I subscribed to the cheapest offering for DNA testing for my side, with my brother giving the sample. I don't really know what I expected, but was disappointed that all I got was a list of names from all over the shop, with not one sharing my surname. I also know that some on the list have found far out cousins through DNA testing, but they had the same surname, so maybe an easy find. I was then encouraged to climb up the ladder and subscribe to more involved and expensive DNA testing. I declined. I would much rather compile a family tree of "knowns" than people from all over the place with different names who somehow have the same DNA going back to the year dot. A great tool for scientists and those who really understand the rudiments of DNA testing, but not for me as science has never been my bailiwick. Thanks for the tip, though. Maisie -----Original Message----- From: Catt Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 9:14 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] LANARK Digest, Vol 8, Issue 165 To find your father or his offspring, you could have a brother or ? take a DNA test. That would give you links to hundreds of males from many different countries. If you took one, there could be male dna in there too. Familytreedna.com Or you could try the Mormon sites Catt On Mon 07/10/13 3:00 AM , [email protected] sent: > > > > > PLEASE NOTE > > > > When replying to a digest message, please quote only the specific portion > or message to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from > your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it > coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. > > > ------------------------------- > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. USS Ohio and Jack Surmann (Maisie Egger) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 20:12:21 -0700 > > From: "Maisie Egger" ca > [email protected]> > Subject: [Lanark] USS Ohio and Jack Surmann > > To: [email protected] > otsweb.com> > Message-ID: [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Once more the Lanark list has produced some answers for me. > > > > Admittedly I am the absolutely worst researcher, and so it continues to be > an eye-opener when someone unearths information for me. > > > Jo Ann Croft found the list of crew members on the USS Ohio, 1907, on > which > my husband?s father served with Teddy Roosevelt?s Great White Fleet. > There > was a lot of other interesting information about which countries the ships > visited, pictures. etc. > > > Jo Ann could not find anything on Jack Surmann, however, the cousin ?Pop? > was to supposed to have had a fight with. I did find a contact e-mail > address and have written to see if there is a database that can be checked > for Jack Surmann. > > > If we can get this fellow where he belongs, then I have another major > brick > wall to knock down to find out who the parents were of my > great-grandfather, William Clint, Kirkcudbrightshire. If his father is > the > dastardly rascal who seeded a few out of wedlock, then that will surely > add > to the colour of the family narrative. > > > How anyone is just content with basic stats mystifies me as the hunt for > details is what makes genealogy so interesting. > > > Thanks again to Jo Ann for her extra help. > > > > Maisie > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > To contact the LANARK list administrator, send an email to > > LAN > [email protected] > > > To post a message to the LANARK mailing list, send an email to [email protected] > otsweb.com. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to L > [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > > > > End of LANARK Digest, Vol 8, Issue 165 > > ************************************** > > > > > > ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Maisie,   We get what we pay for with Y-DNA testing, only the testing companies do not tell us that ;-)   As I have said elsewhere many times, the only company worth testing with is FTDNA.  They have the largest and best support system.  Period.   Here is my take on the different tests available (my opinion only):   12-markers test:  just whets your appetite for more testing.  About the only ones who get useful information from this test are National Geographic and the I haplogroup Johnston/es [said tongue-in-cheek as we do have a very distinctive Y-DNA signature - I can tell if you are kin by looking at the first 4 markers - the others are a bonus ;-) ]  Not worth the effort to take, IMO, for genealogical purposes.   25-markers test:  about as useless as the old saying that my grandfather used about bulls, teats and how worthless they were on a bull ;-)   32-markers test:  helpful to eliminate more distant connections and reaffirm closer connections.  A decent test, but has too many gaps.   67-markers test:  the best test to take initially as it will put you on a family branch if enough have tested in your haplogroup for branches to start showing up.   111-markers test:  we are still working out the value of this upgrade.  So far it appears to be very useful for sorting close kin, say within 2-6 generations.  