Hello All, Grasping at straws, but I found a JAMES BARNES, Curate of St. James C of E, Haslingden from 1802 on Ancestry etc. Would anyone know where he came from or where he went afterwards. I can't seem to pick him up in 1841 and with so many of the same name, thought there may have been some Church Registry with a listing of Curates.....nothing found on the Church website. My own large BARNES TREE has numerous JAMES BARNES but none were C of E Ministers it seems......albeit Accrington, Whalley, Haslingden connections. Thanks for any help, Robyn --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hi Shirley, I found two Marriages of interest and I believe some of the family in 1841 etc. I found this family in 1841 in Blackburn. ELIZABETH PIERCE 55, Fishmonger, THOMAS 21 yrs., App. Blacksmith, MARY 15 yrs., DAVID 10 yrs. - Thereafter 4th May 1843 Blackburn Elizabeth aged 59 yrs., Burial - then MARRIAGE on OPC - possible son THOMAS PIERCE Marriage: 17 Sep 1843 Immanuel, Feniscowles, Lancashire, England Thomas Pierce - (X), full age, Smith, Bachelor, Blackburn Alice Nuttall - full age, Spinster, Blackburn Groom's Father: James Pierce, Shoemaker Bride's Father: Richd Nuttall, Farmer Witness: James Haslam; Wm Thompson Married by Banns by: Thomas G Walsh Notes: [Groom Signature seems to be 'Price' & Bride Signature is written 'Nuttle'] Register: Marriages 1838 - 1879, Entry 6 Source: LDS Film 1526145 HERE IS THE MARRIAGE I BELIEVE - 1803 - FMP and Ancestry (Entry 322 Parish of Haslingden) - He signs his name Pears, she with a mark. Her name is written as Guye. The Minister James Barnes..... Betty Last name Guys Name note Marriage year 1803 Marriage date 1803 Marriage place Haslingden Spouse's first name(s) James Spouse's last name Peers Residence Haslingden, Lancashire, England County Lancashire Country England Record set England Marriages 1538-1973 Category Life Events (BDMs) Subcategory Marriages & divorces Collections from United Kingdom Cheers, Robyn Australia --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hi Sally , I don't know where this wretched man can be , so far I have Haslingden where several ch were b then he moves to Chorley , more ch . Has two marriages 1804/6 abt , the 2nd abt 1816/17 . 3 ch b Tottington . Recently discovered this from OPC . James PIERCE b abt 1780's a Shoemaker . His 2nd wife's death cert. states , husband Shoemaker but not whether he is dead . Her surname GUY . thank you Shirley nee PIERCE NZ ----- Original Message Follows ----- > >   > "This shows that they would not have been married at St > Anne, Tottington.   Bruce has suggested that the likely > place may have been St Mary, Bury (the Parish Church).  > The marriage registers for this church are available on > the Lancashire On-Line Parish Clerk site > (http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ ) but I could not find a match > for this couple." > > > St Mary's, Bury's records aren't playing fair either. > Years available to search on LDS: 1591-1646, 1699-1754, > 1762-1802, 1837-1863. Sorry, Shirley :( > > Regards, > Sally > > > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Really Useful Sources: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm > > Contact the list administrator at > [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message

In my experience, if a death certificate described someone as "wife of" then husband was alive. Otherwise, she'd be described as "widow of". At least, that's the starting point. No doubt there are exceptions where the Registrar forgot to ask the right question or the other party had done a runner so that it was all a guess, etc. Adrian

Have you eliminated this baptism as part of the family : Baptism: 5 Jan 1806 St James, Haslingden, Lancashire, England Jenny Pierce - Daughter of James Pierce & Betty Born: 15 Dec Abode: Ewood If not it could affect when/where the marriage was. I see that the only way you could have Betty's family name, Guy, was from this record : Name Mary Ann Pierce Gender Female Christening Date 29 Apr 1823 Christening Place WEST STREET PRIMITIVE METHODIST,CHORLEY,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND Birth Date 25 Mar 1823 Father's Name James Pierce Mother's Name Betty Guy It's unfortunate that the 1806 baptism doesn't give James' occupation as there would then be a clearer indication that the Ewood, Tottington and Chorley families were one and the same. BobC On 02/06/2017 00:34, jayaness wrote: > Trying to find the 2nd marriage of James PIERCE and > Elizabeth ( Betty ) Guy . Two ch of this marriage bapt St > Ann, Tottington , > > Found these records Lancs OPC . Only Baptism's and death's > listed here . Would any kind person be anyone able to look > at Marriage records for the above couple , at St Ann church > abt 1816/1817 > > Fingers crossed this could be where they will be found . > > Shirley nee PIERCE NZ > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm > > Contact the list administrator at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Bob C http://www.bccy.org.uk and http://extra.bccy.org.uk

