Many thanks, June. The stonemason obituaries have just revealed two extremely likely but previously unrecorded children of my great-great-grandfather, George Brown of Hulme. Michael Green From: June Dowling via LANCSGEN <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> To: lancsgen <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> CC: June Dowling <june.dowling@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 11:13 Subject: [LAN] Interesting Websites Just thought I would mention a couple of websites -- one which is VERY interesting and another which may be useful for people who have stonemasons in their ancestry. 1. http://www.historyofwomen.org/wifebeating.html Just click into items on the left hand menu -- things like 'Wife Beating', 'Selling a Wife' - 'Divorce' etc. It is a site which demonstrates just how difficult it was for women in the past. 2. https://warwick.ac.uk/services/library/mrc/explorefurther/subject_guides/ family_history/stone/obituaries/ This is a site listing people from the stonemasonry trade who joined one of the original 'Friendly Societies' - hence when they, or any of their family died - there are details in the alphabetical list. I think Warwick University (who owns the site) -- have done other similar Friendly Society Lists - but I haven't investigated those. I hope someone finds these or one of them of interest. Regards June ***************

John That will certainly keep you busy. Looks like there will be some interesting talks about less known genealogical records. Hope it goes well.

Victoria Well I started back in 2001 when the Trust was created and I must admit that these days my own family history seems to be taking a bit of a back seat. Mind the last month hasn't seen a lot of action due to being the administrator for the Secret Lives conference at the end of the month. Regards John Hanson - researching the Halstead/Holstead/Alstead names Researcher, the Halsted Trust, http://www.halstedresearch.org.uk New family history conference in 2018 http://www.secretlives.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: croston.onenamestudy@gmail.com <croston.onenamestudy@gmail.com> Sent: 05 August 2018 21:45 To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Subject: [LAN] Re: New subject: Re: New Subscriber Hi John Many thanks for the information. I have Pearce and Mary's marriage in my database and the extra information is useful- so far I've not got to mining the 1939 register for Croston names. Your website looks fantastic- something I aspire to in the future. How long have you been researching the Halstead/Holstead/Alstead names for? Regards Victoria _______________________________________________ :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. http://www.genuki.org.uk/ Contact the list administrator at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb.com/listindexes/search/lancsgen Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

:) followed you on the guild pages- Lol. What a fantastic way to continue and preserve the research.

How long? That made me chuckle- sorry John, over to you :) On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 9:44 PM, <croston.onenamestudy@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John > > Many thanks for the information. I have Pearce and Mary's marriage in my > database and the extra information is useful- so far I've not got to mining > the 1939 register for Croston names. Your website looks fantastic- > something I aspire to in the future. How long have you been researching the > Halstead/Holstead/Alstead names for? > > Regards > > Victoria > > _______________________________________________ > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. > http://www.genuki.org.uk/ > > Contact the list administrator at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb. > com/listindexes/search/lancsgen > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Hi John Many thanks for the information. I have Pearce and Mary's marriage in my database and the extra information is useful- so far I've not got to mining the 1939 register for Croston names. Your website looks fantastic- something I aspire to in the future. How long have you been researching the Halstead/Holstead/Alstead names for? Regards Victoria

Victoria Welcome to the world of one-name studies and Lancashire There is actually a link in our studies. Pearce CROSTON married Mary ALSTEAD in 1881 in Aspull. http://www.halstedresearch.org.uk/p115.htm#i11491 Regards John Hanson - researching the Halstead/Holstead/Alstead names Researcher, the Halsted Trust, http://www.halstedresearch.org.uk New family history conference in 2018 http://www.secretlives.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: One Name Study Croston <croston.onenamestudy@gmail.com> Sent: 05 August 2018 11:53 To: LANCSGEN@rootsweb.com Subject: [LAN] New Subscriber Hi I live in Bolton and am undertaking a one name study of the surname Croston. This study has been registered with the Guild of One Name Studies and covers the surname wherever it occurs world-wide. I would appreciate any contributions to the ever growing database and will endeavour to help anyone with their enquiries regarding the surname. Best wishes Victoria _______________________________________________ :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. http://www.genuki.org.uk/ Contact the list administrator at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb.com/listindexes/search/lancsgen Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I'd recommend that anyone interested in this subject look at the "People of the British Isles" (POBI) study. It's quite informative and was conducted rigorously; it found many sources of "British DNA". You can find some of the articles on the Internet by Googling it. -rt_/)

I must admit that I did react to the phrase "thousands of falsely imprisoned ..." No. You can make a case for saying "unjustly imprisoned", but not, so far as I know, "falsely" - that would imply it was against the formal rules as decided by the government, or they weren't aliens, etc. Words matter - as I'm sure we all agree as we pour over what it says in the will (say) we're trying to understand! Adrian

