Hi David, My first strategy in this sort of case is - Follow the children. So there is a Charlotte Elizabeth DRY b West Derby 1881. And then looking for her in 1891 I find her with a family headed by William F DRY Railway Clerk 39, b Bootle wife Annie (did she change her name or did he re-"marry"?) and the rest of the family I saw in 1901. However I cannot find the census record you say you have found in 1891. So have you made a mistake in dates or is your William difficult to find in 1891? And are there 2 of them or is he leading a double life? When you have the censuses sorted you can have another try for the marriage. But there is a potential marriage for William Dry and Ann Mitchell in Leeds in 1883 but that is after Charlotte was born. Hope this helps Christine -----Original Message----- From: David Railton via Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 4:28 PM To: [email protected] ; [email protected] Subject: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] William Frederick DRY b1857 I am hoping that someone can help me with a marriage that I can't find. The birth of William Frederick DRY was registered at West Derby in 1857. He was the son of John and Elizabeth Fredericka DRY. The 1891 census shows him living with his mother and 2 sisters at 2 Lenthall Street Walton. He is described as age 31 a mariner and single. The 1901 census shows him with wife, Alice Ann, and children the eldest of whom is age 19. I take it that this child was a daughter of Alice by a previous marriage. William died in 1909. I have assumed from this that William and Alice married sometime between 1891 and 1901 although it may be that there was no marriage. Does anyone know of a marriage or anything of this DRY family in Liverpool? David Railton

Also the fact that a son was named 'William Frederick' - after his father, indicates this is almost certainly William Frederick's child. I was thinking that if we cannot find a marriage for William Frederick Dry -- if we had the maiden name of 'Annie' - we could search the other way round also - ie using her name.  (Just in case William F Dry hasn't been transcribed at all. June From: Jon via <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, 18 October 2015, 17:40 Subject: Re: [LAN] William Frederick DRY b1857 Hi David, There are 3 baptisms on FMP for these Dry children at Everton... Edith Ethel 16th January 1884 William Frederick 16th December 1885 Helen Augusta 19th January 1888 In all cases parents are William Frederick and Annie. So, maybe her full name was Alice Anne but she went by the name Annie? She is on the 1911 census as Alice Ann Dry, widowed, living in Cheshire, with 3 of her children William Frederick, Helen Augusta and Dorothy May. Cheers, Jon :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list.  No fees!  The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi David, If you look at the children on the 1901 census with William Frederick and Alice A -- then look at the 1891 census -- some of these same children are on the census with a William F Dry aged 33, birth year approx 1858) Railway Clerk, born Bootle and his wife Annie, aged 31, also born Bootle. Certainly the younger children at least are included in the Liverpool baptisms on Ancestry - with father's name as William F and mother's name as Annie. Are you sure that the one with his mother in 1891 is the correct William -- or might he have been leading a double life?! I can't see a marriage for him at the moment. However a birth cert could always be ordered for one of the children - to obtain Annie's maiden name. Regards June From: David Railton via <[email protected]> To: LANCSGEN <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, 18 October 2015, 15:52 Subject: [LAN] William Frederick DRY b1857 I am hoping that someone can help me with a marriage that I can't find. The birth of William Frederick DRY was registered at West Derby in 1857. He was the son of John and Elizabeth Fredericka DRY. The 1891 census shows him living with his mother and 2 sisters at 2 Lenthall Street Walton. He is described as age 31 a mariner and single. The 1901 census shows him with wife, Alice Ann, and children the eldest of whom is age 19. I take it that this child was a daughter of Alice by a previous marriage. William died in 1909. I have assumed from this that William and Alice married sometime between 1891 and 1901 although it may be that there was no marriage. Does anyone know of a marriage or anything of this DRY family in Liverpool? David Railton :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list.  No fees!  The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am hoping that someone can help me with a marriage that I can't find. The birth of William Frederick DRY was registered at West Derby in 1857. He was the son of John and Elizabeth Fredericka DRY. The 1891 census shows him living with his mother and 2 sisters at 2 Lenthall Street Walton. He is described as age 31 a mariner and single. The 1901 census shows him with wife, Alice Ann, and children the eldest of whom is age 19. I take it that this child was a daughter of Alice by a previous marriage. William died in 1909. I have assumed from this that William and Alice married sometime between 1891 and 1901 although it may be that there was no marriage. Does anyone know of a marriage or anything of this DRY family in Liverpool? David Railton

Here too is a possible Baptism for James Topping Sr.: Same website FreeReg. Lancashire Place Lancaster Church name St Mary the Priory Register type PR Baptism date 24 Apr 1785 Person forename James Person sex M Person abode Lancr Father forename John Father surname TOPPING Mother forename Dorothy Cheers, Robyn -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ehamm via Sent: Wednesday, 14 October 2015 7:34 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [LAN] James Topping Hi, I have a James Topping baptised in Lancaster in 1827 to a James Topping and Ellen. I have not yet found a marriage for James (Sr) and Ellen...though I have to admit I have not checked to see if there are updates for parish records online. Does anyone have any clues about this marriage and/or where James Topping (Sr) was baptised? Thank you to Ms Dowling for information on the family of James (Jr)'s wife Christiana Blezzard. Thanks, Elaine :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hi there, I have found the Marriage of James Topping and Ellen - County Lancashire, Place, Lancaster, St. Mary the Priory, 21 October 1811, James Topping Groom's abode, Lancaster, Brush maker and ELEANOR HORNBY, Spinster, Abode Lancaster, Witness James BEST and Wm Barwick BRADLEY. Groom and Bride signed x. This is taken from the freereg.org.uk website.......Hope this is helpful. Cheers, Robyn Hi, I have a James Topping baptised in Lancaster in 1827 to a James Topping and Ellen. I have not yet found a marriage for James (Sr) and Ellen...though I have to admit I have not checked to see if there are updates for parish records online. Does anyone have any clues about this marriage and/or where James Topping (Sr) was baptised? Thank you to Ms Dowling for information on the family of James (Jr)'s wife Christiana Blezzard. Thanks, Elaine ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

June and Elaine, Have you tried looking at Wyresdale for Toppings ???? Sheila (Fife)

Oh well done, Robyn! June From: Robyn Clarke <[email protected]> To: 'June Dowling' <[email protected]>; [email protected]; 'ehamm' <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, 14 October 2015, 13:51 Subject: RE: [LAN] James Topping Hi there, I have found the Marriage of James Topping and Ellen - County Lancashire, Place, Lancaster, St. Mary the Priory, 21 October 1811, James Topping Groom's abode, Lancaster, Brush maker and ELEANOR HORNBY, Spinster, Abode Lancaster, Witness James BEST and Wm Barwick BRADLEY. Groom and Bride signed x. This is taken from the freereg.org.uk website.......Hope this is helpful. Cheers, Robyn

Hi Elaine, I see from the baptism of the James born in 1827 (but baptised in 1830) - that father James was a Brushmaker. James, the Brushmaker and wife Ellen had several children all baptised in Lancaster -- at least; John 1813, Robert 1815, Sarah 1820, James 1827, Alice 1830, Joseph 1832. (I wonder if some are missing actually as the births are spaced out.)So James and Ellen should have married prior to John's birth in 1813, but I cannot see a marriage for them.As this is the second marriage we have looked for in that area without success, I am beginning to wonder if some marriage records for Lancaster are missing. Unless of course, someone else is able to find this! Regards June From: ehamm via <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, 13 October 2015, 21:33 Subject: [LAN] James Topping Hi, I have a James Topping baptised in Lancaster in 1827 to a James Topping and Ellen. I have not yet found a marriage for James (Sr) and Ellen...though I have to admit I have not checked to see if there are updates for parish records online. Does anyone have any clues about this marriage and/or where James Topping (Sr) was baptised? Thank you to Ms Dowling for information on the family of James (Jr)'s wife Christiana Blezzard. Thanks, Elaine ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, I have a James Topping baptised in Lancaster in 1827 to a James Topping and Ellen. I have not yet found a marriage for James (Sr) and Ellen...though I have to admit I have not checked to see if there are updates for parish records online. Does anyone have any clues about this marriage and/or where James Topping (Sr) was baptised? Thank you to Ms Dowling for information on the family of James (Jr)'s wife Christiana Blezzard. Thanks, Elaine

You correct me Nivard and you are right. All those censuses I have found in the past must indeed have been from 1911. :) But you know what I meant, I hope. xPenny On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 10:43 PM, Nivard Ovington via <[email protected] > wrote: > Hi Penny > > The records in question are ecclesiastical returns not civil > > An archdeaconry is an ecclesiastical jurisdiction under the control of > an archdeacon > > Presumably Aden came under the jurisdiction of Bombay at that time > > Where the military were enumerated in other countries, it would be that > countries census, rather than the UK > > The first where servicemen abroad were enumerated in the UK census > (other than Navy) was the 1911 > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 11/10/2015 18:29, Penny Trueman via wrote: > > Hi all, > > Can someone enlighten me please? > > Margaret Bradshaw married Giles Garlick in 1855 and were in Oldham in > 1861. > > Giles Garlick was a Private in the Queen's 2nd Foot and was afterwards > > posted abroad and Margaret went with him. > > They both died of Cholera on the 18th and 19th July 1867 and were buried > in > > "The Camp Burial Ground Aden, in the Archdeaconry & Diocese of Bombay". > > (By W.H. Cummins, 'Minister and Chaplain of Aden') > > > > At the top of the entries for the page it says: - > > ..."entries in the Register of Burials belonging to and kept at the > Church > > or station of Aden (Point) within the Archdeaconry and Diocese of > Bombay..." > > > > As far as I know Aden is in the Yemen and Bombay (Mumbai) is in India. > > Was this a case similar to foreign military/naval censuses coming under > the > > Crown (and therefore technically in England)? > > > > Hopefully, Penny > > > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No > fees! > > The list's administrator can be contacted at [email protected] > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Penny The records in question are ecclesiastical returns not civil An archdeaconry is an ecclesiastical jurisdiction under the control of an archdeacon Presumably Aden came under the jurisdiction of Bombay at that time Where the military were enumerated in other countries, it would be that countries census, rather than the UK The first where servicemen abroad were enumerated in the UK census (other than Navy) was the 1911 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 11/10/2015 18:29, Penny Trueman via wrote: > Hi all, > Can someone enlighten me please? > Margaret Bradshaw married Giles Garlick in 1855 and were in Oldham in 1861. > Giles Garlick was a Private in the Queen's 2nd Foot and was afterwards > posted abroad and Margaret went with him. > They both died of Cholera on the 18th and 19th July 1867 and were buried in > "The Camp Burial Ground Aden, in the Archdeaconry & Diocese of Bombay". > (By W.H. Cummins, 'Minister and Chaplain of Aden') > > At the top of the entries for the page it says: - > ..."entries in the Register of Burials belonging to and kept at the Church > or station of Aden (Point) within the Archdeaconry and Diocese of Bombay..." > > As far as I know Aden is in the Yemen and Bombay (Mumbai) is in India. > Was this a case similar to foreign military/naval censuses coming under the > Crown (and therefore technically in England)? > > Hopefully, Penny

Thanks for that Adrian. You have clarified the situation (somewhat) and reassured me. I presume that they were in Aden (Point) - which is a port - on the way to somewhere else - possibly India, or even on their way back. Penny :) On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 9:28 PM, Adrian Bruce <[email protected]> wrote: > Well, I don't know about stuff under the Crown being technically in > Britain, seems to me they just counted it. But in the case of Aden, it is > surprising how far the concept of "British India" stretched. Simply for > convenience, at various times and for various purposes, British India > (which is a legal term and is not the same as India) included Burma, and > lots of other places including, as you see, Aden. See the FIBIwiki entry on > http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php/Aden > > Adrian > > On 11 October 2015 at 18:29, Penny Trueman via <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> ... >> At the top of the entries for the page it says: - >> ..."entries in the Register of Burials belonging to and kept at the Church >> or station of Aden (Point) within the Archdeaconry and Diocese of >> Bombay..." >> >> As far as I know Aden is in the Yemen and Bombay (Mumbai) is in India. >> Was this a case similar to foreign military/naval censuses coming under >> the >> Crown (and therefore technically in England)? >> ... >> > >

Well, I don't know about stuff under the Crown being technically in Britain, seems to me they just counted it. But in the case of Aden, it is surprising how far the concept of "British India" stretched. Simply for convenience, at various times and for various purposes, British India (which is a legal term and is not the same as India) included Burma, and lots of other places including, as you see, Aden. See the FIBIwiki entry on http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php/Aden Adrian On 11 October 2015 at 18:29, Penny Trueman via <[email protected]> wrote: > ... > At the top of the entries for the page it says: - > ..."entries in the Register of Burials belonging to and kept at the Church > or station of Aden (Point) within the Archdeaconry and Diocese of > Bombay..." > > As far as I know Aden is in the Yemen and Bombay (Mumbai) is in India. > Was this a case similar to foreign military/naval censuses coming under the > Crown (and therefore technically in England)? > ... >

Hi all, Can someone enlighten me please? Margaret Bradshaw married Giles Garlick in 1855 and were in Oldham in 1861. Giles Garlick was a Private in the Queen's 2nd Foot and was afterwards posted abroad and Margaret went with him. They both died of Cholera on the 18th and 19th July 1867 and were buried in "The Camp Burial Ground Aden, in the Archdeaconry & Diocese of Bombay". (By W.H. Cummins, 'Minister and Chaplain of Aden') At the top of the entries for the page it says: - ..."entries in the Register of Burials belonging to and kept at the Church or station of Aden (Point) within the Archdeaconry and Diocese of Bombay..." As far as I know Aden is in the Yemen and Bombay (Mumbai) is in India. Was this a case similar to foreign military/naval censuses coming under the Crown (and therefore technically in England)? Hopefully, Penny

Hi Sally, Sorry to hear the sad news about your Mum......I've only just got to reading my e-mails, You do a wonderful job with these Online Parish Records..... I don't think we appreciate all time you must spend typing them... so thanks again and my condolences on your loss Sheila (Fife)

The Valuation Rolls are a very handy quick check on property ownership. There was one published every year, local archives hold them and some are available on ScotlandsPeople. They give (from memory) basic information on tenant, owner, rent etc. You compare years to see when someone moved. Martin Briscoe Fort William [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Merv & Cherryl via Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 3:34 AM To: 'Nivard Ovington via' <[email protected]> Subject: [LAN] tenancy aggreements Hi. I know this is a Lancashire site but would Scotland keep the same detailed agreements. Cherryl

A MAN NAMED THOMAS OGDEN has died at the Manchester Infirmary of hydrophobia, resulting from two bites which he had received from a stray dog in February last. He had refused to have the wound cauterised at the time. He felt no cause for alarm until about a week ago, when the place where his hand had been wounded became painful. He then appears to have made up his mind for the worst. He began to be seized with violent paroxysms; but in one of the intervals he embraced his family and bade them farewell – cautioning them to keep away. He soon became very violent and for two hours defied all attempts to approach him. He was at length overpowered and conveyed to the infirmary. ======================================================= barb, ontario, canada.

A MISTAKEN VERDICT. At the Liverpool Police-court, JAMES GANDY, 20, painter, a respectably-dressed young man, has been charged with having, on the 21st. October, stolen a mackintosh coat, the property of JOHN HOWARD, a railway porter, at Edgehill Station. At the time when of the foreman of the jury was delivering the verdict, a considerable amount of coughing took place in the court, which rendered it difficult for the verdict to be heard. The Clerk of the Peace recorded the verdict as one of guilty, and the prisoner then pleaded guilty to a previous conviction. There was a second indictment against him charging him with having, on the 13th December last, stolen a coat, the property of JOSEPH TOY; and MR. SEGAR, who was for the prosecution, asked the recorder if he considered it necessary for him to go into the case. The recorder replied that he did not think it was necessary. A previous conviction had been proved against the prisoner, and he would merely read over the depositions in the second case. Having done this, the recorder was about to pass sentence upon the prisoner, remarking that the jury had “very properly” found him guilty of the charge of stealing HOWARD’s coat. At this point, he was interrupted by the foreman of the jury, who asked if he was referring to the first case in which the prisoner had been put on his trial. The learned recorder replied that he was, upon which the foreman, amid considerable laughter, stated that in that case the jury had acquitted the prisoner. The recorder said he had certainly understood, as most people in the court had done, that the verdict was one of guilty. The foreman explained that at the moment he was delivering the verdict, a member of the bar coughed very violently, and perhaps that might have occasioned the misunderstanding. Several members of the bar present said they were under the impression that the verdict was one of guilty, and the recorder remarked that the prisoner himself was evidently of the same opinion. The prisoner was then acquitted on the first charge, and charged on the second indictment, but in this case the recorder ruled that the evidence of possession of the coat by the prisoner was not sufficient to sustain the charge. The prisoner was thereupon acquitted, the recorder advising him to be exceedingly cautious in the future. =======================================================

Hi. I know this is a Lancashire site but would Scotland keep the same detailed agreements. Cherryl