Hi, You ask - Trying to find the 2nd marriage of James PIERCE and Elizabeth ( Betty ) Guy . Two ch of this marriage bapt St Ann, Tottington , and Bruce has just written - > it doesn't look to me like any marriages took place there until 1862 - they would have been at the parish church in Bury before that. Bruce is correct, Hardwicke's Act that came into force in 1754 restricted the solemnisation of marriages to licensed churches and so some churches/chapels that had solemnised marriages prior to 1754 stopped doing so in 1754. An example from the Parish of Bury is Emmanuel Church, Holcombe. There are Bishop's Transcripts in Lancashire Archives, Preston, (http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/libraries-and-archives/archives-and-record-office/our-collections/church-registers-guide.aspx ) for the period 1730 - 1753. Marriages were only solemnised at Emmanuel after the introduction of civil registration in 1837. St Anne's, Tottington, was founded in 1791 to provide for the growing industrial community in the area. The baptism and burial registers start in 1799. The Diocese of Manchester uses Archives Plus in Manchester Central Library as its place of safety for parish registers no longer needed for religious purposes and its on-line catalogue (http://www.manchester.gov.uk/directory/100/church_registers ) only lists Marriages/Registers Marriages-1862-1944- MFPR 2185 Looking at Lancashire BMD Coverage of Marriages page (http://lancashirebmd.org.uk/marrcov.php?region=BY ), shows - Tottington, St. Ann 1862 Bury CE28 1862-1920 This shows that they would not have been married at St Anne, Tottington. Bruce has suggested that the likely place may have been St Mary, Bury (the Parish Church). The marriage registers for this church are available on the Lancashire On-Line Parish Clerk site (http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ ) but I could not find a match for this couple. Have you found them on a Census, or had they died before 1841? Do you know where they died? Hope this helps, Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.) On 02/06/2017 14:03, Adrian Bruce wrote: > Looking at the LDS Wiki for Tottington St Anne,

  "This shows that they would not have been married at St Anne, Tottington.   Bruce has suggested that the likely place may have been St Mary, Bury (the Parish Church).  The marriage registers for this church are available on the Lancashire On-Line Parish Clerk site (http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ ) but I could not find a match for this couple." St Mary's, Bury's records aren't playing fair either. Years available to search on LDS: 1591-1646, 1699-1754, 1762-1802, 1837-1863. Sorry, Shirley :( Regards, Sally

My slightly old list of PRs says that Lancashire Records Office know of no copy of a marriage register either. And if they don't....

Looking at the LDS Wiki for Tottington St Anne, it doesn't look to me like any marriages took place there until 1862 - they would have been at the parish church in Bury before that. I guess that it's possible that the pre and post 1837 Marriage Registers burnt while the Baptism and Burial Registers didn't? Hmmm The Wiki does imply some earlier marriages on Ancestry in the Manchester records but these are mislabeled baptisms. I know of no way to cross check if the chapel was able to do marriages. Adrian

Hi Shirley, The marriage records for the years you need for St Annes, Tottington don't appear to be available anywhere online at the moment. 1862-1930 is available on Ancestry.com and 1862-1900 is available on Lancs BMD but that's it. Nothing on Lancs OPC, Familysearch nor Find My Past. Someone would have to physically search the records in a records office and hope that they are looking in the right church. Sorry I don't have better news. Regards, Sally From: LANCSGEN <[email protected]> on behalf of jayaness <[email protected]> Sent: 02 June 2017 00:34 To: [email protected] Subject: [LAN] Tottington Marriage   Trying to find the 2nd marriage of James PIERCE and Elizabeth ( Betty ) Guy . Two ch of this marriage bapt  St Ann, Tottington , Found these records Lancs OPC . Only Baptism's and death's listed here . Would any kind person be  anyone able to look at Marriage records for the above couple , at St Ann church abt  1816/1817 Fingers crossed this could be where they will be found . Shirley nee PIERCE  NZ

