Hi Mary. The 1911 census was the first one that was to be filled in by the head of the household, or at least a member of it who could read and write if I remember rightly. So whether there is an Enumerator's mistranscription going on or not, is difficult to tell. It is possible that the family could indeed be in a workhouse, as sometimes, names weren't recorded, just initials. They could well be hiding under those, but whether at this stage you are looking for Dodd or Bednal(l) is up for discussion. There was 5% of the census lost due to water damage, so you could be one of the really unlucky ones, or the returned paperwork was illegible or something was highly contestable. There could be many reasons why Josephine changed her name from Bedal(l) to Dodd. Maybe there was local stigma if William's mental health issues were causing problems. Maybe she found out that he wasn't her birth father and reverted to the name on her birth certificate. Maybe she was forced to for legal reasons, although I can't really see that as there wasn't such a strict need in those days to have the 'right' sort of paperwork. Strangely there is a marriage for an Elizabeth Ann Dodd in Albert Memorial, but it is 1911 not around 1895 and she marries a Frederick William McDermott. Her father is noted as Charles, and she is shown as 29 years of age but this will more than likely be just a coincidence of name and possible age. Name: Elizabeth Ann Dodd Gender: Female Marriage Age: 29 Event Type:Marriage Birth Year:abt 1882 Marriage Date: 23 Oct 1911 Marriage Place: Collyhurst, Albert Memorial Church, Manchester Regards, Sally

On 27 April 2017 at 10:22, J PEPPERDINE <[email protected]> wrote: > ... I do not know to what extent census takers were supposed to question > people but unless advised otherwise they seem very ready to assume that if > a man and woman are living together they are married and any children must > be theirs. ... > My understanding is that there were no assumptions - the enumerators simply transcribed what the house-holder had written. So yes, any claim made by the householder that a couple were married, was simply transcribed over into the enumerator's copy (or kept untouched in the case of the English & Welsh 1911). This doesn't preclude the possibility of queries being made by the enumerator if the answers broke the validation rules, but experiments have demonstrated that there simply wasn't enough time to do more than put the completed form into the bag in the vast majority of the cases. Adrian

Have been tied up with other urgent matters. I believe you have still not found the mother and three daughters on 1911 census. It seemed to me to be most likely that they would be living with the children's grandparent(s) if they were still alive. However when I try to discover who they were I find two William Henry Bednals born in Lancashire at very similar date. One could have married either Mary Bevan or Ada Lily Perry in second quarter of 1902 in Walsall Registration District and I assume the other is yours. The 1901 and 1911 census show him as variously green grocer and newsagent You ask whether William Henry was your Grandmother's father. In my experience she would have said on her marriage certificate that he was, simply in order to avoid awkward questions. I do not know to what extent census takers were supposed to question people but unless advised otherwise they seem very ready to assume that if a man and woman are living together they are married and any children must be theirs. So the family you are looking for may appear under an entirely unexpected surname. John ----Original message---- >From : [email protected] Date : 25/04/2017 - 14:20 (GMTST) To : [email protected] Subject : Re: [LAN] missing on 1911 There is the following record that might be them. Marriages Sep 1895 . However, its not clear as to who William married in this record. ________________________________ Bednall William Wolstanton 6b 192 Chidlow Mary Ann Wolstanton 6b 192 Kettle Elizabeth Wolstanton 6b 192 Plant William Sidnes Wolstanton 6b 192 Wolstanton is a suburban village on the outskirts of Newcastle-under-Lyme, Staffordshire. Mike Morris Toronto Canada ________________________________ From: Andrew Mason <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 6:53 AM Subject: [LAN] missing on 1911 Try as I might I cannot find my Grandma on the 1911 census, or any member of her family. Needing fresh pair of eyes. My Grandma Josephine Dodd was base born to Elizabeth Ann Dodd in 1903 I have her birth certificate, there were later 2 sisters Lily 1906 and Elizabeth Ann 1909 but these two girls are baptised with a father called William Henry Bednal, I have found no marriage for Wm and Elizabeth although it says on Elizabeth Ann’s bpt record that they were married at Albert Memorial in 1895. (Looked from 1891-1897 not there) <snip> :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm Contact the list administrator at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Mike, My records show a Richard Thornber living at Chalk Row, Sabden in 1828 on a medical register and with his family at Long Row in the 1841 Census 1841 census: Richard Thornber 55 Journeyman Printer; Ann 45, Giles 26 Dyer; Manaseth(?) 18 Dyer; Ephraim 18 Dyer; John 15 Dyer; William 13 Tearer; Alice 11 Tearer; Cornelius 6. During the early part of the 19thC many of the rows of small cottage-type terraced property in Sabden had more than one name. Chalf and Long Row are both one and the same and today the postal address is Wesley Street. In 1841 there was also a Thornber family living at the Chapel House: John Thornber 35 Journeyman Calico Printer; Jane 35; Sarah 17 weaver; Ellen 15 weaver; Thomas 14 calender boy; alice 12 tearer; Joseph 4; Benjamin 2; John 1. The chapel house in this instance was part of a property in Whalley Road which was used as a place of worship by a group of Baptists calling themselves Particular Baptists who had broken away from the mainstream Baptist Chapel. The property is still in existence and situated next to the present day newsagent and post office. Both properties can be distinctly seen on Google Earth street cam. Regards. David. On 25 Apr 2017, at 20:38, Mike Morris wrote: > Hello David, > Have you come across any THORNBER'S in this area and time period. Mine are from this area and its surrounds in the late 1700's. Richard THORNBER born 1781 Sabden and another record says Hayhouses. > Regards, > Mike Morris > Toronto Canada

