Thank you Mike. I don’t know weather to tell my wife she could be descended from royalty. I think I’d best try to trace it all out first, before she demands an invitation to Harry and Megan’s wedding! Seriously I will have to trace it all out and see what comes through. Thanks again Cheers, Ron King From: Mike Morris Sent: Sunday, 6 May 2018 22:10 To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Subject: [LAN] Re: Chisnall family from Rochdale/Bolton Hello Ron, There were a lot of PRESTONS in the Cartmel area of Cumbria. In that area they were aristocrats. They even have a Hall. The city of Preston was named after the Preston's. According to some old record I came across and lost, one of their female relatives was one of the wives of Henry the Eighth. Cartmel is a village in Cumbria, England, 2.2 miles north-west of Grange-over-Sands and close to the River Eea. The village was once known as Kirkby in Cartmel, as it was the location of the church for the large parish of Cartmel. The Preston's took over Holker hall around 1610 and the last owner from the Preston family died in 1697 and left it to his daughter Catherine. She married Sir William Lowther. Sir William's son Sir Thomas laid out the formal gardens and added the north wing to the house. There is a record that George Preston of Holker Hall presented the west screen and stall backs to Cartmel Priory between 1618 and 1622. Regards, Mike Morris Toronto Canada ________________________________ From: "ronking4847@gmail.com" <ronking4847@gmail.com> To: "LANCSGEN@rootsweb.com" <LANCSGEN@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2018 10:31 PM My main search in Lancashire is the CHISNALL family, there are various ways to spell it, from the Rochdale/Bolton area. So far I have traced them back to Richard CHISNALL b; 1638 whom I believe married Jane HILTON b; 1657. In my wife’s family I am researching the PRESTONS from the Manchester area. They probably originated in Preston or Leyland as I have a Robert PRESTON b; 1720 in Leyland married to Jennet BENNET, born around the same year. <SNIPPED>

Hello Ron, There were a lot of PRESTONS in the Cartmel area of Cumbria. In that area they were aristocrats. They even have a Hall. The city of Preston was named after the Preston's. According to some old record I came across and lost, one of their female relatives was one of the wives of Henry the Eighth. Cartmel is a village in Cumbria, England, 2.2 miles north-west of Grange-over-Sands and close to the River Eea. The village was once known as Kirkby in Cartmel, as it was the location of the church for the large parish of Cartmel. The Preston's took over Holker hall around 1610 and the last owner from the Preston family died in 1697 and left it to his daughter Catherine. She married Sir William Lowther. Sir William's son Sir Thomas laid out the formal gardens and added the north wing to the house. There is a record that George Preston of Holker Hall presented the west screen and stall backs to Cartmel Priory between 1618 and 1622. Regards, Mike Morris Toronto Canada ________________________________ From: "ronking4847@gmail.com" <ronking4847@gmail.com> To: "LANCSGEN@rootsweb.com" <LANCSGEN@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2018 10:31 PM My main search in Lancashire is the CHISNALL family, there are various ways to spell it, from the Rochdale/Bolton area. So far I have traced them back to Richard CHISNALL b; 1638 whom I believe married Jane HILTON b; 1657. In my wife’s family I am researching the PRESTONS from the Manchester area. They probably originated in Preston or Leyland as I have a Robert PRESTON b; 1720 in Leyland married to Jennet BENNET, born around the same year. <SNIPPED>

Thank you for allowing me to join your group. My name is Ron and I was born in Bootle (the one near Liverpool) in the late 1940’s. My wife, who is also from Bootle, and we currently live near Adelaide in Sth. Australia. I have been researching both of our trees for about three years and had some success though I do have trouble keeping on track whilst searching. I tend to go off down interesting looking pathways. My main search in Lancashire is the CHISNALL family, there are various ways to spell it, from the Rochdale/Bolton area. So far I have traced them back to Richard CHISNALL b; 1638 whom I believe married Jane HILTON b; 1657. There does seem to be a discrepancy in the ages there so I need to do some more checking unless one of the members can assist. In my wife’s family I am researching the PRESTONS from the Manchester area. They probably originated in Preston or Leyland as I have a Robert PRESTON  b; 1720 in Leyland married to Jennet BENNET, born around the same year. Cheers, Ron King

