Maisie and I have been going over her Y-DNA information off-group privately.  She has a wealth of information in her 12 markers!  I've gone over it with her, and we would like to share the general gist of it as follows, in the hopes that it may help someone else - great gal that Maisie!   The red copy added to the Haplogroup entries are my additions to some of the information that FTDNA provided for Maisie.  I hope that the copy shows up in red - if not it is the copy right after each Haplogroup entry, i.e.:  "Maisie - 12 Markers Test"  Exact Match Haplogroup Country Comment Count R1b1 - Maisie - 12 Markers Test Scotland - 2 R1b1 - Unknown Person - 12 Markers Test Unknown Origin - 1 R1b1a2– Probable 25 Marker Test Unknown Origin - 1 R1b1a2a1a1b4 – Probable 37 Markers England - 1 R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 Markers Test England - 1 R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 Markers Test Germany - 1 R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 Markers Test Ireland - 11 R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 Markers Test Northern Ireland - 1 R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 MarkersTest Scotland - 5 R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 MarkersTest United Kingdom - 3 R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 MarkersTest Unknown Origin - 9 From what we can see here, Maisie may have at least 22 Haplogroup matches that will probably be within genealogical time – good deal!   The interpretation that may be the most obvious here is that her genetic predecessor started in Europe and moved to the British Isles, Ireland more specifically.  His genes mutated to give us the modern day haplogroup R1b1a2a1a1b4b.  Over the years some of this group moved on to England and Scotland.  Of course this could be just as easily interpreted in several other ways with the genetic predecessor starting in any of the above mentioned countries and the only group that really flourished was in Ireland; however, Ireland was typically the last stop at the end of a journey from mainland Europe.    With most of the Matches being of Irish origin all of the different Irish surnames do not surprise me.  I have worked with my wife’s side of the family, Casey of Co. Cork, and I have found much the same thing there.  Maisie's main line would have started in one town or farm area in Ireland.  As their numbers grew the land could not support all of them.  Some moved on to greener pastures, so to speak.  When they moved to a new area they would typically have taken the surname of their local protector – ergo!  We have the reason for all of the different surnames in the Matches section of FTDNA.  Typically I have seen a lot of surname changes in Ireland within the various Celtic haplogroups.  They apparently moved around quite a bit.   The only way that Maisie going to be able to track this down quickly and more precisely is to upgrade to at least 37 markers, and realistically she will probably want to upgrade to 67 markers after that.  At least this has been my experience.  Maisie has one other strong factor in her favor, many of those who match her have posted their contact information so that she can email them easily J  The trick will be to not get hung up looking for just one surname, Clint.  She need to look for genetic relatedness.  What are her chances of finding useable matches?  Excellent, I would say.  The next step is up to her – and of course I will be here to help Maisie figure out what to do next – God willing J We've been rubbing shoulders on the internet for so long that I swear that some days I feel as if she is kin and right next door :-)  Would you like a cuppa, Maisie?   Good hunting,   Cliff.

Does it signify anything that I have the same as Maisie ? Y-DNA R1b1a2a1a1b4b Shorthand R-M222 mtDNA V Frank McGonigal ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   > Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 14:32:36 -0700 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Lanark] LANARK Digest, Vol 8, Issue 165 > > Maisie and I have been going over her Y-DNA information off-group privately.  She has a wealth of information in her 12 markers!  I've gone over it with her, and we would like to share the general gist of it as follows, in the hopes that it may help someone else - great gal that Maisie! >   > The red copy added to the Haplogroup entries are my additions to some of the information that FTDNA provided for Maisie.  I hope that the copy shows up in red - if not it is the copy right after each Haplogroup entry, i.e.:  "Maisie - 12 Markers Test" >  Exact Match > Haplogroup Country Comment Count > R1b1 - Maisie - 12 Markers Test Scotland - 2 > R1b1 - Unknown Person - 12 Markers Test Unknown Origin - 1 > R1b1a2– Probable 25 Marker Test Unknown Origin - 1 > R1b1a2a1a1b4 – Probable 37 Markers England - 1 > R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 Markers Test England - 1 > R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 Markers Test Germany - 1 > R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 Markers Test Ireland - 11 > R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 Markers Test Northern Ireland - 1 > R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 MarkersTest Scotland - 5 > R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 MarkersTest United Kingdom - 3 > R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 MarkersTest Unknown Origin - 9 > > From what we can see here, Maisie may have at least 22 Haplogroup matches that will probably be within genealogical time – good deal! >   > The interpretation that may be the most obvious here is that her genetic predecessor started in Europe and moved to the British Isles, Ireland more specifically.  