Hello all, Here are the latest records to be added to the LOPC website. The search engine has been updated to include them in returned results. http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/indexw.html 26 April 2017 Baptisms 1786 to 1829 from Mount Pleasant Wesleyan, Bacup Baptisms 1815 to 1817 from the Church of St Peter, Bolton Marriages 1956 to 1967 from the Church of St Peter, in the Parish of Burnley Burials 1849 to 1855 from the Church of All Saints, in the District of Chorlton-on-Medlock, Manchester Baptisms 1902 to 1916 from the Roman Catholic Church of St Mary (Our Lady of Sorrows), in the Parish of Denton Marriages 1837 to 1843 from the Church of St James, Haslingden Baptisms 1726 to 1858 from the Church of Emmanuel, Holcombe, in the Parish of Bury Replacing BTs with a rework from the PRs. Many amendments and additions Baptisms 1881 to 1892 from the Church of St Margaret of Antioch, Hollinwood Marriages 2009 to 2012 and Burials 1996 to 2012 from the Church of St Peter in the Parish of Mawdesley with Bispham Baptisms 1844 to 1901 from the Church of St Thomas, Musbury, in the District of Rossendale Baptisms 1850 to 1858 from the Church of St Mary, Oldham Merged 2 incomplete sets to get the Register of Baptisms for 1850 to 1858 Many new entries in 1852 and 1853 Baptisms 1936 to 1947 from the Church of St Mark, Worsley (Message from the LOPC - We are looking for a few more volunteers to help with register photography, mainly at Preston and Manchester. See details of what this involves on the website.) Regards, Sally

Hello all, Here are the latest records to be added to the LOPC website. The search engine has been updated to include them in returned results. http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/indexw.html 26 April 2017 Baptisms 1786 to 1829 from Mount Pleasant Wesleyan, Bacup Baptisms 1815 to 1817 from the Church of St Peter, Bolton Marriages 1956 to 1967 from the Church of St Peter, in the Parish of Burnley Burials 1849 to 1855 from the Church of All Saints, in the District of Chorlton-on-Medlock, Manchester Baptisms 1902 to 1916 from the Roman Catholic Church of St Mary (Our Lady of Sorrows), in the Parish of Denton Marriages 1837 to 1843 from the Church of St James, Haslingden Baptisms 1726 to 1858 from the Church of Emmanuel, Holcombe, in the Parish of Bury Replacing BTs with a rework from the PRs. Many amendments and additions Baptisms 1881 to 1892 from the Church of St Margaret of Antioch, Hollinwood Marriages 2009 to 2012 and Burials 1996 to 2012 from the Church of St Peter in the Parish of Mawdesley with Bispham Baptisms 1844 to 1901 from the Church of St Thomas, Musbury, in the District of Rossendale Baptisms 1850 to 1858 from the Church of St Mary, Oldham Merged 2 incomplete sets to get the Register of Baptisms for 1850 to 1858 Many new entries in 1852 and 1853 Baptisms 1936 to 1947 from the Church of St Mark, Worsley (Message from the LOPC - We are looking for a few more volunteers to help with register photography, mainly at Preston and Manchester. See details of what this involves on the website.) Regards, Sally

Hello David, Have you come across any THORNBER'S in this area and time period. Mine are from this area and its surrounds in the late 1700's. Richard THORNBER born 1781 Sabden and another record says Hayhouses. Regards, Mike Morris Toronto Canada ________________________________ From: David Eaves <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 11:57 AM I am also researching the Pendle village of Sabden, its industries and inhabitants 1770 to present.<snipped>

