Neil -- a warm welcome from me also. This is just a snippet in case you didn't know. A 'Crofter' -- was a bleacher in the cotton trade. Normally we associate a 'crofter' with someone who owns a little piece of land and grows vegetables etc -- but if you see it as an occupation in Lancashire - it is likely to be a bleacher in the cotton industry. I haven't yet looked at your marriage query - have you tried searching for children by using the father's name and the mother's christian name after the dates of the marriages? That may reveal whether there are 2 couples here, or just one - and the christian name of the bride on one of them was an error. Just a thought. Regards June From: Neil Grantham via LANCSGEN <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> To: "lancsgen@rootsweb.com" <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> Cc: Neil Grantham <neil40@btinternet.com> Sent: Friday, 10 August 2018, 9:48 Subject: [LAN] Re: Lancashire Questions Jim Thanks for the welcome. Looking at the map on 'Oldmaps' I can see now where it is. Unless 'Spring Water' was a large property, there are 25 names (3 families) on the left hand page of the 1841 census all associated to that name. On the right hand page are what looks like Mollineaux and then Rhodes. Seeing the map certainly fits with his profession and subsequent censuses where his is listed as a Bleacher. I can see Bleach works on the map. Can't imagine that was a pleasant living! I've managed to show side by side the 1842 map and 'Google Map' and I see there is an Outwood country park. Regards, Neil

Jim Thanks for the welcome. Looking at the map on 'Oldmaps' I can see now where it is. Unless 'Spring Water' was a large property, there are 25 names (3 families) on the left hand page of the 1841 census all associated to that name. On the right hand page are what looks like Mollineaux and then Rhodes. Seeing the map certainly fits with his profession and subsequent censuses where his is listed as a Bleacher. I can see Bleach works on the map. Can't imagine that was a pleasant living! I've managed to show side by side the 1842 map and 'Google Map' and I see there is an Outwood country park. Regards, Neil ________________________________ From: jim lancaster <lancaster.jim@zen.co.uk> To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 9 August 2018, 23:25 Subject: [LAN] Re: Lancashire Questions Hi, Neil, Welcome to the group. I can't help with your family details, but you are puzzled by a place name “Spring Water, Outwood, Township/Parish of Pilkington”. South-East Lancashire is blessed with a site run by Harry King at https://hking2.sdsu.edu/map_projects/map_projects.htm The site has maps that have been redrawn from the Victorian County History of Lancashire. They are simpler and much clearer than the originals and show the Parish and Township structure of the Hundred of Salford around 1830. I would interpret the address as 'Spring Water' being a house in the hamlet of Outwood in the Township of Pilkington in the Parish of Prestwich-cum-Oldham. To see where this is, have a look at http://www.oldmapsonline.org/ and put Ringley, Lancashire in the search box. You will get an outline modern road map, but at the right hand side there will be a list of maps at different times. I could not see Spring Water on the 1844 map but you quote the 1841 Census - 1841 Census reference H0107 548/46 You may be able tp find the adjacent properties listed in the Census on the map. Hope this helps On 09/08/2018 22:59, Neil Grantham via LANCSGEN wrote: > Dear all > > I have just joined this list. My principle interests in Lancashire and the Manchester/Salford/Warrington areas in particular, are my maternal lines of Barrow and Birchall. _______________________________________________ Be sure mail to the list is in PLAIN TEXT. GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. http://www.genuki.org.uk/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb.com/listindexes/search/lancsgen Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Outwood is just South of Radcliffe. You can see a range of 25" map on the NLS website but the earliest is about 1890. Also 6" maps back to 1850. https://maps.nls.uk/ Martin Briscoe Fort William Ancestry DNA, FTDNA (B68554), GEDMatch (A374507) -----Original Message----- From: Mike Morris [mailto:morrisind@rogers.com] Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:54 AM To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Subject: [LAN] Re: Lancashire Questions Ringley is a short distance south of Little Lever. Little Lever is just to the east of Bolton. I could not find any mention of Outwood or Spring Water in my 1894 map. But a Google search says Outwood and Pilkington are in the Ringley area. Mike Morris Toronto Canada

Ringley is a short distance south of Little Lever. Little Lever is just to the east of Bolton. I could not find any mention of Outwood or Spring Water in my 1894 map. But a Google search says Outwood and Pilkington are in the Ringley area. Mike Morris  Toronto Canada From: Mary Lou via LANCSGEN <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> To: neil40@btinternet.com; lancsgen@rootsweb.com Cc: Mary Lou <mlou1173@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 7:38 PM Hi Neil.......Genuki is your friend when interested in places: <snip>