His genes mutated to give us the modern day haplogroup R1b1a2a1a1b4b.  Over the years some of this group moved on to England and Scotland.  Of course this could be just as easily interpreted in several other ways with the genetic predecessor starting in any of the above mentioned countries and the only group that really flourished was in Ireland; however, Ireland was typically the last stop at the end of a journey from mainland Europe.  >   > With most of the Matches being of Irish origin all of the different Irish surnames do not surprise me.  I have worked with my wife’s side of the family, Casey of Co. Cork, and I have found much the same thing there.  Maisie's main line would have started in one town or farm area in Ireland.  As their numbers grew the land could not support all of them.  Some moved on to greener pastures, so to speak.  When they moved to a new area they would typically have taken the surname of their local protector – ergo!  We have the reason for all of the different surnames in the Matches section of FTDNA.  Typically I have seen a lot of surname changes in Ireland within the various Celtic haplogroups.  They apparently moved around quite a bit. >   > The only way that Maisie going to be able to track this down quickly and more precisely is to upgrade to at least 37 markers, and realistically she will probably want to upgrade to 67 markers after that.  At least this has been my experience.  Maisie has one other strong factor in her favor, many of those who match her have posted their contact information so that she can email them easily J  The trick will be to not get hung up looking for just one surname, Clint.  She need to look for genetic relatedness.  What are her chances of finding useable matches?  Excellent, I would say.  The next step is up to her – and of course I will be here to help Maisie figure out what to do next – God willing J We've been rubbing shoulders on the internet for so long that I swear that some days I feel as if she is kin and right next door :-)  Would you like a cuppa, Maisie? >   > Good hunting, >   > Cliff. > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] > > You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Frank,   Dunno, maybe - aaah, perhaps a definite maybe?  ;-)  Right now with only 12 markers tested Maisie is shown as an abbreviated M229, R1b1a2a*.  She needs more markers tested to tell much more of anything.  It is just that her exact matches are shown as those with more tested markers and the haplogroup R1b1a2a1a1b4b.  Let's face it, FTDNA cannot predict a whole lot with only 12 markers.  They may have tested something more and simply not told us.   To get to M222 you had to test positive for M269 which is as far as Maisie has tested.  You tested much further, and as you can see on the FTDNA chart:   R1b1a2a*..................Maisie   The solution is for both of you to be tested to 67 markers to see how many changes (or mutations) there are, and it depends upon which markers have mutated (or changed).  As you can see from the above chart, there is lots of room for changes to happen, but for some reason or other FTDNA is showing Maisie as matching others in the same haplogroup as you are in.  The more that I think about it the more that I believe that they know something that they are not showing...  It happens.   Then one has to interpret the results...  There are "fast-changing markers" (so designated by FTDNA) such as Loci 32-35 which some mathematicians disregard totally when counting miss-matches, much to the dismay of FTDNA.  The gurus do not always agree with each other ;-)  In our Johnston/e family we have a grandfather and grandson with 2 changes (or mutations), one at Locus #32 and the other at Locus #35.  Their age difference is about 50 years - I need to verify their exact age difference and make a note of it too.   Then there are "fast-changing markers" such as Loci 5 & 6 which appear to me in my Johnston/e family to be "medium-changing" among the "fast-changing", still, they are designated as "fast-changing markers".   Lastly there are "fast-changing markers" that are a wee bit slower changing than the rest of the "fast-changing markers", such as Loci 9 & 13-15.  lol...it's enough to drive a sane man daft from time to time ;-)   One just has to take a look at what the 2 of you have, and take it from there using whatever knowledge and experience is available as not all of the knowledge is born out by the practical experiences.    I have found in our Johnston/e group that we have 2 groups of 2 people, both with with 2 changes (or mutations) in 67 markers, that both pairs have found their Most Recent Common Ancestor in the mid-1700s.  My 2 cousins and I have a perfect match for 67 markers, and we are looking for our Most Recent Common Ancestor sometime in the late 1700s or early 1800s.  Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.  If you look at the recent activity on the Co. Cavan, Ireland, list you'll see that a bunch of us are getting ready to kick down some doors, big time.  We just need to get a few more upgrades from cousins in Canada.   I hope that I haven't confused you too much :-)   Good hunting,   Cliff.   