LANCAT would be fine if the records were in Preston. However the parish records for Ashton in Makerfield are in Wigan and it would be useful to check with them as to what additional records they may hold. Regards John Hanson, researcher, the Halsted Trust, http://www.halstedresearch.org.uk New family history conference in 2018 http://www.secretlives.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: LANCSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of familyhistory Sent: 06 June 2017 21:25 To: [email protected] Subject: [Norton AntiSpam]Re: [LAN] Father of John Thomas Wood - Ashton in Makerfield Linda, A2A was discontinued a few years back. Its successor is Discovery at The National Archives (TNA): discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk . Like the old A2A this acts as a pointer to local archives where documents are not held at TNA. You will not find those for Lancashire easily by searching TNAs Discovery for "Bastardy", better to use Lancashire Archives search facility, LANCAT. BobC On 06/06/2017 19:04, Linda wrote: > If there was an order against the father and it's been digitized, it would be in the A2A archives under Bastardy Orders. > > > > On Tue, 6 Jun 2017 15:56:13 +0100, Dot holden wrote: > > With regards to Sarah Wood and her three children - is there any > record in the Parish records of an order being made against the > father of the children? She must have had an income from somewhere in > order to manage and they were usually very keen to make the woman tell > who the father was so he could be made to contribute. > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Really Useful Sources: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.h > tm > > Contact the list administrator at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Bob C http://www.bccy.org.uk and http://extra.bccy.org.uk :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm Contact the list administrator at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Does that include the more recent Ancestry DNA test? I had one done years but the more recent one does seem to work better on GEDMatch. Martin Briscoe Fort William [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: LANCSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ralph Taylor Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2017 10:28 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LAN] DNA Testing The other DNA testing leaders (Ancestry DNA and 23andMe) don't offer the kind of yDNA tests which permit matching. (It's known as a ySTR test.)

Linda, A2A was discontinued a few years back. Its successor is Discovery at The National Archives (TNA): discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk . Like the old A2A this acts as a pointer to local archives where documents are not held at TNA. You will not find those for Lancashire easily by searching TNAs Discovery for "Bastardy", better to use Lancashire Archives search facility, LANCAT. BobC On 06/06/2017 19:04, Linda wrote: > If there was an order against the father and it's been digitized, it would be in the A2A archives under Bastardy Orders. > > > > On Tue, 6 Jun 2017 15:56:13 +0100, Dot holden wrote: > > With regards to Sarah Wood and her three children - is there any record in > the Parish records of an order being made against the father of the > children? She must have had an income from somewhere in order to manage > and they were usually very keen to make the woman tell who the father was > so he could be made to contribute. > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm > > Contact the list administrator at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Bob C http://www.bccy.org.uk and http://extra.bccy.org.uk

I think you will find that by the time in question Bastardy Orders were granted at Petty Sessions. I have checked on-line records for those indexed at Lancashire Archives but nothing there. The issue the authorities trying to name the father was mainly where the mother needed poor law support (out relief or workhouse). On 06/06/2017 15:56, Dot holden wrote: > With regards to Sarah Wood and her three children - is there any record in > the Parish records of an order being made against the father of the > children? She must have had an income from somewhere in order to manage > and they were usually very keen to make the woman tell who the father was > so he could be made to contribute. > > -- Bob C http://www.bccy.org.uk and http://extra.bccy.org.uk

Thanks for the information, Bob. I broke through one of my brick walls with a bastardy order on A2A which is why I always recommend it. I didn't realize it was no longer there as I haven't had a need to use it in the past few years. I'll bookmark the link you sent. Thanx, Linda On Tue, 6 Jun 2017 21:25:01 +0100, familyhistory wrote: Linda, A2A was discontinued a few years back. Its successor is Discovery at The National Archives (TNA): discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk . Like the old A2A this acts as a pointer to local archives where documents are not held at TNA. You will not find those for Lancashire easily by searching TNAs Discovery for "Bastardy", better to use Lancashire Archives search facility, LANCAT. BobC On 06/06/2017 19:04, Linda wrote: > If there was an order against the father and it's been digitized, it would be in the A2A archives under Bastardy Orders. > > > > On Tue, 6 Jun 2017 15:56:13 +0100, Dot holden wrote: > > With regards to Sarah Wood and her three children - is there any record in > the Parish records of an order being made against the father of the > children? She must have had an income from somewhere in order to manage > and they were usually very keen to make the woman tell who the father was > so he could be made to contribute. > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm > > Contact the list administrator at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Bob C http://www.bccy.org.uk and http://extra.bccy.org.uk :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm Contact the list administrator at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

