Hi Robyn There is a James Heaton marrying Margaret Cunliffe in 1862 according to Lancashire BMD Regards Kerry (Young) From: Robyn Clarke Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 7:29 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [LAN] THOMAS CUNLIFFE 1871 Hello All, Could anyone please help me identify this man's Birth/Baptism. In 1871 THOMAS CUNLIFFE found as a 10 year old boy called a Step Son, by JAMES HEATON Collier of Clay Hole Ashton in Makerfield all born there. His wife is Margaret Griffiths, daughter of James Griffiths, I believe, as there is a Marriage for this pair in 1863 in Wigan. Both state Bachelor and Spinster and both aged 19 yrs. By 1871 they have had four other children, Mary Ann, Grace, Harriet and Margaret plus THOMAS CUNLIFFE as above. A mysterious entry - I just can't pick up the connection - TIA Robyn --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm Contact the list administrator at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello All, Could anyone please help me identify this man's Birth/Baptism. In 1871 THOMAS CUNLIFFE found as a 10 year old boy called a Step Son, by JAMES HEATON Collier of Clay Hole Ashton in Makerfield all born there. His wife is Margaret Griffiths, daughter of James Griffiths, I believe, as there is a Marriage for this pair in 1863 in Wigan. Both state Bachelor and Spinster and both aged 19 yrs. By 1871 they have had four other children, Mary Ann, Grace, Harriet and Margaret plus THOMAS CUNLIFFE as above. A mysterious entry - I just can't pick up the connection - TIA Robyn --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

The 1862 marriage was a Registrar's marriage so wouldn't show up on LAN-OPC, Familysearch etc. Mary Anne, Grace, Harriett and Margaret all show up as mother's maiden surname Cunliffe. A contender for Thomas would be : Baptism: 22 Sep 1861 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England Thomas Cunliffe - [Child] of Elizabeth Cunliffe Born: 23 May 1861 Abode: Scholes Baptised by: C. H. Newbold Clerk in Orders Register: Baptisms 1861 - 1865, Page 29, Entry 226 Needs checking but Elizabeth may have been Margaret's sister. BobC On 04/06/2017 14:56, Robyn Clarke wrote: > Hi Dorri, > Many thanks for your interest. The Marriage of a Margaret Cunliffe and > James Heaton has been found in 1862 Wigan.....which is what I was after. > The Marriage was on Lancashire BDMs...... > Much appreciated......as Grace will be theirs too I believe. > Cheers, > Robyn > > -----Original Message----- > From: LANCSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Dorri Roughley > Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 8:12 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [LAN] THOMAS CUNLIFFE 1871 > > Hi Robyn > > > Are you sure you have the right marriage for James and Margaret? > > > There is a birth record for Grace in 1865, mother's maiden name is Cunliffe. > HEATON, GRACE > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm > > Contact the list administrator at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Bob C http://www.bccy.org.uk and http://extra.bccy.org.uk