If enough have this number of markers tested in your haplogroup it is very helpful.   Should you test with any other company than FTDNA, you need to be aware that the alternative-company tests do not include all of the same markers as those done by FTDNA.  This means that in order for one to compare an alternative-source company's Y-DNA results to that of FTDNA's results one will have to buy an additional make-up test from FTDNA in order to make a valid comparison.  This takes more time in addition to more money.   Good hunting,   Cliff.      From: Maisie Egger <[email protected]> To: [email protected]; [email protected] Sent: Monday, October 7, 2013 1:46 PM Subject: Re: [Lanark] LANARK Digest, Vol 8, Issue 165 I subscribed to the cheapest offering for DNA testing for my side, with my brother giving the sample.  I don't really know what I expected, but was disappointed that all I got was a list of names from all over the shop, with not one sharing my surname.  I also know that some on the list have found far out cousins through DNA testing, but they had the same surname, so maybe an easy find. I was then encouraged to climb up the ladder and subscribe to more involved and expensive DNA testing.  I declined. I would much rather compile a family tree of "knowns" than people from all over the place with different names who somehow have the same DNA going back to the year dot. A great tool for scientists and those who really understand the rudiments of DNA testing, but not for me as science has never been my bailiwick. Thanks for the tip, though. Maisie

Cliff, How I admire your “smarts” to untangle the different levels of DNA testing! I can talk the hind legs off a donkey, but my brain freezes at trying to unscramble the different levels of DNA testing, though you did your best to give a clear understanding. DNA testing is really not essential to me: there is no huge heritance among relatives in contention or the birthright of this or that human, and so on, so as I remarked, I’ll just stick with the “tree” plunking names/relatives*** on the different branches as they are found. I subscribed to the 12-marker at the “bargain price” of $39, but should have saved my money as all I’ve got out of it so far are lists of meaningless names, not one of which shares my surname. Thanks for taking the time to explain this to such as I who does not know which end is up where DNA testing is concerned. ***HOWEVER, there is one instance where DNA would be very useful where there is a possible family connection with its roots in York, one of whose descendants is still living in southwest Scotland (a direct descendant) and then my own male relatives in Lanarkshire whose DNA could be checked to see if one is from the other, but I am too inept about following through on this, plus the expense. I’d rather use the money to hire someone to paint the bathroom! Maisie ---------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cliff. Johnston Maisie, We get what we pay for with Y-DNA testing, only the testing companies do not tell us that ;-) As I have said elsewhere many times, the only company worth testing with is FTDNA. They have the largest and best support system. Period. Here is my take on the different tests available (my opinion only): 12-markers test: just whets your appetite for more testing. About the only ones who get useful information from this test are National Geographic and the I haplogroup Johnston/es [said tongue-in-cheek as we do have a very distinctive Y-DNA signature - I can tell if you are kin by looking at the first 4 markers - the others are a bonus ;-) ] Not worth the effort to take, IMO, for genealogical purposes. 25-markers test: about as useless as the old saying that my grandfather used about bulls, teats and how worthless they were on a bull ;-) 32-markers test: helpful to eliminate more distant connections and reaffirm closer connections. A decent test, but has too many gaps. 67-markers test: the best test to take initially as it will put you on a family branch if enough have tested in your haplogroup for branches to start showing up. 111-markers test: we are still working out the value of this upgrade. So far it appears to be very useful for sorting close kin, say within 2-6 generations. If enough have this number of markers tested in your haplogroup it is very helpful. Should you test with any other company than FTDNA, you need to be aware that the alternative-company tests do not include all of the same markers as those done by FTDNA. This means that in order for one to compare an alternative-source company's Y-DNA results to that of FTDNA's results one will have to buy an additional make-up test from FTDNA in order to make a valid comparison. This takes more time in addition to more money. Good hunting, Cliff. From: Maisie Egger [email protected] I subscribed to the cheapest offering for DNA testing for my side, with my brother giving the sample. I don't really know what I expected, but was disappointed that all I got was a list of names from all over the shop, with not one sharing my surname....