Trying to find the 2nd marriage of James PIERCE and Elizabeth ( Betty ) Guy . Two ch of this marriage bapt St Ann, Tottington , Found these records Lancs OPC . Only Baptism's and death's listed here . Would any kind person be anyone able to look at Marriage records for the above couple , at St Ann church abt 1816/1817 Fingers crossed this could be where they will be found . Shirley nee PIERCE NZ

Hi Shirley, Did you see this entry on Ancestry. Is it possible she was Peggy not Betty. Name: James Pierce Gender: Male Marriage Date: 4 Jul 1813 Marriage Place: Eyton Upon The Weald Moors, Shropshire, England Spouse: Margaret Guy FHL Film Number: 502928, 510665 Cheers, Robyn --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Please is there anyone able to look up Methodist records for me . searching for a marriage . The OPC records have not as yet transcribed these records . Only C of E to date . James Pierce - a Shoemaker - and Elizabeth BENTLEY mar approx 1802/04 1st child John PIERCE b 14.4.1804 mar Sarah WEST 1831 . James 2nd wife Elizabeth GUY died Blackburn 1843 59 yrs . Both also known as Betty . The family moved to Chorley My line the youngest child David PIERCE b 1830 bap. 1831 . par James PIERCE and Elizabeth GUY . Confusion caused because son James b 1808 also mar an Elizabeth /WAREING . 12 ch so far found , mother for 6 youngest confirmed as GUY . Would love to hear from anyone researching this family . very interesting and as said confusing . Shirley NZ

According to the Non-conformist records on Ancestry James PEARCE, son of James and Betty was born at Kirk Hill, Haslingdon on Sep 13 1808 and baptised at King St Wesleyan Methodist on October 9th 1808 Mary Ann PIRCE da of James PIRCE and Elizabeth GUY born at Chorley on 25 Mar 1825 and was baptised at Chorley West St Chapel (Primitive Methodist) on 29 Apr 1823. James is listed as a Cordwainer. Because the marriage took place after 1754 and prior to 1737 they would have had, by, law, to have taken place in a C of E church unless they were Jews or Quakers. Fiona

Shirley There is no such thing as a marriage in a Methodist church prior to 1st July 1837. Hardwicke's marriage act of 1754 specifies that all marriages had to take place in a C of E church no matter what denomination unless they were Quakers or Jews The marriage was on 1st January 1831 in St Laurence, Chorley and he was listed as John Pearre on Ancestry!! And the details are on the OPC website as well. Regards John Hanson, researcher, the Halsted Trust, http://www.halstedresearch.org.uk New family history conference in 2018 http://www.secretlives.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: LANCSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of jayaness Sent: 31 May 2017 23:32 To: [email protected] Subject: [LAN] Haslingden records Please is there anyone able to look up Methodist records for me . searching for a marriage . The OPC records have not as yet transcribed these records . Only C of E to date . James Pierce - a Shoemaker - and Elizabeth BENTLEY mar approx 1802/04 1st child John PIERCE b 14.4.1804 mar Sarah WEST 1831 . James 2nd wife Elizabeth GUY died Blackburn 1843 59 yrs . Both also known as Betty . The family moved to Chorley My line the youngest child David PIERCE b 1830 bap. 1831 . par James PIERCE and Elizabeth GUY . Confusion caused because son James b 1808 also mar an Elizabeth /WAREING . 12 ch so far found , mother for 6 youngest confirmed as GUY . Would love to hear from anyone researching this family . very interesting and as said confusing . Shirley NZ :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm Contact the list administrator at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There wouldn't be a marriage in a Methodist Church in 1802. Google Hardwicke's Act and you will see that until 1837 marriages should only take place in a Parish Church to be legally recognized with the exception of Jews and Quakers Antony -----Original Message----- From: LANCSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of jayaness Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2017 11:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [LAN] Haslingden records Please is there anyone able to look up Methodist records for me . searching for a marriage . The OPC records have not as yet transcribed these records . Only C of E to date . James Pierce - a Shoemaker - and Elizabeth BENTLEY mar approx 1802/04 1st child John PIERCE b 14.4.1804 mar Sarah WEST 1831 . James 2nd wife Elizabeth GUY died Blackburn 1843 59 yrs . Both also known as Betty . The family moved to Chorley My line the youngest child David PIERCE b 1830 bap. 1831 . par James PIERCE and Elizabeth GUY . Confusion caused because son James b 1808 also mar an Elizabeth /WAREING . 12 ch so far found , mother for 6 youngest confirmed as GUY . Would love to hear from anyone researching this family . very interesting and as said confusing . Shirley NZ :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm Contact the list administrator at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Manchester & Lancashire Family History Society is marking the 200th anniversary of the Peterloo Massacre with a project about some of the people who were involved. The Society's aim is to create a social comment on the events of the time and is looking for family stories about the Peterloo Massacre in order to do so. Rod (Rodney) Melton, Jennifer Lever (webmaster), and Joan Secker Wlodarczyk are the coordinators of the project. The project's website is www.peterloo.mlfhs.org.uk Queries about the project as well as stories of your ancestors' experiences of the Peterloo Massacre can be shared by writing to [email protected] If you have tales to tell about your ancestors' experiences of Peterloo, please don't forget to also share them with us here on the list. Lynne

