Dora,   The information that you asked about was left out on purpose.  I gave only a skeletal version, and it will stay that way on a public list.  We are very satisfied with our research and probable causes.   Good hunting,   Cliff. From: Dora Smith <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [Lanark] The lighter side of DNA Cliff: You do not mention what is your genetic distance from this family with the different surname.  Also if more than one Johnston has the same Y DNA, and how closely you are to each other, or when the earliest known common ancestor of the people who have the same Y DNA lived, or, if you don't know, what is the genetic distance between you. Especially without that information, your speculations assume quite a lot. Even if you and this family were closely related, it would still assume quite a lot.  Maybe someone was adopted and this wasn't known! And even if a baby weren't fathered by its mother's husband, you've still got no idea what happened. I am however fascinated by Scottish culture.  Some of my Scotch-Irish histories say that before Presbyterianism and sometimes after, the Scots were pretty indiscrimantly promiscuous.  I think this was the old Celtic culture.  My brother belongs to a 1700 year old DNA clade.  Its common ancestor clearly followed the Roman army around England and the middle Rhine.  Thus they were there too early to have hung onto their seemingly Germanic identity.  There is one lineage in the group where 7 families who all lived in one county in Maryland in the 18th century have a genetic distance of 0. Now, in Scotland, if you get back to the 17th century in Lanark you're in a time when surnames hadn't been fully adopted.  Even the 18th century. Dora -----Original Message----- From: Cliff. Johnston Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 1:13 PM To: [email protected] ; [email protected] ; richardkendell Subject: Re: [Lanark] The lighter side of DNA Richard, I've been looking at a case for about 6 months now in which our Johnston genes appeared in a family with a different surname.  Adoption has been ruled out.  The surnames were not changed.  This leaves us with one other choice.  The wife looked elsewhere for companionship and a pregnancy resulted.  This then raises the question, "Was the pregnancy planned or an accident?"  It appears that the husband may have been injured and unable to reproduce.  His wife had her needs, and she proceeded to have them fulfilled.  The child was at the end of a line of her husband's children and appears to have been well loved and provided for by him.  Other than this one, I have come across at least 4 instances where the husband had been unable to provide his wife with a child when she wanted one.  The wife proceeded to become pregnant with another man.  Whether this was by mutual agreement or not we may never know, but she and her husband raised the child (or 3 children in one instance) as their own and lived together until death - happily we hope. It is not always all that easy when trying to sort out different surnames appearing suddenly when the DNA indicates that some unknown event happened. One needs to be aware of the many reasons for this happening.  Gossiping tends to favor illicit relationships more often than not.  After all, who doesn't enjoy a juicy bit of gossip???  lol...  ;-)  From private letters held in various museums we know that women back then had their own ways of handling extra-marital affairs, and they were very judicious about how they carried on in private.  For a woman looking to "sample the wares" of a man other than her husband she would typically wait until she became pregnant by her husband.  Only when she was pregnant by her husband would she then have her affairs.  Then she didn't have to worry about becoming pregnant as she was there already.  We should not sell our ancestors short.  They knew what they were doing. Good hunting, Cliff. From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected]; richardkendell <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [Lanark] The lighter side of DNA While that cannot be ruled out, Black is one of the names known to have been taken by the MacGregors at the time of proscription. In any case, what I found of interest was that the DNA showed our family's MacGregor connection regardless of what our name is now. Sheila ---- richardkendell <[email protected]> wrote: > Perhaps I have missed something but couldn't the Black connection be the > illegitimate father of one of your ancestors. Not all wives were entirely > faithful! > > Richard Kendell > (Descended from 2 illegitimate liaisons that I know of - there may have > been > others- on my male surname line) > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 2:00 PM > To: Nivard Ovington ; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Lanark] The lighter side of DNA > > Regarding the usefulness of DNA testing, I am very pleased with what > emerged > from my brother's test. With the surname Black we didn't have any idea > about > our origins. The FTDNA results came with a list of names of others who > have > close DNA matches and we found that the majority had the name MacGregor or > associated names such as Greig or McGhee as well as a few Campbells. We > assume that our name goes back to the time when the MacGregor name was > proscribed in Scotland and the clan members had to take other names, Black > being one of them. I have read that some of them also took the name > Campbell, which this DNA match list would seem to confirm. > > We did the 37 marker test back in 2008 and in my opinion it was definitely > worthwhile. > > Sheila Brewer > > ---- Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Clearly I appear to be in a minority of one <g> > > > > I can see no use at all for dna in my own research, I have no desire to > > know that a person whose name I don't know and likely never will, came > > from XXXXX several hundred years ago > > > > Neither do I see the need to line the pockets of the many companies > > pedalling dna checks and databases > > > > That is not say I don't think there should be discussion about dna on > > the lists, I really don't mind, my delete button works just fine :-) > > > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier > > message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] > > > > You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on > > the following link to the list information page online: > > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier > message. > Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] > > You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on > the > following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier > message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] > > You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on > the following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message   ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online:  http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message