Hi Neil.......Genuki is your friend when interested in places: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Pilkington mary lou sun valley, id USA -----Original Message----- From: Neil Grantham via LANCSGEN <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> To: lancsgen <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> Cc: Neil Grantham <neil40@btinternet.com> Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2018 4:00 pm Subject: [LAN] Lancashire Questions Dear all I have just joined this list. My principle interests in Lancashire and the Manchester/Salford/Warrington areas in particular, are my maternal lines of Barrow and Birchall. The Barrow line is mainly in the Salford area, and Birchall in the Warrington area. My 2 x Great Grandfather, Joseph Barrow (of Bolton) married Mary Beddows (of Horwich) in Manchester Cathedral in 1843. I have found Mary Beddows, daughter of Thomas Beddows and Betty Turner on the 1841 Census reference H0107 548/46 at a place called "Spring Water, Outwood, Township/Parish of Pilkington. FamilySearch.org states this as "Oldham cum Prestwich" I am having difficulty locating this on a map. Can anyone help with this? Stepping back, I can find the marriage of Thomas Beddows to Betty Turner on the Lancashire OPC website ( www.lan-opc.org.uk) but I am confused by an entry a couple of months earlier. Here are the two entries: Marriage: 1 Dec 1822 St Mary the Virgin, Deane, Lancashire, England Thomas Beddows - (X), Crofter, this Parish [Deane] Nancy Turner - X, Spinster, this Parish [Deane] Witness: Abrm. Boardman; John Beddows, (X) Married by Banns by: Thos. Brocklebank, Vicar Register: Marriages 1818 - 1824, Page 198, Entry 592 Source: Manchester Archives microfilm L85/1/3/4 Marriage: 23 Feb 1823 St Mary the Virgin, Deane, Lancashire, England Thomas Beddows - (X), Crofter, this Parish [Deane] Betty Turner - X, Spinster, this Parish [Deane] Witness: Abrm. Boardman; William Beddows Married by Banns by: Thos. Brocklebank, Vicar Register: Marriages 1818 - 1824, Page 213, Entry 637 Source: Manchester Archives microfilm L85/1/3/4 On the face of it, could it be the same Thomas Beddows? Both spouses have the surname Turner I'd welcome any speculation on these. Regards, Neil _______________________________________________ Be sure mail to the list is in PLAIN TEXT. GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. http://www.genuki.org.uk/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb.com/listindexes/search/lancsgen Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

From The Guardian: "The forgotten voices of Lancashire’s poverty-stricken cotton workers during the US civil war have been heard for the first time in 150 years, after researchers at the University of Exeter unearthed a treasure trove of poetry. "Up to 400,000 of the county’s cotton workers were left unemployed when the war stopped cotton from reaching England’s north-west in the 1860s and the mills were closed. Without work, they struggled to put food on the table, and experts from the University of Exeter have discovered that many of them turned to poetry to describe the impact of the cotton famine. "Written between 1861 and 1865, many of the poems are by the workers most affected by the famine. Around a quarter of the 300 poems discovered so far are written in the Lancashire dialect, with some published in local newspapers or simply sent in letters. All the poems were held in local archives and had never been studied or collected...." "Rennie and his team have created a publicly accessible database [<http://cottonfaminepoetry.exeter.ac.uk/>] of the poems, along with 100 recordings of them being read. 'We are trying simply to show they can be heard as well as read,' said Rennie’s colleague Ruth Mather. 'The Lancashire dialect pieces in particular are fiendishly difficult to recite, and we are aware that pronunciation of many terms may be contentious. But we hope we are bringing alive an important part of Lancashire cultural history that has lain relatively dormant for more than 150 years.'” For the full story, see <https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/aug/09/mill-workers-poems-about-1860s-cotton-famine-rediscovered> or <https://tinyurl.com/ycejmwhn> Lynne

Hi, Neil, Welcome to the group. I can't help with your family details, but you are puzzled by a place name “Spring Water, Outwood, Township/Parish of Pilkington”. South-East Lancashire is blessed with a site run by Harry King at https://hking2.sdsu.edu/map_projects/map_projects.htm The site has maps that have been redrawn from the Victorian County History of Lancashire. They are simpler and much clearer than the originals and show the Parish and Township structure of the Hundred of Salford around 1830. I would interpret the address as 'Spring Water' being a house in the hamlet of Outwood in the Township of Pilkington in the Parish of Prestwich-cum-Oldham. To see where this is, have a look at http://www.oldmapsonline.org/ and put Ringley, Lancashire in the search box. You will get an outline modern road map, but at the right hand side there will be a list of maps at different times. I could not see Spring Water on the 1844 map but you quote the 1841 Census - 1841 Census reference H0107 548/46 You may be able tp find the adjacent properties listed in the Census on the map. Hope this helps On 09/08/2018 22:59, Neil Grantham via LANCSGEN wrote: > Dear all > > I have just joined this list. My principle interests in Lancashire and the Manchester/Salford/Warrington areas in particular, are my maternal lines of Barrow and Birchall.

