similar age, married in Kirkdale in 1925 stating age as 38 years. He had a Witness at this Marriage called GRACE WILLIAMS and we have no idea, just yet, who she was......He stated his Father as HENRY WILLIAMS, Farm Bailiff.............. The night is young!! Cheers, Robyn Australia -----Original Message----- From: lancsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lancsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Huntingtons Sent: Sunday, 25 May 2014 8:06 PM To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LAN] Military Records Help Hi The Private killed 12 Oct 1915 from the Welsh Regiment No: 11652 is W.H.Thomas (who I believe was William Henry THOMAS) The WGC entry is:- THOMAS, W H - Private 11652 - 12/10/1915 - Welsh Regiment - United Kingdom - Crucifix Cemetery Memorial 9. DUD CORNER CEMETERY, LOOS So not William Henry WILLIAMS. There are potential matches:- 1. WILLIAMS, W J H Gunner 9102 16/03/1915 Royal Field Artillery United Kingdom O. CE. 738. PRESTON (NEW HALL LANE) CEMETERY I also looked at the Service Papers for your William Henry Williams 82350 of the Royal Field Artillery and his Medical sheet which states:- Which shows he was not transferred but "became non-effective by: Discharge 'Not likely etc.' on 27 November 1914" That usually means he was discharged as being unlikely to recover from an injury or illness sufficiently to be able to continue Military Service. As he only enlisted on 17 August 1914 that would suggest he didn't finish basic training. As he gives his age as 28yrs 100 days we can deduce he was born 8 May 1886 in Liverpool (unless he lied about his age!). There is also a marriage: 1900 Oct-Nov-Dec WILLIAMS, William h to HILL, Lydia WEST DERBY Vol:8B Page: 766 A potential death is:- Deaths Sep Williams William H Aged 34 (1882) W. Derby 8b 450 -----Original Message----- From: lancsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lancsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter Metcalfe Sent: 25 May 2014 08:01 To: lancsgen Subject: Re: [LAN] Military Records Help Hi Robyn <snip> Maybe someone else can try. He was a Private No 11652 with the Welsh Regiment and not the Welsh Guards and was killed in action 12th October 1915. Good luck, Peter On Sun, 25 May 2014 14:14:43 +1000, "Robyn Clarke" <rsclarke@bigpond.com> wrote: <snip> Then a couple of pages later Welch Guards - Killed in Action. Joined in Cardiff......1 yr. 57 days total service - Is this the same soldier, as the pages seem to go on without a break and his Reg. No. has changed. <snip> :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! The list's administrator can be contacted at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Nivard, Once again I'm extremely thankful for your interest and generosity in finding and explaining the variations of Military records online at present. I am not used to researching WW1 UK Military data and now, certainly have a better understanding of just what is available and the errors that can be found. I assumed incorrectly that they would be collated accurately and that was my undoing. Never mind, there's always a mystery in Family History and this is another one......back to the drawing board.... I hope others on the List read your response and learn from it as I have, thank you again, Cheers, Robyn -----Original Message----- From: lancsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lancsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: Sunday, 25 May 2014 7:41 PM To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LAN] Military Records Help Hi Robyn The surviving WW1 service records are in two main batches The burnt documents = those surviving records after the bombing & fire in WW2 And the unburnt documents = those with other departments, pensions etc Yours are in the latter, ie they were not damaged by fire as such The records were rearranged back into some semblance of order, many pages having become dislodged or separated so there are many mixed up or part records (more in the burnt than unburnt) The two sites that have them online have done their own transcription of keywords and arranged their own "sets" of an individuals records, both have their own problems but we must be grateful to have access to them I will have to assume you have the right man starting at page 98405 Ancestry state William Henry WILLIAMS born 1886 document year 1914 reg no 82350 Royal Field Artillery 7 pages Your mans record runs to five pages, the last two are a different mans (more later) Your man attested 17th Aug 1914 at Liverpool and served 103 days, he was discharged as not likely to become an efficient soldier, it does not state why Your man would not have a medal card as he did not serve overseas ============ On