John, I've rarely read a post which both moved me so much and inspired huge admiration for the poster. Your mum and 'dad' both did a great job in rearing an individual who is both well-balanced and compassionate, they must both have been remarkable individuals. The idea of so-called ancestral memory has, I know, been ridiculed in some quarters but having experienced this myself I believe it does exist and can, in certain people, manifest itself. A Williams

On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 at 11:16, familyhistory <familyhistory@bccy.org.uk> wrote: ... > > Which could have been his ancestor but I haven't been able to source an > image of the will itself - LDS don't have images from that far back > which rather begs the question of where Durham University have been able > to extract the above information from. ... From URL http://familyrecords.dur.ac.uk/nei/data/images.php#earlywills "The pre-1650 wills and inventories "Note that the pre-1650 original wills and inventories etc (series DPR/I/1) were not digitised by the GSU, as they were still being sorted and numbered at the time. These will not therefore be included in the initial tranche of digital images made available online, though we hope we may be able to have them digitised separately at a later date. They are, however, included within this online catalogue. "The pre-1695 bonds "These are small parchment documents, double-sided (most later bonds are single sided paper documents, though still written in two 'parts'). Most include seals, and for this reason these documents cannot be photocopied without risking damage to the originals. "Because many of these early bonds are badly obscured by dirt, they would require extensive cleaning and conservation work before they could be photographed satisfactorily. For this reason, the pre-1695 probate bonds were not digitised by the GSU, and digital images of them will not be made available on their Family Search website. ... " Adrian

June, The Northumberland/Durham one reawakened an interest I had in tracing a Cuthbert Gibson of Burnley who appears to have come from Barningham (near Barnards Castle) around 1700. I hit on this record : -------------- Cuthbert GIBSON, of Hoode in the parish of Midleton in Teasdaile (Midelton in Teasedale, Middleton) [Middleton in Teesdale, County Durham]; also spelt Cuthbart Date of probate: 1637     will, 13 July 1637 (DPR/I/1/1637/G2/1)     indented inventory, actual total £54 10s (with account of debts and funeral expenses of £41), 25 July 1637 (DPR/I/1/1637/G2/2-3)     bond, 1637 (DPR/I/3/1637/B242) ---------------- Which could have been his ancestor but I haven't been able to source an image of the will itself - LDS don't have images from that far back which rather begs the question of where Durham University have been able to extract the above information from. Anyway, many thanks for the link which, if nothing else made me revisit the families and I have been able to supplement some of my Lancashire data with transcriptions done since my original research. BobC On 02/08/2018 10:13, June Dowling via LANCSGEN wrote: > My sincere apologies if these sites have already been mentioned -- the correspondence on this subject has been quite 'booming' - and my age related brain shrinkage causes me to overlook things!! > Derbyshire have some interesting records here on their 'Yesterdays Journey' site. > http://sites.rootsweb.com/~spire/Yesterday/index.htm > > Northumberland and Durham pre 1858 Wills are on Family Search as browsable, BUT -- if you go to this site; > http://familyrecords.dur.ac.uk/nei/data/simple.php > > Enter the details - select the will you want and click the link - you will be taken straight to that Will on the Family Search site and can save or print it. > Regards June > > -- Bob C http://www.bccy.org.uk and http://extra.bccy.org.uk

The book about the Bulloughs is Eccentric Wealth by Alastair Scott, published by Birlinn. He made his money making the machines for cotton mills rather than cotton spinning. He built Kinloch Castle on Rum and it had every modern convenience. It is rather sad now, it needs a lot of money spending on it but of course there is little available. You can get across for the day but you must check ferry timetables carefully because the Small Isles service does different routes each day. But you can get over by mid-morning, walk to the castle, go on a tour and walk back in time for the afternoon ferry. You need special permission to take vehicles to any of the Small Isles. We locals (Highland Council area) get free passage on the ferry with the "bus pass" so it can be a nice little cruise in good weather. He is said to have brought craftsmen up from Lancashire to work on building the house. He wanted them to wear kilts but they were reluctant after encountering the Highland Midges so he had to pay them extra. Martin Briscoe Fort William Ancestry DNA, FTDNA (B68554), GEDMatch (A374507) -----Original Message----- From: June Dowling via LANCSGEN [mailto:lancsgen@rootsweb.com] Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 9:15 AM To: martin@mbriscoe.me.uk; lancsgen@rootsweb.com Cc: June Dowling <june.dowling@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [LAN] Re: Surname distribution Martin, Thank you SO much for the brilliant links. The story in link 1 is really amazing and the photos in link 2 -- wonderful. I have read the paperback about George Bullough some years ago, but didn't know his divorce papers were on Ancestry. I will check those out. For people who have never heard of George Bullough -- the firm of Howard and Bullough were major employers in the small town of Accrington, Lancs (or Accy as it is known locally --- situated next to Ossy -- Oswaldtwistle!) Thank you again Martin. (How come you know so much when you live so far away!!) Regards June