Maisie,   It sounds as if you may have tested as Celtic or even Anglo-Saxon, although my money is on Celtic.  Some of the Celtic lines in the Isles are a nightmare of a puzzle to sort out as so many of them adopted the surnames of others, and in addition they were very mobile.  This accounts for the mubblie-jumblie list that you received with no surnames matching yours.  I've seen this before.  Of course I only hear about the difficult ones to sort out, and I hasten to add that I can do almost nothing to help in these instances.  I've got my hands full as it is with my own line.   Don't give up on the one down in York.  Follow up.  You may receive a great treat.  Then you'll be glad that you had your family Y-DNA tested :-)  As for further Y-DNA test upgrades - probably not worthwhile at this point unless you received a list with a lot matches with no mutations.  What is a lot?  That depends upon the size of your pocketbook.  I certainly would consider an upgrade to 32 markers, but I wouldn't go for any more than that.  That will sort out some of the 12-markers matches and leave you with a meaty fillet to chew on :-)   Good hunting,   Cliff. From: Maisie Egger <[email protected]> To: Cliff. Johnston <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Monday, October 7, 2013 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [Lanark] LANARK Digest, Vol 8, Issue 165 Cliff, How I admire your “smarts” to untangle the different levels of DNA testing!  I can talk the hind legs off a donkey, but my brain freezes at trying to unscramble the different levels of  DNA testing, though you did your best to give a clear understanding. DNA testing is really not essential to me:  there is no huge heritance among relatives in contention or the birthright of this or that human, and so on, so as I remarked, I’ll just stick with the “tree” plunking names/relatives*** on the different branches as they are found.  I subscribed to the 12-marker at the “bargain price” of $39, but should have saved my money as all I’ve got out of it so far are lists of meaningless names, not one of which shares my surname. Thanks for taking the time to explain this to such as I who does not know which end is up where DNA testing is concerned. ***HOWEVER, there is one instance where DNA would be very useful where there is a possible family connection with its roots in York, one of whose descendants is still living in southwest Scotland (a direct descendant) and then my own male relatives in Lanarkshire whose DNA could be checked to see if one is from the other, but I am too inept about following through on this, plus the expense.  I’d rather use the money to hire someone to paint the bathroom! Maisie ----------------------------------------------------------------  From: Cliff. Johnston Maisie,   We get what we pay for with Y-DNA testing, only the testing companies do not tell us that ;-)   As I have said elsewhere many times, the only company worth testing with is FTDNA.  They have the largest and best support system.  Period.   Here is my take on the different tests available (my opinion only):   12-markers test:  just whets your appetite for more testing.  About the only ones who get useful information from this test are National Geographic and the I haplogroup Johnston/es [said tongue-in-cheek as we do have a very distinctive Y-DNA signature - I can tell if you are kin by looking at the first 4 markers - the others are a bonus ;-) ]  Not worth the effort to take, IMO, for genealogical purposes.   25-markers test:  about as useless as the old saying that my grandfather used about bulls, teats and how worthless they were on a bull ;-)   32-markers test:  helpful to eliminate more distant connections and reaffirm closer connections.  A decent test, but has too many gaps.   67-markers test:  the best test to take initially as it will put you on a family branch if enough have tested in your haplogroup for branches to start showing up.   111-markers test:  we are still working out the value of this upgrade.  So far it appears to be very useful for sorting close kin, say within 2-6 generations.  If enough have this number of markers tested in your haplogroup it is very helpful.   Should you test with any other company than FTDNA, you need to be aware that the alternative-company tests do not include all of the same markers as those done by FTDNA.  This means that in order for one to compare an alternative-source company's Y-DNA results to that of FTDNA's results one will have to buy an additional make-up test from FTDNA in order to make a valid comparison.  This takes more time in addition to more money.   Good hunting,   Cliff.     From: Maisie Egger [email protected]   I subscribed to the cheapest offering for DNA testing for my side, with my brother giving the sample.  I don't really know what I expected, but was disappointed that all I got was a list of names from all over the shop, with not one sharing my surname....

Cliff, I was contacted by a woman who is the DNA coordinator, shall we say, of Ards Peninsula, Co. Antrim/Co. Down, Northern Ireland, where she says my surname Clint has its roots. She is the one who encouraged me to have a DNA test (brother’s swab) submitted to determine my roots as she was convinced that it was of an old Irish Celtic link. I think not as I believe the name, meaning hard, rocky surface, or such like, has its roots in Denmark or elsewhere in Scandinavia. The Vikings left a huge footprint in York, where a lot of archaeological excavations have been going on for years. There is a wonderful Jorvik Viking museum/center near York Cathedral. (It was my decision to go for the lowest DNA marker, by the way, though she recommended the 37 (?) one.) When I was researching my surname in past years ago, I found that the majority by this name did indeed come from York. There were a few spread around the rest of England and a handful or so in Northern Ireland. I couldn’t find any by the name in Dublin, another Viking historical area, or the rest of the Republic of Ireland. In Scotland, the name is an endangered species, few even in Southwest Scotland where I began to trace my lot in the 1700s. Much as I have no proof (as yet), I’m almost willing to bet that my great-grandfather was “seeded” by this dastardly fellow whose father was from York who seems to have sired two children that we know of, and maybe another two, sans a ring on the finger of any of the women he seemingly seduced...or maybe he didn’t. Maybe he was so full of charm, they fell for him! The so-called Celtic connection for my name is spurious, I think, and I’m hanging on to the notion that it definitely had Danish/Scandinavian/Viking roots. Does it help any that my father, his cousin and his mother (my father’s aunt), a nephew and his son, my sister, and I to some degree, all had ginger/red hair, fresh complexions (freckles!) and blue eyes. Does this bespeak a Scandinavian bloodline? One of the Lanark listers right this minute has made a trip by train from the north of England to York, Borthwick Institute, to see if she can in any way trace this Clint family that I could possibly be related to to the “parentless” great-grandfather. She is a phenomenal researcher and has done so much to help me get to the bottom of the elusive parentage. If the Kirk Session, Edinburgh, where she is hoping to go to next, does not have a record of my great-grandfather’s parentage, then I think that is the end of the line and I may as well give up the ghost...except for DNA testing. If I win the lottery...then Cliff you would have to interpret the results for me as I am as thick as a plank in this regard. Unfortunately, the Kirk Session records in Edinburgh are not online and one would require to go in person or hire someone to do research for you. Maisie ------------------------------------------------ Maisie, It sounds as if you may have tested as Celtic or even Anglo-Saxon, although my money is on Celtic. Some of the Celtic lines in the Isles are a nightmare of a puzzle to sort out as so many of them adopted the surnames of others, and in addition they were very mobile. This accounts for the mubblie-jumblie list that you received with no surnames matching yours. I've seen this before. Of course I only hear about the difficult ones to sort out, and I hasten to add that I can do almost nothing to help in these instances. I've got my hands full as it is with my own line. Don't give up on the one down in York. Follow up. You may receive a great treat. Then you'll be glad that you had your family Y-DNA tested :-) As for further Y-DNA test upgrades - probably not worthwhile at this point unless you received a list with a lot matches with no mutations. What is a lot? That depends upon the size of your pocketbook. I certainly would consider an upgrade to 32 markers, but I wouldn't go for any more than that. That will sort out some of the 12-markers matches and leave you with a meaty fillet to chew on :-) Good hunting, Cliff. From: Maisie Egger <[email protected]> To: Cliff. Johnston <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Monday, October 7, 2013 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [Lanark] LANARK Digest, Vol 8, Issue 165 Cliff, How I admire your “smarts” to untangle the different levels of DNA testing! I can talk the hind legs off a donkey, but my brain freezes at trying to unscramble the different levels of DNA testing, though you did your best to give a clear understanding. DNA testing is really not essential to me: there is no huge heritance among relatives in contention or the birthright of this or that human, and so on, so as I remarked, I’ll just stick with the “tree” plunking names/relatives*** on the different branches as they are found. I subscribed to the 12-marker at the “bargain price” of $39, but should have saved my money as all I’ve got out of it so far are lists of meaningless names, not one of which shares my surname. Thanks for taking the time to explain this to such as I who does not know which end is up where DNA testing is concerned. ***HOWEVER, there is one instance where DNA would be very useful where there is a possible family connection with its roots in York, one of whose descendants is still living in southwest Scotland (a direct descendant) and then my own male relatives in Lanarkshire whose DNA could be checked to see if one is from the other, but I am too inept about following through on this, plus the expense. I’d rather use the money to hire someone to paint the bathroom! Maisie ---------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cliff. Johnston Maisie, We get what we pay for with Y-DNA testing, only the testing companies do not tell us that ;-) As I have said elsewhere many times, the only company worth testing with is FTDNA. They have the largest and best support system. Period. Here is my take on the different tests available (my opinion only): 12-markers test: just whets your appetite for more testing. About the only ones who get useful information from this test are National Geographic and the I haplogroup Johnston/es [said tongue-in-cheek as we do have a very distinctive Y-DNA signature - I can tell if you are kin by looking at the first 4 markers - the others are a bonus ;-) ] Not worth the effort to take, IMO, for genealogical purposes. 25-markers test: about as useless as the old saying that my grandfather used about bulls, teats and how worthless they were on a bull ;-) 32-markers test: helpful to eliminate more distant connections and reaffirm closer connections. A decent test, but has too many gaps. 67-markers test: the best test to take initially as it will put you on a family branch if enough have tested in your haplogroup for branches to start showing up. 111-markers test: we are still working out the value of this upgrade. So far it appears to be very useful for sorting close kin, say within 2-6 generations. If enough have this number of markers tested in your haplogroup it is very helpful. Should you test with any other company than FTDNA, you need to be aware that the alternative-company tests do not include all of the same markers as those done by FTDNA. This means that in order for one to compare an alternative-source company's Y-DNA results to that of FTDNA's results one will have to buy an additional make-up test from FTDNA in order to make a valid comparison. This takes more time in addition to more money. Good hunting, Cliff. From: Maisie Egger [email protected] I subscribed to the cheapest offering for DNA testing for my side, with my brother giving the sample. I don't really know what I expected, but was disappointed that all I got was a list of names from all over the shop, with not one sharing my surname....