Goodshaw Baptist Old Chapel The only source I know is Rawtenstall Library. They have some old books and things from the old Baptist Chapel. I do have some copies, but not with me [I am currently in France]. I will try and check when I get back to Blightly later this coming week. I have not checked recently, but Lancashire Online Parish Clerks may have something? Baptist Old Chapel was never [so far as I am aware] licensed for marriages. Most of the early ones were either at Haslingden or Burnley / Habergham Eaves. Later in the 1800's Goodshaw C of E did marriages. John Riley Family originally from Meadowhead [1841 census]. ----- Original Message ----- > > Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2018 15:42:03 +1200 > From: Shirley Brown <essanjay37@gmail.com> > Subject: [LAN] Goodshaw > To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <CAO8tNkbFNJE+GLJn8dUUswe3XVvSQQ5oxF=a3gJ0h3Q9COHsvA@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I have an 1803 marriage found ancestry records . > " Lancs C of E marriages and Banns 1754-1936 " > The marriage was Baptist Old Chapel , Goodshaw . > I cannot find any further records for Goodshaw . > Any ideas please !!! > > My James PIERCE mar Betty GUYE > The surname has been transcribed as James PEERS and all the children have > the surname PIERCE , Betty has dropped the 'E' in her surname . The > actual marriage record has the surname as James PEARS and James has signed > PIERS . > I always thought Haslingden as the place they married . > Any suggestion as to where to look . I am considering a full DNA test . > There is one being undertaken by the one name PIERCE rootsweb . > > Shirley > > End of LANCSGEN Digest, Vol 13, Issue 25 > **************************************** >

Thanks Jim. I have taken your advice and this is what she says If there is a time against the date of birth then there was more than one child born alive at the birth. If however a mother had twins, one liveborn and one stillborn, then the live born twin will not have a time against the birth. Until 1926 there were no registrations at all of a still born child. Having said that, again the early registrations are not consistent. The registrar in the Eton district did not put the times of births of twins in the registers at all until 1845 while the one in Stoke-on-Trent put times against all the registrations up until about 1850. It is possible to check for twins by looking for identical or consecutive GRO references in the indexes. I have checked the GRO Indexes and no matches so it looks,to me, like the Wigan Registrar did the same as the Stoke on Trent one. Thanks again Pamela -

Scottish births (and deaths) include date and time of birth (death) https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/statutory-registers/births#Time Regards Stuart ________________________________ From: jim lancaster <lancaster.jim@zen.co.uk> Sent: 04 May 2018 09:22 To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Subject: [LAN] Re: Time on Birth Certificate Hi, Pamela, To add to Nivard's explanation, you might find Barbara Dixon's site helpful - http://www.dixons.clara.co.uk/Certificates/indexbd.htm England & Wales Registration Certificate Tutorials<http://www.dixons.clara.co.uk/Certificates/indexbd.htm> www.dixons.clara.co.uk Tutorials on the usage, past and present, of the entries on England and Wales birth death and marriage certificates for family historians Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.) On 04/05/2018 15:00, Pamela Simmons via LANCSGEN wrote: > Thanks Nivard - very helpful as usual. > Regards > Pamela > - _______________________________________________ :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. http://www.genuki.org.uk/ Contact the list administrator at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/lancsgen@rootsweb.com/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/lancsgen@rootsweb.com/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hi, Pamela, To add to Nivard's explanation, you might find Barbara Dixon's site helpful - http://www.dixons.clara.co.uk/Certificates/indexbd.htm Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.) On 04/05/2018 15:00, Pamela Simmons via LANCSGEN wrote: > Thanks Nivard -  very helpful as usual. > Regards > Pamela > -

Thanks Nivard - very helpful as usual. Regards Pamela -

No not across the board, the only time it should be recorded, is in the case of multiple births To show which the the first born, for inheritance amongst other things As I said previously not all registrars followed the instructions though Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 04-May-18 2:28 PM, Susan Slade Grossl wrote: > Is the time of the birth not given on birth certificates in the UK? Here in > the US the time of birth is given. Why would it not be? Just curious. > > Susan > Boise, Idaho, USA