the last two pages of the seven, they belong to a William Henry THOMAS (not WILLIAMS) someone has made an error when filling in the first page of the two, entering his surname as WILLIAMS, this was not an isolated incident, I have come across quite a few similar errors, the British Army was a huge organisation so to my mind its to be expected that some mistakes were made in filling forms up, filing them etc (NB second page shows NOK brother Albert Hy THOMAS) His details are as follows Commonwealth War Graves Commission Casualty details THOMAS, W H Rank: Private Service No: 11652 Date of Death: 12/10/1915 Regiment/Service: Welsh Regiment 2nd Bn. Grave Reference Crucifix Cemetery Memorial 9. Cemetery DUD CORNER CEMETERY, LOOS (Soldiers died Ancestry) UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919 about William Henry Thomas Name: William Henry Thomas Birth Place: Tredegar Residence: Newcastleon-tyne Death Date: 12 Oct 1915 Death Location: France & Flanders Enlistment Location: Cardiff Rank: Private Regiment: Welsh Regiment Battalion: 2nd Battalion Number: 11652 Type of Casualty: Killed in action Theatre of War: Western European Theatre Source Information: Military-Genealogy.com, comp. UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2008. Original data: British and Irish Military Databases. The Naval and Military Press Ltd. His medal card does not appear to come up on Ancestry, but does on the National Archives Reference: WO 372/19/215694 Description: Medal card of Thomas, William H Corps Regiment No Rank Welsh Regiment 11652 Private Date: 1914-1920 Held by: The National Archives, Kew Legal status: Public Record Findmypast have your mans listed as five pages, they have no record of the two for William Henry THOMAS or WILLIAMS 11652 as far as I can tell NB when searching any of the service records, always check before as well as after the first page, you sometimes find other pages that way (not on this occasion though) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 25/05/2014 05:14, Robyn Clarke wrote: > Hello List, > > When looking through the Military records for WW1 on Ancestry, how does one > recognise from page to page, which pages belong to who? > > I am look at a Pensioners Records - From Page 98405 - WILLIAM HENRY > WILLIAMS, Labourer, Reg. No. 82350 stated as 28 years and 100 days old who > enlisted in 17 August, 1914 in Liverpool. Gunner - Discharged 103 days > later 27 November 1914 according to the second page. Wife listed as Lydia > Williams with their two children, William and Margaret. > I have found this family in 1911 in Liverpool.....at 69 Howe St., States > Discharge "Not likely etc.)"....... > Then a couple of pages later Welch Guards - Killed in Action. Joined in > Cardiff......1 yr. 57 days total service - Is this the same soldier, as the > pages seem to go on without a break and his Reg. No. has changed. > > The wife Lydia is found marrying again in 1917........but no definite demise > of 1st husband found..... > > Any help appreciated again, > > Robyn...... :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! The list's administrator can be contacted at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Peter, I'm pleased that at least it wasn't just me finding the search rather baffling..... I shall think sideways for a while and see what I can find..... Cheers, Robyn -----Original Message----- From: lancsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lancsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter Metcalfe Sent: Sunday, 25 May 2014 5:01 PM To: lancsgen Subject: Re: [LAN] Military Records Help Hi Robyn I've studied this record and it would appear that two soldier's records have been mixed up which is something I have come across a number of times. What I find odd though is I can't find the medal cards for either soldier and the one who was killed in action doesn't appear to have been recorded by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. Maybe someone else can try. He was a Private No 11652 with the Welsh Regiment and not the Welsh Guards and was killed in action 12th October 1915. http://www.cwgc.org Good luck. Peter On Sun, 25 May 2014 14:14:43 +1000, "Robyn Clarke" <rsclarke@bigpond.com> wrote: > Hello List, > > When looking through the Military records for WW1 on Ancestry, how does one > recognise from page to page, which pages belong to who? > > I am look at a Pensioners Records - From Page 98405 - WILLIAM HENRY > WILLIAMS, Labourer, Reg. No. 82350 stated as 28 years and 100 days old who > enlisted in 17 August, 1914 in Liverpool. Gunner - Discharged 103 days > later 27 November 1914 according to the second page. Wife listed as Lydia > Williams with their two children, William and Margaret. > I have found this family in 1911 in Liverpool.....at 69 Howe St., States > Discharge "Not likely etc.)"