Andrew Don't forget that as a women she may well be missing if she was a suffragette Regards John Hanson, researcher, the Halsted Trust, http://www.halstedresearch.org.uk New family history conference in 2018 http://www.secretlives.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: LANCSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Andrew Mason Sent: 25 April 2017 14:22 To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [LAN] missing on 1911 Age 63 I never noticed that, however, I had found W.H and Elizabeth on the 1901 and I failed to mention in my message that I had W.H on the 1911, not too many Bednal's around so he became very easy to find. It's trying to find all the females on the 1911 that is bugging me. Thank you for getting in touch though much appreciated. Mary Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: J PEPPERDINE<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: 25 April 2017 13:43 To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [LAN] missing on 1911 On 1901 census William Henry's age is incorrectly stated as 63 rather than 23 Aged 33 he appears on 1911 census as W H rather than William Henry at Whittingham St Mary, Lancashire John Pepperdine :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm Contact the list administrator at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm Contact the list administrator at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

G Thomas, I have subscribed to Findmypast and it is my Grandma, the birth date and everything else are correct, thank you so much for that. Wonder now why she discarded the Bednal name for the rest of her life. Mary Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 from Family Search: England, Manchester, Miscellaneous Records Name Josephine Bednal Event Type School enrollment Event Year 1903 - 1914 Event Place Lancashire, England apparently the image is available on Findmypast G Thomson :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm Contact the list administrator at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm Contact the list administrator at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Not subscribed to Findmypast for a long while, looks like I will have to for a bit, thank you G Thomson xx Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: Thomsons<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: 25 April 2017 14:31 To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [LAN] missing on 1911 from Family Search: England, Manchester, Miscellaneous Records Name Josephine Bednal Event Type School enrollment Event Year 1903 - 1914 Event Place Lancashire, England apparently the image is available on Findmypast G Thomson :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm Contact the list administrator at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 1901 census William Henry's age is incorrectly stated as 63 rather than 23 Aged 33 he appears on 1911 census as W H rather than William Henry at Whittingham St Mary, Lancashire John Pepperdine

Age 63 I never noticed that, however, I had found W.H and Elizabeth on the 1901 and I failed to mention in my message that I had W.H on the 1911, not too many Bednal’s around so he became very easy to find. It’s trying to find all the females on the 1911 that is bugging me. Thank you for getting in touch though much appreciated. Mary Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: J PEPPERDINE<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: 25 April 2017 13:43 To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [LAN] missing on 1911 On 1901 census William Henry's age is incorrectly stated as 63 rather than 23 Aged 33 he appears on 1911 census as W H rather than William Henry at Whittingham St Mary, Lancashire John Pepperdine :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm Contact the list administrator at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There is the following record that might be them. Marriages Sep 1895 . However, its not clear as to who William married in this record. ________________________________ Bednall William Wolstanton 6b 192 Chidlow Mary Ann Wolstanton 6b 192 Kettle Elizabeth Wolstanton 6b 192 Plant William Sidnes Wolstanton 6b 192 Wolstanton is a suburban village on the outskirts of Newcastle-under-Lyme, Staffordshire. Mike Morris Toronto Canada ________________________________ From: Andrew Mason <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 6:53 AM Subject: [LAN] missing on 1911 Try as I might I cannot find my Grandma on the 1911 census, or any member of her family. Needing fresh pair of eyes. My Grandma Josephine Dodd was base born to Elizabeth Ann Dodd in 1903 I have her birth certificate, there were later 2 sisters Lily 1906 and Elizabeth Ann 1909 but these two girls are baptised with a father called William Henry Bednal, I have found no marriage for Wm and Elizabeth although it says on Elizabeth Ann’s bpt record that they were married at Albert Memorial in 1895. (Looked from 1891-1897 not there) <snip>

Try as I might I cannot find my Grandma on the 1911 census, or any member of her family. Needing fresh pair of eyes. My Grandma Josephine Dodd was base born to Elizabeth Ann Dodd in 1903 I have her birth certificate, there were later 2 sisters Lily 1906 and Elizabeth Ann 1909 but these two girls are baptised with a father called William Henry Bednal, I have found no marriage for Wm and Elizabeth although it says on Elizabeth Ann’s bpt record that they were married at Albert Memorial in 1895. (Looked from 1891-1897 not there) They are living together on the 1901 census as husband and wife. William Henry went into the Whittingham Lunacy Asylum having been transferred from Withington Workhouse in 1910 his address at that time was 32 Shrewsbury Street West, West Gorton, Manchester. In 1913 he died in the Lunacy Asylum. After talking to my Aunt Lynne at the weekend she remembers Grandma saying they were in and out of the workhouse for a while when she was very young. Was William Henry also my Grandma’s father? She names William Henry Dodd as her father on her marriage certificate. Where is the workhouse on the 1911 census nearest to the above address in West Gorton, I have looked for all the females under the name Bednal and Dodd and can’t find them. Mary Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

Thank you, but sadly Thomas Buck is not in my ancestral line. David. On 23 Apr 2017, at 20:54, familyhistory wrote: > Does Thomas Buck (1796-1863) High Bailiff of County Court fit in with your Buck research -if so I did a bit of work on his descendants a few years back. >