This is for Mike Morris, Linda, Martin Briscoe and anyone else who has commented on my post about DNA and my father. It doesn't trouble me particularly. I was born in early 1943 so conceived in 1942. There was a war on. The man I think of as my father was in the army. My mother and my older sister were living near an airfield close to the south coast. At that time, no-one knew how the war was going to end and people didn't always behave as they would usually have done. My father survived the war and brought me up as though I'd been his, making no distinction between my sister (in fact, half sister) and me. I never knew differently. He's been dead a long time; my mother is still alive at 103 and still fully marbled up but I'm not going to ask her now. 'Hey, Mam, who was me Dad really? You can tell us now.' (I grew up in the northeast). No, I can't see myself playing that scene. The only reason to want to know is that my approach to genealogy is that it tells me what forces made me who I am, and I've had to discount the whole Irish ancestry I thought I had, and understand that - DNA-wise - I'm 47% Ashkenazi Jewish. I thought the commonest names in my tree on my father's side were Lynch, Haniford and Driscoll. I now know that top of the list is Cohen. I've been genealogising for more than 30 years and I tell people I'm descended from several long lines of bastards - which is true; I just didn't realise I was one of them. But some interesting things emerge. I spent 40+ years in international sales and I always loved the Middle East and especially the Arabian Peninsula. I like Saudi Arabia, which most British people don't, and whenever I landed in Abu Dhabi, which I did a lot, I felt as though I was coming home. Now I find I'm genetically linked to there. I never felt any affinity with Ireland. Irish people would hear my name and ask where my family came from and I'd say, 'Oh, I've had the operation. All my Irish blood has been removed.' It was a joke, but now I discover I was right! I have more Neanderthal DNA than most people, which I find amusing as long as it doesn't mean I have to become an Everton supporter. My paternal haplogroup is J-L210 which, according to 23andme, was carried by the first farmers in the Fertile Crescent. I love hot weather - high 30s and 40s hot. I used to tell my mother I'd been born 1,000 miles too far north and I held her responsible. It's only now that I wonder what went through her mind when I said that. And, let's face it - whoever my biological father was, it's extremely unlikely that he's still alive. If he was, say, a Polish airman, he may well have died before the war ended. -- John Lynch > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Briscoe (W10 laptop) <list@mbriscoe.me.uk> > Sent: 03 August 2018 19:28 > To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com > Subject: [LAN] Re: Genealogy Advancement Through DNA Test Results > > You never know, probably people in Poland are having tests done and of > course many Poles over here. Just needs to be a close relative of your > biological father. > > Martin Briscoe

Martin, Thank you SO much for the brilliant links. The story in link 1 is really amazing and the photos in link 2 -- wonderful. I have read the paperback about George Bullough some years ago, but didn't know his divorce papers were on Ancestry. I will check those out. For people who have never heard of George Bullough -- the firm of Howard and Bullough were major employers in the small town of Accrington, Lancs (or Accy as it is known locally --- situated next to Ossy -- Oswaldtwistle!) Thank you again Martin. (How come you know so much when you live so far away!!) Regards June From: Martin Briscoe (W10 laptop) <list@mbriscoe.me.uk> To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, 3 August 2018, 21:09 Subject: [LAN] Re: Surname distribution And don't forget George Bullough who built Kinloch Castle.  His divorce papers are on Ancestry and make quite colourful reading.  :-) http://www.isleofrum.com/isleofrumheritag.php https://www.flickr.com/photos/doffcocker/albums/72157687568015802 There is a book about him that is available in paperback. Martin Briscoe Fort William Ancestry DNA, FTDNA (B68554), GEDMatch (A374507)