....... > Then a couple of pages later Welch Guards - Killed in Action. Joined in > Cardiff......1 yr. 57 days total service - Is this the same soldier, as the > pages seem to go on without a break and his Reg. No. has changed. > > The wife Lydia is found marrying again in 1917........but no definite demise > of 1st husband found..... > > Any help appreciated again, > > Robyn...... > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! > > The list's administrator can be contacted at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! The list's administrator can be contacted at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello John, Thanks for your information......I was certainly confused with what I found. Lydia though I believe is the same woman, as she had the same Maiden name of Hill. Perhaps he did change Regiments and got a new Reg. No., but I still can't find him Deceased anywhere...... Except on that page which states he was killed October 1915. Perhaps not my man, the age difference too is rather puzzling..... Much appreciated, Robyn -----Original Message----- From: lancsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lancsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Hanson Sent: Sunday, 25 May 2014 4:46 PM To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LAN] Military Records Help Robyn On the search result page (before you look at the image) it tells you that there are 7 pages to William's record The fifth image though does not relate to him as the age is wrong and so is the regiment. It also states he enlisted in Cardiff and the first page said that he enlisted in Liverpool. At that time if you changed regiment then your service number changed - so if he did re-enlist then it maybe him. Don't forget that these are from a set of burnt documents and they may not have been put back in the right order or all of them may not have survived. You say that Lydia got re-married in 1917 but how can you be certain that it is your Lydia without looking at the certificate. If it is the one that married in Everton have you contacted John Marsden who runs the Marsden one-name study Regards John Hanson Researcher, The Halsted Trust Website - www.halstedresearch.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: lancsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lancsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Robyn Clarke Sent: 25 May 2014 05:15 To: LANCSGEN@rootsweb.com Subject: [LAN] Military Records Help Hello List, When looking through the Military records for WW1 on Ancestry, how does one recognise from page to page, which pages belong to who? I am look at a Pensioners Records - From Page 98405 - WILLIAM HENRY WILLIAMS, Labourer, Reg. No. 82350 stated as 28 years and 100 days old who enlisted in 17 August, 1914 in Liverpool. Gunner - Discharged 103 days later 27 November 1914 according to the second page. Wife listed as Lydia Williams with their two children, William and Margaret. I have found this family in 1911 in Liverpool.....at 69 Howe St., States Discharge "Not likely etc.)"....... Then a couple of pages later Welch Guards - Killed in Action. Joined in Cardiff......1 yr. 57 days total service - Is this the same soldier, as the pages seem to go on without a break and his Reg. No. has changed. The wife Lydia is found marrying again in 1917........but no definite demise of 1st husband found..... Any help appreciated again, Robyn...... :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! The list's administrator can be contacted at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! The list's administrator can be contacted at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello List, When looking through the Military records for WW1 on Ancestry, how does one recognise from page to page, which pages belong to who? I am look at a Pensioners Records - From Page 98405 - WILLIAM HENRY WILLIAMS, Labourer, Reg. No. 82350 stated as 28 years and 100 days old who enlisted in 17 August, 1914 in Liverpool. Gunner - Discharged 103 days later 27 November 1914 according to the second page. Wife listed as Lydia Williams with their two children, William and Margaret. I have found this family in 1911 in Liverpool.....at 69 Howe St., States Discharge "Not likely etc.)"....... Then a couple of pages later Welch Guards - Killed in Action. Joined in Cardiff......1 yr. 57 days total service - Is this the same soldier, as the pages seem to go on without a break and his Reg. No. has changed. The wife Lydia is found marrying again in 1917........but no definite demise of 1st husband found..... Any help appreciated again, Robyn......