Hello Anne, Many thanks for this information. I think my initial enquiry this week has sparked a look sideways, which I do appreciate. No matter how experienced one is, there are often pieces not picked up on initial searches and your contribution will be useful. My drawn out enquiry, which I apologise for, did try to explain the particular family in question, but was to ask about Directory or Rate Book entries for Samuel Abrahams of Bolton, who died in Nantwich etc. in 1849. Any clues as to his younger life before marriage, could give a lead as to where and when he was born and exactly his parents' names and possible siblings. A lot of searching has been done online which has found some family in the USA, but no-one has found anything further about the UK connections. I have been told by his family, that the Abrahams were Jewish, but Samuel's wife, Mary it seems was not. The DC's for both Marcus, Father and Samuel Son have been purchased recently, with no hidden clues on either and no Wills found. Cheers, Robyn --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Thanks Mike, Andrew and Kay, for your interest and information. The lady whose family this belongs to has researched as best she could online on Ancestry and I shall send her the details of these Baptisms Mike, to be sure she's got them. The occupation Quill Dresser has never been mentioned, I believe, so she may not have seen the Baptisms as you've listed these below. Her concern at present is trying to prove the identity of these Abrahams in relation to Marcus ex Germany and son Samuel Abrahams who was born about 1807. The Marcus Abrahams in Manchester Directories through the 1820's and beyond, is a Tailor or Clothes Broker, there is also a Samuel Abrahams listed in the same place Hanging Ditch also as a Clothes Broker, but this Samuel is found in an 1817 Directory. Marcus Abraham's son Samuel Abrahams, dies in 1849 Nantwich, his age is given as 41yrs. And his occupation is given as Hardware Dealer, as it was in 1841 in Bolton. Samuel's Marriage record does not give occupation or parents' names, but the only evidence found as to his parentage, was his Burial in Nantwich, which states Samuel, son of Marcus Abrahams, aged 41 yrs. Indicating said Father was still alive. Some members of this family then emigrated to the USA and there have been Trees assembled along the way. I have been just trying to help her link these earlier UK lines. This is one brick wall that is a challenge. We have confirmed which Marcus Abrahams is named, but unfortunately his children's baptisms or marriage records have not been found, except a possible Baptism later in life for a Samuel Abrahams.....Father Marcus, Mother Maria. We have checked with various Jewish lists as well with no luck. Again, thanks for the information, it all helps. I was just wondering whether there was a particular Directory or Rates Book for Bolton which may have shown Samuel Abrahams in it. Cheers, Robyn --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hi Robyn, the burial entry for Samuel  (Cheshire Parish Registers) says he was buried 30 July 1849, of Hospital St,  Nantwich aged 41y, son of Marcus, also baptismal record for Eliza and Samuel Abrahams 28th Sept.1847, son and daughter of Samuel a general dealer and Marianne, plus baptismal record for a second Samuel 28 July 1850 son of Samuel a hardware dealer (deceased) and MaryAnn.Not quite what you were asking but hope it's useful !    Anne