Hi I live in Bolton and am undertaking a one name study of the surname Croston. This study has been registered with the Guild of One Name Studies and covers the surname wherever it occurs world-wide. I would appreciate any contributions to the ever growing database and will endeavour to help anyone with their enquiries regarding the surname. Best wishes Victoria

I don't think it is a fair description. The UK was at war and there was a great shortage of resources both physical and manpower. The civil and military police, SB, MI5, FSP were all stretched as they had far more places to protect and thousands of enemy aliens to investigate as potential spies or saboteurs - the Germans had a lot of use of Third Columnists as they occupied the rest of Europe. My interest is radio, a large organisation had been put together to monitor initially for enemy agents operating beacons for bombers then also for them communicating with their masters of the continent - this of course expanded to the whole code breaking operation. It should be remembered that SOE later used many people who had lived or lived in occupied Europe, had dual nationality, were married to foreigners etc. i.e. a similar type of person to those interned in the UK. I am sure at the time if the public were asked if they wanted resources used to house Allied servicemen in reasonable comfort or enemy aliens then they would have said it was more important to provide decent accommodation for our own servicemen. There were sabotage attacks or attempted attacks but they came mainly from Irish republicans working for the Germans and the Irish were never interned! Martin Briscoe Fort William Ancestry DNA, FTDNA (B68554), GEDMatch (A374507) -----Original Message----- From: Lynne [mailto:lklein@mindspring.com] Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 9:49 PM To: Undisclosed recipients: Subject: [LAN] Warth Mills WWII prison camp From The Leader (Wrexham): "The hidden history of horror, brutality and injustice at Warth Mills WWII prison camp

Hi Tom, You've done some great research there. I hope you make good progress. in my family, we've had problems finding the origins of my paternal great grandfather, Robert Ernest Rowley, supposedly born and raised in Manchester from about 1852. He arrived in Melbourne Australia in about 1885. My father did a Y111 DNA test and the results are challenging to say the least. It looks like Robert was a lot more Irish than English, and the Rowley name does not pop up in the right places. It looks like the family name changed at one point. Perhaps my ancestor was adopted, or changed his name to elude others looking for him. The investigation continues. I intend to do the same DNA test soon, which may help the cause, and do another for my mother's side to look at her interesting collection of Scots ancestors. Regards, Colin, Melbourne, Australia On 3 August 2018 at 08:21, T. Wood via LANCSGEN <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Noticing some activity on the list, I thought it may be a good time to > post my recent family history progress. > > As a brief summary, I have been trying to determine the identity of my > grandfather’s father for over 30 years. It was this endeavor that got me > started in genealogy but over all of those years, I was not able to find > anything that would lead me to the answer. So, with all of the excitement > regarding DNA testing, I figured I had nothing to lose by going down this > path to see where it may lead. > > I got my results and initial set of matches in late March, and took a week > or so sending messages to people with the expectation that they would all > respond. Some did, but a large portion of my messages went unanswered. > > I was able to figure out most of the few matches that were categorized as > 2nd or 3rd cousins so I moved on to the fourth cousin category to see what > I could come up with. The fourth match in this category had very little > identifying information that would give me a clue as to who she was or how > she may have been related, except for two things. First was her user name > which was in the form of firstname-secondname-number. Considering that my > user name is ttwood49, I took a guess that the number in her user name was > her year of birth. Second she had two family trees listed with not much to > them except for the two surnames in their titles, one of which was the same > as the second name in her user name. > > Without going into great detail, using FreeBMD, LancashireBMD and Lan-OPC, > I took this information, and in a relatively short period of time found a > name that was quite familiar to me. I knew from the time I got a set of > 1881 census discs from the LDS in the 1990's that there were three young > lads of 20 (the same age as my great grandmother) living either next door > to her or as a boarder in her father’s house. From that point, I always > speculated as to whether one of these could be my great grandfather. The > Critchley family, the same surname that I instantly recognized when doing > my investigation lived next to my Wood family from before the time of the > 1851 census into the 1890’s. > > Knowing that to this point this could all be circumstantial or wishful > thinking, I proceeded to try to make contact with my Ancestry match. After > several attempts over a period of two months and getting to the point of > begging, I had a response. My match confirmed that, yes, one of the son’s > of the family that I traced back was her great grandfather. > > I am quite confident that my great grandfather came from this Critchley > family. The question to still be answered is whether the exact individual > can be determined. It is highly likely it was one of the three Critchley > sons, but there is the possibility that the match came from their mother's > side of the family whose maiden name was Speakman. > > Of the three sons, the most likely candidate would have been Edward who > was the same age as my great grandmother. He died of TB less than two years > after the birth of my grandfather and was never married and I am assuming > that he had no other offspring. Another son was Thomas who was 8 years > older than my great grandmother and never married. At this point I have no > way of knowing if he fathered any children. > > That leaves Robert, the great grandfather of my match. He was a few months > away from his 16th birthday when my great grandmother became pregnant and > is most likely not my great grandfather. In 1911 he was married with 5 > children living on Violet St. in Ashton in Makerfield, the same town where > he was born. His sons were Robert age 19, William age 15 and Percy age 10 > and the two girls were Mary Ann age 18 and Alice Ann age 6. > > I know that William married Angelina Smith in 1919 and Mary Ann may have > married Oswald Topping in 1914. I believe Alice Ann died in 1918 at age 14 > and Robert died in 1928 age 37. I am not certain of what happened to Percy. > He may have died in Newton le Willows in 1959, but I do not know for > certain. > > My objective now is to try to make contact with any living descendants of > Robert’s family for the purpose of trying to get more evidence that may > lead to the precise identity of my great grandfather. So if anyone may > recognize this Critchley family I would be appreciative of any assistance I > could get in locating any living descendants. > Thanks for reading, > Tom > > > > _______________________________________________ > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. > http://www.genuki.org.uk/ > > Contact the list administrator at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb. > com/listindexes/search/lancsgen > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Thank you Martin for the links related to the Bullough family and Kinloch Castle. In 1990 after spending a week in Fort William my family took the Lochmor from Mallaig to Rhum and had the pleasure of staying in Kinloch Castle. Although owned by the Nature Conservancy Council it was operated by Mr. and Mrs. Iain MacArthur. Our 3 day stay was an amazing experience and we were the only ones in residence for those 3 days. We had the run of the whole castle. The velvet cover on our bed was one bought by George Bullough. I was almost afraid to touch it. The dining room in the photos was where we ate breakfasts and dinners. My three children who were between 8 and 13 at the time still talk about the castle and the island almost 30 years later. They particularly remember the 5 mile walk from Kinloch Castle to Kilmory beach, only accessible to the public on Sundays, where they ventured into the not very warm water. My mother was from Accrington so I looked into the Bullough family history at the Accrington library on our return to England. They had an amazing collection of newspaper articles from 1891 to 1988. Thanks for the memories. Jane Hansen Charlottesville, VA