thank you all for your replies . I was very pleased my message finally went through . Lynne has been very good and told me to just keep trying Shirley NZ On Sat, Aug 4, 2018 at 12:57 PM Nan Bailey <aus.bailey@gmail.com> wrote: > I received this one as well. > > Nan Bailey > > _______________________________________________ > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. > http://www.genuki.org.uk/ > > Contact the list administrator at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe and Archives > https://mailinglists.rootsweb.com/listindexes/search/lancsgen > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Marsha, I agree with your assessment that DNA results are only as good as the populations of those tested, and as suggested by others, the UK database is not yet well developed. My own ancestry DNA results seem to bear this out. My ancestry DNA results show England and Wales (Northern England & the Midlands - East Midlands / Yorkshire & Pennines) 91%. Whilst this supports my known strong connections to Lancashire (predominantly south Manchester), eastern Cheshire/Staffordshire and the three Ridings of Yorkshire, it does not reflect my paternal male line which traces back to at least 1711 exclusively in the Medway area of Kent and the East End of London. I am pleased to say, however, that I have had two positive contacts from 3rd cousins with identified common ancestors in south Manchester and the West Riding of Yorkshire. Regards Richard Harris Cayman Islands -----Original Message----- From: M. Stringer <stringer@mstringer.net> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2018 3:31 PM To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com; M. Stringer <stringer@mstringer.net> Subject: [LAN] Re: Genealogy Advancement Through DNA Test Results Hi, I tested with both FTDNA and Ancestry and am fairly challenged with DNA researching. I 'think' that the origins sections refer back to ancient origins, so not necessarily reflective of our more recent histories - and not always obviously helpful. Also, the results are based on the populations of those tested, thus a low percentage can mean not many from a particular area have tested. Also, different companies interpret results differently. For me, each grandparent immigrated to the USA from a different country, thus I anticipated abt 25% each for England, Ireland, Italy and Portugal (Azores). The origins results are not so balanced. Particularly low Italian showing via Ancestry, higher via FTDNA - likely because fewer participants from Italy. As various populations increase participation, the percentages should change. FYI, FTDNA is having a summer sale - with their FamilyFinder autosomal test currently at $59. Not sure if there would be a further discount if testing via one of the projects? Re Trees Before testing, I was happy to share with identified 'rellies' about shared lines, but never posted any public tree. As with DNA we have 'answers' (matches), but don't know the connections, I created a limited/direct line tree for the FTDNA site. I've more recently posted a direct line tree on Ancestry. Marsha Stringer stringer@mstringer.net --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com

I received this one as well. Nan Bailey

Hello Shirley, I cannot help with your query but the message arrived safely to my computer and I suspect to those of other subscribers to this list. Regards, Rod in Hampshire. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: "I found out that the man I thought was my father was not my biological father. Who was? I've no idea and I don't suppose I'll ever know. It was wartime and..." John's situation is actually fairly common. For identifying a biological patriline, the Y chromosome STR test is generally preferred. It will often identify a surname and, for multi-source names, a genetic family within that name. Because the Y chromosome is relatively stable, the test can reach back many generations, to roughly the 14th century. Recently, a man with a completely unknown father joined our Taylor DNA project. We were able to quickly identify from which Taylor family his father came. After more work, we pinned down his father to either of two brothers. At present, only one company (Family Tree DNA) offers this test and has an adequate database of results. (Ancestry DNA and 23andMe tests are primarily of other DNA.) Unfortunately, yDNA doesn't work as well for Lancashire men -- for the simple reason that one can't match someone who hasn't also tested and has their results in the same database. Few in the British Isles have done this test, so one is relying primarily on the subset of families who emigrated to America and have living descendants. . -rt_/)

Congratulations, Tom. Good work. While the evidence may be (at least partly) circumstantial, it seems reasonable. Sometimes, circumstantial is as good as it gets. Just another comment or so: 1. One won't necessarily match all one's fourth cousins. Autosomal DNA inheritance is messy. The DNA gets chopped into smaller segments and some of those get over-written. 2. For this and other reasons, it's a good idea to test not only yourself but also both parents. If not a parent, then a cousin on that side of your family. This also helps to determine on which side (maternal or patrna) the match is comong from. -rt_/)