Dear all I have just joined this list. My principle interests in Lancashire and the Manchester/Salford/Warrington areas in particular, are my maternal lines of Barrow and Birchall. The Barrow line is mainly in the Salford area, and Birchall in the Warrington area. My 2 x Great Grandfather, Joseph Barrow (of Bolton) married Mary Beddows (of Horwich) in Manchester Cathedral in 1843. I have found Mary Beddows, daughter of Thomas Beddows and Betty Turner on the 1841 Census reference H0107 548/46 at a place called "Spring Water, Outwood, Township/Parish of Pilkington. FamilySearch.org states this as "Oldham cum Prestwich" I am having difficulty locating this on a map. Can anyone help with this? Stepping back, I can find the marriage of Thomas Beddows to Betty Turner on the Lancashire OPC website ( www.lan-opc.org.uk) but I am confused by an entry a couple of months earlier. Here are the two entries: Marriage: 1 Dec 1822 St Mary the Virgin, Deane, Lancashire, England Thomas Beddows - (X), Crofter, this Parish [Deane] Nancy Turner - X, Spinster, this Parish [Deane] Witness: Abrm. Boardman; John Beddows, (X) Married by Banns by: Thos. Brocklebank, Vicar Register: Marriages 1818 - 1824, Page 198, Entry 592 Source: Manchester Archives microfilm L85/1/3/4 Marriage: 23 Feb 1823 St Mary the Virgin, Deane, Lancashire, England Thomas Beddows - (X), Crofter, this Parish [Deane] Betty Turner - X, Spinster, this Parish [Deane] Witness: Abrm. Boardman; William Beddows Married by Banns by: Thos. Brocklebank, Vicar Register: Marriages 1818 - 1824, Page 213, Entry 637 Source: Manchester Archives microfilm L85/1/3/4 On the face of it, could it be the same Thomas Beddows? Both spouses have the surname Turner I'd welcome any speculation on these. Regards, Neil

From Bolton Library and Museum Services: Celebrate Heritage Open Days at Bolton’s Historic Halls Hall i’ th’ Wood Museum, Saturday 8 September Join us for a tour of this beautiful building! The tour will include a rare chance to view the attic space where Samuel Crompton allegedly hid the spinning mule during an outbreak of machine-breaking in the late 1700s. The museum is open from 12pm to 4pm and the free tours will take place at 12.15pm, 1pm, 2pm and 2.45pm. Smithills Hall, Sunday 9 September Discover more about Smithills Hall with a tour of this fantastic building. See http://www.boltonlams.co.uk/whats-on/ for more more events. Smithills Hall opened to the public as a museum in 1963 but its history dates back to the 14th century. Today, much of the Hall has been restored to its original splendour and you can see rooms and displays from across the centuries. You can stand in the same room where Bolton Protestant Preacher, George Marsh, was interrogated by the owner of the estate, Robert Barton. Marsh was later burned at the stake because of his faith. Legend has it that as George Marsh was being led from the Hall he stamped his foot on the flagstone, leaving a mark that has remained there ever since as a declaration of his steadfast faith. The hall is open from 12pm to 4pm and the free tours will take place at 12:30pm, 1.30pm and 2.30pm.

Hello Jim, The information about Ian is very interesting, I know nothing more about him and being a soft southerner I suppose that is not unusual. I have just looked at the blog you mentioned and it seems that he was a remarkable man. I thought my mania for collecting local information was high but it pales into insignificance in comparison. Regards Rod (in a still pretty warm Hampshire.) --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Sorry to hear about Ian's death. Good to know he donated his workto the library. It sounds like a fascinating and extremely useful collection. Thanks so much for telling us about it, Jim. Kind regards, Lynne jim lancaster <lancaster.jim@zen.co.uk> wrote: > >Hi, Folks, > >I have just been pointed to an interesting article in the Chetham >Library blog (http://library.chethams.com/blog/the-pringle-collection/ >).lan > <snip> > >Hope this helps, > >Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.)

Hi, Folks, I have just been pointed to an interesting article in the Chetham Library blog (http://library.chethams.com/blog/the-pringle-collection/ ).lan It tells of the Library's acquisition of the collection of Ian Pringle. Ian was a local historian in the Prestwich area who died recently. He had built up a massive collection of material about the area. The blog is an account of some of the items that are to be found in the collection, photos of the Heaton Hall and Philips Hall and other grand from Victorian times, details from the Home Guard, information about the various churches and religious communities, details of graveyards including some Jewish graveyards, and much, much more. Hope this helps, Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.)