With regards to Sarah Wood and her three children - is there any record in the Parish records of an order being made against the father of the children? She must have had an income from somewhere in order to manage and they were usually very keen to make the woman tell who the father was so he could be made to contribute. >> >> "The mother of Frances appears to be in the 1881 census living with her >> parents (John & Isabela) at 5 Dobbs Court, Ashton. Frances is not with the >> family. That Sarah's age is given as 20 making her DoB ~1861. " >> >> I do have the right Sarah, it's just that her mother, Catherine had died >> and her husband, John Wood the (unemployed) Bricklayer had re-married. >> >> I did have reservations about the first Sarah given that her age in 1876 >> would have been ~16 but the address certainly pointed to it being the >> same. If I understand the chronology Sarah (daughter of Frances) was >> living with her mother in 1861 at Dobbs Court. In 1871 she was with her >> Aunt (Mary Naylor) at Heath Lane but probably went to a relative in Dobbs >> Court in 1881 for the birth of Frances; there were two Wood families in >> Dobbs Court in 1881. >> >> To return to your original enquiry regarding the father of John Thomas >> Wood, I assume you have eliminated the obvious - James Gee (?) the 20 year >> old son of Robert, who was also living at 5 Dobbs Court, Ashton-in-M in >> 1881. He would have been the same age as Sarah. >> >> >> >> >>>

Tom asked: "I am looking for anyone having experience with DNA testing and the information it may provide for determining the identity of ancestors. My primary interest is to find the identity of the father of my paternal grandfather. How would DNA testing advance this endeavor?" I have experience -- not only having the available types of DNA tests -- but being the administrator of a large DNA project for a common surname. Basically, DNA testing (hopefully) links you up with living cousins who've done the same kind of DNa test and have DNA sufficiently similar to yours for a "match". The idea is to exchange genealogical information with those cousins to identify the common ancestor(s) and flesh out your pedigrees. If you're looking for a direct paternal lineage, I'd suggest yDNA testing; the leading company in this area is Family Tree DNA, www.familytreedna.com, which has a database of >600,000 yDNA results and automated tools to find your matches. The other DNA testing leaders (Ancestry DNA and 23andMe) don't offer the kind of yDNA tests which permit matching. (It's known as a ySTR test.) I'd also suggest a test of at least 37 markers. The few with very rare haplotypes can get away with lesser resolutions; some with very common haplotypes may need more. You'll know more about where you stand on this question AFTER seeing the results. AND, I'd recommend joining the DNA projects for your surname plus other surnames of interest. This will gain you the assistance of the project administration teams to help you with the process. A paternal great-grandfather is certainly within the range of a yDNA test; its limit is about 24 generations -- roughly coinciding with the universal surname era. A caveat is that you can't match if your (unknown?) cousins haven't tested. This is more a problem in the UK, where yDNA has been slow to catch on, than in the New World: US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. -rt_/)

If there was an order against the father and it's been digitized, it would be in the A2A archives under Bastardy Orders. On Tue, 6 Jun 2017 15:56:13 +0100, Dot holden wrote: With regards to Sarah Wood and her three children - is there any record in the Parish records of an order being made against the father of the children? She must have had an income from somewhere in order to manage and they were usually very keen to make the woman tell who the father was so he could be made to contribute. [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello all, Here are the latest records to be added to the Lancashire Online Parish Clerks website. The search engine has been updated to include these databases in the returned results. http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/indexw.html 2 Jun 2017 Baptisms 1786 to 1840 from the Moravian Church in the Parish of Droylsden Baptisms 1817 to 1820 and 1822 to 1824 from the Church of St Peter, Bolton Burials 1911 to 1968 from the Church of St Elphin in the Parish of Warrington Regards, Sally