Further greetings, I found the following on LPR and thought you may be interested; Marriage: 29 Dec 1839 St Oswald, Winwick, Lancashire, England John Cunliffe - (X), Minor, Collier, Bachelor, Ashton Sarah Moore - (X), Minor, Spinster, Ashton Groom's Father: Henry Cunliffe, Banksman Bride's Father: James Moore, Labourer Witness: Robert Haselden, (X); Thomas Warburton Married by Banns by: Thomas J Whittington Curate Register: Marriages 1837 - 1843, Page 106, Entry 211 Source: FHL Film 1885709 and this shows on LansBMD: Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1839 CUNLIFFE John - MORRIS Sarah Blackburn, St Mary the Virgin (Blackburn Cathedral) Blackburn CE12/1A/377 And on freeBMD: Marriages Sep 1839 CUNLIFFE John - MORRIS Sarah Blackburn - 21 - 6 Once again, hth, David Greetings, I have Margaret CUNLIFFE, b.1840 on the 1851 and 1861 census. In 1851, her parents, John and Sarah and her younger siblings Henry and Anne are living with John's parents, Henry and Jane. By 1861 John has passed. John, Sarah and Margaret also appear on the 1841 census. Henry and Jane CUNLIFFE show in 1841 with two more sons, James and Miles. Everything appears to be happening in Ashton in Makerfield, Wigan. There are also two possible James HEATON in the 1851 census, one with parents William and Anne (William is a Weaver), and the other, James and Margaret (James Sr. is an Ag Lab). The 1862 marriage cert will determine which is which.. James appears with William and Anne in the 1841 (cannot find James and Margaret in 1841). hth David On 04/06/2017 14:56, Robyn Clarke wrote: > Hi Dorri, > Many thanks for your interest. The Marriage of a Margaret Cunliffe and > James Heaton has been found in 1862 Wigan.....which is what I was after. > The Marriage was on Lancashire BDMs...... > Much appreciated......as Grace will be theirs too I believe. > Cheers, > Robyn > > -----Original Message----- > From: LANCSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Dorri Roughley > Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 8:12 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [LAN] THOMAS CUNLIFFE 1871 > > Hi Robyn > > > Are you sure you have the right marriage for James and Margaret? > > > There is a birth record for Grace in 1865, mother's maiden name is > Cunliffe. > HEATON, GRACE :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm Contact the list administrator at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Greetings, I have Margaret CUNLIFFE, b.1840 on the 1851 and 1861 census. In 1851, her parents, John and Sarah and her younger siblings Henry and Anne are living with John's parents, Henry and Jane. By 1861 John has passed. John, Sarah and Margaret also appear on the 1841 census. Henry and Jane CUNLIFFE show in 1841 with two more sons, James and Miles. Everything appears to be happening in Ashton in Makerfield, Wigan. There are also two possible James HEATON in the 1851 census, one with parents William and Anne (William is a Weaver), and the other, James and Margaret (James Sr. is an Ag Lab). The 1862 marriage cert will determine which is which.. James appears with William and Anne in the 1841 (cannot find James and Margaret in 1841). hth David On 04/06/2017 14:56, Robyn Clarke wrote: > Hi Dorri, > Many thanks for your interest. The Marriage of a Margaret Cunliffe and > James Heaton has been found in 1862 Wigan.....which is what I was after. > The Marriage was on Lancashire BDMs...... > Much appreciated......as Grace will be theirs too I believe. > Cheers, > Robyn > > -----Original Message----- > From: LANCSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Dorri Roughley > Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 8:12 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [LAN] THOMAS CUNLIFFE 1871 > > Hi Robyn > > > Are you sure you have the right marriage for James and Margaret? > > > There is a birth record for Grace in 1865, mother's maiden name is > Cunliffe. > HEATON, GRACE

Hi Tom, Are you aware that John Thomas Wood, son of Sarah Wood was found in 1891 living around the corner from Gas St., 11 Heath Rd., as John T. Webb, 9 yrs. son of James Webb aged 28 yrs., Coal Miner, Staff. And wife Sarah 30, Ashton M., plus Eliza 3 and Susannah 2 born Wigan. James Webb was found in 1881 aged 18 yrs., New Chapel, Staff. Boarding in Ince as a Coal Miner. It appears they married 21 March 1887 in Ashton M. - The other Marriage entries do not appear to match. Thereafter 1891 had further children. The family relocates to the USA around 1904-8 and are found in Pennsylvania in 1910. John Thomas Webb is Naturalised there confirming his birthdate and place of birth, but with surname Webb. I guess your question relates as to whether James Webb was indeed John's natural Father, as was stated in the UK Census pages, not step-son. Good luck, Robyn --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hi Robyn Are you sure you have the right marriage for James and Margaret? There is a birth record for Grace in 1865, mother's maiden name is Cunliffe. HEATON, GRACE CUNLIFFE GRO Reference: 1865 S Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 99 Check out www.gro.gov.uk Unfortunately there are a considerable number of Thomas Cunliffes of the right age born in the Wigan district who are illegitamate. Good Luck in your hunt Dorri ________________________________ From: LANCSGEN <[email protected]> on behalf of Robyn Clarke <[email protected]> Sent: 04 June 2017 10:29 To: [email protected] Subject: [LAN] THOMAS CUNLIFFE 1871 Hello All, Could anyone please help me identify this man's Birth/Baptism. In 1871 THOMAS CUNLIFFE found as a 10 year old boy called a Step Son, by JAMES HEATON Collier of Clay Hole Ashton in Makerfield all born there. His wife is Margaret Griffiths, daughter of James Griffiths, I believe, as there is a Marriage for this pair in 1863 in Wigan. Both state Bachelor and Spinster and both aged 19 yrs. By 1871 they have had four other children, Mary Ann, Grace, Harriet and Margaret plus THOMAS CUNLIFFE as above. A mysterious entry - I just can't pick up the connection - TIA Robyn --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm Contact the list administrator at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank so much to all the wonderful people on this site who came to my aid . Robyn found James marriage on the England marriages 1538-1973 site , one I use often . I am as you can imagine very happy . James PEERS mar Betty GUYS (spelling ) 1803 , Haslingden . This fits with 1st child John b 1804 , Haslingden . I have found 12 ch to date , could be more as there are few gaps . My David the last 1830. I have learnt a lot from all the replies . It does not matter how long you spend looking and learning , there is always more . This proves only one marriage so am now away to inform my cousin in Arizona and i know she will be as happy as I am . This is just the best site ever . Shirley nee PIERCE NZ

