Hi Penny Am quite taken with that suggestion because other grooms on the same page are all weavers. Thank you for your response. KRs Peter From: Penny Trueman Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 10:43 AM To: Ruth ; [email protected] Cc: Peter Knott Subject: Re: [LAN] BUTTERWORTH/CURROW Marriage at Bolton Dear Peter, could it be a corruption of Shearman/Sherman? See: - http://www.rmhh.co.uk/occup/s.html However I agree with Ruth that the initial letter IS slightly different to the other 'S's in the page. Best Wishes, Penny

Hello Ruth Yes I had noticed that the initial S was not quite the same as other S's. All other groom occupations on the same page are 'Weaver' and I fancy that JB's employment was also to do with sheep/wool/weaving etc but what exactly remains a mystery for the moment. Thank you for your input. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Ruth Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 10:21 AM To: 'Peter Knott' ; [email protected] Subject: RE: [LAN] BUTTERWORTH/CURROW Marriage at Bolton Hi Peter I agree with your view that it says "Shoir" although the initial S is written slightly differently to that at the start of a name in an earlier entry, and also "Spinster". Google doesn't help at all. The only thing I can think of is that either John or the clerk were "not from around here" and the clerk misheard. I've tried saying it out loud, which usually helps, and the only thing I could come up with was "Shire" said by an Irish person..... Not much help I'm afraid. Could he be a Chair Man (i.e. sedan chair)??? Do let us know when you find out.... Ruth

In regards to the replies sent to me and to the List on the subject "The Follies of our Greats/Great Greats/Great Great Greats/ etc., may I just say THANK YOU to everyone. Always good to discuss different viewpoints even though we may not always agree; it's still good to hear different opinions ! I love this List. Barb, Ontario, Canada. >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- From: Barb Ontario Canada via Throughout the 1800's/1900's in Cumberland and Lancashire I have been involved with transcribing news articles about the area where my Great & GreatGreat Grandparents lived, and their marriages & family lives during those times; through to the present events in the 2000's. The one subject that kept jumping out at me is what we now call spousal abuse. When I first read the 1800/1900 reports of spousal abuse in either County I was just abhorred to say the least. BUT SHOULD WE BLAME THOSE who were living through "the times ?" I don't think so. The above has continued on into the 2000's until this day. My Mom was the exception, but all of her four brothers came from England to Canada with problems with the booze, and it continued on right through until they passed away. Probably a male thing ; if one reads the statistics and studies which are published today. My Mom did not abuse alcohol; enjoyed a Gin Fizz on occasion, and usually and ONLY when my late hubby mixed one for her; at the end of the day/evening, there would be about an inch of mix left in her glass. I always wondered " The WHY " question when doing research in the area around Worcestershire in the 1800's; Suddenly had a brain alert !........there were pubs at every corner of each village; in fact....pubs at every 1/2 corner of each village. The children were not always left in the horse and cart; most times they accompanied their parents (usually the Father) into the pubs. Some children worked in the mines (depending where they lived) and a "pint" was the normal liquid) etc. and so on. The statistics in the family history weren't any different in Lancashire or Cumberland or Worcestershire; alcoholism was rampant simply because ale was an accepted part of having lunch (or no lunch). I decided long ago...............DON'T BLAME THE ANCESTOR .......................blame the custom of the day.<<<<<<

I haven't looked at the entry but a wild guess might be "Soil" man meaning night soil man (sanitation). Eric Millward ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6140 / Virus Database: 4419/10736 - Release Date: 10/01/15

Another thought - make sure you are actually looking at house numbers and not enumeration numbers... Ruth