From The Leader (Wrexham): "The hidden history of horror, brutality and injustice at Warth Mills WWII prison camp "HIDDEN away behind the walls of an unsuspecting mill lies a history of horror, brutality and injustice. "Sitting between Bury and Radcliffe on banks of the Irwell, and now an office space, during the Second Word War Warth Mills became home to a notorious internment camp housing thousands of falsely imprisoned Italians and German Jews in deplorable conditions. "The previously untold story, one of Bury and the UK's darkest chapters, is now being brought to life as part of project, with an exhibition which opened on Monday. "As the Nazi strangle hold on Europe tightened and Britain became consumed by the war effort, a paranoid xenophobia permeated the nation. "In the uneasy atmosphere Winston Churchill ordered the internment of all Germans, Italians and Austrians in Britain, telling officials to 'Collar the lot'. "Identified as 'Enemy Aliens' thousands of men including artists, ice cream sellers and factory staff, many of whom had lived across Britain for decades or escaped the Nazi deathcamps, were arbitrarily rounded up and put to tribunals before being sent to camps like Warth Mills...." "Built as cotton mill by Mellor Ltd in 1891, Warth Mills is recorded as having 46,000 spindles and employing 500 staff from Radcliffe and Bury by 1911...." Full story and pictures at <http://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/16309866.Hidden_horrors__brutality_and_injustice_of_Bury_WWII_prison_camp/?ref=ar> or <https://tinyurl.com/ybxerpp5>. Lynne

WOW! John The Genes wrote: > ... my mother is still alive at 103 and still fully marbled up ....

I have really enjoyed reading all the responses about DNA testing. Last night I drove over to the Catholic cemetery and visited my newly found via DNA testing great great grandparents James and Catherine Crane Manning....all on my fathers Mennonite roots side. Now I can laugh even more how older relatives on that side of my family were a bit scornful when I married into a Catholic family (I had sort of thought it safer to mix up the DNA a bit- not gonna lie!)  I would suppose you might say in my small town the Catholics and Mennonites did not look so favorably on mixed marriages! Although my mothers English-Scots- Irish lines are in me this was a huge surprise! It has brought me new lines to research and for a genealogy lover it was a gift!! I have tested another line which we had a road block on- I did a male cousin who carried that surname with a test through FamilyTree DNA for a Y67 marker test- all males in a line apparently keep that marker. We found a few others, found some with different surnames who had been neighbors- so guess they had relations with our line? I think a 37 marker match is another test, maybe less expensive? On 8/3/2018 3:23 PM, Nivard Ovington wrote: > Something I have brought up several times > > There are far more important issues to worry about with dna research > than the police finding a perpetrator of a crime who frankly deserve > to be caught > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 03/08/2018 20:26, Sharee Hughes wrote: >> Unless you're a criminal and don't want the police to track you through >> your DNA, what's the problem? >> >> Sharee > > _______________________________________________ > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. > http://www.genuki.org.uk/ > > Contact the list administrator  at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe and Archives > https://mailinglists.rootsweb.com/listindexes/search/lancsgen > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal > RootsWeb community >