Hi Robyn Well the time wasn't wasted, it identified one mans service record that wasn't previously, they deserve to be found and hopefully some future researcher will be glad of the knowledge Now on your man Looking at the nearest census to his birth (circa 1887) there are nine William WILLIAMS with a father Henry Only one has a father in an agricultural occupation (Ag Lab) 1891 Wales Census about William Williams Name: William Williams Age: 4 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887 Relation: Son Father's Name: Henry Williams Mother's name: Elizebath Williams Gender: Male Where born: Bassaleg, Monmouthshire, Wales Civil Parish: St Woollos Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark Town: Newport County/Island: Monmouthshire Country: Wales Street address: View image Condition as to marriage: View image Education: View image Employment status: View image Occupation: View image Registration district: Newport Sub-registration district: Newport ED, institution, or vessel: 36 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 4377 Folio: 45 Page Number: 5 Household Members: Name Age Henry Williams 31 Elizebath Williams 27 James Williams 8 Sarah Williams 6 William Williams 4 Alice Williams 1 Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4377; Folio: 45; Page: 5; GSU Roll: 6099487. In 1901 Henry is a "Farm Bailiff" Perhaps you might check the others in 1901 & 1911 to see if any others are Bailiffs then Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 25/05/2014 11:45, Robyn Clarke wrote: > Thank you so much everyone, your input has helped me no end. I believe I > can now eliminate this WILLIAM HENRY WILLIAMS from my search, as it seems, > without purchasing Certificates, he did in fact die, as suggested, post > discharge from the Army, after only serving a short period. Thus his Widow, > Lydia nee Hill, married for a second time. > > My WILLIAM HENRY WILLIAMS, although of a similar age, married in Kirkdale in > 1925 stating age as 38 years. He had a Witness at this Marriage called > GRACE WILLIAMS and we have no idea, just yet, who she was......He stated his > Father as HENRY WILLIAMS, Farm Bailiff.............. > The night is young!! > > Cheers, > Robyn > Australia

Hello List, Could someone please help me find who was living at 126 GARTONS LANE CLOCK FACE ST. HELENS in 1911 Census. AND I'm afraid I can't find it and am looking for a WILLIAM HENRY WILLIAMS who gave it as his address during WW1 (1919). He enlisted in 1914 - stating he had a wife called Lydia and two children, William and Margaret.....living at 22 MALWOOD STREET, LIVERPOOL..........Can't find any of them. Any help very much appreciated..... Robyn Australia

Hi The Private killed 12 Oct 1915 from the Welsh Regiment No: 11652 is W.H.Thomas (who I believe was William Henry THOMAS) The WGC entry is:- THOMAS, W H - Private 11652 - 12/10/1915 - Welsh Regiment - United Kingdom - Crucifix Cemetery Memorial 9. DUD CORNER CEMETERY, LOOS So not William Henry WILLIAMS. There are potential matches:- 1. WILLIAMS, W J H Gunner 9102 16/03/1915 Royal Field Artillery United Kingdom O. CE. 738. PRESTON (NEW HALL LANE) CEMETERY I also looked at the Service Papers for your William Henry Williams 82350 of the Royal Field Artillery and his Medical sheet which states:- Which shows he was not transferred but "became non-effective by: Discharge 'Not likely etc.' on 27 November 1914" That usually means he was discharged as being unlikely to recover from an injury or illness sufficiently to be able to continue Military Service. As he only enlisted on 17 August 1914 that would suggest he didn't finish basic training. As he gives his age as 28yrs 100 days we can deduce he was born 8 May 1886 in Liverpool (unless he lied about his age!). There is also a marriage: 1900 Oct-Nov-Dec WILLIAMS, William h to HILL, Lydia WEST DERBY Vol:8B Page: 766 A potential death is:- Deaths Sep Williams William H Aged 34 (1882) W. Derby 8b 450 -----Original Message----- From: lancsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lancsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter Metcalfe Sent: 25 May 2014 08:01 To: lancsgen Subject: Re: [LAN] Military Records Help Hi Robyn <snip> Maybe someone else can try. He was a Private No 11652 with the Welsh Regiment and not the Welsh Guards and was killed in action 12th October 1915. Good luck, Peter On Sun, 25 May 2014 14:14:43 +1000, "Robyn Clarke" <rsclarke@bigpond.com> wrote: <snip> Then a couple of pages later Welch Guards - Killed in Action. Joined in Cardiff......1 yr. 57 days total service - Is this the same soldier, as the pages seem to go on without a break and his Reg. No. has changed. <snip>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: andreakkk Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/52780/mb.ashx Message Board Post: or am i clutching at straws? Baptism: 23 Mar 1704 St Mary, Deane, Lancashire, England Radulphus f. Roberti Cowburn Westhoughton Marriage: 26 Sep 1725 St Mary the