So where I said: "The mother of Frances appears to be in the 1881 census living with her parents (John & Isabela) at 5 Dobbs Court, Ashton. Frances is not with the family. That Sarah's age is given as 20 making her DoB ~1861. " I do have the right Sarah, it's just that her mother, Catherine had died and her husband, John Wood the (unemployed) Bricklayer had re-married. I did have reservations about the first Sarah given that her age in 1876 would have been ~16 but the address certainly pointed to it being the same. If I understand the chronology Sarah (daughter of Frances) was living with her mother in 1861 at Dobbs Court. In 1871 she was with her Aunt (Mary Naylor) at Heath Lane but probably went to a relative in Dobbs Court in 1881 for the birth of Frances; there were two Wood families in Dobbs Court in 1881. To return to your original enquiry regarding the father of John Thomas Wood, I assume you have eliminated the obvious - James Gee (?) the 20 year old son of Robert, who was also living at 5 Dobbs Court, Ashton-in-M in 1881. He would have been the same age as Sarah. Of course identifying the real father would be pretty well impossible without using DNA - you only need to watch a few episodes of "Jeremy Kyle" to see examples of where the mother is "100%" certain who the father is (and that father's name has been entered on the birth certificate) only to be proved wrong by DNA, to be wary of "proof by document". BobC On 05/06/2017 20:48, T. Wood wrote: > > This demonstrates the danger of making assumptions. These three records were not the same person. > > The first Sarah was the daughter of Frances Wood born in 1851 > The second Sarah was the daughter of John and Catherine Wood born in 1860 > The third Sarah was the daughter of Thomas and Ann Wood born in 1865 > > John, Frances and Thomas were siblings making the three Sarahs cousins. > > Tom > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: John The Genes <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 2:50 PM > Subject: Re: [LAN] Father of John Thomas Wood - Ashton in Makerfield > > > > Put herself about a bit, didn't she? I have one like that who was clearly on the game as a young woman, but one of her illegitimate daughters made an excellent marriage and Mama ended up in a nice house with servants in Birkdale. I doubt that the past was often discussed. It brings a tear to my eye even now. > -- > John Lynch > > > > >> Baptism: 14 May 1876 St Thomas, Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire, England >> Frances Wood - [Child] of Sarah Wood, Spinster >> Born: 14 May 1876 >> Abode: Dobbs Court >> Baptised by: H Siddall >> Register: Baptisms 1874 - 1887, Page 59, Entry 470 >> >> Baptism: 19 Jul 1881 St Thomas, Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire, England >> John Thomas Wood - [Child] of Sarah Wood, Spinster >> Born: 14 Jul 1881 >> Abode: Gas Street >> Baptised by: H Siddall >> Register: Baptisms 1874 - 1887, Page 182, Entry 1451 >> >> Baptism: 5 Sep 1888 St Thomas, Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire, England >> Hannah Wood - [Child] of Sarah Wood, Spinster >> Born: 20 Aug 1888 >> Abode: Wigan Road >> Baptised by: H. Siddall >> Register: Baptisms 1887 - 1900, Page 31, Entry 245 >> > -- Bob C http://www.bccy.org.uk and http://extra.bccy.org.uk

This demonstrates the danger of making assumptions. These three records were not the same person. The first Sarah was the daughter of Frances Wood born in 1851 The second Sarah was the daughter of John and Catherine Wood born in 1860 The third Sarah was the daughter of Thomas and Ann Wood born in 1865 John, Frances and Thomas were siblings making the three Sarahs cousins. Tom ________________________________ From: John The Genes <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [LAN] Father of John Thomas Wood - Ashton in Makerfield Put herself about a bit, didn't she? I have one like that who was clearly on the game as a young woman, but one of her illegitimate daughters made an excellent marriage and Mama ended up in a nice house with servants in Birkdale. I doubt that the past was often discussed. It brings a tear to my eye even now. -- John Lynch > Baptism: 14 May 1876 St Thomas, Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire, England > Frances Wood - [Child] of Sarah Wood, Spinster > Born: 14 May 1876 > Abode: Dobbs Court > Baptised by: H Siddall > Register: Baptisms 1874 - 1887, Page 59, Entry 470 > > Baptism: 19 Jul 1881 St Thomas, Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire, England > John Thomas Wood - [Child] of Sarah Wood, Spinster > Born: 14 Jul 1881 > Abode: Gas Street > Baptised by: H Siddall > Register: Baptisms 1874 - 1887, Page 182, Entry 1451 > > Baptism: 5 Sep 1888 St Thomas, Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire, England > Hannah Wood - [Child] of Sarah Wood, Spinster > Born: 20 Aug 1888 > Abode: Wigan Road > Baptised by: H. Siddall > Register: Baptisms 1887 - 1900, Page 31, Entry 245 > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Really Useful Sources: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lancsopc/RUS/guide.htm Contact the list administrator at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Put herself about a bit, didn't she? I have one like that who was clearly on the game as a young woman, but one of her illegitimate daughters made an excellent marriage and Mama ended up in a nice house with servants in Birkdale. I doubt that the past was often discussed. It brings a tear to my eye even now. -- John Lynch > Baptism: 14 May 1876 St Thomas, Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire, England > Frances Wood - [Child] of Sarah Wood, Spinster > Born: 14 May 1876 > Abode: Dobbs Court > Baptised by: H Siddall > Register: Baptisms 1874 - 1887, Page 59, Entry 470 > > Baptism: 19 Jul 1881 St Thomas, Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire, England > John Thomas Wood - [Child] of Sarah Wood, Spinster > Born: 14 Jul 1881 > Abode: Gas Street > Baptised by: H Siddall > Register: Baptisms 1874 - 1887, Page 182, Entry 1451 > > Baptism: 5 Sep 1888 St Thomas, Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire, England > Hannah Wood - [Child] of Sarah Wood, Spinster > Born: 20 Aug 1888 > Abode: Wigan Road > Baptised by: H. Siddall > Register: Baptisms 1887 - 1900, Page 31, Entry 245 >