Thanks Fiona and Colin, Much appreciated. I shall look at it all in the morning, now well after my bedtime, Cheers, Robyn -----Original Message----- From: LANCSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Fiona Hall Sent: Saturday, June 3, 2017 11:58 PM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [LAN] James Barnes, Curate of Haslingden Yes - blame typing on the laptop whilst watching Sir Andy at the Tennis! :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm Contact the list administrator at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Every few years, I post to the list in hopes of obtaining any new ideas as to how to find the identity of my grandfather's father. John Thomas Wood was born in Ashton in Makerfield 14 July 1881, the son of Sarah Wood, christened at St. Thomas as follows: Baptism: 19 Jul 1881 St Thomas, Ashton in Makerfield, Lancs. John Thomas Wood - [Child] of Sarah Wood, Spinster Born: 14 Jul 1881 Abode: Gas Street Baptised by: H Siddall Register: Baptisms 1874 - 1887, Page 182, Entry 1451 Source: LDS Film 1885659 I started looking into my genealogical background back in the mid 80's after the death of my father with the primary purpose of finding this information. I have been fortunate to have discovered much about my English roots but this vital component has eluded me for over 30years now. It was always a topic never discussed while my father was alive but in discussions with my mother and my father's only remaining sister after his death they both thought that it was never even revealed to my grandfather who his biological father was. Looking for a miracle, Tom

Yes - blame typing on the laptop whilst watching Sir Andy at the Tennis!

Hi Fiona I assume that you mean www.theclergydatabase.org.uk  ? Colin ⁣Sent from TypeApp ​ On 3 Jun 2017, 14:43, at 14:43, Fiona Hall <[email protected]> wrote: >Hi Robyn > > > >If you go to the CCEd database the clergydatabase.org.uk , there is a >record of his career. It seems James died in 1829 and never made it >beyond >curate. > > > >He became a Deacon in May 1802 in the Diocese of Chester and was >Priested in >September 1802. He became Curate of Haslinden in 1802 and was appointed >Perpetual Curate of Langho and Samlesbury as well. > > > >He does not feature on the Oxford or Cambridge alumni records on >Ancestry so >may have trained elsewhere such as St Bees > > > >Fiona > > > > >:-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > >Really Useful Sources: >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm > >Contact the list administrator at [email protected] > >:-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Robyn If you go to the CCEd database the clergydatabase.org.uk , there is a record of his career. It seems James died in 1829 and never made it beyond curate. He became a Deacon in May 1802 in the Diocese of Chester and was Priested in September 1802. He became Curate of Haslinden in 1802 and was appointed Perpetual Curate of Langho and Samlesbury as well. He does not feature on the Oxford or Cambridge alumni records on Ancestry so may have trained elsewhere such as St Bees Fiona

With only the mother listed he was most likely illegitimate. Check the bastardy orders in the archives A2A). I don't know if all towns are available but I found one relative that way. It's possible no one but the mother knew. Some have used male DNA to get the surname if not the exact person. Good Luck. On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 18:08:21 +0000 (UTC), "T. Wood" wrote: Every few years, I post to the list in hopes of obtaining any new ideas as to how to find the identity of my grandfather's father. John Thomas Wood was born in Ashton in Makerfield 14 July 1881, the son of Sarah Wood, christened at St. Thomas as follows: Baptism: 19 Jul 1881 St Thomas, Ashton in Makerfield, Lancs. John Thomas Wood - [Child] of Sarah Wood, Spinster Born: 14 Jul 1881 Abode: Gas Street Baptised by: H Siddall Register: Baptisms 1874 - 1887, Page 182, Entry 1451 Source: LDS Film 1885659