Virgin, Deane, Lancashire, England Radus Cowburn et Emy Leigh Burial: 20 Apr 1738 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England Emm Coward - Wife of Richard Coward Abode: Pennington Source: LDS Film 559189 Marriage: 26 Oct 1740 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England Richard Coward - Ellizabeth Boydell - this parish Married by Banns Source: LDS Film 559188 I now see that the first transcripts are in latin with the name RALPH (rather than Richard ) but given the fact that people were totally unable to read and write and sermons were held in latin -mm i thought i had something i have been unable to go back on my tree for the past 10 years adn i keep finding things that might fit but maybe not this time Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

Hi Robyn The surviving WW1 service records are in two main batches The burnt documents = those surviving records after the bombing & fire in WW2 And the unburnt documents = those with other departments, pensions etc Yours are in the latter, ie they were not damaged by fire as such The records were rearranged back into some semblance of order, many pages having become dislodged or separated so there are many mixed up or part records (more in the burnt than unburnt) The two sites that have them online have done their own transcription of keywords and arranged their own "sets" of an individuals records, both have their own problems but we must be grateful to have access to them I will have to assume you have the right man starting at page 98405 Ancestry state William Henry WILLIAMS born 1886 document year 1914 reg no 82350 Royal Field Artillery 7 pages Your mans record runs to five pages, the last two are a different mans (more later) Your man attested 17th Aug 1914 at Liverpool and served 103 days, he was discharged as not likely to become an efficient soldier, it does not state why Your man would not have a medal card as he did not serve overseas ============ On the last two pages of the seven, they belong to a William Henry THOMAS (not WILLIAMS) someone has made an error when filling in the first page of the two, entering his surname as WILLIAMS, this was not an isolated incident, I have come across quite a few similar errors, the British Army was a huge organisation so to my mind its to be expected that some mistakes were made in filling forms up, filing them etc (NB second page shows NOK brother Albert Hy THOMAS) His details are as follows Commonwealth War Graves Commission Casualty details THOMAS, W H Rank: Private Service No: 11652 Date of Death: 12/10/1915 Regiment/Service: Welsh Regiment 2nd Bn. Grave Reference Crucifix Cemetery Memorial 9. Cemetery DUD CORNER CEMETERY, LOOS (Soldiers died Ancestry) UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919 about William Henry Thomas Name: William Henry Thomas Birth Place: Tredegar Residence: Newcastleon-tyne Death Date: 12 Oct 1915 Death Location: France & Flanders Enlistment Location: Cardiff Rank: Private Regiment: Welsh Regiment Battalion: 2nd Battalion Number: 11652 Type of Casualty: Killed in action Theatre of War: Western European Theatre Source Information: Military-Genealogy.com, comp. UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2008. Original data: British and Irish Military Databases. The Naval and Military Press Ltd. His medal card does not appear to come up on Ancestry, but does on the National Archives Reference: WO 372/19/215694 Description: Medal card of Thomas, William H Corps Regiment No Rank Welsh Regiment 11652 Private Date: 1914-1920 Held by: The National Archives, Kew Legal status: Public Record Findmypast have your mans listed as five pages, they have no record of the two for William Henry THOMAS or WILLIAMS 11652 as far as I can tell NB when searching any of the service records, always check before as well as after the first page, you sometimes find other pages that way (not on this occasion though) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 25/05/2014 05:14, Robyn Clarke wrote: > Hello List, > > When looking through the Military records for WW1 on Ancestry, how does one > recognise from page to page, which pages belong to who? > > I am look at a Pensioners Records - From Page 98405 - WILLIAM HENRY > WILLIAMS, Labourer, Reg. No. 82350 stated as 28 years and 100 days old who > enlisted in 17 August, 1914 in Liverpool. Gunner - Discharged 103 days > later 27 November 1914 according to the second page. Wife listed as Lydia > Williams with their two children, William and Margaret. > I have found this family in 1911 in Liverpool.....at 69 Howe St., States > Discharge "Not likely etc.)"....... > Then a couple of pages later Welch Guards - Killed in Action. Joined in > Cardiff......1 yr. 57 days total service - Is this the same soldier, as the > pages seem to go on without a break and his Reg. No. has changed. > > The wife Lydia is found marrying again in 1917........but no definite demise > of 1st husband found..... > > Any help appreciated again, > > Robyn......