There seem to be quite a few illegitimate births around this time to a Sarah Wood, Spinster of Ashton-in-M : Baptism: 14 May 1876 St Thomas, Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire, England Frances Wood - [Child] of Sarah Wood, Spinster Born: 14 May 1876 Abode: Dobbs Court Baptised by: H Siddall Register: Baptisms 1874 - 1887, Page 59, Entry 470 Baptism: 19 Jul 1881 St Thomas, Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire, England John Thomas Wood - [Child] of Sarah Wood, Spinster Born: 14 Jul 1881 Abode: Gas Street Baptised by: H Siddall Register: Baptisms 1874 - 1887, Page 182, Entry 1451 Baptism: 5 Sep 1888 St Thomas, Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire, England Hannah Wood - [Child] of Sarah Wood, Spinster Born: 20 Aug 1888 Abode: Wigan Road Baptised by: H. Siddall Register: Baptisms 1887 - 1900, Page 31, Entry 245 Now if these were all the same Sarah Wood the last one seems to conflict with Sarah marrying in March 1887, though the marriage of James Webb/Sarah Wood does show them both at 5 Gas St, the same as where John Thomas was born. The mother of Frances appears to be in the 1881 census living with her parents (John & Isabela) at 5 Dobbs Court, Ashton. Frances is not with the family. That Sarah's age is given as 20 making her DoB ~1861. I found this reference to Gas St : https://www.flickr.com/photos/themakerfieldrambler/22795079616 Gas St, Ashton in Makerfield Most British towns and cities had, at one time, a “Gas Street” at or near the municipal gasworks. Dobbs Court, off Gerard St, was renamed Gas Street about 1880. .... In 1997 Wigan MBC notified its intention to apply for “an Order authorising the stopping-up of the highway known as Gas Street, Ashton-in-Makerfield on the ground that the said highway is unnecessary” (London Gazette, 17 December 1997). Now nameless and largely forgotten, part of the cobbled surface of Gas St is still visible between numbers 13 (Wigan & Leigh Hospice Shop) and 15 (Job Centre) Gerard St. Number 1 Gas St, seen here on the right, has been incorporated as the rear portion of the Hospice Shop. So 5 Dobbs Court became 5 Gas Street which does make it appear that the mother of Frances was also the mother of John Thomas. From LancashireBMD it appears that Frances died aged 0 in 1876. For completeness it also appears that the mother of Hannah married Hugh Astley a coal miner from Wales in Wigan Reg. Office in 1890. Hannah Wood became Anna Astley, the family are living at Heath Rd in 1891. Sarah Wood had been living with her parents, Thomas and Ann together with six siblings at 12 Mill Lane Ashton-in-M in 1881. BobC On 04/06/2017 02:05, Robyn Clarke wrote: > Hi Tom, > Are you aware that John Thomas Wood, son of Sarah Wood was found in 1891 > living around the corner from Gas St., 11 Heath Rd., as John T. Webb, 9 yrs. > son of James Webb aged 28 yrs., Coal Miner, Staff. And wife Sarah 30, Ashton > M., plus Eliza 3 and Susannah 2 born Wigan. > James Webb was found in 1881 aged 18 yrs., New Chapel, Staff. Boarding in > Ince as a Coal Miner. It appears they married 21 March 1887 in Ashton M. - > The other Marriage entries do not appear to match. Thereafter 1891 had > further children. > The family relocates to the USA around 1904-8 and are found in Pennsylvania > in 1910. John Thomas Webb is Naturalised there confirming his birthdate and > place of birth, but with surname Webb. > I guess your question relates as to whether James Webb was indeed John's > natural Father, as was stated in the UK Census pages, not step-son. > Good luck, > Robyn > > > -- Bob C http://www.bccy.org.uk and http://extra.bccy.org.uk