From: Frank Mcgonigal <[email protected]> To: Cliff. Johnston <[email protected]>; Maisie Egger <[email protected]>; "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 6:34 PM Subject: RE: [Lanark] LANARK Digest, Vol 8, Issue 165 Does it signify anything that I have the same as Maisie ? Y-DNA    R1b1a2a1a1b4b    Shorthand    R-M222 mtDNA    V Frank McGonigal ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   > Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 14:32:36 -0700 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Lanark] LANARK Digest, Vol 8, Issue 165 > > Maisie and I have been going over her Y-DNA information off-group privately.  She has a wealth of information in her 12 markers!  I've gone over it with her, and we would like to share the general gist of it as follows, in the hopes that it may help someone else - great gal that Maisie! >   > The red copy added to the Haplogroup entries are my additions to some of the information that FTDNA provided for Maisie.  I hope that the copy shows up in red - if not it is the copy right after each Haplogroup entry, i.e.:  "Maisie - 12 Markers Test" >  Exact Match > Haplogroup Country Comment Count > R1b1 - Maisie - 12 Markers Test Scotland - 2 > R1b1 - Unknown Person - 12 Markers Test Unknown Origin - 1 > R1b1a2– Probable 25 Marker Test Unknown Origin - 1 > R1b1a2a1a1b4 – Probable 37 Markers England - 1 > R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 Markers Test England - 1 > R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 Markers Test Germany - 1 > R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 Markers Test Ireland - 11 > R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 Markers Test Northern Ireland - 1 > R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 MarkersTest Scotland - 5 > R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 MarkersTest United Kingdom - 3 > R1b1a2a1a1b4b – Probable 67 MarkersTest Unknown Origin - 9 > > From what we can see here, Maisie may have at least 22 Haplogroup matches that will probably be within genealogical time – good deal! >   > The interpretation that may be the most obvious here is that her genetic predecessor started in Europe and moved to the British Isles, Ireland more specifically.  His genes mutated to give us the modern day haplogroup R1b1a2a1a1b4b.  Over the years some of this group moved on to England and Scotland.  Of course this could be just as easily interpreted in several other ways with the genetic predecessor starting in any of the above mentioned countries and the only group that really flourished was in Ireland; however, Ireland was typically the last stop at the end of a journey from mainland Europe.  >   > With most of the Matches being of Irish origin all of the different Irish surnames do not surprise me.  I have worked with my wife’s side of the family, Casey of Co. Cork, and I have found much the same thing there.  Maisie's main line would have started in one town or farm area in Ireland.  As their numbers grew the land could not support all of them.  Some moved on to greener pastures, so to speak.  When they moved to a new area they would typically have taken the surname of their local protector – ergo!  We have the reason for all of the different surnames in the Matches section of FTDNA.  Typically I have seen a lot of surname changes in Ireland within the various Celtic haplogroups.  They apparently moved around quite a bit. >   > The only way that Maisie going to be able to track this down quickly and more precisely is to upgrade to at least 37 markers, and realistically she will probably want to upgrade to 67 markers after that.  At least this has been my experience.  Maisie has one other strong factor in her favor, many of those who match her have posted their contact information so that she can email them easily J  The trick will be to not get hung up looking for just one surname, Clint.  She need to look for genetic relatedness.  What are her chances of finding useable matches?  Excellent, I would say.  The next step is up to her – and of course I will be here to help Maisie figure out what to do next – God willing J We've been rubbing shoulders on the internet for so long that I swear that some days I feel as if she is kin and right next door :-)  Would you like a cuppa, Maisie? >   > Good hunting, >   > Cliff. > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] > > You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message                         1. L150 !R1b1a2a1* 1. L51 !R1b1a2a1a* 1. P311L52L11P310 !L151R1b1a2a1a1* 1. U106 !R1b1a2a1a1a* 1. U198 !R1b1a2a1a1a1 2. P107 !R1b1a2a1a1a2 3. L1 !R1b1a2a1a1a3 4. L48 !R1b1a2a1a1a4* 1. L47 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a* 1. L44 !L163R1b1a2a1a1a4a1* 1. L46 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a* 1. L45L164 !L237R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a1 2. L148 !R1b1a2a1a1a4b 3. L188 !R1b1a2a1a1a4c 5. L6 !R1b1a2a1a1a5 6. P89.2 !R1b1a2a1a1a6 7. L217 !R1b1a2a1a1a7 8. L257 !R1b1a2a1a1a8 9. L325 !R1b1a2a1a1a9 2. P312 !R1b1a2a1a1b* 1. M65 !R1b1a2a1a1b1 2. M153 !R1b1a2a1a1b2 3. U152 !R1b1a2a1a1b3* 1. M126 !R1b1a2a1a1b3a 2. M160 !R1b1a2a1a1b3b 3. L2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c* 1. L20 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1* 1. M228.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1a 2. L196 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c2 4. L4 !R1b1a2a1a1b3d 4. L21 !R1b1a2a1a1b4* 1. M37 !R1b1a2a1a1b4a 2. M222 !..........................FrankR1b1a2a1a1b4b 3. P66 !R1b1a2a1a1b4c 4. L96 !R1b1a2a1a1b4d 5. L144 !L195R1b1a2a1a1b4e 6. L159.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4f 7. L193 !R1b1a2a1a1b4g 8. L226 !R1b1a2a1a1b4h 9. P314.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4i 5. L176.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b5* 1. SRY2627 !R1b1a2a1a1b5a 2. L165 !R1b1a2a1a1b5b