Does Thomas Buck (1796-1863) High Bailiff of County Court fit in with your Buck research -if so I did a bit of work on his descendants a few years back. On 23/04/2017 16:56, David Eaves wrote: > Hello, my name is David Eaves and live in the Clitheroe, Lancs. UK area and researching the following family lines: > EAVES - Preston 19th-20thC; Fylde 18th-present; Preston 13thC-18thC > BLUNDELL - Fleetwood & Southport 18th-19thC > LOVELADY - Preston 19th-20thC; Ormskirk 19thC; Ince Blundell 12th-19thC > PEMBERTON - Preston & Fylde 19th-20thC > DAY - Preston 19th-20thC; Oxford 17th-19thC > RICHARDS - Preston & Blackburn 19th-20thC > BUCK - 19th & 20thC Preston & Croston > SLATER - 19thC Blackburn > I am also researhing the Pendle village of Sabden, its industries and inhabitants 1770 to present. > > - Bob C http://www.bccy.org.uk and http://extra.bccy.org.uk

Hello, my name is David Eaves and live in the Clitheroe, Lancs. UK area and researching the following family lines: EAVES - Preston 19th-20thC; Fylde 18th-present; Preston 13thC-18thC BLUNDELL - Fleetwood & Southport 18th-19thC LOVELADY - Preston 19th-20thC; Ormskirk 19thC; Ince Blundell 12th-19thC PEMBERTON - Preston & Fylde 19th-20thC DAY - Preston 19th-20thC; Oxford 17th-19thC RICHARDS - Preston & Blackburn 19th-20thC BUCK - 19th & 20thC Preston & Croston SLATER - 19thC Blackburn I am also researhing the Pendle village of Sabden, its industries and inhabitants 1770 to present.

Happy St George's Day to you too Lynne, if Labour wins the election they have promised to make it a Bank Holiday (as with the other three Saint's Days too) Four more holidays a year sounds good to me :) Dot On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Lynne <[email protected]> wrote: > Happy St. George's Day to one and all. > > Lynne > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ > lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm > > Contact the list administrator at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

----Original message---- >From : [email protected] Date : 21/04/2017 - 15:09 (GMTST) To : [email protected], [email protected] Subject : Re: [LAN] John GODBEHERE Thank you Dot, most helpful I will not look up the will just yet but other comments follow. John’s parents were Thomas Godbehere 1796 1850 and Mary Woolfit 1806 – 1856 John’s siblings were (per 1841 census and public members trees) Richard 1829 – 1845, Thomas C 1831 – 1890, Selina 1840 – 1880 It would seem that William Woolfit Godbehere also has to be a son of Thomas and Mary and this is confirmed on IGI. I imagine that any connection with your Godbeheres is likely to be a further generation or two earlier. Rebecca Hodson was born 1833 St Peter at Gowts, Lincoln (Fa William 1791 and Mo Mary 1791). 1851 a servant at St Botolph, Lincoln died Lincoln 1858 age 25. As you say name of the infant may be in parish register. I believe the three children born at Failsworth described as children of John to be either an assumption by the census taker or an untruth designed to make them look like a normal family. There is no evidence of John marrying a Sarah which fits the other facts. This would mean that his first wife Ann had no other children. John returned to Lincoln with Elizabeth who died in Lincoln and Selina who married either Thomas Walker or John Baker Clarke in Lincoln in 1886 John seems to have become more responsible when he married Harriet Beaumont. She moved into the Hotel with her parents. It is likely that they helped finance the business. Harriet had 6 children with John and when she herself died in 1925 left £957. According to Kelly’s Directory for 1930 the Monson Arms Hotel was being run by Harry Brown Best wishes John Pepperdine

Dot, the name of Rebecca Hodson's illegimate child is almost certainly William Bateman Lloyd Hodson baptised 25 Nov 1855 at St Peter at Gowts, Lincoln. He appears on 1861 and 1871 census living with his grand parents. Every answer raises more questions. Why Bateman, why Lloyd? John Pepperdine ----Original message---- >From : [email protected] Date : 20/04/2017 - 21:13 (GMTST) To : [email protected], [email protected] Subject : Re: [LAN] John GODBEHERE Hi John, Lincoln City Petty Sessions 26 December 1855 John GODBEHERE was charged with being the father of the illegitimate child of Rebecca HODSON. Mr. TOYNBEE appeared for the defendant. A female to whom Godbehere paid his addresses in February and March last stated that he had told her of the connection with Hodson: but it was also proved that Hodson had stated in the presence of the wife of Godbehere, before they were married, and others, that what had been alleged as to an improper intercourse was untrue. Ordered to pay 1s. 6d. weekly.