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: peterbarnes35 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/1896.3032.3812.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Henry Barnes, my relative was born in 1783, and baptised at St James church Haslingden in 1786. He married, a Betty Nutter. They had about 8 children, some of whom are buried in the family plot H23 in St James churchyard. There are quite a number of Henry Barneses who were born in Haslingden. And the Barnes family, because of this is a nightmare to research.. My name is Peter Barnes, and i am a descendent of James Barnes, the son, of the Henry Barnes, and Betty Nutter mentioned. The Henry Barnes, my relative died in 1859, but he appears in the 1841 and 1851 census. Iv'e posted more information under "Henry Barnes of Haslingden" In the message board, and my Peter Barnes profile. As to Barnes and Rothwell, iv'e a vague recollection, i may? be related to them. I hope my contribution, on the Barneses of Haslingden helps. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

Robyn On the search result page (before you look at the image) it tells you that there are 7 pages to William's record The fifth image though does not relate to him as the age is wrong and so is the regiment. It also states he enlisted in Cardiff and the first page said that he enlisted in Liverpool. At that time if you changed regiment then your service number changed - so if he did re-enlist then it maybe him. Don't forget that these are from a set of burnt documents and they may not have been put back in the right order or all of them may not have survived. You say that Lydia got re-married in 1917 but how can you be certain that it is your Lydia without looking at the certificate. If it is the one that married in Everton have you contacted John Marsden who runs the Marsden one-name study Regards John Hanson Researcher, The Halsted Trust Website - www.halstedresearch.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: lancsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lancsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Robyn Clarke Sent: 25 May 2014 05:15 To: LANCSGEN@rootsweb.com Subject: [LAN] Military Records Help Hello List, When looking through the Military records for WW1 on Ancestry, how does one recognise from page to page, which pages belong to who? I am look at a Pensioners Records - From Page 98405 - WILLIAM HENRY WILLIAMS, Labourer, Reg. No. 82350 stated as 28 years and 100 days old who enlisted in 17 August, 1914 in Liverpool. Gunner - Discharged 103 days later 27 November 1914 according to the second page. Wife listed as Lydia Williams with their two children, William and Margaret. I have found this family in 1911 in Liverpool.....at 69 Howe St., States Discharge "Not likely etc.)"....... Then a couple of pages later Welch Guards - Killed in Action. Joined in Cardiff......1 yr. 57 days total service - Is this the same soldier, as the pages seem to go on without a break and his Reg. No. has changed. The wife Lydia is found marrying again in 1917........but no definite demise of 1st husband found..... Any help appreciated again, Robyn...... :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! The list's administrator can be contacted at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Robyn I've studied this record and it would appear that two soldier's records have been mixed up which is something I have come across a number of times. What I find odd though is I can't find the medal cards for either soldier and the one who was killed in action doesn't appear to have been recorded by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. Maybe someone else can try. He was a Private No 11652 with the Welsh Regiment and not the Welsh Guards and was killed in action 12th October 1915. http://www.cwgc.org Good luck. Peter On Sun, 25 May 2014 14:14:43 +1000, "Robyn Clarke" <rsclarke@bigpond.com> wrote: > Hello List, > > When looking through the Military records for WW1 on Ancestry, how does one > recognise from page to page, which pages belong to who? > > I am look at a Pensioners Records - From Page 98405 - WILLIAM HENRY > WILLIAMS, Labourer, Reg. No. 82350 stated as 28 years and 100 days old who > enlisted in 17 August, 1914 in Liverpool. Gunner - Discharged 103 days > later 27 November 1914 according to the second page. Wife listed as Lydia > Williams with their two children, William and Margaret. > I have found this family in 1911 in Liverpool.....at 69 Howe St., States > Discharge "Not likely etc.)"....... > Then a couple of pages later Welch Guards - Killed in Action. Joined in > Cardiff......1 yr. 57 days total service - Is this the same soldier, as the > pages seem to go on without a break and his Reg. No. has changed. > > The wife Lydia is found marrying again in 1917........but no definite demise > of 1st husband found..... > > Any help appreciated again, > > Robyn...... > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! > > The list's administrator can be contacted at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message