Is the time of the birth not given on birth certificates in the UK? Here in the US the time of birth is given. Why would it not be? Just curious. Susan Boise, Idaho, USA -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington [mailto:ovington.one@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 7:14 AM To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Subject: [LAN] Re: Time on Birth Certificate Hi Pamela In the early days of civil registration, some of the registrars were not fully aware of the rules laid down so put down the time on all events This tended to cease post 1850 or so when rules were tightened up. As you haven't found any other likely linked births, you would need to check the other births registered by the same registrar to see if other registrations also had a time on I have found the local offices can be very helpful if asked nicely, as are the GRO Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 04-May-18 1:53 PM, Pamela Simmons via LANCSGEN wrote: > Is it always the case that when the time of birth is given on a Birth Certificate it is because of a multiple birth? I have the Certificate of > my 2xG Aunt Margaret Gibson - she was born on 23rd August 1850 at 11pm at Union St Wigan. I have checked for other births & deaths around the > same time but cannot find another. She was registered by her father on 31st August 1850. > Regards > Pamela

Hi Pamela In the early days of civil registration, some of the registrars were not fully aware of the rules laid down so put down the time on all events This tended to cease post 1850 or so when rules were tightened up As you haven't found any other likely linked births, you would need to check the other births registered by the same registrar to see if other registrations also had a time on I have found the local offices can be very helpful if asked nicely, as are the GRO Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 04-May-18 1:53 PM, Pamela Simmons via LANCSGEN wrote: > Is it always the case that when the time of birth is given on a Birth > Certificate it is because of a multiple birth? I have the Certificate of > my 2xG Aunt Margaret Gibson - she was born on 23rd August 1850 at 11pm > at Union St Wigan. I have checked for other births & deaths around the > same time but cannot find another. She was registered by her father on > 31st August 1850. > Regards > Pamela

Is it always the case that when the time of birth is given on a Birth Certificate it is because of a multiple birth? I have the Certificate of my 2xG Aunt Margaret Gibson - she was born on 23rd August 1850 at 11pm at Union St Wigan. I have checked for other births & deaths around the same time but cannot find another. She was registered by her father on 31st August 1850. Regards Pamela

You could try the Court Leet records https://archive.org/details/courtleetrecord11coungoog On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 3:19 AM, dianna charles <diamonddi57@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > Hi Thanks for your reply, I was hoping to find more details on the actual > trial, like a transcript I guess. Thanks for the information though is the > Manchester Courier etc available online for that date. Many thanks Dianna > > -----Original Message----- From: john-hardy--- via LANCSGEN > Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 9:52 AM > To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com > Cc: john-hardy@talktalk.net > Subject: [LAN] Re: Manchester Borough Quarter Sessions > > > Dianna, > At Manchester Borough Sessions, Mary Britcliffe, aged 19, was transported > 10 years for stealing two sovereigns. > [Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser, 13th September 1845] > <Can anyone please tell me if there maybe actual transcripts of court > appearances of the above for 4 September 1845. I am trying to find out a > little more on my convict ancestor MARY BRITCLIFFE, she does not appear as > far as I could see on the 1841 Census. Her mum and sister do, Hannah > BRITCLIFFE and Elizabeth/Betty in Salford, Deansgate. Would like to find > out more from Mary’s trial if anything can be found. Kindest regards > Dianna> > > _______________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. > http://www.genuki.org.uk/ > > Contact the list administrator at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/lancsgen > @rootsweb.com/ > > Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/lancsgen > @rootsweb.com/ > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Hi Thanks for your reply, I was hoping to find more details on the actual trial, like a transcript I guess. Thanks for the information though is the Manchester Courier etc available online for that date. Many thanks Dianna -----Original Message----- From: john-hardy--- via LANCSGEN Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 9:52 AM To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Cc: john-hardy@talktalk.net Subject: [LAN] Re: Manchester Borough Quarter Sessions Dianna, At Manchester Borough Sessions, Mary Britcliffe, aged 19, was transported 10 years for stealing two sovereigns. [Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser, 13th September 1845] <Can anyone please tell me if there maybe actual transcripts of court appearances of the above for 4 September 1845. I am trying to find out a little more on my convict ancestor MARY BRITCLIFFE, she does not appear as far as I could see on the 1841 Census. Her mum and sister do, Hannah BRITCLIFFE and Elizabeth/Betty in Salford, Deansgate. Would like to find out more from Mary’s trial if anything can be found. Kindest regards Dianna> _______________________________________________