Trying once again as my last 3 tries have been rejected . A recently discovered marriage for an older sister of my David PIERCE , b 1830 . Betsy PIERCE b 1817 , Chorley mar Timothy FOTHERGILL 23 Jan 1848 , St Mary, Lancaster . Parents James PIERCE - Shoemaker and Betty GUYE, mar 1803 Haslingden . Keen to hear from anyone researching these families Shirley nee PIERCE

Hi, I tested with both FTDNA and Ancestry and am fairly challenged with DNA researching. I 'think' that the origins sections refer back to ancient origins, so not necessarily reflective of our more recent histories - and not always obviously helpful. Also, the results are based on the populations of those tested, thus a low percentage can mean not many from a particular area have tested. Also, different companies interpret results differently. For me, each grandparent immigrated to the USA from a different country, thus I anticipated abt 25% each for England, Ireland, Italy and Portugal (Azores). The origins results are not so balanced. Particularly low Italian showing via Ancestry, higher via FTDNA - likely because fewer participants from Italy. As various populations increase participation, the percentages should change. FYI, FTDNA is having a summer sale - with their FamilyFinder autosomal test currently at $59. Not sure if there would be a further discount if testing via one of the projects? Re Trees Before testing, I was happy to share with identified 'rellies' about shared lines, but never posted any public tree. As with DNA we have 'answers' (matches), but don't know the connections, I created a limited/direct line tree for the FTDNA site. I've more recently posted a direct line tree on Ancestry. Marsha Stringer stringer@mstringer.net -----Original Message----- From: Penny Trueman [mailto:maudtrueman@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2018 2:18 PM To: Linda Pauwels; lancsgen@rootsweb.com Subject: [LAN] Re: Genealogy Advancement Through DNA Test Results I 'know' the (alleged) nationality of my biological father and I 'know' his alleged occupation in WW2 (pilot, Polish Airforce). But I don't have a name. So I think (really) I am never going to find his family. Both my son and I did DNA tests with Ancestry, but apart from telling me that I had a large percentage of Eastern European in me, I wouldn't know how to use that information. Best Wishes, Penny On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 4:28 PM, "Linda" <linsfam@myfairpoint.net> wrote: > Some say they have no luck with UK matches as many don't test, but I've > had some excellent matchees in England that added more than 100 people to > my tree. One was a 5th cousin but clearly documented. If people would > just post their tree with their DNA, more people could find them. > > > On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 15:42:48 +0100, "Martin Briscoe (W10 laptop)" wrote: > > There does seem a lot of paranoia about it, there are many more important > privacy issues with data. >

Something I have brought up several times There are far more important issues to worry about with dna research than the police finding a perpetrator of a crime who frankly deserve to be caught Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 03/08/2018 20:26, Sharee Hughes wrote: > Unless you're a criminal and don't want the police to track you through > your DNA, what's the problem? > > Sharee

And don't forget George Bullough who built Kinloch Castle. His divorce papers are on Ancestry and make quite colourful reading. :-) http://www.isleofrum.com/isleofrumheritag.php https://www.flickr.com/photos/doffcocker/albums/72157687568015802 There is a book about him that is available in paperback. Martin Briscoe Fort William Ancestry DNA, FTDNA (B68554), GEDMatch (A374507) -----Original Message----- From: June Dowling via LANCSGEN [mailto:lancsgen@rootsweb.com] Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 8:35 PM To: Mike Morris <morrisind@rogers.com>; lancsgen@rootsweb.com Cc: June Dowling <june.dowling@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [LAN] Re: Surname distribution Hi Mike --- yes, it's great when you discover something like that. Often streets were named after the relatives of the landowners or the builders. Particularly in cases where a street has a female christian name - it's sometimes named after the wife, mother or relative of the landowner. Accrington is not my own home town, but the famous Peel family were landowners etc and a lot of streets were named after their relatives. Later when the town started trading with countries abroad - a street would be named after that country - such as Persia St, Russia St, Turkey st etc. I suppose it was to honour the country with which they were dealing.

