Well, Indo-Europeans passed through there, and the Neolithic got there. But it would still help to know what haplogroups are there that are not European. R1a is specifically from the Black Sea region, more or less; it extended across the steppes, and is a recognized Indo-European marker. The way Norse legend goes, it should be Asian. Any place where the Neolithic went is going to have a certain amount of less common first farmer DNA as well as common first farmer DNA. It was centered around southeastern Europe and southwestern Asia, the Black Sea region, and the Mediterranean, but it included elements from farther south, such as the Middle East. Dora From: Cliff. Johnston Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 1:10 PM To: Dora Smith Subject: Re: [Lanark] Viking red-haired roots Dora, A couple of years ago I looked at Y-DNA results for Danes in Denmark. I was amazed at the number of haplogroups present that are not European. This pretty much supported various statements made in several books that I had read. Whatever "pure" Viking lines may have been there at one time, it was a long, long time ago. Cliff. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dora Smith <[email protected]> To: Cliff. Johnston <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [Lanark] Viking red-haired roots Cliff: I’m fascinated. I knew that Denmark is by deep to dark age history part Celtic, part German, and part Norse, and the DNA is suitably mixed, but I wasn’t aware that it would be hard to find someone whose heritage goes back much beyond a century or two. What specifically are you talking about? I’m not arguing, now... much of the history of Scandinavia is fairly amazing. I want to know what you know that I didn’t find out yet. Dora From: Cliff. Johnston Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 9:36 PM To: Dora Smith ; iain.mcneill ; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] Viking red-haired roots Denmark has become a real hodge-podge of haplogroups - different peoples of different ethnicities. One would have a difficult time finding someone whose heritage goes much beyond a century or two. Cliff. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dora Smith <[email protected]> To: iain.mcneill <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [Lanark] Viking red-haired roots I didn't know you all didn't realize how deeply the Norse penetrated into British Celtic territory. I thought red hair was being wrongly attributed to the Norse. The Norse are thought of has having red hair. Now, I frankly don't see a whole lot of red hair among photos of people in Scandinavia and Denmark; in fact, they're more likely to be medium to short and have dark skin and dark hair, that for some reason today is commonly associated with people of Scotch Irish stock in the eastern United States. Otherwise they are tall and good looking by English standards and have blonde or brown hair. It is possible that those who became Vikings were some subgroup of them. If as is thought the Norse are partially descended from relatively recent invaders from the Asian steppes, they could have maintained something of a warrior class, despite the fact that allegedly most Vikings were farmers whose homeland had run short of land. Two Y DNA haplogroups are common in Scandinavia, Indo-European R1a, and I1. I1 is a paleolithic haplogroup, it would be quite something if the people who bore it had any sort of bright colored hair, though I've an idea that in eastern Europe it became reddish early. Red hair has been a Celtic stereotype since ancient times, and is also a stereotype of certain Celtic subcultures such as Wiccan families. Dora -----Original Message----- From: iain.mcneill Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 12:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] Viking red-haired roots Hi folks To add to the difficulties... The Norsemen made it from Skye as far as Dublin, as well as the Isle of Man. If they settled, they took local wives, if not, they often took local women with them back to the Norse countries. Skol Iain On 25/11/2013 06:16, Dora Smith wrote: > I think red hair was often a Celtic trait as well. > > Dora > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Maisie Egger > Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 10:25 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Lanark] Viking red-haired roots > > http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/heritage/expert-argues-vikings-carried-redhead-gene-to-scotland-1-3200177 > > ....which makes chasing possible Norse connections more than a minor > challenge as my father had carroty/ginger hair, as did his cousin; my > young > sister had the most gorgeous Titian red hair, whereas mine was a very > pretty > combination of honey, strawberry and auburn, with a perfect complexion to > go > along with the hair colourimg. All gone, gone, gone in my “senior years,” > drat! > > May father’s forebears had their roots in the Dumfries and Galloway, > Southwest Scotland, where the Vikings had an impact. > > My husband insists I have Viking blood because of my colouring and shape > of > my fine “aristocratic” nose! > > The woman who got me interested in DNA research insists that my surname > has > Irish roots, whilst I argue otherwise...so maybe I am right after all that > my surname has Danish/Scandinavian origins and not just going by the > colour > of my hair! > > At the end of the day we are all Jock Tamson’s bairns --- all John Thomson’s > children, meaning that we are all the same under the skin. > > Maisie > > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier > message. > Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] > > You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on > the > following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier > message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] > > You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on > the following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com/ ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com