Lynne wrote earlier, "Know of any other free resources, even if just temporarily free? Please post them." For those without an Ancestry UK subscription the UK WW1 records are also free till Thursday. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/cs/free-access?o_iid=91107&o_lid=91107&o_sch=Web+Property As I have a UK sub I don't get notification of UK offers, but a friend usually lets me know so that I can pass the information on. Beth.

From Ancestry: "Find out where your family fought, the experiences they had and the places they had them. "Explore your family's WWI story with free access to exclusive Fold3 Commonwealth military collections. Free until 9 August. "Access to the records on Fold3 will be free until 9 August 2018 at 23:59 GMT. After the free access period ends, you will be only able to view the records in the collections using an Ancestry All Access or Fold3 paid membership." Know of any other free resources, even if just temporarily free? Please post them. Lynne

Hi Ian Many thanks! Great minds think alike- I have considered at some stage in the future of taking it into a one place study. So I’ll get in touch at some stage in the near future to arrange re photographs. Best wishes Victoria

My Grandfather, George HELSBY, was born in Knotty Ash in 1888 - his parents were Thomas HELSBY who married Elizabeth ARNOLD. Thomas was the son of Robert HELSBY and Alice HUNTER George married my Grandmother, Ellen HARRISON in 1912 - would love to hear from any other HELSBY /ARNOLD/HUNTER researchers! Dot Menzies Holden0

Ian, Many of my ancestors came from both the Croston and Tarleton areas -- I would be very interested in the Croston Poor Law records. When you have time would you mind contacting me off the list perhaps and advising me how I can purchase copies please. Many thanks June From: Ian White <ian.white4@live.co.uk> To: "croston.onenamestudy@gmail.com" <croston.onenamestudy@gmail.com>; "lancsgen@rootsweb.com" <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, 6 August 2018, 15:17 Subject: [LAN] Croston Village Hi Victoria, Should your interest veer towards Croston as a one-nameplace, I have Croston St Michael Parish registers 1685-1690, Newspaper Reports 1820-1863 and Poor Law Records for the Croston Parish Areas, originally compiled by Brenda Barker who has now emigrated to Canada and who asked me to make these available to anyone who might be interested. Comes with the price of photographing I'm afraid. Best wishes for your project. Ian White 01772 816841 The ARNISON, GLOAG and MINGINS _______________________________________________ :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information.  http://www.genuki.org.uk/ Contact the list administrator  at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb.com/listindexes/search/lancsgen Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

This is great news Michael -- I am really pleased. Thank you for the feedback. Regards June From: Michael Green <michael.green@fountainhead.org.uk> To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, 6 August 2018, 8:41 Subject: [LAN] Re: LANCSGEN Digest, Vol 13, Issue 142 Many thanks, June. The stonemason obituaries have just revealed two extremely likely but previously unrecorded children of my great-great-grandfather, George Brown of Hulme. Michael Green From: June Dowling via LANCSGEN <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> To: lancsgen <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> CC: June Dowling <june.dowling@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 11:13 Subject: [LAN] Interesting Websites Just thought I would mention a couple of websites -- one which is VERY interesting and another which may be useful for people who have stonemasons in their ancestry. 1. http://www.historyofwomen.org/wifebeating.html Just click into items on the left hand menu -- things like 'Wife Beating', 'Selling a Wife' - 'Divorce' etc. It is a site which demonstrates just how difficult it was for women in the past. 2. https://warwick.ac.uk/services/library/mrc/explorefurther/subject_guides/ family_history/stone/obituaries/ This is a site listing people from the stonemasonry trade who joined one of the original 'Friendly Societies' - hence when they, or any of their family died - there are details in the alphabetical list. I think Warwick University (who owns the site) -- have done other similar Friendly Society Lists - but I haven't investigated those. I hope someone finds these or one of them of interest. Regards June *************** _______________________________________________ :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information.  http://www.genuki.org.uk/ Contact the list administrator  at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb.com/listindexes/search/lancsgen Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hi Victoria, Should your interest veer towards Croston as a one-nameplace, I have Croston St Michael Parish registers 1685-1690, Newspaper Reports 1820-1863 and Poor Law Records for the Croston Parish Areas, originally compiled by Brenda Barker who has now emigrated to Canada and who asked me to make these available to anyone who might be interested. Comes with the price of photographing I'm afraid. Best wishes for your project. Ian White 01772 816841 The ARNISON, GLOAG and MINGINS

Many thanks Lynne- very useful for my one name study :) Victoria