Hi Peter, There are baptism’s for a John a Shearman on Lancashire Online Parish Clerks. Mary Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: June Dowling via Sent: 01 October 2015 11:28 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LAN] BUTTERWORTH/CURROW Marriage at Bolton Peter -- have you found baptisms of this couple's children? Is his occupation shown on those? June      From: Peter Knott via <[email protected]>  To: [email protected]  Sent: Thursday, 1 October 2015, 9:59  Subject: [LAN] BUTTERWORTH/CURROW Marriage at Bolton    Good Morning Listers Would SKS take a look at the above marriage PR entry at Bolton le Moors St Peter on 21 May 1761 please. The image is available within Manchester marriages on ancestry. I am unable to decipher the occupation of John BUTTERWORTH - it looks like Shoir Man, but what does that mean? The only definition of 'shoir' that I can find is that it is an obsolete version of 'shore' but does that make sense in the Bolton locality? Any other suggestions would be welcome. Many thanks Peter Knott     :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list.  No fees!  The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message       :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list.  No fees!  The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Peter, I had a look at other pages on that register and a couple of pages back from there is something very similar and unless I am mistaken it says Soldier? Why man? unless its Soldier, Manchester Mary Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > Would SKS take a look at the above marriage PR entry at Bolton le Moors St > Peter on 21 May 1761 please. The image is available within Manchester > marriages on ancestry. I am unable to decipher the occupation of John > BUTTERWORTH - it looks like Shoir Man, but what does that mean? The only > definition of 'shoir' that I can find is that it is an obsolete version of > 'shore' but does that make sense in the Bolton locality? > > Any other suggestions would be welcome. > > Many thanks > Peter Knott > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list.  No > fees! > > > The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list.  No > fees! > > The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >     :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list.  No fees!  The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Carole, A quick answer would be - both! Most people at the time lived in rented accommodation and had little in the way of goods, so moving was a regular occurrence and - unless fleeing a bad debt or similar - was usually to another address in the same area, even the same street. Reasons for the move could be as trivial as a row with the next door neighbour or as serious as loss of employment and so needing a cheaper rent. My grandfather was famous [well, in our family] for moving every couple of years - he'd look up, say, "this place needs a drop of paint - time to go," and off they'd go! There was also a great deal of building and rebuilding of houses in certain areas and consequently streets grew and shrank - and so were re-numbered as necessary. Dave Swarbrick On 1 October 2015 at 11:07, Carole Edwards Caruso via <[email protected] > wrote: > I notice in the censuses that people often lived on the same street, but > the numerical address would change from census to census. > > For instance, in 1901, the address was 484 Oldham Road. In 1911, it was > 440 Oldham Road. > > I assume these were terrace houses. > > Did the family actually move from residence to residence within the > terrace? If so, why? Or was the numerical address changed from time to > time? If the latter, why? > > Thanks for thoughts on this. > > Carole > > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No > fees! > > The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Carole People moved a lot as their needs changed, more children or less children, or their means changed so a cheaper place to rent was needed Or as you say the house numbers may have changed, either a new road, or houses between others, and at times for post & local organisation etc Remember the census is a snap shot of one day or night every ten years Check the neighbours to see if they are the same in subsequent census, or birth marriage or death events between the census You are using the house number, and not the schedule number I presume? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 01/10/2015 11:07, Carole Edwards Caruso via wrote: > I notice in the censuses that people often lived on the same street, but > the numerical address would change from census to census. > > For instance, in 1901, the address was 484 Oldham Road. In 1911, it was > 440 Oldham Road. > > I assume these were terrace houses. > > Did the family actually move from residence to residence within the > terrace? If so, why? Or was the numerical address changed from time to > time? If the latter, why? > > Thanks for thoughts on this. > > Carole

Really? I hadn’t heard of that one….. Ruth From: Penny Trueman [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 01 October 2015 10:46 To: Ruth; [email protected] Cc: Peter Knott Subject: Re: [LAN] BUTTERWORTH/CURROW Marriage at Bolton By the way Ruth, a 'Chair man' was often a worker in an undertaker's. Penny

By the way Ruth, a 'Chair man' was often a worker in an undertaker's. Penny On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Penny Trueman <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Peter, could it be a corruption of Shearman/Sherman? See: - > > http://www.rmhh.co.uk/occup/s.html > However I agree with Ruth that the initial letter IS slightly different to > the other 'S's in the page. > Best Wishes, Penny > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Ruth via <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Peter >> >> I agree with your view that it says "Shoir" although the initial S is >> written slightly differently to that at the start of a name in an earlier >> entry, and also "Spinster". Google doesn't help at all. The only thing >> I >> can think of is that either John or the clerk were "not from around here" >> and the clerk misheard. I've tried saying it out loud, which usually >> helps, >> and the only thing I could come up with was "Shire" said by an Irish >> person..... Not much help I'm afraid. Could he be a Chair Man (i.e. sedan >> chair)??? >> Do let us know when you find out.... >> >> Ruth >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected] >> ] >> On Behalf Of Peter Knott via >> Sent: 01 October 2015 10:00 >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [LAN] BUTTERWORTH/CURROW Marriage at Bolton >> >> Good Morning Listers >> >> Would SKS take a look at the above marriage PR entry at Bolton le Moors St >> Peter on 21 May 1761 please. The image is available within Manchester >> marriages on ancestry. I am unable to decipher the occupation of John >> BUTTERWORTH - it looks like Shoir Man, but what does that mean? The only >> definition of 'shoir' that I can find is that it is an obsolete version of >> 'shore' but does that make sense in the Bolton locality? >> >> Any other suggestions would be welcome. >> >> Many thanks >> Peter Knott >> >> >> >> >> :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: >> >> Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No >> fees! >> >> >> The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] >> >> :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: >> >> Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No >> fees! >> >> The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] >> >> :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >

Dear Peter, could it be a corruption of Shearman/Sherman? See: - http://www.rmhh.co.uk/occup/s.html However I agree with Ruth that the initial letter IS slightly different to the other 'S's in the page. Best Wishes, Penny On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Ruth via <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Peter > > I agree with your view that it says "Shoir" although the initial S is > written slightly differently to that at the start of a name in an earlier > entry, and also "Spinster". Google doesn't help at all. The only thing I > can think of is that either John or the clerk were "not from around here" > and the clerk misheard. I've tried saying it out loud, which usually > helps, > and the only thing I could come up with was "Shire" said by an Irish > person..... Not much help I'm afraid. Could he be a Chair Man (i.e. sedan > chair)??? > Do let us know when you find out.... > > Ruth > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Peter Knott via > Sent: 01 October 2015 10:00 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [LAN] BUTTERWORTH/CURROW Marriage at Bolton > > Good Morning Listers > > Would SKS take a look at the above marriage PR entry at Bolton le Moors St > Peter on 21 May 1761 please. The image is available within Manchester > marriages on ancestry. I am unable to decipher the occupation of John > BUTTERWORTH - it looks like Shoir Man, but what does that mean? The only > definition of 'shoir' that I can find is that it is an obsolete version of > 'shore' but does that make sense in the Bolton locality? > > Any other suggestions would be welcome. > > Many thanks > Peter Knott > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No > fees! > > > The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No > fees! > > The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Peter -- have you found baptisms of this couple's children? Is his occupation shown on those? June From: Peter Knott via <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, 1 October 2015, 9:59 Subject: [LAN] BUTTERWORTH/CURROW Marriage at Bolton Good Morning Listers Would SKS take a look at the above marriage PR entry at Bolton le Moors St Peter on 21 May 1761 please. The image is available within Manchester marriages on ancestry. I am unable to decipher the occupation of John BUTTERWORTH - it looks like Shoir Man, but what does that mean? The only definition of 'shoir' that I can find is that it is an obsolete version of 'shore' but does that make sense in the Bolton locality? Any other suggestions would be welcome. Many thanks Peter Knott :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list.  No fees!  The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Peter I agree with your view that it says "Shoir" although the initial S is written slightly differently to that at the start of a name in an earlier entry, and also "Spinster". Google doesn't help at all. The only thing I can think of is that either John or the clerk were "not from around here" and the clerk misheard. I've tried saying it out loud, which usually helps, and the only thing I could come up with was "Shire" said by an Irish person..... Not much help I'm afraid. Could he be a Chair Man (i.e. sedan chair)??? Do let us know when you find out.... Ruth -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Peter Knott via Sent: 01 October 2015 10:00 To: [email protected] Subject: [LAN] BUTTERWORTH/CURROW Marriage at Bolton Good Morning Listers Would SKS take a look at the above marriage PR entry at Bolton le Moors St Peter on 21 May 1761 please. The image is available within Manchester marriages on ancestry. I am unable to decipher the occupation of John BUTTERWORTH - it looks like Shoir Man, but what does that mean? The only definition of 'shoir' that I can find is that it is an obsolete version of 'shore' but does that make sense in the Bolton locality? Any other suggestions would be welcome. Many thanks Peter Knott :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good Morning Listers Would SKS take a look at the above marriage PR entry at Bolton le Moors St Peter on 21 May 1761 please. The image is available within Manchester marriages on ancestry. I am unable to decipher the occupation of John BUTTERWORTH - it looks like Shoir Man, but what does that mean? The only definition of 'shoir' that I can find is that it is an obsolete version of 'shore' but does that make sense in the Bolton locality? Any other suggestions would be welcome. Many thanks Peter Knott

