This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: brianhewitt2 Surnames: Gregson Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/52570/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Require information on Elizabeth Gregson b.1889 Stanton Staffs known to have moved to Lancashire around 1920-1930,Pre that time she had been employed as a maid/servant.Would like to know if she married,who she married,were there any children,when she passed away and where she is buried,any help whatever will be gratefully appreciated. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

Hi Pauline What you say is true in theory (ie you can't be baptised twice) However when ever humans are involved there is scope for them to make a cock up of it If a person, later in life, was unsure if they were baptised, they might have a conditional baptism But I have at least two where the child was baptised twice, and several others where that may have been the case In one case the child was baptised as an infant and again as an 8 year old along with her younger siblings (none of which appear to have been baptised before) after their mother died, the other in a Wesleyan chapel, and the following year in a C of E church elsewhere, the same church used for all life events thereafter Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 10/12/2013 16:27, phodkinson@aol.com wrote: > > If the baby was baptised privately, it would have P in the margin. When the baby was 'received' into the church, it would have R in the margin. > A baby cannot be baptised twice so the first one would be the baptism and the second one would be when the child was brought to church. > > Pauline in Darwen

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: whitesfan1930 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/52569.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi David Re Ann (Anne) age 38 Marriage to Abraham Ashcroft age 37 collier at St George Church Wigan 1901 Abraham Ashcroft age 37 Widower, Ann Gray age 38 Widow Grooms father Abarham Ashcroft Stone Mason Brides father Thomas Melling collier Both families living in a district of Whelley Wigan Area ( not known to me) This first marriage of Ann Gray must have been Melling not Gray regards Jim Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

<<snipped>> If Margaret was not expected to live, it is likely that she was baptised privately on the day she was born. However, I wonder why she would be baptised a second time? <<snipped> Normally the case is that the child is baptised privately and then (if they survive) goes to church to be "received" / "admitted" into the church before the full congregation. Theologically, it was _not_ a case of a second baptism - rather the later ceremony covered the bits of the full service that weren't in a simple private baptism, which, often of necessity, was very much abbreviated. Adrian B

Hi Vern You can't be baptised more than once (in theory) After a private baptism and if the infant survived, later the child would be received into the Church, which is the other part of a baptism that usually occurs at the same time as the first part, in Church Recording can be haphazard and depended much on the clerk Some entered both the private baptism and the receiving with no notation to show the difference, others just the private part, other still just the receiving So I would say the earlier event is the recording of the private baptism, the other being the receiving into the Church However I do have several situations where it appears the child was baptised twice, sometimes years apart Check the actual entry in the register to see if there are any further notes Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 10/12/2013 16:23, Vern Prescott wrote: > Thanks Antony, Nivard and Linda > > I never thought of Private, but I did expect the child was not expected to > live. > > Here is the situation: Edward and Jane PRESCOTT had a daughter named > Margaret. The 1881 Census shows them living in Cross Lane, Halsall. > Margaret is 1 month old. In 1891 they live in Southport. > > There is a baptism at St Paul's, Southport which appears to be Margaret: > Lancashire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911 > Name: Margaret Prescott > Birth Date: 19 Feb 1881 > Baptism Date: 1 May 1881 > Parish: Southport, St Paul > Father: Edward Prescott > Mother: Jane Prescott > Reference Number: Pr 3368/1/1

This usually means private ie they weren't expected to live and so it was performed at the bedside. If they survived they would normally have had the full service at a later date in church Lin Lin http://familyrootsandbranches.tribalpages.com/ On 10 December 2013 15:48, Vern Prescott <vprescott@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi All > > I have just seen a few baptisms recorded with a P in the margin beside the > date. Can anyone on the list please tell me what this might mean? > > Vern in Ontario > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No > fees! > > The list's administrator can be contacted at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LANCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Vern Depending on time frame and circumstance but usually for Private baptism ie child not expected to live or the parents wanted the extra status At certain times it could also denote Pauper, which were exempt from burial taxes Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 10/12/2013 15:48, Vern Prescott wrote: > Hi All > > I have just seen a few baptisms recorded with a P in the margin beside the > date. Can anyone on the list please tell me what this might mean? > > Vern in Ontario

Often it means Private. A private baptism may have taken place if the child was not likely to survive. Just a thought Antony On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 15:48:06 -0000, Vern Prescott <vprescott@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi All > > I have just seen a few baptisms recorded with a P in the margin beside > the > date. Can anyone on the list please tell me what this might mean? > > Vern in Ontario > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No > fees! > > The list's administrator can be contacted at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LANCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Thanks Nivard, I accept that mistakes are made. I, too have ancestors who were baptised twice, once on their own and once with siblings. I suppose rules were made to be broken. Pauline

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: dollybird1199 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/52569.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Jim, thank you for your reply. I think we have communicated previously. Your information is quite helpful in that it confirms the wedding and also adds Frederick's parents. I'm hoping that I will find out more about James' Gray's father Edward. Thanks again. David Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