Dianna, At Manchester Borough Sessions, Mary Britcliffe, aged 19, was transported 10 years for stealing two sovereigns. [Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser, 13th September 1845] <Can anyone please tell me if there maybe actual transcripts of court appearances of the above for 4 September 1845. I am trying to find out a little more on my convict ancestor MARY BRITCLIFFE, she does not appear as far as I could see on the 1841 Census. Her mum and sister do, Hannah BRITCLIFFE and Elizabeth/Betty in Salford, Deansgate. Would like to find out more from Mary’s trial if anything can be found. Kindest regards Dianna>

Hi List Can anyone please tell me if there maybe actual transcripts of court appearances of the above for 4 September 1845. I am trying to find out a little more on my convict ancestor MARY BRITCLIFFE, she does not appear as far as I could see on the 1841 Census. Her mum and sister do, Hannah BRITCLIFFE and Elizabeth/Betty in Salford, Deansgate. Would like to find out more from Mary’s trial if anything can be found. Kindest regards Dianna

Thank you for the update Lynne, sad to see the Gateway go :( Dot On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 9:40 PM, Lynne <lklein@mindspring.com> wrote: > Hello all > > It's been such a very long time since the gateway from the message board > to this list has worked, you probably forgot it even existed. If you don't > remember what it was, it was a way for any posts made on the message board > that corresponds with this list to be posted to the list. It was a one-way > system: posts from the board came to the list, but you couldn't post back > to the board without actually going to the board and posting there. > > Anyway, list owners have been told that the gateway will be eliminated > altogether. If you've been waiting for the gateway to be fixed, you're out > of luck. If you're interested to read what's being said on the matching > board -- and most of the time the board is more active than the list -- you > need to go to that board and view the posts. Like the mailing lists, the > boards are free to use. All you need to do is register once with a name > and a working email address. > > You can view all of the message boards by going to > https://www.ancestry.co.uk/boards/ and then either using the search field > to find a particular location, topic, or surname, or by scrolling down to > the categories. > > Goodbye, gateways. I will miss you! > > Lynne > list owner > > > _______________________________________________ > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. > http://www.genuki.org.uk/ > > Contact the list administrator at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/ > lancsgen@rootsweb.com/ > > Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/ > lancsgen@rootsweb.com/ > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Hello all It's been such a very long time since the gateway from the message board to this list has worked, you probably forgot it even existed. If you don't remember what it was, it was a way for any posts made on the message board that corresponds with this list to be posted to the list. It was a one-way system: posts from the board came to the list, but you couldn't post back to the board without actually going to the board and posting there. Anyway, list owners have been told that the gateway will be eliminated altogether. If you've been waiting for the gateway to be fixed, you're out of luck. If you're interested to read what's being said on the matching board -- and most of the time the board is more active than the list -- you need to go to that board and view the posts. Like the mailing lists, the boards are free to use. All you need to do is register once with a name and a working email address. You can view all of the message boards by going to https://www.ancestry.co.uk/boards/ and then either using the search field to find a particular location, topic, or surname, or by scrolling down to the categories. Goodbye, gateways. I will miss you! Lynne list owner

If it's in the England & Wales National Probate Calendar, then I imagine it'll be orderable through https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills just like any other will. Normally, of course(?), we say that Admins aren't worth getting but as this says "Admin (with will)" then I imagine that the Admin will have the will attached to it. The original probate will have been obtained in Bonn, in West Germany - this is basically the "reading in" of that document into the English & Welsh legal system. At any rate, that's my belief.... Adrian

I wonder if anyone can help with a query re my 2xG Uncle who was a German Citizen. He came to England in the 1880's and married my 2x G Aunt in 1894. They had a Hotel in Leigh and around 1914 he was sent to the Isle of Man as an Enemy Alien. He was repatriated to Bonn(his birthplace) after the 1914- 18 war and never returned to England. His wife died in 1924 and he died on 1 November 1949 in Bonn Germany. In the National Probate Calendar I have found "Admin (with will) London 4th April 1952 to the Administrator of German Enemy Property Effects £500 in England". Any ideas as to where I can get a copy of the will? Regards