I notice in the censuses that people often lived on the same street, but the numerical address would change from census to census. For instance, in 1901, the address was 484 Oldham Road. In 1911, it was 440 Oldham Road. I assume these were terrace houses. Did the family actually move from residence to residence within the terrace? If so, why? Or was the numerical address changed from time to time? If the latter, why? Thanks for thoughts on this. Carole

Fine Jeff, and Thanks again!!! Penny On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 8:34 PM, [email protected] via < [email protected]> wrote: > > > From: http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/indexw.html > > Baptism: 4 Jul 1824 St Mary, Oldham, Lancashire, England > John Taylor - Son of James Taylor & Betty > Abode: Green Gate > Occupation: Engineer > Baptised by: J. Fallowfield > Register: Baptisms 1822 - 1829, Page 96, Entry 763 > Source: Film No 1656162 > > > Baptism: 1 Feb 1835 St Mary, Oldham, Lancashire, England > Cecil Bradshaw - Son of Thomas Bradshaw & Jane > Abode: Bank Top > Occupation: Carder > Baptised by: T Fallowfield > Register: Baptisms 1834 - 1838, Page 19, Entry 151 > Source: Film No 1656162 > > Baptism: 22 Oct 1837 St Mary, Oldham, Lancashire, England > Margaret Bradshaw - Daughter of Thomas Bradshaw & Jane > Abode: Bank Top > Occupation: Rover > Baptised by: T Fallowfield > Register: Baptisms 1834 - 1838, Page 207, Entry 1654 > Source: Film No 1656162 > > Baptism: 16 Aug 1840 St Mary, Oldham, Lancashire, England > Ann Bradshaw - [Child] of Thomas Bradshaw & Jane > Abode: Bank Top > Occupation: Rover > Baptised by: J. Fallowfield > Register: Baptisms 1838 - 1844, Page 97, Entry 774 > Source: LDS Film 1656163. > > Will send you the images of the children born in Ashton to your Email addy > if that is OK > These are on Ancestry > > > > jeff > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No > fees! > > The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

From: http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/indexw.html Baptism: 4 Jul 1824 St Mary, Oldham, Lancashire, England John Taylor - Son of James Taylor & Betty Abode: Green Gate Occupation: Engineer Baptised by: J. Fallowfield Register: Baptisms 1822 - 1829, Page 96, Entry 763 Source: Film No 1656162 Baptism: 1 Feb 1835 St Mary, Oldham, Lancashire, England Cecil Bradshaw - Son of Thomas Bradshaw & Jane Abode: Bank Top Occupation: Carder Baptised by: T Fallowfield Register: Baptisms 1834 - 1838, Page 19, Entry 151 Source: Film No 1656162 Baptism: 22 Oct 1837 St Mary, Oldham, Lancashire, England Margaret Bradshaw - Daughter of Thomas Bradshaw & Jane Abode: Bank Top Occupation: Rover Baptised by: T Fallowfield Register: Baptisms 1834 - 1838, Page 207, Entry 1654 Source: Film No 1656162 Baptism: 16 Aug 1840 St Mary, Oldham, Lancashire, England Ann Bradshaw - [Child] of Thomas Bradshaw & Jane Abode: Bank Top Occupation: Rover Baptised by: J. Fallowfield Register: Baptisms 1838 - 1844, Page 97, Entry 774 Source: LDS Film 1656163. Will send you the images of the children born in Ashton to your Email addy if that is OK These are on Ancestry jeff

Hi David I have Emma Mary Ann Bisson b 1860 Jersey. Regards Frank On 30 Sep 2015 19:33, "sally roberts via" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello Cousin! > Long time no hear :o) > > Don't forget to post your emails to the Fylde rootsweb list as well - you > may find someone on there who doesn't subscribe to the Lancashire list. > Regards,Sally > > > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 18:56:13 +0100 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [LAN] Newbie > > From: [email protected] > > > > Hi > > > > New to the list, wel... after a layoff for a few years > > > > Researching Leach from Lower Darwen > > Kellett from Heysham > > Singleton from the Fyld > > Bisson from Jersey > > > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No > fees! > > The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi New to the list, wel... after a layoff for a few years Researching Leach from Lower Darwen Kellett from Heysham Singleton from the Fyld Bisson from Jersey