Hi Mike --- yes, it's great when you discover something like that. Often streets were named after the relatives of the landowners or the builders. Particularly in cases where a street has a female christian name - it's sometimes named after the wife, mother or relative of the landowner. Accrington is not my own home town, but the famous Peel family were landowners etc and a lot of streets were named after their relatives. Later when the town started trading with countries abroad - a street would be named after that country - such as Persia St, Russia St, Turkey st etc. I suppose it was to honour the country with which they were dealing. June From: Mike Morris <morrisind@rogers.com> To: June Dowling <june.dowling@yahoo.co.uk>; "lancsgen@rootsweb.com" <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, 3 August 2018, 20:22 Subject: Re: [LAN] Re: Surname distribution Years ago someone on the Manchester list asked about a Windmill street in the Centre of Manchester. On checking old maps we discovered there use to be a Windmill in the mid 1700's at the end of the street on the side of a river/stream. Corn Brook on the border on Hulme and Moss Side was another name . The Brook now runs under Cornbrook street. Mike Morris Toronto Canada

Dear Martin, Mary Lou and Mike, You don't know how much I appreciate your responses. All my life I've wondered about this subject off and on, and, in the last few minutes you've given me more positive stuff to think about than ever before :) Best Wishes, Penny On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Mike Morris <morrisind@rogers.com> wrote: > Hello Penny, > I always hope there is a DNA related first cousin who might post their DNA > in Britain one day soon. This would give me a lead. Every week I am in > touch with more South Asian DNA relatives as they get their DNA tested. > Most are centred around one Caste name KHATRI. The Caste has a number of > family surnames and some of them are duplicated in the people I have been > in contact with. If I get more of one surname then this narrows down my > search and I shall try and track this name down in a couple of areas pry to > 1937 England. I was born in Weston Super Mare, Bristol . That would be the > first place I would check. The Ration book register of 1939 would be a > place I would look. > > Best wishes > > Mike Morris Toronto Canada > > > > ________________________________ > From: Penny Trueman <maudtrueman@gmail.com> > To: Linda Pauwels <linsfam@myfairpoint.net>; lancsgen@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 2:18 PM > Subject: [LAN] Re: Genealogy Advancement Through DNA Test Results > > > > I 'know' the (alleged) nationality of my biological father and I 'know' his > alleged occupation in WW2 (pilot, Polish Airforce). But I don't have a > name. > So I think (really) I am never going to find his family. <snip> > > _______________________________________________ > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. > http://www.genuki.org.uk/ > > Contact the list administrator at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb. > com/listindexes/search/lancsgen > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Unless you're a criminal and don't want the police to track you through your DNA, what's the problem? Sharee On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 8:42 AM, Martin Briscoe (W10 laptop) < list@mbriscoe.me.uk> wrote: > There have been a lot of news stories in the last few days about an > agreement between the main DNA testing companies of privacy but some have > expressed doubts about it. > > There does seem a lot of paranoia about it, there are many more important > privacy issues with data. > > > > Martin Briscoe > Fort William > Ancestry DNA, FTDNA (B68554), GEDMatch (A374507) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Slade Grossl [mailto:sdsladegrossl@cableone.net] > Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 3:15 PM > To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com; 'Mike Morris' <morrisind@rogers.com> > Subject: [LAN] Re: Genealogy Advancement Through DNA Test Results > > I think one thing that is now holding people back is the fact that DNA has > been used to trace down bad guys. I personally don't have a problem with > it, > but imagine there are some out there who would rather not have the DNA > databases looked at that way. > > > _______________________________________________ > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. > http://www.genuki.org.uk/ > > Contact the list administrator at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb. > com/listindexes/search/lancsgen > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Years ago someone on the Manchester list asked about a Windmill street in the Centre of Manchester. On checking old maps we discovered there use to be a Windmill in the mid 1700's at the end of the street on the side of a river/stream. Corn Brook on the border on Hulme and Moss Side was another name . The Brook now runs under Cornbrook street. Mike Morris Toronto Canada ________________________________ From: June Dowling via LANCSGEN <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> To: Lynne <lklein@mindspring.com>; "lancsgen@rootsweb.com" <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> Cc: June Dowling <june.dowling@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 3:08 PM as you say that makes 3 of us interested in surnames anyway!! I also take an interest in old street names and wonder why they were so called -- some are obvious - others not so.<snip>