Hi June I've never thought much about street names, but now that you mention them they are interesting and, as you say, no street named Paradise remotely resembles one. Prejudice against the Irish is a whole other topic and one we probably won't get into on this list. My great grandmother was from Ireland (a FARLEY), but I haven't done any research on that line. Kindest regards, Lynne June Dowling wrote: Thank you so much for responding Lynne -- as you say that makes 3 of us interested in surnames anyway!! I also take an interest in old street names and wonder why they were so called -- some are obvious - others not so. I don't know why, but if you ever come across a 'Paradise' St, Lane or whatever -- it looks anything but 'Paradise'. In the town where I live and many moons ago - I can remember people saying about women who looked common, or perhaps scruffy 'She looks like she comes from Back Mary Ann St'. When I started Family History I discovered there WAS a Mary Ann St in the town --- and it was an Irish filled street. This typifies, I think the way the Irish were initially regarded when they came into our towns.(I can say this because my grandmother AND my husband are both Irish!!) June

Well, thank you ???? -- John Lynch > John, I've rarely read a post which both moved me so much and inspired > huge admiration for the poster. Your mum and 'dad' both did a great job in > rearing an individual who is both well-balanced and compassionate, they > must both have been remarkable individuals. The idea of so-called ancestral > memory has, I know, been ridiculed in some quarters but having experienced > this myself I believe it does exist and can, in certain people, manifest itself. > > A Williams

So sorry Adrian -- I hadn't 'reached' your helpful reply to Bob C regarding the pre 1650 Wills, when I replied to him. J. From: Adrian Bruce <abruce6155@gmail.com> To: LancsGen Mailing List <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, 4 August 2018, 11:46 Subject: [LAN] Re: Online Parish Records On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 at 11:16, familyhistory <familyhistory@bccy.org.uk> wrote: ... > > Which could have been his ancestor but I haven't been able to source an > image of the will itself - LDS don't have images from that far back > which rather begs the question of where Durham University have been able > to extract the above information from. ... From URL http://familyrecords.dur.ac.uk/nei/data/images.php#earlywills "The pre-1650 wills and inventories "Note that the pre-1650 original wills and inventories etc (series DPR/I/1) were not digitised by the GSU, as they were still being sorted and numbered at the time. These will not therefore be included in the initial tranche of digital images made available online, though we hope we may be able to have them digitised separately at a later date. They are, however, included within this online catalogue. "The pre-1695 bonds "These are small parchment documents, double-sided (most later bonds are single sided paper documents, though still written in two 'parts'). Most include seals, and for this reason these documents cannot be photocopied without risking damage to the originals. "Because many of these early bonds are badly obscured by dirt, they would require extensive cleaning and conservation work before they could be photographed satisfactorily. For this reason, the pre-1695 probate bonds were not digitised by the GSU, and digital images of them will not be made available on their Family Search website. ... " Adrian

hi Bob C Yes - I see what you mean -- I obtained your Cuthbert's reference from the website and checked on Family Search. They don't go back to 1637 at the moment -- but reading the 'blurb' it seems that there is hope that missing sections will be included in the future. Fingers crossed. I would imagine that Durham University obtained the details from Durham County Record Office -- but I don't know. I have searched their catalogue without result. However to ask them to check and perhaps obtain a copy would be at a cost. So pleased that you obtained some details though -- that's brilliant news. Regards June From: familyhistory <familyhistory@bccy.org.uk> To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, 4 August 2018, 11:16 Subject: [LAN] Re: Online Parish Records June, The Northumberland/Durham one reawakened an interest I had in tracing a Cuthbert Gibson of Burnley who appears to have come from Barningham (near Barnards Castle) around 1700. I hit on this record : -------------- Cuthbert GIBSON, of Hoode in the parish of Midleton in Teasdaile (Midelton in Teasedale, Middleton) [Middleton in Teesdale, County Durham]; also spelt Cuthbart Date of probate: 1637     will, 13 July 1637 (DPR/I/1/1637/G2/1)     indented inventory, actual total £54 10s (with account of debts and funeral expenses of £41), 25 July 1637 (DPR/I/1/1637/G2/2-3)     bond, 1637 (DPR/I/3/1637/B242) ---------------- Which could have been his ancestor but I haven't been able to source an image of the will itself - LDS don't have images from that far back which rather begs the question of where Durham University have been able to extract the above information from. Anyway, many thanks for the link which, if nothing else made me revisit the families and I have been able to supplement some of my Lancashire data with transcriptions done since my original research. BobC