In a Catholic registry you might read "Ceremonies Supplied" or something like that. The Sacrament of Baptism is never done twice. Mary Finley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Bruce" <abruce@madasafish.com> To: <lancsgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [LAN] P marked beside baptism > <<snipped>> > If Margaret was not expected to live, it is likely that she was baptised > privately on the day she was born. However, I wonder why she would be > baptised a second time? > <<snipped> > > Normally the case is that the child is baptised privately and then (if > they > survive) goes to church to be "received" / "admitted" into the church > before > the full congregation. Theologically, it was _not_ a case of a second > baptism - rather the later ceremony covered the bits of the full service > that weren't in a simple private baptism, which, often of necessity, was > very much abbreviated. > > Adrian B > > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No > fees! > > The list's administrator can be contacted at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LANCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: whitesfan1930 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/52569.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Dollybird Mary Ellen Gray married age 20, Frederick Arthur Lown age 20 at St Wilfred's church Standish Wigan 1898 Spouse occupation Joiner Grooms father John Robert Lown ,certified Teacher Brides father James Gray occupation Gardener witness's James Gray, Annie Gray , William Healey Lown, Regards Jim Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

Thanks, Pauline I just checked the second one and there is no R in the margin. However, I am confident that this is the same child. Vern On 10 December 2013 11:31, <phodkinson@aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > Sorry Vern, that wasn't very clear, the first baptism would have been > marked P and the second 'baptism' would be when the baby was 'received' > into the church. > Sometimes this would have the letter R in the margin. > Good Luck, > Pauline in Darwen > > > > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No > fees! > > The list's administrator can be contacted at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LANCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Sorry Vern, that wasn't very clear, the first baptism would have been marked P and the second 'baptism' would be when the baby was 'received' into the church. Sometimes this would have the letter R in the margin. Good Luck, Pauline in Darwen

If the baby was baptised privately, it would have P in the margin. When the baby was 'received' into the church, it would have R in the margin. A baby cannot be baptised twice so the first one would be the baptism and the second one would be when the child was brought to church. Pauline in Darwen

Thanks Antony, Nivard and Linda I never thought of Private, but I did expect the child was not expected to live. Here is the situation: Edward and Jane PRESCOTT had a daughter named Margaret. The 1881 Census shows them living in Cross Lane, Halsall. Margaret is 1 month old. In 1891 they live in Southport. There is a baptism at St Paul's, Southport which appears to be Margaret: Lancashire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911 Name: Margaret Prescott Birth Date: 19 Feb 1881 Baptism Date: 1 May 1881 Parish: Southport, St Paul Father: Edward Prescott Mother: Jane Prescott Reference Number: Pr 3368/1/1 However, there is also a baptism at St Cuthbert, Halsall, dated 19 Feb and marked P Lancashire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911 Name: Margaret Prescott Baptism Date: 19 Feb 1881 Parish: Halsall, St Cuthbert Father: Edward Prescott Mother: Jane Prescott Reference Number: Pr 3377/1/2 I believe these are two baptisms for the same child. If Margaret was not expected to live, it is likely that she was baptised privately on the day she was born. However, I wonder why she would be baptised a second time? Vern in Ontario On 10 December 2013 11:02, Linda Chapman <genealogistatwork@gmail.com>wrote: > This usually means private ie they weren't expected to live and so it was > performed at the bedside. If they survived they would normally have had the > full service at a later date in church > > Lin > > Lin > > http://familyrootsandbranches.tribalpages.com/ > > > On 10 December 2013 15:48, Vern Prescott <vprescott@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi All > > > > I have just seen a few baptisms recorded with a P in the margin beside > the > > date. Can anyone on the list please tell me what this might mean? > > > > Vern in Ontario > > > > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No > > fees! > > > > The list's administrator can be contacted at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > LANCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No > fees! > > The list's administrator can be contacted at LancsGen-admin@rootsweb.com > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LANCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi All I have just seen a few baptisms recorded with a P in the margin beside the date. Can anyone on the list please tell me what this might mean? Vern in Ontario

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: dollybird1199 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/52569/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I am researching the GRAY family from Standish, Wigan c. 1850's. James GRAY dob c. 1850 is my gt grandfather. Mary Ellen GRAY, dob 1878, married into the LOWN family in 1898 and Ann GRAY, dob 1880, I believe married Abraham Ashcroft in 1901.. However I cannot go further back than James GRAY. At his wedding to Jane Wellman on 23 Mar 1871 he gave his father as Edward GRAY, agriculltural labourer, deceased. However, I cannot find any records of this particular Edward. There may be a link with Dorset as that is where Jane Wellman lived. Any help or clues would be greatly appreciated. I am David Gray, now 66, living near Oxford. I can also be contacted via email on; dolly.bird1@virgin.net. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: rwherrmann Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/500.2.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I am researching this family, too. Although there are many 'hints' for Thomas Gorton (1501-1591), I cannot find documentation of his birth/parentage. Do you have any documentation? Thanks. Rosemarie Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: TBERRY1972 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/52566.3.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Shelagh, Thanks for your reply. I havent got a 1911 census for Thomas, but I have found one for Sarah Jane Berry, with some children, James, Thomas and Maggie (Margaret). They are living at 8 Longworth Cottages, Sharples, Bolton. Dont know where her Husband is living, but she is listed as married, not widow, so he must still be alive. There are other census docs missing, I assume that as the children were all born in different areas, they moved about a lot, and may have possibly been missed off them. Just a theory. lol I am intreagued though as to the 1911 you have found, could you give me an idea of where they are living, or email me a copy? Also about the twins bit you have found, My email address is berry_thomas@sky.com Kind regards, Tom. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>