On 3 June 2017 at 14:20, Rodney Whale <[email protected]> wrote: > ... Thanks for the explanation. > I will look at the sources you listed and hopefully my education/knowledge > will be improved. > > Yes - it's always useful to get as close to reality as possible. The LDS Catalogue, because it's describing the actual films, is one step closer to reality than the data in FamilySearch, which is in turn one step closer than the Archer site - very useful though that is. The FS records can be a little odd in their place-names, he said diplomatically! And then the GENUKI stuff is well regarded. Adrian

On 3 June 2017 at 13:45, Rodney Whale <[email protected]> wrote: > The Family Search entries to which I referred are each listed as St. > Anne's, Turton, Tottington. > I assume therefore that it is a different church which has the same > denomination. > Perhaps you are able to confirm that is the case. > The Archer list puts M012383 under Tottington and labels it St. Anne, marriages 1720-31. Going from the Archer site via the links into FamilySearch, I see events at "St. Anne'S, Turton,Tottington, Lancashire, England" on film 2113216 (batch numbers don't seem helpful these days on the FS site). The LDS Catalogue shows that 2113216 refers to St. Ann's Church, **Turton** in **Bolton** parish. The Lancashire RO Yellow Book refers to TURTON, St Anne (Bolton le Moors); (and also to TURTON, Walmsley, Christ Church (Bolton le Moors) incidentally). These entries are quite separate from TOTTINGTON, St Anne (Bury); (and also TOTTINGTON, Holcombe, Emmanuel (Bury) ) (Caps are from the original document). I will assume that we can trust the Lancashire RO Yellow Book of sources and that therefore Turton and Tottington are separate places even though both have a St Anne to confuse us. The LDS Catalogue appears to be correct (or at least to match Lancs RO), but the records in FamilySearch appear to have been labelled with this composite place Turton,Tottington that simply doesn't exist. (Based on Google maps, the 2 places appear to be abut 4m apart). As a result the Archer site has gone awry. See http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Turton/ and http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Tottington/ Adrian

Hello Jim, Thanks for the explanation. I will look at the sources you listed and hopefully my education/knowledge will be improved. Rod. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hi, Folks, Bruce wrote - > Quite where that is in relation to St. Anne, I have no idea. Marriages there appear to stop with the 1754 Act to restart in 1850 so it doesn't seem to provide an​ alternative. and Rod replied - > The Family Search entries to which I referred are each listed as St. Anne's, Turton, Tottington. This is not surprising as 'Tottington' is a Lancashire place name whose meaning depends on time and context. The Parish of Bury had several townships, the two northern ones being Tottington Higher End (with a chapel of ease in Edenfield), and Tottington Lower End (with a chapel of ease at Holcombe). There is an excellent and full account of these townships in the Victoria County History of Lancashire (see http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/lancs/vol5/pp143-150 with a map pp122-128). There is also a modern interpretation of the maps in the VCH in Mancuniuensis (http://www.mancuniensis.info/BuryParishFP.htm ).# Turton is a township in north part of the Parish of Bolton (see VCH pp273-281 and Mancuniensis). Genuki has a page about the church (St Anne) in this township (http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Turton/StAnne ) Hope this helps, Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.) On 03/06/2017 07:10, Adrian Bruce wrote: > Quite where that is in relation to St. Anne, I have no idea. Marriages > there appear to stop with the 1754 Act to restart in 1850 so it doesn't > seem to provide an​alternative.

Hello Adrian, Thanks for the reply. The Family Search entries to which I referred are each listed as St. Anne's, Turton, Tottington. I assume therefore that it is a different church which has the same denomination. Perhaps you are able to confirm that is the case. Regards, Rod. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hello Shirley, It would seem from Ancestry etc., that a possible entry for your Betty Guy is found as the daughter of Christopher Guy, occup. Barber and wife Martha, Bapt. August 28, 1785. As well, Anne 1788 and John 1790. All Haslingden and all with same parents. Said Elizabeth Pierce was stated as died in 1843 aged 59 yrs. Blackburn. So that age is rather closer than the 1841 entry of 55 yrs. Which of course is variable in 1841 five or so years. I knew you probably had the info. about Thomas Pierce and siblings, but thought I'd send it just in case.......But I am happy to have found the 1803 Marriage as I personally would grab it, as nothing else has come to light. Cheers, hope this helps a bit, Robyn --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus