For some unknown reason the chart that I was making reference to was split up, and most of it is at the bottom of the messages, so, please scroll down to see it :-)  Ach, I'll try to send it here too to see if it all goes at once.  M269 R1b1a2*...............Maisie 1. L23 !R1b1a2a* 1. L150 !R1b1a2a1* 1. L51 !R1b1a2a1a* 1. P311L52L11P310 !L151R1b1a2a1a1* 1. U106 !R1b1a2a1a1a* 1. U198 !R1b1a2a1a1a1 2. P107 !R1b1a2a1a1a2 3. L1 !R1b1a2a1a1a3 4. L48 !R1b1a2a1a1a4* 1. L47 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a* 1. L44 !L163R1b1a2a1a1a4a1* 1. L46 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a* 1. L45L164 !L237R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a1 2. L148 !R1b1a2a1a1a4b 3. L188 !R1b1a2a1a1a4c 5. L6 !R1b1a2a1a1a5 6. P89.2 !R1b1a2a1a1a6 7. L217 !R1b1a2a1a1a7 8. L257 !R1b1a2a1a1a8 9. L325 !R1b1a2a1a1a9 2. P312 !R1b1a2a1a1b* 1. M65 !R1b1a2a1a1b1 2. M153 !R1b1a2a1a1b2 3. U152 !R1b1a2a1a1b3* 1. M126 !R1b1a2a1a1b3a 2. M160 !R1b1a2a1a1b3b 3. L2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c* 1. L20 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1* 1. M228.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1a 2. L196 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c2 4. L4 !R1b1a2a1a1b3d 4. L21 !R1b1a2a1a1b4* 1. M37 !R1b1a2a1a1b4a 2. M222 !R1b1a2a1a1b4b...........Frank 3. P66 !R1b1a2a1a1b4c 4. L96 !R1b1a2a1a1b4d 5. L144 !L195R1b1a2a1a1b4e 6. L159.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4f 7. L193 !R1b1a2a1a1b4g 8. L226 !R1b1a2a1a1b4h 9. P314.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4i 5. L176.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b5* 1. SRY2627 !R1b1a2a1a1b5a 2. L165 !R1b1a2a1a1b5b   Cliff. From: Cliff. Johnston <[email protected]> To: Frank Mcgonigal <[email protected]>; Maisie Egger <[email protected]>; "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [Lanark] LANARK Digest, Vol 8, Issue 165 Frank,   Dunno, maybe - aaah, perhaps a definite maybe?  ;-)  Right now with only 12 markers tested Maisie is shown as an abbreviated M229, R1b1a2a*.  She needs more markers tested to tell much more of anything.  It is just that her exact matches are shown as those with more tested markers and the haplogroup R1b1a2a1a1b4b.  Let's face it, FTDNA cannot predict a whole lot with only 12 markers.  They may have tested something more and simply not told us.   To get to M222 you had to test positive for M269 which is as far as Maisie has tested.  You tested much further, and as you can see on the FTDNA chart:   R1b1a2a*..................Maisie   The solution is for both of you to be tested to 67 markers to see how many changes (or mutations) there are, and it depends upon which markers have mutated (or changed).  As you can see from the above chart, there is lots of room for changes to happen, but for some reason or other FTDNA is showing Maisie as matching others in the same haplogroup as you are in.  The more that I think about it the more that I believe that they know something that they are not showing...  It happens.   Then one has to interpret the results...  There are "fast-changing markers" (so designated by FTDNA) such as Loci 32-35 which some mathematicians disregard totally when counting miss-matches, much to the dismay of FTDNA.  The gurus do not always agree with each other ;-)  In our Johnston/e family we have a grandfather and grandson with 2 changes (or mutations), one at Locus #32 and the other at Locus #35.  Their age difference is about 50 years - I need to verify their exact age difference and make a note of it too.   Then there are "fast-changing markers" such as Loci 5 & 6 which appear to me in my Johnston/e family to be "medium-changing" among the "fast-changing", still, they are designated as "fast-changing markers".   Lastly there are "fast-changing markers" that are a wee bit slower changing than the rest of the "fast-changing markers", such as Loci 9 & 13-15.  lol...it's enough to drive a sane man daft from time to time ;-)   One just has to take a look at what the 2 of you have, and take it from there using whatever knowledge and experience is available as not all of the knowledge is born out by the practical experiences.    I have found in our Johnston/e group that we have 2 groups of 2 people, both with with 2 changes (or mutations) in 67 markers, that both pairs have found their Most Recent Common Ancestor in the mid-1700s.  My 2 cousins and I have a perfect match for 67 markers, and we are looking for our Most Recent Common Ancestor sometime in the late 1700s or early 1800s.  Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.  If you look at the recent activity on the Co. Cavan, Ireland, list you'll see that a bunch of us are getting ready to kick down some doors, big time.  We just need to get a few more upgrades from cousins in Canada.   I hope that I haven't confused you too much :-)   Good hunting,   Cliff.   From: Frank Mcgonigal <[email protected]> To: Cliff. Johnston <[email protected]>; Maisie Egger <[email protected]>; "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 6:34 PM Subject: RE: [Lanark] LANARK Digest, Vol 8, Issue 165 Does it signify anything that I have the same as Maisie ? Y-DNA    R1b1a2a1a1b4b    Shorthand    R-M222 mtDNA    V Frank McGonigal ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~