It can give clues. I found a very close match on Ancestry and contacted the person. He was in Australia and lots of people in his tree from my home town in Lancashire but no names I recognised. He did say that he did not know who his Grandmother's father was. He got back to me and said that he believed the father was one of my family. The number of generation separating us from the DNA fitted exactly and there are a series of other factor that make us 99% sure of it - perhaps more than most people can be sure about their own father! I have also been able to prove that someone born in the 19th Century was illegitimate. Also found some others who are related but there are others who appear to have a relationship but not been able to identify it. Martin Briscoe -----Original Message----- From: LANCSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of T. Wood Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 4:41 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [LAN] DNA Testing I am looking for anyone having experience with DNA testing and the information it may provide for determining the identity of ancestors. My primary interest is to find the identity of the father of my paternal grandfather. How would DNA testing advance this endeavor? Tom

I am looking for anyone having experience with DNA testing and the information it may provide for determining the identity of ancestors. My primary interest is to find the identity of the father of my paternal grandfather. How would DNA testing advance this endeavor? Tom

>From Bolton & District FHS: David Casserly, local school teacher and historian, is this month's speaker. He has has made it his mission to study how Bolton was affected by the series of three English Civil Wars that took place in the 17th century over a period of 9 years. These were desperate and brutal times stemming from religious and some racial conflict, and his story includes the background to the Bolton Massacre of 1644 for which we have just had the 373rd anniversary on May 28th. The Findmygrave website https://goo.gl/fefzGI records 25 graves still present in St Peters Church yard, although it is thought there were many more died of injuries and elsewhere. The venue is at the Bolton Old Links Golf Club, Chorley Old Rd, Bolton BL1 5SU and it starts at 7.30pm. As usual we will have tea and coffee available for 7pm, our book and stationery stall, and Help Desk afterwards. All welcome, with a small charge to non-members. For more information contact Barbara Owen on 01204 309515 or via our website http://www.bolton.mlfhs.org.uk/.

Hi Tom The DNA-Newbie list can help you with that. See http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/DNA/DNA-NEWBIE.html for information and subscription links. There are many other DNA mailing lists, but most of them deal with specific surnames. You can find all of the DNA lists by entering DNA into the search field at http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ You might also take a look at the many DNA message boards. Kind regards, Lynne "T. Wood" <[email protected]> wrote: > >I am looking for anyone having experience with DNA testing and the information it may provide for determining the identity of ancestors. > > >My primary interest is to find the identity of the father of my paternal grandfather. How would DNA testing advance this endeavor? > >Tom

Thank you David, your entries are most interesting and I shall study them further later today. I am concentrating on Thomas Cunliffe at present, not my family, but trying to help resolve a family mystery. Cheers, Robyn -----Original Message----- From: LANCSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 5:24 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LAN] THOMAS CUNLIFFE 1871 Greetings, I have Margaret CUNLIFFE, b.1840 on the 1851 and 1861 census. In 1851, her parents, John and Sarah and her younger siblings Henry and Anne are living with John's parents, Henry and Jane. By 1861 John has passed. John, Sarah and Margaret also appear on the 1841 census. Henry and Jane CUNLIFFE show in 1841 with two more sons, James and Miles. Everything appears to be happening in Ashton in Makerfield, Wigan. There are also two possible James HEATON in the 1851 census, one with parents William and Anne (William is a Weaver), and the other, James and Margaret (James Sr. is an Ag Lab). The 1862 marriage cert will determine which is which.. James appears with William and Anne in the 1841 (cannot find James and Margaret in 1841). hth David --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hi Dorri, Many thanks for your interest. The Marriage of a Margaret Cunliffe and James Heaton has been found in 1862 Wigan.....which is what I was after. The Marriage was on Lancashire BDMs...... Much appreciated......as Grace will be theirs too I believe. Cheers, Robyn -----Original Message----- From: LANCSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dorri Roughley Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 8:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LAN] THOMAS CUNLIFFE 1871 Hi Robyn Are you sure you have the right marriage for James and Margaret? There is a birth record for Grace in 1865, mother's maiden name is Cunliffe. HEATON, GRACE --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus